The more I explore the "built ins" in the Festool Domino
the more I come to appreciate its built in features.

THIS IS NOT
- a biscuit joiner
- just a slot mortiser with the ease of a bicsuit joiner

IT IS
- part of a System, and a well thought out System
at that
- a VERY versatile tool for making mortises for
loose tenon joinery

I've been focusing on the Fence to Mortise Centerline
"presets" on the DOMINO. After heading off in the
wrong direction because I was thinking in terms of how
a biscuit joiner is used, I finally "saw" how the
DOMINO is intended to be used.

No if you've done Loose Tenon joinery before, either
handcut, chisel and bit mortiser or router and jig,
you know that laying out the mortise is VERY important,
as is the use of The Reference Face and Reference End
of the part to be mortised.

Now if you use the wrong Reference Edge for the second
end of the part you can get this

Top
+------------------------+
| |
+--+ |
Left | | +--+ right
|--+ | |
| +--+
| |
+------------------------+
Bottom

And if you use the wrong Reference Face for the second
endof the part you can get this

Left End Right End
+--------------+ +--------------+
| +-----+ | | |
| +-----+ | | +-----+ |
| | | +-----+ |
+--------------+ +--------------+

AND - if you're like me (or am I the Only One?) you can
make BOTH mistakes.

Well the DOMINO's symetric Left/Right retractable Stop
Pins solves one of those problems. Use the Left Stop
Pin to reference the mortise on the "left end" and the
Right Stop Pin to reference the mortise on the "right
end" and Potential Problem One is solved.

It's for Potential Problem Two that I've found the DOMINO's
"almost idiot proof" solution. And in the process I
also discovered their "built in REVEAL" capability.

So - here are two more web pages I've put up that
hopefully will explain and illustrate the power of
the DOMINO's built in presets for FENCE TO MORTISE
CENTERLINE.

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/DOMINO/DOMINO_3.html

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/D...O_Reveals.html

Sure wish someone would do a user's manual for the
DOMINO - working out the use of its built in features,
while interesting, is time consuming and headache
creating. Imagine if it came with a Users Manual like
the Leigh Dovetail Jig.

The DOMINO is a VERY versatile tool that can produce
a HUGE range of Loose Tenon mortise and tenon joints.
But right now you really have to dig to find all the
gems built into this thing.

Hope this stuff makes it a little easier for the next
guy, or helps anyone thinking about getting a DOMINO
with their decision to buy - or not.

As always, comments, suggestions, constructive
criticism will be greatly appreciated.

charlie b

charlieb wrote:

As always, comments, suggestions, constructive
criticism will be greatly appreciated.

charlie b

Comments? Yeah... thanks for convincing me this is a must-have. Now just
hope my wife doesn't find out where you live....

charlieb wrote:
The more I explore the "built ins" in the Festool Domino
the more I come to appreciate its built in features.

THIS IS NOT
- a biscuit joiner
- just a slot mortiser with the ease of a bicsuit joiner

IT IS
- part of a System, and a well thought out System
at that
- a VERY versatile tool for making mortises for
loose tenon joinery

Okay, I buy the fact that they've done useful things with the
presets...but there's nothing stopping a company from doing similar
things with a biscuit joiner. Also, if the Domino is a "system" then so
is a biscuit joiner or a dowelling jig.

Sure, the Domino will give a stronger joint due to the larger tennon,
but to me it's an evolutionary product rather than a revolutionary one.

I'm not saying it isn't useful, but fundamentally it is nothing more
than a particularly well-thought-out portable slot mortiser.

Chris

On Apr 27, 2:14 pm, Chris Friesen wrote:

I'm not saying it isn't useful, but fundamentally it is nothing more
than a particularly well-thought-out portable slot mortiser.

Chris

That's how I see it...still want one...

Chris Friesen wrote:


Okay, I buy the fact that they've done useful things with the
presets...but there's nothing stopping a company from doing similar
things with a biscuit joiner.

Beg to differ with you. Biscuits accurately postion on
one axis - they've got slop along their slot's length
AND the bottom of the mortise is an arc. The loose tenon
mortise fixes the postion of the part on two axis - with
some slop if you choose to use that option.

So they could use the DOMINO fence to mortise centerline
presets idea AND the retractable stop pins for postioning
the center of the biscuit slot - but yuo're still playing
with a biscuit in an arced slot - one axis positioning only

Also, if the Domino is a "system" then so
is a biscuit joiner or a dowelling jig.

