Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

In article . com,
Steve wrote:
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.


Redwood is a soft wood and if you are talking about ripping 1/2"
strips from 3/4" stock, this would be a good way to do it. It's less
wood being removed than many dado cuts. One caveat, because of the
tooth set, if you use a spacer of exactly 1/2" between 2 blades, the
resulting strip of wood will be somewhat less than 1/2" May or may not
be a problem for your project, if it is you can use shims to adjust
the width of cut.

Also I feel compelled to add, give some thought to safety issues here,
this cut can be made safely but needs some planning. My specific
concern would be making sure there was a safe way to continue feeding
the stock after the trailing end goes past the leading edge of the
blade.
--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland -

On 11 Jan 2007 22:44:09 -0800, "Steve" wrote:

Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

I have heard of using two blades with a spacer to cut tenons, but that
is a cut where the part between the two blades stays attached. To me,
a loose piece of wood in between two blades is asking for bad things
to happen. You could probably come up with some sort of dual splitter
arrangement that would work as long as the pieces were long enough.
But I think you would be better served with just a good rip blade
(24-30 teeth) which will mow through that redwood about as fast as you
can feed it.


-Leuf

"Steve" wrote:

Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor.

snip

The hell with the motor, what about damage to yourself?

I would not touch this one with a 20 ft pole.

It will not damage the motor. It is also not likely to give to the
repetitive cut offs you require.

Lew

I agree with Lew, once you are beyond the trailing edge of the blades
you are creating a projectile with the orphan piece.
Joe G
Steve wrote:
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

Are you really in that much of a hurry?


"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 07:29:10 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

The hell with the motor, what about damage to yourself?

I would not touch this one with a 20 ft pole.

It will not damage the motor. It is also not likely to give to the
repetitive cut offs you require.

Well it might be an excuse to buy a power feeder for pulling the stock
through, but after UPS arrived I would be standing behind you with
that pole.

Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618

Hmmm, sounds like a spear launcher. Try posting to alt.weapons

"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

Isn't that just the same technology as a stacked dado?

Norm

In article , "Norm Dresner" wrote:
"Steve" wrote in message
oups.com...
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

Isn't that just the same technology as a stacked dado?

Not quite. A stacked dado has chippers in between the two blades, that turn
all the wood in the middle into powder. He's talking about two blades with a
spacer in between, that would leave the wood in the middle intact -- basically
turning it into a spear. A blunt one, certainly, but a spear nonetheless. This
has trouble written all over it. Without a two-gang splitter, hold-downs, and
a power feeder, I see a trip to the ER.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I think the better way to rip would be to use one blade. However, try
using a 7 1/4 Freud blade that is 1/16" thick. I have used these
blades in my tablesaw with a lot of sucess and they waste very little
wood. This suggestion was originally from Phil Lowe.

This type of cut is common in industry. There are several machines made to
make this cut safely. Wood master and Grizzly both have machines to do and
sawing I believe. Before I tried to do this cut with a jury rigged system I
would look into a machine designed to make the cut. The new machine would
cost less then a trip to the hospital emergency room even if you have good
insurance.
"Steve" wrote in message
ups.com...
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

"Norm Dresner" wrote in message

Isn't that just the same technology as a stacked dado?

The idea is the similar, but a stacked dado is NOT used for a _through_ cut.
This is the key to wherein the danger lies in attempting a "gang rip" on a
stock table saw.

There are "table" type saws designed to make gang rips, but I wouldn't
attempt it on a stock setup ... the danger is real and almost a certainty.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/06/07

Steve wrote:
In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass.

Longer boards.

Steve wrote:
In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass.

Longer boards.

Steve wrote:
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

I'm w/ Larry W on this -- easy enough in principle and certainly not
too much for the saw. But, a real operational issue -- if you don't
have a power feeder to ensure the three pieces are drawn through to
clear the blade, you have a potential kickback situation as others
noted. That could be solved w/ a customized pushstick apparatus, but
not as safe as I'd like if I were doing this routinely. For me it
would have a pretty high "pucker factor"...

