I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.



Mort

Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, in rec.woodworking, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

This was actually the first time I'd heard of this impressive system,
but http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-overview.htm says the
following about the hotdog video:

"The photo at the right shows what happens on a SawStop saw when a
hotdog (representing a finger) hits the spinning blade at a speed of
about 1 foot per second. "

Forrest

--
Forrest Anderson
Edinburgh
Scotland

On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.



Mort

Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J


Thanks, Mort - very useful.
Also, very interesting that you should mention feed rate because those
guys touched on that point and I did not recall it until I read your
message.
Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.
Unfortunately, I was not able to get more info but it sounded like one
of the guys owned the machine and was not happy with it.

Good luck with your research. My concern with having these machies in
a school would be that kids might develop a sense of security working
on one and then go out into the real world and use a conventional saw
and have an accident.

Also, I did not consider Kickbacks but I'll bet you are correct.

Thanks,
J

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Mort - very useful.
Also, very interesting that you should mention feed rate because those
guys touched on that point and I did not recall it until I read your
message.
Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.
Unfortunately, I was not able to get more info but it sounded like one
of the guys owned the machine and was not happy with it.

Good luck with your research. My concern with having these machies in
a school would be that kids might develop a sense of security working
on one and then go out into the real world and use a conventional saw
and have an accident.

You know, I think I could watch that thing fire on 10 hot dogs and not
develop a sense of security to putting my hand into the blade.

todd

Joe Bemier wrote:
On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups. One trip to the emergency room with a
student will buy one heck of a lot of cartridges and blades.

The review I read stated there was a test mechanism you could use to
see if the machine was likely to trigger.

Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:


Joe Bemier wrote:
On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, "Mort Stevens"
wrote:

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to
feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say
*imperfections* of some kind.

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a school
district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

One trip to the emergency room with a
student will buy one heck of a lot of cartridges and blades.

The review I read stated there was a test mechanism you could use to
see if the machine was likely to trigger.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J. Clarke wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week
your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the
insurance contract re-ups.

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a school
district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to
being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon
as they realize that there is an option.

The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is
nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of
injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a
million dollars or so (kid loses hand).

If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it,
either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance
requirement.

I saw a demo at a wood show and they putshed the hot dog in at a really fast
feed rate. They operator said he wanted to be able so show at least a small
mark on the hotdot so he gave the sled that the hotdog on a real fast jolt
forward, way faster then you would ever feed wood. It was a real jolt. The
hotdog had a very small nick in the outercasing of the hotdog. It was so
small it almost didnt even cut through the outer casing. I imagine if it
was your finger you would not have a drop of blood even. It was really
amazing.
"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
oups.com...
My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.



Mort

Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
oups.com...
My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.


You should do a little research before making these assumptions. According
to SawStop, wet lumber is not a problem.


I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

A cut is better than an amputation.



Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.

SawStop is not supposed to prevent kickbacks. That said however it is one
of the few brands that offer a riving knife in the US. You still have to
use you head, its still not a good idea to look down a gun barrel even
though the gun has a safety.

"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
oups.com...
My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it
will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also
trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than
dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated
surfaces will trip it as well.

I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have
contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still
don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with
a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video
that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the
blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is
it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.

Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share
with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the
speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of
the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.

The riving knife is for the kickbacks.... not the SawStop mechanism. On that
note look up information on kickbacks and riving knives and you will find
that they are effective (if you actually use it!).

John

I was thinking more in terms of what would happen if the kickback would
take your hand into the blade, would the mechanism activate fast enough
to prevent serious injury.


Mort


John Grossbohlin wrote:
The riving knife is for the kickbacks.... not the SawStop mechanism. On that
note look up information on kickbacks and riving knives and you will find
that they are effective (if you actually use it!).

John

If a kick back takes your hand into the blade, you're feeding from the wrong
end of the saw.

"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
ups.com...

I was thinking more in terms of what would happen if the kickback would
take your hand into the blade, would the mechanism activate fast enough
to prevent serious injury.


Mort


John Grossbohlin wrote:
The riving knife is for the kickbacks.... not the SawStop mechanism. On
that
note look up information on kickbacks and riving knives and you will
find
that they are effective (if you actually use it!).

