Saw Stop
 

I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

Saw Stop
 

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J


Google this group and you will see tons of discussion on this topic.

Saw Stop
 

My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.



Mort

Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

Saw Stop
 

On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, in rec.woodworking, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

This was actually the first time I'd heard of this impressive system,
but http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-overview.htm says the
following about the hotdog video:

"The photo at the right shows what happens on a SawStop saw when a
hotdog (representing a finger) hits the spinning blade at a speed of
about 1 foot per second. "

Forrest

--
Forrest Anderson
Edinburgh
Scotland

Saw Stop
 

On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.



Mort

Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J


Thanks, Mort - very useful.
Also, very interesting that you should mention feed rate because those
guys touched on that point and I did not recall it until I read your
message.
Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.
Unfortunately, I was not able to get more info but it sounded like one
of the guys owned the machine and was not happy with it.

Good luck with your research. My concern with having these machies in
a school would be that kids might develop a sense of security working
on one and then go out into the real world and use a conventional saw
and have an accident.

Also, I did not consider Kickbacks but I'll bet you are correct.

Thanks,
J

Saw Stop
 

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Mort - very useful.
Also, very interesting that you should mention feed rate because those
guys touched on that point and I did not recall it until I read your
message.
Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.
Unfortunately, I was not able to get more info but it sounded like one
of the guys owned the machine and was not happy with it.

Good luck with your research. My concern with having these machies in
a school would be that kids might develop a sense of security working
on one and then go out into the real world and use a conventional saw
and have an accident.

You know, I think I could watch that thing fire on 10 hot dogs and not
develop a sense of security to putting my hand into the blade.

todd

Saw Stop
 

In article , Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Oh, geez, here we go *again*. SawStop has been discussed here (and just plain
cussed) at great length _at_least_ three different times. :-b

Do a Google Groups search on this NG for Saw Stop (or SawStop, without the
space) and "false positive". I imagine you'll find a bit of info...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Saw Stop
 

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 21:30:11 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Oh, geez, here we go *again*. SawStop has been discussed here (and just plain
cussed) at great length _at_least_ three different times. :-b

Do a Google Groups search on this NG for Saw Stop (or SawStop, without the
space) and "false positive". I imagine you'll find a bit of info...

Sorry if it seems redundant - my search turned up some info but I did
not see muc detail regarding *false stops* or false positives as you
put it.

Saw Stop
 

I saw a demo at a wood show and they putshed the hot dog in at a really fast
feed rate. They operator said he wanted to be able so show at least a small
mark on the hotdot so he gave the sled that the hotdog on a real fast jolt
forward, way faster then you would ever feed wood. It was a real jolt. The
hotdog had a very small nick in the outercasing of the hotdog. It was so
small it almost didnt even cut through the outer casing. I imagine if it
was your finger you would not have a drop of blood even. It was really
amazing.
"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
oups.com...
My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.



Mort

Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

Saw Stop
 

"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
oups.com...
My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.


You should do a little research before making these assumptions. According
to SawStop, wet lumber is not a problem.


I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

A cut is better than an amputation.



Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.

SawStop is not supposed to prevent kickbacks. That said however it is one
of the few brands that offer a riving knife in the US. You still have to
use you head, its still not a good idea to look down a gun barrel even
though the gun has a safety.

Saw Stop
 

Joe Bemier wrote:
On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups. One trip to the emergency room with a
student will buy one heck of a lot of cartridges and blades.

The review I read stated there was a test mechanism you could use to
see if the machine was likely to trigger.

Saw Stop
 

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...

Sorry if it seems redundant - my search turned up some info but I did
not see muc detail regarding *false stops* or false positives as you
put it.


Some false stops reported here were due to a user using a particular
electronic watch that fooled the saw. IIRC the manufacturer sent a resistor
to ad to the saw to solve this problem.

Saw Stop
 

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

Most of the owners like the saw even though some have reported some false
stops. The manufacturer helped solve the problem. LeeValley is replacing
all of their work shop saws in their store with the SawStop.

FWIW I would much rather have a false stop than not have a stop when it is
suppose to stop.

Saw Stop
 

"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
oups.com...
My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.

The riving knife is for the kickbacks.... not the SawStop mechanism. On that
note look up information on kickbacks and riving knives and you will find
that they are effective (if you actually use it!).

John

Saw Stop
 

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 18:57:28 GMT, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:


"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
.. .
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J


Google this group and you will see tons of discussion on this topic.




Hello Stout - I did and my Reply is below.

But, this does bring me to add my two cents on the subject of
*redundancy of topic* as this seems to come up from time-to-time.
I woulld suggest to you guys that there is nothing wrong with such
under certain (probably many) circumstances. At times I get the
feeling that once a Thread -with a particular Subject- has been posted
and run its course, that is supposed to close the door on the subject.
For example; because we had a post on Saw Stop I am supposed to search
and read. If I don't find an adequate answer to my currrent question
- too bad. This attitude assumes that everything anyone ever wanted to
know about the subject was contained within that original Thread and
there can be no further input, no new information, no additional
opinions, etc.
From my perspective this group has a significant number of members who
float in and out. It is possible that not everyone with something to
say added to that original message.
Further, in this case the subject deals with a rather new technology.
There might be new information.
In fact, I was here on the group when the thread passed through
earlier this year. Before I posted today I looked at the SS website
(again) and then googled and yahoo'ed the subject. I was still not
satisfied that I had an answer so I posted the specific question.
At the very least I can hope that the thread helps Mort make his
decision.

Cheers,
J

Saw Stop
 

Hello Stout - I did and my Reply is below.

If you did, you wouldn't be asking the same question that has been asked and
reanswered several times. Your question "Any of you guys have experience
with Saw Stop?". Googling Saw Stop alone would have revealed that, Yes,
several people have experience with Saw Stop. Your statements regarding the
"safety mechanism" and its tendency to engage with no flesh contact, has
also been discussed ad nauseam.

Your are more than welcome to ask this question on a daily basis (it's a
free world), but nevertheless I though my suggestion might be helpful.

Flame me if you want...

Before I posted today I looked at the SS website (again) and then googled
and yahoo'ed the subject.
I was still not satisfied that I had an answer so I posted the specific
question."

You weren't satisfied when you found out that several people have had
experience with Saw Stop?

Saw Stop
 

In article ,
Leon wrote:

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
.. .

Sorry if it seems redundant - my search turned up some info but I did
not see muc detail regarding *false stops* or false positives as you
put it.


Some false stops reported here were due to a user using a particular
electronic watch that fooled the saw. IIRC the manufacturer sent a resistor
to ad to the saw to solve this problem.



That's a good one. Someone using a sawstop, but wearing a watch while
operating it.



--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

Saw Stop
 

wrote in message
...
That's a good one. Someone using a sawstop, but wearing a watch while
operating it.


"Particular" electronic watch. Seems like it was a digital.

Saw Stop
 

Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

A google search of rec.woodworking will turn up a thread a few months
ago.

In this thread a small commercial shop had some mis-fires that were
eventually diagnosed to one particular employee. A filter sent free of
charge by Sawstop, prevented further mis-fires, and a few days later
this same employee had his thumb saved by the mechanism.

Alan

Saw Stop
 

Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:


Joe Bemier wrote:
On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a school
district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

One trip to the emergency room with a
student will buy one heck of a lot of cartridges and blades.

The review I read stated there was a test mechanism you could use to
see if the machine was likely to trigger.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Saw Stop
 

I was thinking more in terms of what would happen if the kickback would
take your hand into the blade, would the mechanism activate fast enough
to prevent serious injury.


Mort


John Grossbohlin wrote:
The riving knife is for the kickbacks.... not the SawStop mechanism. On that
note look up information on kickbacks and riving knives and you will find
that they are effective (if you actually use it!).

John

Saw Stop
 

If a kick back takes your hand into the blade, you're feeding from the wrong
end of the saw.

"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
ups.com...

I was thinking more in terms of what would happen if the kickback would
take your hand into the blade, would the mechanism activate fast enough
to prevent serious injury.