If this is for a routine operation that is continuing as a commercial
venture, undoubtedly the Woodmaster or similar ripsaw would be far more
effective in terms of safety and throughput and quality of the finished
edge to avoid the need for additonal work there as well.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
| "Norm Dresner" wrote in message
|
| Isn't that just the same technology as a stacked dado?
|
| The idea is the similar, but a stacked dado is NOT used for a _through_
cut.
| This is the key to wherein the danger lies in attempting a "gang rip" on a
| stock table saw.
|
| There are "table" type saws designed to make gang rips, but I wouldn't
| attempt it on a stock setup ... the danger is real and almost a certainty.
|
| --

Since the OP was asking if it would damage his saw, I was trying to tell him
that the technique was similar enough to something used every day by
thousands of craftsmen.

Norm

"Norm Dresner" wrote in message

Since the OP was asking if it would damage his saw, I was trying to tell
him
that the technique was similar enough to something used every day by
thousands of craftsmen.

Duly noted, my apologies ... I was trying to point out the disimilararity,
and the fact that it ain't the saw I'd be worrying about.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/06/07

The problems cited here all stem from this idea that one is limited to using
the rather ineffective stick with a notch on the end that people poke at
their stock with in hopes of pushing it past their blade. Those are an
invitation to disaster and the use of them has contributed much to kickback.
With a proper push BLOCK, the stock is completely under control, workpiece
and offcut, all the way through the cut. Since they were in such common use,
I made one of these pointy sticks with a hook once. After the first use, it
became firewood. I have far to much concern with my own safety to be using a
kludge like that. With a properly made, and used, pushblock, this cut could
be made with no more problem that any other cut.


"dpb" wrote in message
oups.com...

Steve wrote:
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

I'm w/ Larry W on this -- easy enough in principle and certainly not
too much for the saw. But, a real operational issue -- if you don't
have a power feeder to ensure the three pieces are drawn through to
clear the blade, you have a potential kickback situation as others
noted. That could be solved w/ a customized pushstick apparatus, but
not as safe as I'd like if I were doing this routinely. For me it
would have a pretty high "pucker factor"...

If this is for a routine operation that is continuing as a commercial
venture, undoubtedly the Woodmaster or similar ripsaw would be far more
effective in terms of safety and throughput and quality of the finished
edge to avoid the need for additonal work there as well.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:49:07 GMT, "CW" wrote:

The problems cited here all stem from this idea that one is limited to using
the rather ineffective stick with a notch on the end that people poke at
their stock with in hopes of pushing it past their blade. Those are an
invitation to disaster and the use of them has contributed much to kickback.
With a proper push BLOCK, the stock is completely under control, workpiece
and offcut, all the way through the cut. Since they were in such common use,
I made one of these pointy sticks with a hook once. After the first use, it
became firewood. I have far to much concern with my own safety to be using a
kludge like that. With a properly made, and used, pushblock, this cut could
be made with no more problem that any other cut.

Agreed power stock feeder would make it safer using it to pull the
stock past the blades. But then I use a knife my father made from
rather large bandsaw blades as a push stick when it is handy and
nothing else is (made a nice inside wrench for the table saw from it
to) 1 1/2 inch by 1/8 steel.

But a good sharp ripping blade could make the OPs day.

Mark
(sixoneeight) = 618

Steve wrote:
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

When I volunteered for the sawmill at the local thresheree a couple
years ago they had a two-bladed saw with one of the blades adjustable
side-to-side, that they used to saw slabs into boards with one pass.
Nifty little thing. Scary as hell, but it had its own power feed.
Anyway...

I don't see why you couldn't do the same thing with the table saw if
you set your blade height just a little higher than the board, and made
a sacrificial wooden pushpad with a nice high handle and grabby rubber
for a bottom, like an old mousepad or something like that. Or someone
else's mousepad. That would accomplish the same thing as a power feed,
safely.

You could put it on top of the board and just push it all the way
through the cut and all it would do is run some grooves into your
sacrificial push pad thingee.

I'd wonder if there was a way I could put splitters behind each blade
but I don't know if that would be mandatory of the pushpad was firmly
holding the wood as it went through the blades.

wrote:
Steve wrote:
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

When I volunteered for the sawmill at the local thresheree a couple
years ago they had a two-bladed saw with one of the blades adjustable
side-to-side, that they used to saw slabs into boards with one pass.
Nifty little thing. Scary as hell, but it had its own power feed.
Anyway...

I don't see why you couldn't do the same thing with the table saw if
you set your blade height just a little higher than the board, and made
a sacrificial wooden pushpad with a nice high handle and grabby rubber
for a bottom, like an old mousepad or something like that. Or someone
else's mousepad. That would accomplish the same thing as a power feed,
safely.

