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#1
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1st project for a total noob...
Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first
project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? Whats the best way to join the hardwood to the exposed plys? Are these parts of plywood suitable for glueing or even some more advanced joint. Am I stupid for using plywood? It just seems difficult to find real wood in the larger width dimensions to make case sides. Most planks I've looked at are no more than 12" wide. Thanks for listening to these stupid questions. I'm trying to teach myself with only books, since I don't personally know any woodworkers. Thanks, Peter |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
wrote in message ups.com... Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? Whats the best way to join the hardwood to the exposed plys? Are these parts of plywood suitable for glueing or even some more advanced joint. Am I stupid for using plywood? It just seems difficult to find real wood in the larger width dimensions to make case sides. Most planks I've looked at are no more than 12" wide. Thanks for listening to these stupid questions. I'm trying to teach myself with only books, since I don't personally know any woodworkers. Thanks, Peter Find a high school with an evening WW course. Good luck mitering your plywood. I have a large cabinet built like that, but it is not a beginner's project. |
#4
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
What joint would be more suitable for plywood, and what is the best way
to hide the plys? Thanks for the reply. Toller wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? Whats the best way to join the hardwood to the exposed plys? Are these parts of plywood suitable for glueing or even some more advanced joint. Am I stupid for using plywood? It just seems difficult to find real wood in the larger width dimensions to make case sides. Most planks I've looked at are no more than 12" wide. Thanks for listening to these stupid questions. I'm trying to teach myself with only books, since I don't personally know any woodworkers. Thanks, Peter Find a high school with an evening WW course. Good luck mitering your plywood. I have a large cabinet built like that, but it is not a beginner's project. |
#5
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
Consider using a butt joint and putting veneer tape over the exposed end.
Won't look great, but will be oh so much easier than a miter joint. A rabbet will make it stronger and better looking (since the taped area will be thinner), but also more difficult. wrote in message oups.com... What joint would be more suitable for plywood, and what is the best way to hide the plys? Thanks for the reply. Toller wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? Whats the best way to join the hardwood to the exposed plys? Are these parts of plywood suitable for glueing or even some more advanced joint. Am I stupid for using plywood? It just seems difficult to find real wood in the larger width dimensions to make case sides. Most planks I've looked at are no more than 12" wide. Thanks for listening to these stupid questions. I'm trying to teach myself with only books, since I don't personally know any woodworkers. Thanks, Peter Find a high school with an evening WW course. Good luck mitering your plywood. I have a large cabinet built like that, but it is not a beginner's project. |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
The rabbet joint seems reasonable. Are most larger cases put together
with ply or real wood? When done with real wood, is it commonplace to have to glue boards together to accomodate the larger widths of the individual faces? Thanks! Toller wrote: Consider using a butt joint and putting veneer tape over the exposed end. Won't look great, but will be oh so much easier than a miter joint. A rabbet will make it stronger and better looking (since the taped area will be thinner), but also more difficult. wrote in message oups.com... What joint would be more suitable for plywood, and what is the best way to hide the plys? Thanks for the reply. Toller wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? Whats the best way to join the hardwood to the exposed plys? Are these parts of plywood suitable for glueing or even some more advanced joint. Am I stupid for using plywood? It just seems difficult to find real wood in the larger width dimensions to make case sides. Most planks I've looked at are no more than 12" wide. Thanks for listening to these stupid questions. I'm trying to teach myself with only books, since I don't personally know any woodworkers. Thanks, Peter Find a high school with an evening WW course. Good luck mitering your plywood. I have a large cabinet built like that, but it is not a beginner's project. |
#7
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1st project for a total noob...
