Joe Bemier wrote:
On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups. One trip to the emergency room with a
student will buy one heck of a lot of cartridges and blades.

The review I read stated there was a test mechanism you could use to
see if the machine was likely to trigger.

Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:


Joe Bemier wrote:
On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a school
district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

One trip to the emergency room with a
student will buy one heck of a lot of cartridges and blades.

The review I read stated there was a test mechanism you could use to
see if the machine was likely to trigger.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a school
district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote in
ps.com:

J. Clarke wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a
school district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.



What would more likely happen in our district is that they would simply
close down the remaining shop programs, and retire the few shop teachers
still active.

A shame, too.

Patriarch

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:03:41 -0500, Patriarch
wrote:

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote in
ups.com:

J. Clarke wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a
school district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.



What would more likely happen in our district is that they would simply
close down the remaining shop programs, and retire the few shop teachers
still active.

A shame, too.

Patriarch

You're right - I've heard that tune before

Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a school
district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.

In other words "no". I suspect that any insurance company that told a
school district to replace a power tool with another one that was more
costly and didn't work any better would be told that their services would
no longer be required.

This assumes of course that they do not self-insure already.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article om,
Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
...previous quote snipped...J. Clarke wrote:
...snipped...
Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.


In a school or training environment, I could probably be persuaded
that this was a good idea. But once the insurance companies "realize
that there is an option" it's not too far a stretch to see that other
tools could utilize this same technology. What happens when insurers
mandate that everything from tablesaws to grinders to routers and
circular saws are equipped with similar mechanisms? That $3500
multiplied by X might not be so trivial after all.

--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland