IF YOU COULD use any joinery you wanted for your next project, rabbets,
dados, through dovetails, half blind dovetails, sliding dovetails,
mortise and tenon, through mortise and tenon, tenoned triple miter
joints, . . . AND make perfect joints - without hours of precise
layouts, without an hour of practice joints and test cuts - and almost
without any tool set up(s). And let’s say that NONE of the joinery
will show - unless you want it to.

HOW would THAT change what your next piece would be and how it would be
put together?

Coming at it from another direction - because dovetail jigs make it
relatively easy to dovetail a set of drawers or join the sides of a
cabinet to its top and bottom with through or half blind dovetails - do
you find you use dovetail joinery more often?

Is the only thing that keeps you from using mortise and tenon joints, or
loose tenon mortise and tenon joints, the time and skill it takes to
make them by hand, or the price tag and the learning curve of the jigs
or machines that facilitate making them?

I ask this question because, as a result of getting and using the
Festool DOMINO, how I approach designing a project has changed
significantly. And it is also changing the projects I’m considering
doing.

Here’s an example of how a tool can change your whole approach to
things.

To avoid starting my first “house furniture” project(s), I’m working on
something to hide the garbage can and recycling baskets. The quick and
dirty method would be to build it like building a redwood fence - 4x4
posts, 2x4 upper and lower rail, with fence boards between them,
captured between 1x1 strips - all held together with nails. This
requires the upper and lower 2x4 rails to be used with the wide
dimension paralleling the ground in order to leave room for the fence
boards AND the 1x1 strips on either side of the fence boards.

But the rails would support more weight and be less apt to sag if they
were oriented with their narrower face horizontal. However, that
wouldn’t leave room for the 1x1s. To capture the fence boards, I could
cut dados in the rails for the ends of the fence boards to fit into -
but the lower dado would trap water when it rains - and eventually lead
to rot.

SO - What If - the fence boards were held between the upper and lower
rail - with loose tenons - three per board? At the top of each fence
board, the center mortise would be tight and glued, the outer mortises
wider than the loose tenon and glued only to the rail, allowing for wood
movement while discouraging cupping. On the lower rail, the loose
tenons would fit tight in the top of the lower rail and be glued, the
corresponding mortises in the bottom of the fence board would be glued
only In the middle, the outer mortises being wider to allow for wood
movement.

To firm things up a bit, more loose tenon mortise and tenons on the
sides of the two “post end” fence boards to join them to the post. This
would help prevent wracking and firm up the corners.

For the gate, why not miter the corners of the frame - and put two loose
tenons in each mitered joint? Like the “fence sections” fill the field
with fence boards using the same loose tenon method as the fence
sections.

If the fence boards were straight grained CON HEART redwood, with a coat
or two of BLO to pop the grain, this thing would look really nice.

Wait a minute - 3 mortises for each end of maybe 20 fence boards, and
corresponding mortises in the rails - that alone would be 240 mortises
to cut. And that’s not including the mortises for the rails to post
joints or the mitered corners for the gate. And half, or better, of
those mortises will be in end grain, 120 being on the ends of 6 foot
fence boards. Just laying out the mortises will take forever, to say
nothing of actually cutting them all.

Never mind.

UNLESS - there were a way to cut all those mortises with the part laying
flat - and with only one layout line for every third mortise - the
center mortise for each fence board. The rail to post mortises and the
mitered corners won’t need ANY layout lines at all. AND What If the
mortises could be cut as fast as cutting a biscuit slot?

This sounds like a job for DOMINO MAN! With his trusty metric ruler, a
pair of Festool Green and gray SYSTAINERS stacked neatly on, and secured
to, his wheeled sidekick “Dust Extractor” he’s ready to tackle this
daunting task and have the job done in an hour - or two (excluding glue
up and clamping time - after all, he is only human. albeit an Empowered
one).

Maybe I should design a super hero suit for this woodworking super
hero. Hmmmmm - Norms already got plaid, and Roy has the funny hat and
suspenders copyrighted. Maybe a gray shop frock, a pocket protector
with 0.5mm mechanical pencil and a place for the 100 mm stainless steel
metric mini ruler - and safety glasses - with Festool Green frames - a
hint of a German accent perhaps. . .

But I digress - as usual.

Back to my original question - How would your designs and the projects
you select change if you had a tool which allowed you to do The Hard
Part without having to do a lot of layout out, tool set up, test cuts,
etc.?

charlie b

ps - If you think the Flip and Slide and Rotate and Rearrange Game of
stock selection and orientation is fun for a pair of cabinet doors - try
it with 5 to 7 boards - six feet long - and do it three times.

"charlieb" wrote in message

This sounds like a job for DOMINO MAN!