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#8
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
Peter, What tools and machinery do you have available? That will influence our advice. DonkeyHody "If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." - Abraham Maslow |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
Compound Miter, router, power hand tools (drill, planer, circular saws,
jig saws etc.), some basic chisels. Basically missing a thickness planer, jointer, bandsaw, drill press and a tablesaw. My dad is bringing me most of these in January so I'm hesitant to purchase anything else until i see how good of shape these are in. Thanks for the help. DonkeyHody wrote: Peter, What tools and machinery do you have available? That will influence our advice. DonkeyHody "If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail." - Abraham Maslow |
#10
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
DonkeyHody wrote: wrote: Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? Whats the best way to join the hardwood to the exposed plys? Are these parts of plywood suitable for glueing or even some more advanced joint. Am I stupid for using plywood? It just seems difficult to find real wood in the larger width dimensions to make case sides. Most planks I've looked at are no more than 12" wide. Thanks for listening to these stupid questions. I'm trying to teach myself with only books, since I don't personally know any woodworkers. Thanks, Peter Peter, You're on the right track using hardwood ply for this application. However, I think mitering all those corners is too ambitious for a first project. You really have to get all your ducks in a row to get such a long mitered joint to fit. Unless you have access to some pretty sophisticated equipment, you'll have a real hard time cutting your pieces at the precise angles required. As an alternative, consider using 3/4 X 3/4 solid wood strips at each edge . You can even use contrasting wood and treat it as a design element. Glue the strip to the edge of one piece of plywood and after it has set, then glue the other piece of plywood at 90 degrees to the first. Edge-gluing plywood works, but doesn't make a really strong joint; so you don't want to count on that joint to hold your box together. Try to leave room to glue another 3/4 X 3/4 strip INSIDE the box along each edge so you'll can take advantage of the much stronger face-to-face bond. Everything will get nice and sturdy when you glue the back in place. Good Luck, and Have Fun DonkeyHody "Every man is my superior in that I can learn from him." - Thomas Carlyle I'm having a hard time visualizing this. I understand the strips on the front face because I assume the drawers will end up flush with the hardwood bands. Just having trouble seeing it at the corner joints. Are you saying there will be strips protruding from the square box and outside of it? |
#11
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
wrote in message ups.com... Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? I built a TV stand with a combination of plywood and hardwood. Forget mitered corners unless you can cut them perfectly. Do you have the tools to do this? Buying wide hardwood is difficult, near impossible with some species, expensive with all. You can glue up two, three, four, or whatever number of pieces you need to get the width you want. My drawer fronts are glued from narrower boards. To do this properly, you must be able to cut a very good edge and have enough clamps to hold it all together. Is the top of the box going to be overlapping the four sides? If so, you can cut the plywood, then edge it with real wood strips. They are easily attached with glue, biscuits help to align everything. Since most of the top is covered with the TV, it will look like solid wood, not ply doctored up. If you make the front face frame out of real wood there will be no edge ply showing. You won't see the back either so that can be left with the ply showing or use edge banding. Joints can be overlapped, rabbeted, etc. The ends have some trim to give the appearance of a wood panel instead of just a slab. I posted a couple of photos of what I built on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking. That will give you some ideas. |
#12
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
I don't use ply for anything but backs and, ocassionally, panel inserts. It
really doesn't much look like wood. Either you get a weird rotary grain or equally weird strips. Inexpensive commercial furniture is mostly ply with either solid wood or veneer over the ends. Yes, real wood is glued up in panels. With care you can match the wood so it is nearly invisible. If you take a course they will show you how. wrote in message oups.com... The rabbet joint seems reasonable. Are most larger cases put together with ply or real wood? When done with real wood, is it commonplace to have to glue boards together to accomodate the larger widths of the individual faces? Thanks! |
#13
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
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#14
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
Is there a link to those pixs? Love to check it out. Here's a link to
something similar in design to what I'm trying to build.... http://www.comcore21.com/large-LS-500-2D-NS-1SH-CP.htm . I know, boring for you craftsmen, but believe it or not, I like contemporary design. My design would be similar (the case, drawers) only I plan on putting casters on the bottom (duh!) and a much larger tabletop sitting on 4 'legs' coming off the top of the case. Edwin Pawlowski wrote: wrote in message ups.com... Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? I built a TV stand with a combination of plywood and hardwood. Forget mitered corners unless you can cut them perfectly. Do you have the tools to do this? Buying wide hardwood is difficult, near impossible with some species, expensive with all. You can glue up two, three, four, or whatever number of pieces you need to get the width you want. My drawer fronts are glued from narrower boards. To do this properly, you must be able to cut a very good edge and have enough clamps to hold it all together. Is the top of the box going to be overlapping the four sides? If so, you can cut the plywood, then edge it with real wood strips. They are easily attached with glue, biscuits help to align everything. Since most of the top is covered with the TV, it will look like solid wood, not ply doctored up. If you make the front face frame out of real wood there will be no edge ply showing. You won't see the back either so that can be left with the ply showing or use edge banding. Joints can be overlapped, rabbeted, etc. The ends have some trim to give the appearance of a wood panel instead of just a slab. I posted a couple of photos of what I built on alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking. That will give you some ideas. |
#15
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
wrote in message oups.com... Is there a link to those pixs? Love to check it out. alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking is a newsgroup. Just =go to it like you did to get here. Here's a link to something similar in design to what I'm trying to build.... http://www.comcore21.com/large-LS-500-2D-NS-1SH-CP.htm . I know, boring for you craftsmen, but believe it or not, I like contemporary design. My design would be similar (the case, drawers) only I plan on putting casters on the bottom (duh!) and a much larger tabletop sitting on 4 'legs' coming off the top of the case. Plywood would work for some parts, but the front, IMO, is best done wiht real wood. Given the size, it can be done with normal widths. |
#16
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1st project for a total noob...
