In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of the
articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend a
banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is it
for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got roughly 700
SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

todd

"todd" wrote in message
. ..
In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of the
articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend a
banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is it
for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got roughly
700 SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

todd

Having done a fair amount of taping on a new house, and several remodels,
I'd suggest you get a price from guys who do it professionally. It looks
easy when they are doing it; but, like anything esle, requires some
experience. Take up the ukulele, while they are doing the job! *G*
Leif

"Leif Thorvaldson" wrote in message
...

"todd" wrote in message
. ..
In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of
the articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend
a banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is
it for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got
roughly 700 SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

todd

Having done a fair amount of taping on a new house, and several remodels,
I'd suggest you get a price from guys who do it professionally. It looks
easy when they are doing it; but, like anything esle, requires some
experience. Take up the ukulele, while they are doing the job! *G*
Leif

I meant to mention that I'm considering that at the same time. We have very
good friends who have a carpentry contracting business and have guys they
could send out (at my cost, of course). But I'm stubborn about wanting to
do things myself if I can. If it was the living room, I'd definitely send
in the pros. We'll see. By the time I'm done hanging drywall, I'll
probably be tired of the whole thing and want someone to finish it anyway.

todd

"todd" wrote in message
. ..
In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of the
articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend a
banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is it
for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got roughly
700 SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.


With the self-adhesive mesh tape I don't believe a banjo is required. It
goes on pretty easily and doesn't come up even if you're a bit heavy on the
knife. I think it's even better than the paper tape in the corners.
Difference for the amount you're working probably wouldn't make the price of
the banjo.

On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:43:20 -0500, "todd" wrote:

In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of the
articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend a
banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is it
for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got roughly 700
SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

todd



I used self adhesive mesh, found it easier overall than paper tape.
If you are inexperienced, hard to properly bed paper tape so that
bubbles don't follow you out on each successive coat. I also used
metal backed inside corner tape, once again, to make the job easier
for a guy who doesn't do this every day and doesn't like to do it in
the first place.

Frank

On Aug 6, 12:43 am, "todd" wrote:
In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of the
articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend a
banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is it
for a novice to operate?

Forward roll is easy, reverse is a bitch, although chords are a cinch
with open major tuning.

To give an idea of the scale, I've got roughly 700
SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

Lay the tape by hand. By the time you finish, you'll have
enough practice under your belt not to need a banjo. The only
taping tools you really need are a 5 gallon pail of mud an a
6" knife.

On Aug 6, 8:14 am, Frank Boettcher wrote:
On Sun, 5 Aug 2007 23:43:20 -0500, "todd" wrote:

In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of the
articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend a
banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is it
for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got roughly 700
SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.


I used self adhesive mesh, found it easier overall than paper tape.
If you are inexperienced, hard to properly bed paper tape so that
bubbles don't follow you out on each successive coat. I also used
metal backed inside corner tape, once again, to make the job easier
for a guy who doesn't do this every day and doesn't like to do it in
the first place.

I've had issues with the metal backed tape rusting and bleeding
through the paint, which might be an issue depending on the OP's
location and shop heating and cooling. There are alternatives, such
as http://www.straitflex.com/sfmedium.htm Generally, I only use the
stuff on oddball corners, and on occasion outside corners. Mesh or
paper tape is fine for most all 90 degree interior corners.

The banjo is probably overkill for what the OP needs to do, but I'm
the last one to tell someone to not buy a tool. If you haven't
read Ferguson's book on drywall and taping, you should. He also has a
forum on JLC's web site http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4

R

Father Haskell wrote:

: Lay the tape by hand. By the time you finish, you'll have
: enough practice under your belt not to need a banjo. The only
: taping tools you really need are a 5 gallon pail of mud an a
: 6" knife.

I found that a J roller was inexpensive and very helpful.

--- Chip

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 07:09:25 -0700, RicodJour
wrote:

If you haven't read Ferguson's book on drywall and taping, you
should. He also has a forum on JLC's web site

http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=4

I thoroughly agree with that. One of the things you'll find is that
generally he prefers paper tape for new work and mesh for repairs. He
says paper tape, properly mudded is stronger than the mesh which
merely "sticks" to the surface of the sheetrock.

By the way, there's only one way to get decent at taping and that's to
tape. With regard to the banjo, in the words of the immortal John
Wayne in "True Grit": too much gun.

