All

Any idea what type of wood is used in the hub of a wood spoked wagon
wheel? Can you tell by looking or feeling?

The piece has the spokes inserted into it. The piece is a "spacer"
between the metal hub or spacer that rotates on the axle and the hub/
flange that attaches the spokes to the flange. The piece is round with
rectangular holes to accept the spokes. It is about 8" long and maybe
5" in diameter. It tapers some to each end.

And finally what is the name of the tool that drills "square holes" on
wood. I think it is called a mortise drill. Am I right?

Thanks
Bob AZ

"Bob AZ" wrote in message
oups.com...
All

Any idea what type of wood is used in the hub of a wood spoked wagon
wheel? Can you tell by looking or feeling?

The piece has the spokes inserted into it. The piece is a "spacer"
between the metal hub or spacer that rotates on the axle and the hub/
flange that attaches the spokes to the flange. The piece is round with
rectangular holes to accept the spokes. It is about 8" long and maybe
5" in diameter. It tapers some to each end.

And finally what is the name of the tool that drills "square holes" on
wood. I think it is called a mortise drill. Am I right?


Elm was often used due to it's twisted grain...didn't split.

Re the mortises, they could have either been drilled and chiseled square to
simply chopped square with a mortising chisels. In more modern wheels a
hollow chisels mortiser could be used.

John

"Bob AZ" wrote in message

Any idea what type of wood is used in the hub of a wood spoked wagon
wheel? Can you tell by looking or feeling?

American elm.

And finally what is the name of the tool that drills "square holes" on
wood. I think it is called a mortise drill. Am I right?

"Hollow chisel mortiser". Combination of chisel and bit. Bit rides inside
the four sided chisel and removes most of the wood while the chisel, with
downward pressure of the tool/machine, squares the corner of the round hole,
in on pass.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/20/07

On Apr 4, 4:55?pm, "Swingman" wrote:
"Bob AZ" wrote in message
Any idea what type of wood is used in the hub of a wood spoked wagon
wheel? Can you tell by looking or feeling?

American elm.

All

Thanks for the prompt replies.

And pray tell where does one get some "American Elm".? In a 8" round
by 16" size? I would be afraid to ask where I live in the AZ desert.

Will look online this evening.

Bob AZ

And pray tell where does one get some "American Elm".? In a 8" round
by 16" size? I would be afraid to ask where I live in the AZ desert.

Good luck - most American elms were wiped out by Dutch elm disease by
the 1970's. There are still a few around, but many of the large
living ones are the ones that are valuable enough to be kept alive by
injections of fungicide, so they probably won't be cut down for wagon
wheels any time soon. Siberian and other Asian elms are not as
susceptible to the disease, so they are more common now, but I don't
know if they have the same interlocking grain characteristics. There
are a few varieties of American elm that have been bred for higher
tolerance of Dutch elm disease, but they haven't been around that
long, so none of those would be large enough for wagon wheels yet.
Sorry this doesn't really answer your question, but I guess I'm trying
to say you might need to search for reclaimed elm lumber, or do some
research to explore alternative woods for wagon wheel hub use.
I'm curious - are you restoring wagon wheels?
Andy

Bob AZ wrote:

| Any idea what type of wood is used in the hub of a wood spoked wagon
| wheel? Can you tell by looking or feeling?

Bob...

A suggestion: See if your local library has, or can request, a copy of
the Fox Fire books. This was a series of paperback books put together
by hgh school kids (in Appalaachia?) who interviewed oldsters in an
effort to produce a compendium of how things used to be done. One of
the volumes has an excellent chapter on making wagon wheels - with
information from people who actually did that for a living.

HTH

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

i've seen them made from white or yellow burr
oak. seems to me they are made like a barrel is made with steel bands
around them. sound right? makes nice light fixtures like for a swag.
ross
www.highislandexport.com

On 5 Apr, 07:40, (Ross Hebeisen) wrote:

seems to me they are made like a barrel is made with steel bands
around them. sound right?

Nope. They're always (*) made from solid. They're often banded too,
but they're not stave-built like a barrel.

* Some huge hubs are made from pieces, owing to their sheer size. This
is millwright's work, not wheelwright's. I'm talking about the hubs
for horse gins, mill wheels, windmill gears or trip hammers, rather
than even big cartwheels. The joinery on these things is as complex as
Japanese temple carpentry work. As they're big sections, then oak is
more common than elm. Oak in bulk is stronger than elm, elm's virtue
is in that rippled grain retaining its strength down to thin sections.

On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:53:05 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

Bob AZ wrote:

| Any idea what type of wood is used in the hub of a wood spoked wagon
| wheel? Can you tell by looking or feeling?

Bob...

A suggestion: See if your local library has, or can request, a copy of
the Fox Fire books. This was a series of paperback books put together
by hgh school kids (in Appalaachia?) who interviewed oldsters in an
effort to produce a compendium of how things used to be done. One of
the volumes has an excellent chapter on making wagon wheels - with
information from people who actually did that for a living.