That's cool. I'd much rather use real wood but thought it would be too
difficult given the dimensions. Maybe I'll try a prototype first with ply then do it for real once the jointer, etc. arrive. Thanks for the advice and help all! Edwin Pawlowski wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Is there a link to those pixs? Love to check it out. alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking is a newsgroup. Just =go to it like you did to get here. Here's a link to something similar in design to what I'm trying to build.... http://www.comcore21.com/large-LS-500-2D-NS-1SH-CP.htm . I know, boring for you craftsmen, but believe it or not, I like contemporary design. My design would be similar (the case, drawers) only I plan on putting casters on the bottom (duh!) and a much larger tabletop sitting on 4 'legs' coming off the top of the case. Plywood would work for some parts, but the front, IMO, is best done wiht real wood. Given the size, it can be done with normal widths. |
#17
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
I'm having a hard time visualizing this. I understand the strips on the front face because I assume the drawers will end up flush with the hardwood bands. Just having trouble seeing it at the corner joints. Are you saying there will be strips protruding from the square box and outside of it? I'm saying the 3/4 square hardwood strips would BE the corner where the side meets the back. This is my first attempt at typwriter art, so be patient with me. It's supposed to represent two pieces of plywood that each attach to a square strip of hardwood, which is depicted by the X's. The spacing will probably all go crazy when I hit the send button. If the square hardwood strip is the same thickness as your plywoood, it would sit flush with the plywood surface. ----------------------------- ----------- |XXXXXX| PLYWOOD |XXXXXX| |XXXXXX| ----------------------------- ----------- | | | P | | L | | Y | | W | | O | | O | | D | |
#18
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
" wrote in
ups.com: That's cool. I'd much rather use real wood but thought it would be too difficult given the dimensions. Maybe I'll try a prototype first with ply then do it for real once the jointer, etc. arrive. Thanks for the advice and help all! The prototype entertainment center I built, to get ready to build the 'nice one', is still in use 6 or 7 years later, in the master bedroom. More important projects seem to have come up, and SWMBO is just fine with that. Good luck on your starter project. There will be a lot to do after that. Enjoy the process! Patriarch |
#19
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
Miters are fine as long as you use a spline
wrote in message ups.com... Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? Whats the best way to join the hardwood to the exposed plys? Are these parts of plywood suitable for glueing or even some more advanced joint. Am I stupid for using plywood? It just seems difficult to find real wood in the larger width dimensions to make case sides. Most planks I've looked at are no more than 12" wide. Thanks for listening to these stupid questions. I'm trying to teach myself with only books, since I don't personally know any woodworkers. Thanks, Peter |
#20
Posted to rec.woodworking
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1st project for a total noob...