Mort


John Grossbohlin wrote:
The riving knife is for the kickbacks.... not the SawStop mechanism. On
that
note look up information on kickbacks and riving knives and you will
find
that they are effective (if you actually use it!).

John

Saw Stop
 

In article t,
Leon wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
That's a good one. Someone using a sawstop, but wearing a watch while
operating it.


"Particular" electronic watch. Seems like it was a digital.



I was speaking of the irony of using a saw stop equipped saw but not
taking the simple safety precaution of removing a watch.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

Saw Stop
 

"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
ups.com...

I was thinking more in terms of what would happen if the kickback would
take your hand into the blade, would the mechanism activate fast enough
to prevent serious injury.


If that were possible, yes it would. The blade does not really care from
what direction it is touched to transfer the signal to engage the Stop.

Saw Stop
 

wrote in message
...
In article t,




I was speaking of the irony of using a saw stop equipped saw but not
taking the simple safety precaution of removing a watch.



Ooooohhhh..

Saw Stop
 

J. Clarke wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a school
district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.

Saw Stop
 

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote in
ps.com:

J. Clarke wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a
school district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.



What would more likely happen in our district is that they would simply
close down the remaining shop programs, and retire the few shop teachers
still active.

A shame, too.

Patriarch

Saw Stop
 

Doug Miller wrote:
In article . com, "Mort Stevens" wrote:

I was thinking more in terms of what would happen if the kickback would
take your hand into the blade

This seems unlikely, to say the least -- since kickback moves *away* from the
blade.

According to an article I read the classic injury pattern is that the
material being kicked back strikes the operator on the left hand side
of their torso causing them to pivot about their right foot bringing
their right hand forward and across the blade.

If the object hits you square in the chest then maybe you go backwards.
But a glancing blow is going to send you spinning and even if your
center of mass is going backwards your body is still moving forwardsl.

Saw Stop
 

On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:03:41 -0500, Patriarch
wrote:

"Phillip Hallam-Baker" wrote in
ups.com:

J. Clarke wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a
school district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.



What would more likely happen in our district is that they would simply
close down the remaining shop programs, and retire the few shop teachers
still active.

A shame, too.

Patriarch

You're right - I've heard that tune before

Saw Stop
 

Joe Bemier wrote:
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

I think some of the concerns folks have relate to it providing a false
sense of security. You still need to treat with the same respect as any
other tablesaw. It can, and will, kickback with some impressive force.
It's like airbags in a car. You still need a seatbelt. You still need
to drive safely.

People that don't fasten their seatbelts because, "I've got airbags,"
or are careless with their table saw because, "It's a SawStop," are
just accidents waiting to happen. Like Ron White says: "You can't fix
stupid."

That said, I've been running one for about 6 months now and have had no
misfires to date. I consider it a worthwhile investment on 2 fronts:

1) If I should have an attack of stupidity, it should, at the very
least, leave me fixable.
2) It gives SWMBO peace of mind when I'm down in the shop.

One parting FYI, SawStop and Freud dados reportedly do not play well
together. Something like the Freud being a bit smaller than 8" and not
supplying a strong enough signal to prevent false positives. The
SawStop rep said the Forrester dado was known to work, so I went with
that instead of the Freud. This may have been fixed by now, but as I
have a working dado, I have no inclination to persue it.

dcm

Saw Stop
 

"Devon Miller" wrote in message
ups.com...
Snip

The SawStop rep said the Forrester dado was known to work, so I went with
that instead of the Freud.

Subaru makes dado blades now? :~)

Saw Stop
 

On 10 Jul 2006 12:52:57 -0700, "Devon Miller"
wrote:

Joe Bemier wrote:
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

I think some of the concerns folks have relate to it providing a false
sense of security. You still need to treat with the same respect as any
other tablesaw. It can, and will, kickback with some impressive force.
It's like airbags in a car. You still need a seatbelt. You still need
to drive safely.

People that don't fasten their seatbelts because, "I've got airbags,"
or are careless with their table saw because, "It's a SawStop," are
just accidents waiting to happen. Like Ron White says: "You can't fix
stupid."