Do the tapered joints first. Lay some mud in the ditch, cover with
tape, then run the knife (I use an 8" for this pass). Do not attempt
to get a paint ready smooth finish on this pass. The goal is just to
get a basically level (or even slightly depressed) surface. The two
main surfaces of the sheetrock outside the tapers making up the ditch
are the striking gauges for the knife which acts as a screed.

For the next layer of mud, first knock down any blemishes with the
next knife (I use a 10" for this pass), then apply some mud
essentially the same as you did for pass #1 (but a whole lot less of
it). The longer knife will help feather out the mud beyond the ditch
and the initial application.

For the third layer, repeat the above (except I use a 12" for this
pass). It will take very little additional mud to cover, and your
application should be more in line with a smoothing action than one of
applying product.


Rules for mud:

1) If you want a decent job, you will need three applications.

2) Do not attempt to declare any mudding complete with fewer than
three applications.

3) In the event of any questions regarding Rule #2, see Rule #1.

4) The amount of mud you use in passes 2 and 3 should probably total
less than the amount you used in pass 1.

Corners are a variation of the theme. I do adjacent corners one side
at a time, except for bedding the tape. The pros do them all at once.
I originally bought a cornering tool, but I didn't use it the last
couple of jobs, as I find it winds up leaving too much mud in the
corner.


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

"LRod" wrote in message
...
I thoroughly agree with that. One of the things you'll find is that
generally he prefers paper tape for new work and mesh for repairs. He
says paper tape, properly mudded is stronger than the mesh which
merely "sticks" to the surface of the sheetrock.


I'm not getting it. The mesh is held by its own stickum and the same mud
that holds the fiber tape, both above and below and in the case of mesh,
through the medium. Seems like it would act like a steel mesh in concrete.

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:22:19 GMT, "George" wrote:


"LRod" wrote in message
.. .
I thoroughly agree with that. One of the things you'll find is that
generally he prefers paper tape for new work and mesh for repairs. He
says paper tape, properly mudded is stronger than the mesh which
merely "sticks" to the surface of the sheetrock.


I'm not getting it. The mesh is held by its own stickum and the same mud
that holds the fiber tape, both above and below and in the case of mesh,
through the medium. Seems like it would act like a steel mesh in concrete.


I don't know if it is stronger or not, but I built my shop over
fifteen years ago, and have had not problems with the mesh. No cracks
or splits even around door headers, which surprised me. The point
is, if your goal is not to become proficient at drywall finishing, but
only get the job done, mesh is easier.

I'm in the initial stages of a shop expansion, and it will be mesh
again.

Frank

In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of the
articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend a
banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is it
for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got roughly
700 SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

todd

Take this for what it may be worth to you, but I've known several drywallers
well enough to help them out on jobs if they were short handed and only one
had a banjo...not that he used it, he just had it because he thought that
he'd need one when he started out, but it's faster without it.

Me, I never use one...not that I'm a great mudder, you understand, but I can
hold my own and it just seemed like more hassle than it's worth.

Just my thoughts, anyway

Mike

todd wrote:
In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of the
articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend a
banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is it
for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got roughly 700
SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

todd


No help here, just an aside.
You had me buggered mentioning a "Banjo" to tape the walls. Here in Oz a
shovel is commonly referred to as a "Banjo".
A bit of Googling soon put me right.

regards
John

"The Davenport's" wrote in message
...
In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of
the articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend
a banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is
it for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got
roughly 700 SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

todd

Take this for what it may be worth to you, but I've known several
drywallers well enough to help them out on jobs if they were short handed
and only one had a banjo...not that he used it, he just had it because he
thought that he'd need one when he started out, but it's faster without
it.


???????????? Faster without it? Can he do a whole house in less than a day
and a half? A crew of 3 using banjos can do a whole 2,000SF home in an
afternoon!!!!!!!!

Easiest way to do this without paying for a banjo is to simply lay down a
bed of drywall mud on your joints and wet your tape before putting it on the
mud. I use a bucket of water and cut it to length first, then a quick dip
in the bucket of water. Then I sumply use the knife to press the tape into
the mud. However, unless I am doing just a patch job, next time I need to
do some amount of taping (a room or more) I will be gettign a banjo. What
the pros do is messy and they hold the end of hte tape and slap about 16" of
mudded tape to the joint, hold the spot with their hand, and do another 16"
again. They keep doing this until the whole ceiling is done, then run a
wide drywall knife over the tape to smooth it out. Slick actually!