Appalachia, sort of. The project was done in a school in Rabun Gap,
GA, as I recall. That's in the NE part of the state. I guess that's
the Appalachin chain, but I think it's also the southern end of the
Blue Ridge in that area. The Chattooga River runs through there, which
is where "Deliverance" was filmed.

The sad part of the Foxfire books story is that the teacher who led
the project was eventually charged with some variation of child
molesting, was discharged, and did some time.

--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite

Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999

http://www.woodbutcher.net

Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997

email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.

LRod wrote:
| On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:53:05 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
| wrote:

| Appalachia, sort of. The project was done in a school in Rabun Gap,
| GA, as I recall. That's in the NE part of the state. I guess that's
| the Appalachin chain, but I think it's also the southern end of the
| Blue Ridge in that area. The Chattooga River runs through there,
| which is where "Deliverance" was filmed.

Thanks. I wasn't sure where it was - Rabun Gap rings a bell, though. I
remember being amazed that they'd been produced by kids. I only had
the first three volumes - but felt that I learned a lot from them.

| The sad part of the Foxfire books story is that the teacher who led
| the project was eventually charged with some variation of child
| molesting, was discharged, and did some time.

That _is_ sad.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

I understand that osage orange was used a lot.

On Apr 4, 6:28�pm, "Andy" wrote:
And pray tell where does one get some "American Elm".? In a 8" round
by 16" size? *I would be afraid to ask where I live in the AZ desert.


I'm curious - are you restoring wagon wheels?

Andy

Not really restoring.

I do some work for a local blacksmith shop. They asked that I find
the right type of wood and "machine" it to size. They simply did not
have this particular item in stock..

The blacksmith shop is out of the past. Their new stuff is pre WWII. I
am not sure they even are aware that 1950 and later exists. They still
use coal for the forge. The owner is 94. His Grandfather started the
place long before the Civil War. I think it was 1840. At any rate well
before my time.

Another reply said that the piece I am to make is called the
"boxing". Again the piece is between the axle sleeve and the flanged
hub. The shop has the rivets in stock. Surplus from the Army/Calvary
stock. Even me at 70+ has to get into the past to do anything right
there.

Thanks for everybodys' responses. Now if I had a contact in Dallas.

Bob AZ

Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 4, 6:28�pm, "Andy" wrote:

And pray tell where does one get some "American Elm".? In a 8" round
by 16" size? ?I would be afraid to ask where I live in the AZ desert.


I'm curious - are you restoring wagon wheels?


Andy

Not really restoring.

I do some work for a local blacksmith shop. They asked that I find
the right type of wood and "machine" it to size. They simply did not
have this particular item in stock..

The blacksmith shop is out of the past. Their new stuff is pre WWII. I
am not sure they even are aware that 1950 and later exists. They still
use coal for the forge. The owner is 94. His Grandfather started the
place long before the Civil War. I think it was 1840. At any rate well
before my time.

Another reply said that the piece I am to make is called the
"boxing". Again the piece is between the axle sleeve and the flanged
hub. The shop has the rivets in stock. Surplus from the Army/Calvary
stock. Even me at 70+ has to get into the past to do anything right
there.

Thanks for everybodys' responses. Now if I had a contact in Dallas.

Bob AZ


I am south of Dallas, what do you need?

On Apr 4, 5:33 pm, "Bob AZ" wrote:
All

Any idea what type of wood is used in the hub of a wood spoked wagon
wheel? Can you tell by looking or feeling?

In one tv show - I think it was PBS "In Wisconsin" - they profiled a
guy who makes horse drawn wagons for customers like the Central Park
carriage rides in NYC. He said he used hickory and it had to be from
above the snow line or it wouldn't be strong enough.

On Apr 5, 2:41�pm, shawn wrote:
Bob AZ wrote:
On Apr 4, 6:28?pm, "Andy" wrote:

And pray tell where does one get some "American Elm".? In a 8" round
by 16" size? ?I would be afraid to ask where I live in the AZ desert.

I'm curious - are you restoring wagon wheels?

*Andy

Not really restoring.

I do some work for a local blacksmith shop. *They asked that I find
the right type of wood and "machine" it to size. They simply did not
have this particular item in stock..

The blacksmith shop is out of the past. Their new stuff is pre WWII. I
am not sure they even are aware that 1950 and later exists. They still
use coal for the forge. The owner is 94. His Grandfather started the
place long before the Civil War. I think it was 1840. At any rate well
before my time.

Another reply said *that the piece I am to make is called the
"boxing". *Again the piece is between the axle sleeve and the flanged
hub. The shop has the rivets in stock. Surplus from the Army/Calvary
stock. *Even me at 70+ has to get into the past to do anything right
there.

Thanks for everybodys' responses. Now if I had a contact in Dallas.