BTW ... picked up new woodworking mags last night for the first time in a
couple of months and all were full of multiple ad's for "the DOMINO".

It's certainly appears to be a foregone conclusion that it will have a
revolutionary impact for making furniture in the home shoppe.

AAMOF, there will soon be a new furniture "period" classification: "The
Early 21st Century Domino Period".



--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

charlieb wrote:

snip

| This sounds like a job for DOMINO MAN! With his trusty metric
| ruler, a pair of Festool Green and gray SYSTAINERS stacked neatly
| on, and secured to, his wheeled sidekick "Dust Extractor" he's
| ready to tackle this daunting task and have the job done in an hour
| - or two (excluding glue up and clamping time - after all, he is
| only human. albeit an Empowered one).

snip

Good grief! This can only be an imposter.

What have you done with the real charlieb who so admired the elegance
of complex antique Chinese joinery and on-the-fly decision-making of
neandertool artists?

Green and grey systainers? Next we'll be hearing about stackable IKEA
tooltainers!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

I don't think the design would change so much as the method of attaching the
pieces together.
Like you I have entered the Domino Zone.

I'm still enjoying the "New Car Smell" the combination of the Domino and
CT22 emit. It really smells like a new car, at least an Accord.

I have built quite a few fences in my days, do you have a drawing of the one
you described? Of course you do. Would you post it? ;~) I'd like to see
how that 1x1 comes in. Yeah I have a drawing of how I build them also.

A Good One Morris. I was thinking along similar lines.

Charley


"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
...
charlieb wrote:

snip

| This sounds like a job for DOMINO MAN! With his trusty metric
| ruler, a pair of Festool Green and gray SYSTAINERS stacked neatly
| on, and secured to, his wheeled sidekick "Dust Extractor" he's
| ready to tackle this daunting task and have the job done in an hour
| - or two (excluding glue up and clamping time - after all, he is
| only human. albeit an Empowered one).

snip

Good grief! This can only be an imposter.

What have you done with the real charlieb who so admired the elegance
of complex antique Chinese joinery and on-the-fly decision-making of
neandertool artists?

Green and grey systainers? Next we'll be hearing about stackable IKEA
tooltainers!

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:31:14 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

It's certainly appears to be a foregone conclusion that it will have a
revolutionary impact for making furniture in the home shoppe.

It doesn't really do anything new for the home shop, it just makes an
already routine task easier. There's nothing too revolutionary about
that IMO.

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:31:14 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

It's certainly appears to be a foregone conclusion that it will have a
revolutionary impact for making furniture in the home shoppe.

It doesn't really do anything new for the home shop, it just makes an
already routine task easier. There's nothing too revolutionary about
that IMO.


So you routinely use loose tennons?

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:31:14 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

It's certainly appears to be a foregone conclusion that it will have a
revolutionary impact for making furniture in the home shoppe.

It doesn't really do anything new for the home shop, it just makes an
already routine task easier. There's nothing too revolutionary about
that IMO.

You're either one helluva woodworker, or you haven't done much compound
angled M&T joinery.

If it's the former, where can we see some of your work?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:31:14 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

It's certainly appears to be a foregone conclusion that it will have a
revolutionary impact for making furniture in the home shoppe.

It doesn't really do anything new for the home shop, it just makes an
already routine task easier. There's nothing too revolutionary about
that IMO.

You're either one helluva woodworker, or you haven't done much compound
angled M&T joinery.

If it's the former, where can we see some of your work?


He is apparently the type of bait that draws me. I cannot help but respond
to the this troll as much as I resist.

Sun, Jun 10, 2007, 7:09am (EDT-3) (charlieb)
calls for fairey tales with:
IF YOU COULD use any joinery you wanted for your next project, snip

Well, as long as we're talking fairey tales here - IF I could use
any type of joinery I wanted for my next project, THAT would assume that
I would also have the space to work in. Accordingly, the joinery would
be welding, and the project would be my long delayed vehicle project.
BUT, seeing as I do NOT have the space at this time, it ain't happening,
yet.

It will have a wood dash when it does happen - probably plywood,
stained. The engine compartment and trunk interior will probably be
painted yellow.



JOAT
If a man does his best, what else is there?
- General George S. Patton

Let's get redy to RUMBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Go get him swingman.


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:31:14 -0500, "Swingman" wrote:

It's certainly appears to be a foregone conclusion that it will have a
revolutionary impact for making furniture in the home shoppe.

It doesn't really do anything new for the home shop, it just makes an
already routine task easier. There's nothing too revolutionary about
that IMO.

You're either one helluva woodworker, or you haven't done much compound
angled M&T joinery.

If it's the former, where can we see some of your work?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Morris Dovey wrote:


Good grief! This can only be an imposter.