On 29 Nov 2006 19:04:57 -0800, "
wrote: Hi all. I'm trying to build a fairly basic tv stand for my first project. I plan on using 3/4 hardwood plywood for the 5 sides of the case. Approx. size of the box is 14"x18"x24". I planned on mitred joints for the top, bottom and sides to avoid the ply showing. Is this a good idea for plywood? Doesn't seem very sturdy. What other joints are appropriate for plywood case joinery that would be flush? Also, I assume I would cover the plys showing from the face of the box with regular hardwood. This would necessarily be 3/4" strips, is this correct? Whats the best way to join the hardwood to the exposed plys? Are these parts of plywood suitable for glueing or even some more advanced joint. Am I stupid for using plywood? It just seems difficult to find real wood in the larger width dimensions to make case sides. Most planks I've looked at are no more than 12" wide. Thanks for listening to these stupid questions. I'm trying to teach myself with only books, since I don't personally know any woodworkers. Thanks, Peter Hi Peter- They're not particularly stupid questions, everyone was new at this at one time. Here's another idea for you based on the tools you've got- Case sides are often made from hardwood ply for just the reason you've noted. They also expand and contract less with changes in humidity. But to avoid a cheap IKEA-style particle board look, it's nice to use floating panels in frames. This was developed (as I understand it) to allow glued-up solid wood panels to expand and contract without breaking the wood around them, but it ends up being a pleasing look that is often used in furniture even though the use of plywood reduces the need for it. I'll try to decribe how to make them with what you've got, and hopefully that will be enough to help you visualise what I'm describing- I'm sure you've seen it before somewhere, it's very common. Get your plywood, and some hardwood planks- the planks can be narrow, or even pre-cut to a specific width, like 1.5 or 2" (which may be the way to go, as you said you do not have a tablesaw.) Many lumberyards will rip them for you from wider stock for a fairly inexpensive hourly rate. Once you've got your planks, you can start making the frame. Get a straight router bit that is the same width as your plywood is thick (and with this application, your plywood can be a thin as 1/4"- the mechanical joints are in the frame). Use your router to route a groove (called a dado) in the edge of your planks. If you want them centered on the plank, there is an easy way to do that- draw a line on your router's baseplate that crosses directly over the center of the bit, and drill two holes that are the same distance from the center on either side. Put a pin in each hole, set the router on the edge of the plank, and then turn it so that one pin is touching each face of the plank. Plunge your bit about 1/4" deep, then route along the length, keeping the pins touching the faces of the plank. This will keep the bit centered, and prevent the router from wandering off-course and making a wavy line. If you want a dado deeper than 1/4", just keep making more passes, removing a little more material each time- don't try to do it all in one shot. Once all your frame pieces are dadoed, you need to decide what kind of joinery you're going to use to hold it together. Miters are easy with that radial arm saw of yours, but are not that strong. Simple butt joints are pretty weak as well, but have the benefit of being really easy to make. Arguably the best joint to use is a mortise and tenon, but they take a bit of practice to get right. Basically, you just make a square hole in the edge of one piece, and a square peg on the end of the other, then slide them together. Other things to try out are a half-lap joint, which looks like a butt joint or a mortise and tenon joint, but glues the two faces together and is much stronger than a butt joint- but not as strong as a mortise and tenon. You could also make a splined miter, where you cut the miter, then make a dado on each of the angled cuts, and glue in a thin strip of wood- that will make a miter joint much tougher, or sink screws into the joint and cover the heads with a short piece of dowel glued in place. It's your first project, so try not to make it too complicated right off the bat- just do what seems right to you, and you'll discover what you like quickly enough. Once you've got that figured out, cut the frame pieces out of the planks that you made the dadoes in. Make sure that when the pieces of the frame are assembled, the dado will be facing in towards the center. Put the frame together unglued, and measure the distance from the bottom of your dado to the bottom of the dado across from it, then subtract a sixteenth. Do that for both dimentions, then cut your plywood to that size. Glue up three pieces of the frame, slide in the plywood, and then glue in the fourth. Getting a regular tie-down rachet strap like you'd use on a trailer makes clamping frames very easy- put your glue on all the joints, (note- you should not be putting glue in the dadoes that the panel sits in, so that if the panel expands or contracts, it does not break the frame) assemble by hand, then wrap the strap around the outside and ratchet it down. This works particularly well with miter joints. Do that for each of your sides, then you can glue the sides together. Here, a simple butt joint will be fine- because it is not *really* a butt joint- it's an edge-grain to face-grain joint that will be stronger than the wood itself once glued. The top is a little different- you can use plywood, of course, and then glue hardwood all the way around, with miters in the corners. When you attach it, allow for wood movement- an easy way to do this is with L-brackets that attach to the inside of the frame walls, and under the bottom of the table with screws. Make sure that the brackets have a slot rather than a simple hole on the leg that is attaching to the top. Hope this helps- I know it's a lot to read through, but woodworking can be a complicated business until you've got a few projects under your belt. Have fun! |
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