Bob *AZ

I am south of Dallas, what do you need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do Civil War Reenacting, and our unit has a canon on a wooden
carrage. When it needs work on the wheels, every few years, we take
it to an Amish shop in Indianna. They can do rebuilds or make a
complete wheel. I don't know what wood, but it's strong enouigh to
drag that canon around a battlefield all weekend, every weekend thru
the summer. Might try to Google an Amish woodworker. Hope this helps.

Thanks for everybodys' responses. Now if I had a contact in Dallas.

Bob *AZ

I am south of Dallas, what do you need?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This discussion has been about what type of wood is in the hub of a
wood wheel. The consensus of opinion seems to be American Elm. Another
mentioned to contact any tree service in Dallas. Which implys to me
that there are plenty of elm trees coming down in Dallas. I would need
log about 8" in diameter and 24" long. Of course I would pay the
shipping, probably by arranging things through FedEX Ground.

I have not attempted to locate any elm elsewhere. So until this thread
runs its' course I will hold tight for another week or so.
Thanks for the response.
Bob AZ

"rich" wrote in message

Might try to Google an Amish woodworker.

Is such a thing possible? Are there any Amish on line?

I suppose you may be able to do something by mail.

I have this strange visual of an Amish woodworker, wearing traditional
clothing, sitting at a computer.

Lee Michaels wrote:
| "rich" wrote in message
||
|| Might try to Google an Amish woodworker.
||
| Is such a thing possible? Are there any Amish on line?
|
| I suppose you may be able to do something by mail.
|
| I have this strange visual of an Amish woodworker, wearing
| traditional clothing, sitting at a computer.

....and pumping the treadle at 1 GHz.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

Thu, Apr 5, 2007, 11:59am (EDT-3) (Bob*AZ) doth
sayeth:
I do some work for a local blacksmith shop. They asked that I find the
right type of wood and "machine" it to size. They simply did not have
this particular item in stock..
The blacksmith shop is out of the past. Their new stuff is pre WWII. I
am not sure they even are aware that 1950 and later exists. They still
use coal for the forge. snip

Then why didn't you ask them what type of wood it is? Or, if they
buy them pre-made, ask where where they get them, and ask the
manufacturer? There's any number of different woods that would be
suitable. Locust for one. Google.

Is it supposed to be unusual for a blacksmiths to use coal? I
would consder using charcoal more traditonal than using coal.



JOAT
In the rough is just enough.

On Apr 7, 10:16�am, (J T) wrote:
Thu, Apr 5, 2007, 11:59am (EDT-3) (Bob*AZ) doth
sayeth:
* * *Is it supposed to be unusual for a *blacksmiths to use coal? *I
would consder using charcoal more traditonal than using coal. *

JOAT
In the rough is just enough.

Who knows what they used a hundred or more years ago? Coal is unique
for where I live. I have lived her 60+ years and have never heard or
seen of coad. Oil for heat but even that is scarce. Electric or gas or
many times nothing. Winters are mild. And some do use wood.
Bob AZ

On Apr 7, 10:16�am, (J T) wrote:
Thu, Apr 5, 2007, 11:59am (EDT-3) (Bob*AZ) doth
sayeth:
I
* * *Then why didn't you ask them what type of wood it is? * Or, if they
buy them pre-made, ask where where they get them, and ask the
manufacturer? * There's any number of different woods that would be
suitable. *Locust for one. *Google.

The shop does not know what the wood is. It is crumbling and rotting
right now. I have a small piece to go by but am not able to identify
it. The stock thay have pre made is from a long time ago. Before you
or I were born. No markings to indicate manufacturer.

There is no way they will farm out anywork at all except is rare cases
such as having me make/cut the piece. I am sure the shop will
scruitinizing me every step of the way. Their customers expect
everything to be done in house. Outsource? They probably have not
heard the word.
Bob AZ

Bob AZ wrote:


The shop does not know what the wood is. It is crumbling and rotting
right now. I have a small piece to go by but am not able to identify
it. The stock thay have pre made is from a long time ago. Before you
or I were born. No markings to indicate manufacturer.

Certainly no wood expert, but does lignum vitae meet the requirements?

Lew

"Bob AZ" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Apr 7, 10:16?am, (J T) wrote:
Thu, Apr 5, 2007, 11:59am (EDT-3) (BobAZ) doth
sayeth:
Is it supposed to be unusual for a blacksmiths to use coal? I
would consder using charcoal more traditonal than using coal.

JOAT
In the rough is just enough.

Who knows what they used a hundred or more years ago? Coal is unique
for where I live. I have lived her 60+ years and have never heard or
seen of coad. Oil for heat but even that is scarce. Electric or gas or
many times nothing. Winters are mild. And some do use wood.
Bob AZ

Cannot say what was common 100 years ago for forges, but in the settled
areas along the east coast in the 18th century coal was common. It was used
as ballast in ships... Colonial Williamsburg, VA uses coal in its forges
(though turned into coke before actually doing any forging, welding, etc.)

John



John