What have you done with the real charlieb who so admired the elegance
of complex antique Chinese joinery and on-the-fly decision-making of
neandertool artists?

Hey, if they had this tool I'm sure chinese furniture makers would
have
used it - and probably in ways we can't imagine. Triple mitered
corners
- with integral mortise and tenons is a very common chinese joint.
The DOMINO brings triple mitered corners into my joinery choices
list.

And the DOMINO is a handtool - though "tailed" - and can be used when
"designing on the fly" since loose tenon joinery self aligns parts
and
allows you to measure directly from what I've got at each point along
the way. In this "enclosure" project, I had to have the upper and
lower
rails joined to the end posts in order to find the exact height of
the
"fence boards" that must fit between them.

I have built quite a few fences in my days, do you have a drawing of the one
you described? Of course you do. Would you post it? ;~) I'd like to see
how that 1x1 comes in. Yeah I have a drawing of how I build them also.

Posted two images to a.b.p.w.

Being able to calculate offsets rather than having to measure them
sure is handy.

======================================

Brian Henderson wrote:

It doesn't really do anything new for the home shop, it just makes an
already routine task easier. There's nothing too revolutionary about
that IMO.

Having cut mortise and tenon joints with handtools and having done
a fair amount of loose tenon mortise and tenon joints with a router
and jig, dedicated chisel and bit mortiser and a horizontal boring/
mortiser with XYZ table - "it just makes an already routine task
easier" is grossly understating what this thing does. Would you
even consider a project with well over 200 mortises to cut, with
half of them in end grain - on parts 6 feet long?

What the DOMINO contributes to your options is the ability to
use loose tenon joints - in four different sizes - with almost
no grunt work.

charlie b

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:51:27 -0700, charlieb
wrote:

What the DOMINO contributes to your options is the ability to
use loose tenon joints - in four different sizes - with almost
no grunt work.

charlie b
I'm inspired sufficiently that I will wear my Festool tee shirt today.

"ROY!" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:51:27 -0700, charlieb

I'm inspired sufficiently that I will wear my Festool tee shirt today.


Oh! You have a Festool T-shirt???

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:42:34 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"ROY!" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:51:27 -0700, charlieb

I'm inspired sufficiently that I will wear my Festool tee shirt today.


Oh! You have a Festool T-shirt???

Yep, and I got it when I purchased a barbrcue grill during 'Vendor
Days' at my local hardware/tool store. I got squat when I bought the
Domino. Go figure.

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:31:57 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

So you routinely use loose tennons?

Yup. Easy to do with a router table, imagine what you could do with a
multi-router.

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:44:55 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

He is apparently the type of bait that draws me. I cannot help but respond
to the this troll as much as I resist.

There is no bait, it's just an opinion. It's really funny how every
piece of new equipment out there draws out the fanatical early
adopters who want to use it, not because it's better, but because it's
new.

Just being new doesn't make it good. Sure, the Domino might make a
somewhat tedious task easier but it doesn't mean that it's the
greatest thing since sliced bread.

"ROY!" wrote in message

Oh! You have a Festool T-shirt???

Yep, and I got it when I purchased a barbrcue grill during 'Vendor
Days' at my local hardware/tool store. I got squat when I bought the
Domino. Go figure.

Makes sense ... if you swallowed the Domino lure, you're already hooked and
all they have to do is reel you in whenever they feel the need to shore up
the bottom line.

Hell, they're so slick/insidious that they have guys who actually bring
Domino's to your house in social situations so you can fondle them, and guys
who spend all day doing nothing but coming up with ways to use the Domino,
then writing about it.

Beware ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/1/07
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:31:57 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

So you routinely use loose tennons?

Yup. Easy to do with a router table, imagine what you could do with a
multi-router.


Riiiiiight

"Brian Henderson" wrote in message
news:

Sure, the Domino might make a
somewhat tedious task easier but it doesn't mean that it's the
greatest thing since sliced bread.


Yes it does.

Would having a vacuum pump and vacuum bag to make veneering possible
without the need for a bunch of clamps or a veneer press change the
types of things on your Projects List?

If you could laser cut veneer for a marquetry design, say from a scanned
design or one you came up with using CAD, rather than having to saw
things
out, would marquetry become part of some of your future projects?

charlie b

charlieb wrote:
Would having a vacuum pump and vacuum bag to make veneering possible
without the need for a bunch of clamps or a veneer press change the
types of things on your Projects List?

If you could laser cut veneer for a marquetry design, say from a scanned
design or one you came up with using CAD, rather than having to saw
things
out, would marquetry become part of some of your future projects?

charlie b


Yes. It would even influence the design of a couple of current projects.

Bill


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