You could put it on top of the board and just push it all the way
through the cut and all it would do is run some grooves into your
sacrificial push pad thingee.

I'd wonder if there was a way I could put splitters behind each blade
but I don't know if that would be mandatory of the pushpad was firmly
holding the wood as it went through the blades.

You could use this jig
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,41080,41165
to put 2 splitters in a zero clearance insert. Just be sure they are
parallel, or make the splitter farthest from the fence a single point,
like a small dowel. I'd add fingers on the back of the push block set
to push both pieces and the waste when the push block was against the fence.
Joe

"Steve" wrote in message
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades
on a delta table saw and spaced the blades ½ inch
apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three
pieces of wood per pass or would it damage the motor.

While you can safely get away with this setup for non-through cuts ... i.e.
doing both sides of a tenon at once with a table saw tenoning jig ... you
are going for a rip, (a through cut) with four parts/pieces that need to be
continuously controlled, one in the front, and three on the back side of the
blade.

Despite the well meaning "maybe if you did this" advice, this is really
nothing to play around with on a stock table saw in a home shop.

Either make safety your first concern, which it should always be (and
attempting this operation with "pushsticks" alone is NOT doing that), or buy
a tool made for the job.

You may get away with it on a few rips, but with nothing else in your favor
it has the real potential to eventually bite, big time.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/06/07

Swingman wrote:


You may get away with it on a few rips, but with nothing else in
your favor
it has the real potential to eventually bite, big time.


Precisely why I made the 20 ft pole comment.

It is not a matter of "If", it's a matter of "When", it is going to
bite you.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message

Precisely why I made the 20 ft pole comment.

And with the metal pushstick mentioned, make that a 120' pole! AAMOF, I want
to be around the corner, in the next town over, from anyone using a metal
pushstick on a table saw.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/06/07

"Steve" wrote in news:1168584248.945835.118510@
38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.


How long are the boards you're ripping? I routinely rip long boards
halfway, flip them end for end, and then finish the rip the other way.
Kick back is minimized, and control maximized since only half of the board
is past the blade and you don't need to release the board at any time.
The same technique might be used for your arrangement, although extracting
the piece between the blades without blade marks might be a challenge.

Scott Cramer

CW wrote:
The problems cited here all stem from this idea that one is limited to using
the rather ineffective stick with a notch on the end that people poke at
their stock with in hopes of pushing it past their blade.

Or a power feeder, or indeed a pushblock.

The only one I would use is a power feeder. Simply because it's the
only one that feeds the stock past it, rather than attaching to the
stock and passing along past the saw. This is particularly beneficial
when it avoids the problems of getting your push stick / block / cat
past a closely-fitting crown guard over the blade.

I'm not a fan of pushblocks. Compared to a push stick they have the
disadvantage of a shorter reach over a sawblade. The temptation is thus
to lower the blade when ripping thinner stock with a pushblock to gain
clearance and IMHO this is worse than any advantage gained from the
block. Kickback happens when a horizontal force is generated by the
sawblade and transmitted to the workpiece. One of the best ways to
avoid that is by using the section of blade where the teeth are
travelling vertically, not the uppermost chord where they're moving
horizontally.

I certainly use a shallow pushblock for rebating and certainly for
short pieces that get less control from the fence. I don't use them for
through rips though.

Personally I wouldn't do this idea at all. At most it doubles saw
throughput rather than tripling it (you can only make three at once if
the stock's already sawn to width). I can also saw another rip in thin
softwood nearly as quickly as I can stack the pieces coming off. It's
certainly quicker than single rips, but unless I was doing a huge
production run it's not enough to notice. If I were doing this on that
scale, then I'd have power feeders and assistants.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message

Precisely why I made the 20 ft pole comment.

And with the metal pushstick mentioned, make that a 120' pole! AAMOF, I
want
to be around the corner, in the next town over, from anyone using a metal
pushstick on a table saw.

Boy! I am glad you said that. Considering that they sell aluminum magnetic
push sticks, I always thought I was just weird about being wary of using
anything metal near the spinning blade. Someone gave me one and I use it to
hold notes on he bulletin board. I understand that generally the push stick
is not supposed to contact the blade BUT in case it does, you now have a
metal projectile hurtling at you rather than a wooden one.

No thank you!

Vic

"Elrond Hubbard" wrote in message
.47...