Me, I never use one...not that I'm a great mudder, you understand, but I
can hold my own and it just seemed like more hassle than it's worth.

Just my thoughts, anyway

Mike

"John B" wrote in message
...
todd wrote:
In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of
the articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend
a banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is
it for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got
roughly 700 SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

todd
No help here, just an aside.
You had me buggered mentioning a "Banjo" to tape the walls. Here in Oz a
shovel is commonly referred to as a "Banjo".
A bit of Googling soon put me right.

regards
John

Well, don't keep us in suspense. What do drywallers call what we call a
banjo?

This reminds me of an online chat I had a ways back with a guy from Oz. We
laughed about some of the language differences and the perceptions of each
country by the other's residents.

todd

todd wrote:
"John B" wrote in message
...
todd wrote:
In my ongoing effort to get my new shop functional, I've been hanging
drywall and am looking forward (or rather, not looking forward) to taping
the joints. I've done a very minimal amount of taping in the past, but
nothing approaching this scale. I'm been doing some reading and one of
the articles says that for anything but the smallest jobs, they recommend
a banjo to apply the tape. For anyone who has used one, how difficult is
it for a novice to operate? To give an idea of the scale, I've got
roughly 700 SF of walls and 500 SF of ceilings to do.

todd
No help here, just an aside.
You had me buggered mentioning a "Banjo" to tape the walls. Here in Oz a
shovel is commonly referred to as a "Banjo".
A bit of Googling soon put me right.

regards
John


G'day Todd,
Well, don't keep us in suspense. What do drywallers call what we call a
banjo?

I never found that out, but I did find out what a Drywall Banjo was and
it ain't a shovel

As for why a shovel is a Banjo in Oz, I think it has something to do
with being used with a pick (Mad Mick)

This reminds me of an online chat I had a ways back with a guy from Oz. We
laughed about some of the language differences and the perceptions of each
country by the other's residents.

Yep, it does get confusing at times, mostly quite funny. I think that
you blokes have the short end of stick though, as we have been exposed
to more of your culture than you to ours.

One thing I always smile at is when an American says they're "Rooting"
for a team or person.

regards
John

"John B" wrote in message
...
todd wrote:
This reminds me of an online chat I had a ways back with a guy from Oz.
We laughed about some of the language differences and the perceptions of
each country by the other's residents.

Yep, it does get confusing at times, mostly quite funny. I think that you
blokes have the short end of stick though, as we have been exposed to more
of your culture than you to ours.

One thing I always smile at is when an American says they're "Rooting" for
a team or person.

regards
John

Had to look that one up. I see the source of your amusement. As for being
underexposed to Aussie culture, I'm sure that's true. Most of what
Americans know about Aussies comes from Paul Hogan.

todd

On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 22:22:19 GMT, "George" wrote:


"LRod" wrote in message
.. .
I thoroughly agree with that. One of the things you'll find is that
generally he prefers paper tape for new work and mesh for repairs. He
says paper tape, properly mudded is stronger than the mesh which
merely "sticks" to the surface of the sheetrock.


I'm not getting it. The mesh is held by its own stickum and the same mud
that holds the fiber tape, both above and below and in the case of mesh,
through the medium. Seems like it would act like a steel mesh in concrete.

But the mesh tape doesn't have mud below--just the stickum. Have you
noticed how sticky the stickum actually isn't?


--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

"LRod" wrote in message
...

But the mesh tape doesn't have mud below--just the stickum. Have you
noticed how sticky the stickum actually isn't?


I always push mud through, wondering how you avoid it.

On a similar note, remember the dovetail lath in "real" plaster? Same
principle as the mesh.

George wrote:

"LRod" wrote:
But the mesh tape doesn't have mud below--just the stickum. Have you
noticed how sticky the stickum actually isn't?

I always push mud through, wondering how you avoid it.

I believe his point is that there is no mud between the mesh itself and
the wall. Thus, the mesh itself sticks to the wall fairly poorly, and
is held on mostly by the mud squeezing between the holes in the mesh and
sticking to the wall.

With paper tape the mud bonds the tape to the wall over it's entire
surface, and the next layer of mud bonds to the tape. Overall it's a
stronger bond.

Whether the difference is meaningful is another issue, but I've read
more than one book that suggests paper tape is stronger overall.