John

CW wrote:
If a kick back takes your hand into the blade, you're feeding from the wrong
end of the saw.



Hi

A common result of kickbacks is that a saw operator will reflexively
push down on a workpiece that starts to lift off the table (No, I can't
quote my source, but OHSA will back me up.). My FIL worked with a very
experienced carpenter who did this and rip cut his hand between his 3rd
and 4th fingers.

SawStop won't eliminate kickbacks, but it should stop the blade if you
push your meaty hand into it.

Play safe
drifwood

"Mort Stevens" wrote in message
ups.com...

I was thinking more in terms of what would happen if the kickback would
take your hand into the blade, would the mechanism activate fast enough
to prevent serious injury.


If that were possible, yes it would. The blade does not really care from
what direction it is touched to transfer the signal to engage the Stop.

In article , Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Oh, geez, here we go *again*. SawStop has been discussed here (and just plain
cussed) at great length _at_least_ three different times. :-b

Do a Google Groups search on this NG for Saw Stop (or SawStop, without the
space) and "false positive". I imagine you'll find a bit of info...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 21:30:11 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article , Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Oh, geez, here we go *again*. SawStop has been discussed here (and just plain
cussed) at great length _at_least_ three different times. :-b

Do a Google Groups search on this NG for Saw Stop (or SawStop, without the
space) and "false positive". I imagine you'll find a bit of info...

Sorry if it seems redundant - my search turned up some info but I did
not see muc detail regarding *false stops* or false positives as you
put it.

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...

Sorry if it seems redundant - my search turned up some info but I did
not see muc detail regarding *false stops* or false positives as you
put it.


Some false stops reported here were due to a user using a particular
electronic watch that fooled the saw. IIRC the manufacturer sent a resistor
to ad to the saw to solve this problem.

In article ,
Leon wrote:

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
.. .

Sorry if it seems redundant - my search turned up some info but I did
not see muc detail regarding *false stops* or false positives as you
put it.


Some false stops reported here were due to a user using a particular
electronic watch that fooled the saw. IIRC the manufacturer sent a resistor
to ad to the saw to solve this problem.



That's a good one. Someone using a sawstop, but wearing a watch while
operating it.



--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

wrote in message
news
That's a good one. Someone using a sawstop, but wearing a watch while
operating it.


"Particular" electronic watch. Seems like it was a digital.

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J


Google this group and you will see tons of discussion on this topic.

On Sun, 09 Jul 2006 18:57:28 GMT, "Stoutman" .@. wrote:


"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
.. .
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J


Google this group and you will see tons of discussion on this topic.




Hello Stout - I did and my Reply is below.

But, this does bring me to add my two cents on the subject of
*redundancy of topic* as this seems to come up from time-to-time.
I woulld suggest to you guys that there is nothing wrong with such
under certain (probably many) circumstances. At times I get the
feeling that once a Thread -with a particular Subject- has been posted
and run its course, that is supposed to close the door on the subject.
For example; because we had a post on Saw Stop I am supposed to search
and read. If I don't find an adequate answer to my currrent question
- too bad. This attitude assumes that everything anyone ever wanted to
know about the subject was contained within that original Thread and
there can be no further input, no new information, no additional
opinions, etc.
From my perspective this group has a significant number of members who
float in and out. It is possible that not everyone with something to
say added to that original message.
Further, in this case the subject deals with a rather new technology.
There might be new information.
In fact, I was here on the group when the thread passed through
earlier this year. Before I posted today I looked at the SS website
(again) and then googled and yahoo'ed the subject. I was still not
satisfied that I had an answer so I posted the specific question.
At the very least I can hope that the thread helps Mort make his
decision.

Cheers,
J

Hello Stout - I did and my Reply is below.

If you did, you wouldn't be asking the same question that has been asked and
reanswered several times. Your question "Any of you guys have experience
with Saw Stop?". Googling Saw Stop alone would have revealed that, Yes,
several people have experience with Saw Stop. Your statements regarding the
"safety mechanism" and its tendency to engage with no flesh contact, has
also been discussed ad nauseam.

Your are more than welcome to ask this question on a daily basis (it's a
free world), but nevertheless I though my suggestion might be helpful.