How long are the boards you're ripping? I routinely rip long boards
halfway, flip them end for end, and then finish the rip the other way.
Kick back is minimized, and control maximized since only half of the board
is past the blade and you don't need to release the board at any time.
The same technique might be used for your arrangement, although extracting
the piece between the blades without blade marks might be a challenge.

Scott Cramer

WHY do you stop in the middle of a cut and star over???

Swingman wrote:

You may get away with it on a few rips, but with nothing else in your favor
it has the real potential to eventually bite, big time.

I was sawing thin strips one day. I forget why, but these were _really_
thin strips, in light pine. No more than 1/2" by 1/8"-maybe 1/4"

I knew they were going to kick back. Couldn't think how to avoid it, so
I decided to live with it. Just made sure I was well out of the firing
line instead.

A few feet behind my saw (in my impossibly cluttered workshop) is a set
of steel shelves, on which was sitting a plastic toolbox. When one of
these strips decided it was time to take up the olympic javelin event,
it went straight for the toolbox -- and punched a hole clean through
the side. This wasn't some huge flying plank, it was a strip like a
long pencil and probably lighter, yet it had that much energy in it.

Concentrates the mind wonderfully, a lesson like that.

Steve wrote:
Question? If I put two 10 inch smooth cut blades on a delta table saw
and spaced the blades ½ inch apart leaving ½ inch space to the fence,
would I be able to rip my Redwood and get three pieces of wood per pass
or would it damage the motor. In building fine Redwood planters IM
trying to find ways to cut more trim per pass. The shaft allows enough
room but figured would ask if anyone has tried this with success. Any
feed back will be appreciated.

What you are making is a gang saw.

I think the extra safety setup required would defeat the benefits of
the extra cut.

You can make a holddown easily enough , and pull the work through from
the back is almost essential to avoid the middle stip getting thrown.

I built a jig to help rip 2 x 1 and 3 x 1 furring strips into 1/2"
strips , it was just a matter of pushing the wood through the jig and
pulling it out the back .

"Leon" wrote in
. net:


How long are the boards you're ripping? I routinely rip long boards
halfway, flip them end for end, and then finish the rip the other
way. Kick back is minimized, and control maximized since only half of
the board is past the blade and you don't need to release the board
at any time. The same technique might be used for your arrangement,
although extracting the piece between the blades without blade marks
might be a challenge.

Scott Cramer

WHY do you stop in the middle of a cut and star over???


Because sometimes I don't have room to do the rip in one pass, and other
times it's safer than pushing the skinny rip through the blade with a push
stick. Or a hot dog.

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:49:07 GMT, "CW" wrote:

The problems cited here all stem from this idea that one is limited to using
the rather ineffective stick with a notch on the end that people poke at
their stock with in hopes of pushing it past their blade. Those are an
invitation to disaster and the use of them has contributed much to kickback.
With a proper push BLOCK, the stock is completely under control, workpiece
and offcut, all the way through the cut. Since they were in such common use,
I made one of these pointy sticks with a hook once. After the first use, it
became firewood. I have far to much concern with my own safety to be using a
kludge like that. With a properly made, and used, pushblock, this cut could
be made with no more problem that any other cut.

Agreed 100%- no reason why a stick has to be used. If I had a reason
to do something like this, I'd put a rabbet in the edge of a hunk of
2x4 that was as deep as the thickness of the wood and put a good
handle on it. If it still seemed a little squirrely, I'd toss a
featherboard on saw as well.

In article , "Vic Baron" wrote:

Boy! I am glad you said that. Considering that they sell aluminum magnetic
push sticks, I always thought I was just weird about being wary of using
anything metal near the spinning blade. Someone gave me one and I use it to
hold notes on he bulletin board. I understand that generally the push stick
is not supposed to contact the blade BUT in case it does, you now have a
metal projectile hurtling at you rather than a wooden one.

No thank you!

I dunno, Vic. ISTM that at that speed (approx 110mph) it doesn't make that
much difference whether it's aluminum or wood being hurled at you; it's going
to do damage and cause pain, regardless. Either way, it's not a Good Thing.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

B A R R Y writes:

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:55:24 -0800, "Vic Baron"
wrote:

Boy! I am glad you said that. Considering that they sell aluminum magnetic
push sticks, I always thought I was just weird about being wary of using
anything metal near the spinning blade.

You guys need a Festivus pole!

Oh, no. Here we go with the airing of grievances....