Chris

"Chris Friesen" wrote in message
...
George wrote:

"LRod" wrote:
But the mesh tape doesn't have mud below--just the stickum. Have you
noticed how sticky the stickum actually isn't?

I always push mud through, wondering how you avoid it.

I believe his point is that there is no mud between the mesh itself and
the wall. Thus, the mesh itself sticks to the wall fairly poorly, and is
held on mostly by the mud squeezing between the holes in the mesh and
sticking to the wall.

There's my problem! I've been using it over the cracks where the mud pushes
through into the gap underneath.

Take this for what it may be worth to you, but I've known several
drywallers well enough to help them out on jobs if they were short handed
and only one had a banjo...not that he used it, he just had it because he
thought that he'd need one when he started out, but it's faster without
it.


???????????? Faster without it? Can he do a whole house in less than a
day and a half? A crew of 3 using banjos can do a whole 2,000SF home in
an afternoon!!!!!!!!

Just saying what the pros told me. I will only say that the times I've
helped them, we went fast enough. Largest job I was on with them was about
3000 sq ft, give or take a square, and with a crew of 5, drywall was hung in
15 hours and the first coat of mud took just over 12 hours.

Plenty fast enough for my tastes.

Mike

"The Davenport's" wrote in message
...
Take this for what it may be worth to you, but I've known several
drywallers well enough to help them out on jobs if they were short
handed and only one had a banjo...not that he used it, he just had it
because he thought that he'd need one when he started out, but it's
faster without it.


???????????? Faster without it? Can he do a whole house in less than a
day and a half? A crew of 3 using banjos can do a whole 2,000SF home in
an afternoon!!!!!!!!

Just saying what the pros told me. I will only say that the times I've
helped them, we went fast enough. Largest job I was on with them was about
3000 sq ft, give or take a square, and with a crew of 5, drywall was hung
in 15 hours and the first coat of mud took just over 12 hours.


3,000 SF living space or 3,000 SF of drywall? The 2 of us hang about 2,000
SF living space, 10,000 SF of drywall, with several popups and 2-3 cathedral
ceilings in 3 days. First coat of mud with 3 finishers in a morning or
afternoon.

Plenty fast enough for my tastes.

Mike

Take this for what it may be worth to you, but I've known several
drywallers well enough to help them out on jobs if they were short
handed and only one had a banjo...not that he used it, he just had it
because he thought that he'd need one when he started out, but it's
faster without it.


???????????? Faster without it? Can he do a whole house in less than a
day and a half? A crew of 3 using banjos can do a whole 2,000SF home in
an afternoon!!!!!!!!

Just saying what the pros told me. I will only say that the times I've
helped them, we went fast enough. Largest job I was on with them was
about 3000 sq ft, give or take a square, and with a crew of 5, drywall
was hung in 15 hours and the first coat of mud took just over 12 hours.


3,000 SF living space or 3,000 SF of drywall? The 2 of us hang about
2,000 SF living space, 10,000 SF of drywall, with several popups and 2-3
cathedral ceilings in 3 days. First coat of mud with 3 finishers in a
morning or afternoon.

Plenty fast enough for my tastes.

Mike

sigh

I didn't intend for this to be a ****ing match...someone asked for
input/opinions...I gave mine. You don't agree. I'll live.

I'm very happy for you that you're faster at it than I am...lots of people
are...I'm OK with that.

Mike

On Aug 6, 11:57 pm, "Mike Dobony" wrote:

Easiest way to do this without paying for a banjo is to simply lay down a
bed of drywall mud on your joints and wet your tape before putting it on the
mud.

That's the trick. Wet tape will adhere without bubbles much easier
than will dry tape. Try it once and you'll never go back.

"Cam in Toronto" wrote in message

That's the trick. Wet tape will adhere without bubbles much easier
than will dry tape. Try it once and you'll never go back.

The web between my index and middle finger of my left hand twinged when you
said that.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Aug 6, 9:13 am, "Chip Buchholtz" wrote:
Father Haskell wrote:

: Lay the tape by hand. By the time you finish, you'll have
: enough practice under your belt not to need a banjo. The only
: taping tools you really need are a 5 gallon pail of mud an a
: 6" knife.

I found that a J roller was inexpensive and very helpful.

--- Chip

what on earth do you use a J roller for in taping drywall?

I found that a J roller was inexpensive and very helpful.

--- Chip

what on earth do you use a J roller for in taping drywall?

I'm glad you asked...I was afraid to