Flame me if you want...

Before I posted today I looked at the SS website (again) and then googled
and yahoo'ed the subject.
I was still not satisfied that I had an answer so I posted the specific
question."

You weren't satisfied when you found out that several people have had
experience with Saw Stop?

"Joe Bemier" wrote in message
...
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

Most of the owners like the saw even though some have reported some false
stops. The manufacturer helped solve the problem. LeeValley is replacing
all of their work shop saws in their store with the SawStop.

FWIW I would much rather have a false stop than not have a stop when it is
suppose to stop.

Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

A google search of rec.woodworking will turn up a thread a few months
ago.

In this thread a small commercial shop had some mis-fires that were
eventually diagnosed to one particular employee. A filter sent free of
charge by Sawstop, prevented further mis-fires, and a few days later
this same employee had his thumb saved by the mechanism.

Alan

Joe Bemier wrote:
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

I think some of the concerns folks have relate to it providing a false
sense of security. You still need to treat with the same respect as any
other tablesaw. It can, and will, kickback with some impressive force.
It's like airbags in a car. You still need a seatbelt. You still need
to drive safely.

People that don't fasten their seatbelts because, "I've got airbags,"
or are careless with their table saw because, "It's a SawStop," are
just accidents waiting to happen. Like Ron White says: "You can't fix
stupid."

That said, I've been running one for about 6 months now and have had no
misfires to date. I consider it a worthwhile investment on 2 fronts:

1) If I should have an attack of stupidity, it should, at the very
least, leave me fixable.
2) It gives SWMBO peace of mind when I'm down in the shop.

One parting FYI, SawStop and Freud dados reportedly do not play well
together. Something like the Freud being a bit smaller than 8" and not
supplying a strong enough signal to prevent false positives. The
SawStop rep said the Forrester dado was known to work, so I went with
that instead of the Freud. This may have been fixed by now, but as I
have a working dado, I have no inclination to persue it.

dcm

"Devon Miller" wrote in message
ups.com...
Snip

The SawStop rep said the Forrester dado was known to work, so I went with
that instead of the Freud.

Subaru makes dado blades now? :~)

Leon wrote:
"Devon Miller" wrote in message
ups.com...
Snip

The SawStop rep said the Forrester dado was known to work, so I went with
that instead of the Freud.

Subaru makes dado blades now? :~)

A drum set falls down the hill -- barump bum.

Yeah, my bad, that should have been Forrest as in Forrest Dado King,
not Forrester as in 4-wheel drive.

dcm

On 10 Jul 2006 14:28:14 -0700, "Devon Miller"
wrote:

Yeah, my bad, that should have been Forrest as in Forrest Dado King,
not Forrester as in 4-wheel drive.

Heh, my first thought was "Dr. Clayton Forrester" of MST3K fame.

On 10 Jul 2006 12:52:57 -0700, "Devon Miller"
wrote:

Joe Bemier wrote:
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J

I think some of the concerns folks have relate to it providing a false
sense of security. You still need to treat with the same respect as any
other tablesaw. It can, and will, kickback with some impressive force.
It's like airbags in a car. You still need a seatbelt. You still need
to drive safely.

People that don't fasten their seatbelts because, "I've got airbags,"
or are careless with their table saw because, "It's a SawStop," are
just accidents waiting to happen. Like Ron White says: "You can't fix
stupid."

That said, I've been running one for about 6 months now and have had no
misfires to date. I consider it a worthwhile investment on 2 fronts:

1) If I should have an attack of stupidity, it should, at the very
least, leave me fixable.
2) It gives SWMBO peace of mind when I'm down in the shop.

One parting FYI, SawStop and Freud dados reportedly do not play well
together. Something like the Freud being a bit smaller than 8" and not
supplying a strong enough signal to prevent false positives. The
SawStop rep said the Forrester dado was known to work, so I went with
that instead of the Freud. This may have been fixed by now, but as I
have a working dado, I have no inclination to persue it.

dcm




Thanks very much, Devon - high value info.

Joe and all,

I manage a student shop in a college of architecture.

We've been running 2 of the first sawstops since Jan 05.