That said, I've been running one for about 6 months now and have had no
misfires to date. I consider it a worthwhile investment on 2 fronts:

1) If I should have an attack of stupidity, it should, at the very
least, leave me fixable.
2) It gives SWMBO peace of mind when I'm down in the shop.

One parting FYI, SawStop and Freud dados reportedly do not play well
together. Something like the Freud being a bit smaller than 8" and not
supplying a strong enough signal to prevent false positives. The
SawStop rep said the Forrester dado was known to work, so I went with
that instead of the Freud. This may have been fixed by now, but as I
have a working dado, I have no inclination to persue it.

dcm




Thanks very much, Devon - high value info.

Saw Stop
 

Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a school
district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.

In other words "no". I suspect that any insurance company that told a
school district to replace a power tool with another one that was more
costly and didn't work any better would be told that their services would
no longer be required.

This assumes of course that they do not self-insure already.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Saw Stop
 

Leon wrote:
"Devon Miller" wrote in message
ups.com...
Snip

The SawStop rep said the Forrester dado was known to work, so I went with
that instead of the Freud.

Subaru makes dado blades now? :~)

A drum set falls down the hill -- barump bum.

Yeah, my bad, that should have been Forrest as in Forrest Dado King,
not Forrester as in 4-wheel drive.

dcm

Saw Stop
 

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

If that's the case, insurance companies would have mandated air bags in
cars, no smoking in homes, etc.


Well, there are discounts for both however insurance companies cannot
require you to do business with them. Air bags pay for themselves in
insurance premium discounts.

Saw Stop
 

Leon wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

If that's the case, insurance companies would have mandated air bags in
cars, no smoking in homes, etc.


Well, there are discounts for both however insurance companies cannot
require you to do business with them. Air bags pay for themselves in
insurance premium discounts.

Why would an insurance company give a discount for a piece of equipment that
is required by law to be present?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Saw Stop
 

In article om,
Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:
...previous quote snipped...J. Clarke wrote:
...snipped...
Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.


In a school or training environment, I could probably be persuaded
that this was a good idea. But once the insurance companies "realize
that there is an option" it's not too far a stretch to see that other
tools could utilize this same technology. What happens when insurers
mandate that everything from tablesaws to grinders to routers and
circular saws are equipped with similar mechanisms? That $3500
multiplied by X might not be so trivial after all.

--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

Saw Stop
 

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Leon wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

If that's the case, insurance companies would have mandated air bags in
cars, no smoking in homes, etc.


Well, there are discounts for both however insurance companies cannot
require you to do business with them. Air bags pay for themselves in
insurance premium discounts.

Why would an insurance company give a discount for a piece of equipment that
is required by law to be present?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

It is still quite possible to buy a used car that is not equipped with
air bags, or even seat belts for that matter. AFAIK there is no
jurisdiction in the country that has required retrofitting either.

--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

Saw Stop
 

On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:13:04 -0500, ()
wrote:

In article ,
J. Clarke wrote:
Leon wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

If that's the case, insurance companies would have mandated air bags in
cars, no smoking in homes, etc.


Well, there are discounts for both however insurance companies cannot
require you to do business with them. Air bags pay for themselves in
insurance premium discounts.

Why would an insurance company give a discount for a piece of equipment that
is required by law to be present?

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

It is still quite possible to buy a used car that is not equipped with
air bags, or even seat belts for that matter. AFAIK there is no
jurisdiction in the country that has required retrofitting either.

I think seat belts are required by law. At least when I went to have
my 1974 BMW 2002 inspected the guy checked out the seat belts saying
something like...."you never know with these older cars"

Saw Stop
 

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message

I think seat belts are required by law. At least when I went to have
my 1974 BMW 2002 inspected the guy checked out the seat belts saying
something like...."you never know with these older cars"

That depends upon where you are. IIRC, Arkansas no longer requires minimum
vehicle safety inspections. In Texas only the law abiding are required to,
everyone else gets a surrogate hundred dollar bill inspected.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06