By "system" I mean a tool that fits in with a set of
tools made for a "system" of furniture making. Festool
made a "system" of tools that work with each other for
making funriture using a "system" ie The 32mm System.

No other tool manufacturer that I know of (at least
not that a "hobbiest" can afford) makes guides, work
tables, clamping devices, plunge saws, plunge routers,
hole drilling jigs, cordless drills and something like
the DOMINO - that are DESIGNED to work together - with
at most TWO power cords - one on the Dust Extractor
(vacuum cleaner) and one that plugs into the end of
EVERY non-cordless Festool power tool.(if you haven't
created a Gordian Knot with your power cords - one for
the saw, one for the router, one for the sander, one
maybe for a hand drill . . . just Festools One Power
Cord to ALL power tools "system" can't really be
appreciated.

Sure - you can adapt tools to work together as part of
a "system". Festool has, and no doubt will continue to
add to, a "system".

Sure, the Domino will give a stronger joint due to the larger tennon,
but to me it's an evolutionary product rather than a revolutionary one.

In one way I have to agree. There is very little new
"under the sun". I don't think there's much "creativity"
(making something out of nothing) - it's almost all
"synthesis" (combining existing things in a way they
have not been combined ever before) - what you might
call "evolutionary"

But - if something makes it possible to do something
you weren't doing before - or it was too much of a
hassle to do -
AND
- sginificantly changes HOW you do something
THEN
I consider that revolutionary.

The circular saw was revolutionary in terms of its impact
on woodworking, as was the bandsaw and the handheld router.
Those were almost quantum leaps in woodworking. The biscuit
joiner - well maybe.

For furniture size mortise and tenon joints (as opposed
to timber framing or boat building) the DOMINO gives
you a boatload of mortise options, minimal "set up" time,
easy as pie mortise cutting AND all in 1.25 cubic feet/
1 square foot of space for the tool, ALL its accessories
AND ALL the supplies to go with it (11 1/2" tall, 15 1/2"
wide - that's TWO stacked Systainers).

Got a chisel and bit mortiser? How much space does it need?
Would you carry it to a job site? Hell, would you pick it up at
all if you didn't have to?

Got the Leight FMT mortising jig - AND the router to go
with it? How big is just the box you probably made to
put all its accessories in? How much space does the jig
and router take up? Would you take everyting you need
for it to a job site? If you did, do you think everything
would make it back to your shop.

I'm not saying it isn't useful, but fundamentally it is
nothing more than a particularly well-thought-out portable
slot mortiser.

Yup - and a Formula One "car" is funadametally nothing
more than a particularly nice looking, fast, fun to
drive Yugo - without the corresponding price increase.
You can substitute the BMW Z3, Porsche Boxster or
Countach for "Formula One".

I've got a 200+ pound General International 75-0750M
chisel and bit mortiser sitting on the cabinet I
made to hold it off the floor- the cabinet being on
wheels. It got a lot of use when I was buidling
DAS BENCH and infrequent use since then - it doesn't
do mortises in end grain. It cost about $800 and
there's another $50 in wood for the cabinet and
and another $25 for the wheels for the base.

I HAD the TREND M&T Jig which was pushing $300
for the jig, the router guides, the router and
the router bits. About a third the price of the
DOMINO full package - or the Leigh FMT. Add the
plunge router and you're still at half the price
of either the DOMINO or the Leigh FMT. BUT - while
it was easier and quicker than handcutting mortises,
it was somewhat of a hassle to use and not very
"idiot proof" (I'm the poster child of idiots
- at times).

The Leigh FMT - well cutting mortises in the end
grain of a part longer than say 40" gets you working
with it - on a ladder. I've fallen off a ladder
on a "few" occasions. The idea of falling off a
ladder - while holding a router spinning an exposed
bit at 28,000 rpms scares the crap out of me. Were
the jig itself to land on me AFTER I landed on the
ground/floor and was already bleeding due to contact
between skin and maybe tendons as well as bone(s)
and a sharp piece or two of spinning carbide . . .

At 7 pounds - a falling DOMINO might cause a bruise
or a bump - no blood loss since the sharp spinning
carbide would have retracted into the tool.

The DOMINO is going to significantly change how
I make things. To me at least, it is revolutionary.
Your mileage may vary.

charlie b

"charlieb" wrote in message
...
Chris Friesen wrote:

No other tool manufacturer that I know of (at least
not that a "hobbiest" can afford) makes guides, work
tables, clamping devices, plunge saws, plunge routers,
hole drilling jigs, cordless drills and something like
the DOMINO - that are DESIGNED to work together - with
at most TWO power cords - one on the Dust Extractor
(vacuum cleaner) and one that plugs into the end of
EVERY non-cordless Festool power tool.(if you haven't
created a Gordian Knot with your power cords - one for
the saw, one for the router, one for the sander, one
maybe for a hand drill . . . just Festools One Power
Cord to ALL power tools "system" can't really be
appreciated.