In the 18 months we've had the saws, the stopping mechanisms have
triggered 8 or 9 times. So basically ~$50/month insurance policy. All
but one have been user error: 1 chicken leg, 3 aluminum miter
gauge/x-cut fence, 2 gap distance (between blade and brake cartridge), 1
foil backed foam, 1 aluminum sheet (forgot bypass), 1 green treated
plywood. Hopefully we have fewer triggers as we and our our users learn
where we need to change our modus operandi. Sawstop has given us maybe
3 free brake cartridges for our trouble. They have diagnosed
"triggered" brake cartridges and called us with an explaination of what
probably caused the event (green treated, gap distance).

If conductive materials are embedded in a piece of wood, the sawstop
will not necessarily go off. In order for the brake to trigger, a
circuit must be completed, so unless the metal contacts both the blade
AND the saw table (or the operator) it won't go off. When I initially
tested the machine, I cut through dozens of nails and staples that were
clear of the table or my hand. the saw cut through them with no problem.

A couple months ago, the sawstop was demonstrated at a meeting of the
minnesota woodworkers guild. Unsatisfied with the usual hot dog test,
the demonstrator turned it up a notch. A 2' long summer sausage was
swung into the blade like a baseball bat. The blade got about 3/8" into
the sausage. I cannot imagine any circumstance in which a saw operator
could move into the blade as rapidly as that summer sausage.

I continue to be impressed with the quality of these machines, and look
forward to additional offerings from sawstop. Staven Gass recently
mentioned that the "other" saw manufacturers are settling sawstop
related lawsuits. I think it is only a matter of time until they
license the system or develop something of their own. Basically, I
think it will become too expensive for them not to improve the safety of
their offerings.

Good Luck
Kevin Groenke


Here are some comments I posted previously.


The SawStop cabinet saw is the best cabinet saw on the market.

Below are impressions I've previously posted regarding the 2 SawStop cabinet saws that we've had running since January.

original posts are here
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/archma...?query=sawstop

here is some other info
http://www.just4fun.org/woodworking/...views/sawstop/
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forum...pl?read=386698
http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/searc....cgi#reference


The only thing I would add is that customer service from the folks at SawStop has been great. We've had a couple more triggers, each time we've contacted SawStop to let them know what had happened. On the occasions of a false positive, or other technical problem, SawStop has sent replacement brakes and addressed any problem. Each of the "triggers" was technically our fault, we should have known that the SawStop would have been activated (blade/brake clearance, green treated ply, foil faced foam) and should have by-passed the mechanism. SawStop has taken back the spent brakes to analyze the data and has sent us more new brakes than we've deserved. As they should be, the saws are still like new.