Back in the 70's maybe early 80's B&D had the detachable power coards that
would interchange with other B&D tools. Apparently that idea did not go
over very good. Perhaps it was the design but I personally disliked the
concept. Perhaps its was a good idea at the wrong time. Oddly I like the
idea of the Festools having seperate cords. I'll bet the Festool has a
better design in that reguard.

On Apr 28, 10:47 am, "Leon" wrote:
"charlieb" wrote in message

...

Chris Friesen wrote:
No other tool manufacturer that I know of (at least
not that a "hobbiest" can afford) makes guides, work
tables, clamping devices, plunge saws, plunge routers,
hole drilling jigs, cordless drills and something like
the DOMINO - that are DESIGNED to work together - with
at most TWO power cords - one on the Dust Extractor
(vacuum cleaner) and one that plugs into the end of
EVERY non-cordless Festool power tool.(if you haven't
created a Gordian Knot with your power cords - one for
the saw, one for the router, one for the sander, one
maybe for a hand drill . . . just Festools One Power
Cord to ALL power tools "system" can't really be
appreciated.

Back in the 70's maybe early 80's B&D had the detachable power coards that
would interchange with other B&D tools. Apparently that idea did not go
over very good. Perhaps it was the design but I personally disliked the
concept. Perhaps its was a good idea at the wrong time. Oddly I like the
idea of the Festools having seperate cords. I'll bet the Festool has a
better design in that reguard.

I have a few Milwaukee tools with that feature. Never did figure out
what the point of it was. Never had a problem with them either.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
ups.com...

I have a few Milwaukee tools with that feature. Never did figure out
what the point of it was. Never had a problem with them either.


I see the advantage if you are going back and forth between tools and only
have a single ended extension cord. It is easier to unplug the tool at the
tool rather than pulling up the cord to get to the end at the extension
cord.
Do you also remember the B&D tools that had the 6" cords? LOL

Leon wrote:

Back in the 70's maybe early 80's B&D had the detachable power coards that
would interchange with other B&D tools. Apparently that idea did not go
over very good. Perhaps it was the design but I personally disliked the
concept. Perhaps its was a good idea at the wrong time. Oddly I like the
idea of the Festools having seperate cords. I'll bet the Festool has a
better design in that reguard.

I still have a B&D hedge trimmer from that period. B&D basically
just put a male plug on the trimmer - no locking mechanism - just
friction to hold the extension cord on it. A real PITA cause the
cord would pull off the trimmer all the time.

Festool solved that problem with a twist lock set up. Plug in the
cord, twist the plug and it locks in. You can swing the tool around
by the cord and they WILL NOT come apart. Bosch has something
similar - at least on one of their circular saws - and they added
an LED to the tool end of the power cord so you know if the cord
is plugged in. THAT is something Festool overlooked, or didn't
think was important enough to include in their power cord design.

charlie b

Leon wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote in message
ups.com...

I have a few Milwaukee tools with that feature. Never did figure out
what the point of it was. Never had a problem with them either.


I see the advantage if you are going back and forth between tools and only
have a single ended extension cord. It is easier to unplug the tool at the
tool rather than pulling up the cord to get to the end at the extension
cord.

Think Carpenter / Job Site.

You're up in the attic walking on the ceiling joists and you've got
your circular saw, SawzAll (bayonet saw) and maybe a HoleHog
(right angle drill) with a paddle bit in it. Oh - and you've got
the
plastic bucket you carried them in - and ONE cord with you, rather
than THREE.

Now remember how power cords somehow mysteriously ALWAYS
tie themselves into the 21st Century version of the Gordian Knot.
Do YOU want to untie it - while balancing on ceiling joists?

Went through exactly that helping a neighbor with his MAJOR
addition/ remodel (New master bedroom off one side of the
existing house, bumped out the kitchen off the back wall and
expanded the living room off another side wall - while keeping
the existing roof. Working in three different new "attics"
was "fun" - NOT!)

charlie b

ps When a neighbor asks if you'd give him a hand with a
"short beam" - ask for ALL the dimensions before
you answer. "It's ONLY an 8 footer" doesn't tell
you that it's a paralam which is 8 feet - of 6" x 14.
Just a tad heavier than a 4x6 or 4x8. Did I mention
that it needed to be up in an existing attic - with a
28" x 28" attic access opening - during the summer?

"charlieb" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:


Think Carpenter / Job Site.

You're up in the attic walking on the ceiling joists and you've got
your circular saw, SawzAll (bayonet saw) and maybe a HoleHog
(right angle drill) with a paddle bit in it. Oh - and you've got
the
plastic bucket you carried them in - and ONE cord with you, rather
than THREE.

Oh heck lets not even go there.. I have a hard enough time at the work
bench and not unplugging the wrong tool if there are 3 tools and 2 extension
cords. And how often when changing tools do I grab the cord and extension,
seperate them, and throw the extension cord back on the ground? Too many
times. ;~)

"charlieb" wrote in message
...

I still have a B&D hedge trimmer from that period. B&D basically
just put a male plug on the trimmer - no locking mechanism - just
friction to hold the extension cord on it. A real PITA cause the
cord would pull off the trimmer all the time.

All of the "woodworking" B&D power tools that I saw and the drill that I
owned had a lock built in to the handle. 2 little tabs on opposite sides of
the handle that turned about 30 degrees to lock or unlock. I will say that
the fit was, ummm, imperfect and was a real PIA to get the lock to
lock unless every thing was aligned perfectly.

charlieb wrote in
:


I still have a B&D hedge trimmer from that period. B&D basically
just put a male plug on the trimmer - no locking mechanism - just
friction to hold the extension cord on it. A real PITA cause the
cord would pull off the trimmer all the time.

snip
charlie b


I have one of their leaf vac/blowers from last year, and they use the same
system. There's a swing-down holding latch, though it's not perfect.

Patriarch

Leon wrote:

Back in the 70's maybe early 80's B&D had the detachable power coards that
would interchange with other B&D tools. Apparently that idea did not go
over very good. Perhaps it was the design but I personally disliked the
concept. Perhaps its was a good idea at the wrong time.

Nah. I still have one of those old B&D 3/8" drills around somewhere.
Problem is that the tool end of the cord is proprietary. If it was made
for a generic power cord it might have been more useful. But it has a
very short cord, so you almost always need an extension anyway, If you
could plug the extension right into the tool (and lock it there somehow)
it would have been far better.

"Doug Payne" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:

Back in the 70's maybe early 80's B&D had the detachable power coards
that would interchange with other B&D tools. Apparently that idea did
not go over very good. Perhaps it was the design but I personally
disliked the concept. Perhaps its was a good idea at the wrong time.

Nah. I still have one of those old B&D 3/8" drills around somewhere.
Problem is that the tool end of the cord is proprietary. If it was made
for a generic power cord it might have been more useful. But it has a very
short cord, so you almost always need an extension anyway, If you could
plug the extension right into the tool (and lock it there somehow) it
would have been far better.

Yes it was proprietary, but would interchange with other B&D tools with the
same set up. I had the drill and IIRC the sander and could use the cord on
either tool.

So the farthest that the Domino can offset the center of the mortise from the
face of the piece is only 20mm? That seems like a rather small range.

Suppose you have 1.5" material and want to use double tenons, as shown below.

---1.5"-----
+------------+
| |
| +-+ +-+ |
| +-+ +-+ |
| +-+ +-+ |
| +-+ +-+ |
| |
+------------+

The Domino apparently would not be able to cut both mortises referenced off
the same face, because one of them would be more than 20mm from that face. Is
the Domino precise enough that you could cut one mortise referenced off one
face and one off the other and still get it to fit?

Even worse, suppose you want a reveal between the two pieces you are joining?
How could you possibly get both sets of double mortises to align when you
can't do all the work off of one face?

Or suppose you're building a table with 2" square legs and a 1" thick apron
that you want to center on the legs. Even with single tenons it would be
impossible to place an 8mm tenon in the center of the apron piece (the ideal
size and placement if you use the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 rule). You would wind up with
an undesirably thin mortise wall that would weaken the joint.

I could come up with other examples, but I think you get the idea.

Is it really this limited or am I misinterpreting what I've read?

On Apr 28, 10:54 am, Robatoy wrote:

I have a few Milwaukee tools with that [detachable power cords]. Never did figure out
what the point of it was. Never had a problem with them either.

On job sites, power cords get beat up or cut pretty often. With the
detachable cord, you can (safely) replace it quickly. I like the fact
that they have a 25' cord as an option as well.