INITIAL IMPRESSIONS
quality -

These machines seem are built much better than the unisaw that we bought 4 years ago(not saying much really). An extension table flatness problem has been mentioned, but our tables and rt wings are flat within .010". We never put on the left wings since we installed sliding tables, so I cannot speak to that issue. The trunnions, arbor shaft, bearings, and even the main table are beefier than comparable parts on a unisaw and a pm 66.
The polished handwheels are big and heavy with very nicely spinning cranks. Height & angle adjustment are smooth and easy (of course the machines are brand new, so they better be) .
I'd like a polished tabletop, and these are just ground, but that will make the first scratches less painful.
The machines are smoother and quieter than the last unisaw was when new.
A nickel sits on edge on the tabletop from start up through cutting 8/4 maple through shut down.
Initial indications are that these machines are well made. - time will tell.
design -
There is alot going on inside of these saws.
I like the linear (rather than arc) raising action, it seems much more intuitive even if more complicated.
A gas spring supports the arbor and assists blade raising.
The splitter/blade guard/riving knife is EXCELLENT - easy to change, easy to adjust, and wedded to blade height like it should be.
The blade guard itself is only about 1-1/4" wide and contoured to "hug" the blade- much less obtrusive than traditional guards.
We will likely ALWAYS use the riving knife and the overhead blade guard. I expect significantly fewer kickbacks as a result of the "invisible" riving knife.
The brake cartridge is not the easiest thing to change- but it will probably become easier as we do it.
The extension table is gloss black laminate. Black? Gloss? Can you say glare? We will probably start with sanding out the gloss, then get rid of the black if it is still too annoying. Sawstop took the color theme WAY too far here.
I look forward to seeing how the DC shroud works, but this is an arbor nutsucker waiting to happen.
What happens to the dust that gets past the DC shroud, how much dust will build up inside the cabinet, how hard will it be to get out?
If the DC shroud is effective, it should keep all of the other parts cleaner for smooth operation and less wear.
The large access door should allow enough access to service the saw, but it's under the extension table, so it still won't be easy.
The belt access door seems appropriate, not sure about the single splined belt - seems a bit light.
The bump switch is well located and a good size, after not much use, we should be able to easily shut off the saw, but it will be a while before we stop doing so inadvertently. The arbor/arbor nut wrenches are WAY TOO BIG, this will encourage overtightening and our ARBORS will be STRIPPED in no time. Are you reading this Steve?
The fence is a biesmeyer clone - faces are replaceable with "keyhole slots" - this is ok, but I don't really feel that they are flat/secure with no way to tighten them.
Rare earth magnets on the fence lever and dust shroud door are nice details, as is the "soft" fence handle.
The "power disconnect switch" is on the rear of the left side of the cabinet (beneath our sliding table) this is too hard to get to for routine blade changes etc...
In order to get inside the cabinet to change the brake/make adjustments, the throat opening is larger than a unisaw's. This is ok access-wise, but having less of a smooth, flat tabletop can be problematic.
The process to "by-pass" the sawstop mechanism must be done each time the saw started in by-pass.- a pain if we're cutting a bun of aluminum all day.
issues-
We occasionally used 8 1/4" thin kerf (3/64") blades for slotting and making scale lumber - sawstop requires 10" blades or 8" dadoes.
Hmmm, if we use the dado brake and an 8-1/4" blade...
We need to explain to 500 college students why and how the saws are different.
Gloss black extension table?
Separate arbor nut/washer invites droppage into dust collection and "washerless" re-installation. (We had welded a washer to a nut to eliminate this on unisaws)
I have to get rid of 2 old unisaws, 1 jet sliding table and 1 excalibur bladeguard.
The height of the back fence rail makes it impossible to mount a flush outfeed table (same as biesmeyer). I re-drilled and lowered, now 1 of the doors doesn't open past he rail, arggggh.

MORE IMPRESSIONS
(after a month or two of use)

These are very nice saws.
They are smooth, quiet, and basically a pleasure to use, definitely comparable+ to a PM66.
To date our students have had few problems making the switch from the unisaws.
The riving knife is great!: easy to change, never in the way and effectively keeps stock going in a straight line.
I sanded the gloss off of the extension tables and they are ok now.
After 15-20 brake cartridge changes it is pretty second nature (this is just an issue of learning where the "locating pins" are).
Arbor nuts/washers drop directly into the hose attached to the "dust shroud" we have enough suction to move the nuts to the most inaccessible part of the DC pipe. I suppose it's time for an access port.
We LOVE the paddle switch, a machine has never been so easy to shut off.
The "power disconnect switch" however is on the bottom back corner of the left side of the cabinet and is a pain to get to with the sliding table attached to the saw, oh well.

Now that SawStops are in service, I suspect it won't be long before Delta/Jet/Grizzly get sued (and lose) because they failed to provide such a system. Perhaps they will be beating a path to SawStop for licensing sooner rather than later. Let the market decide I suppose, should be interesting to watch.

THE TEST:
SawStop provided us with a demo cartridge and we tested the SawStop on Thursday, January 13th.

I cut a variety of materials such as: wood, plywood, melamine, acrylic, mdf. etc. I enabled the bypass and cut aluminum, green treated and stapled pine. When in bypass mode you will get a code in flashing lights indicating whether the SawStop would have triggered. The lights indicated that the SawStop WOULD NOT have been triggered by cutting the green treated or the stapled pine, so I proceeded to cut them with the SawStop on.

I then got out the drumsticks and cut one in bypass mode. It's amazing how easy it is to cut through a drumstick, pretty gory and except for the lack of blood, not unlike a shop accident. I've always thought of doing this during shop orientations, but decided that it could encourage sophomoric actions (the last thing they need is encouragement).

I'd been asked by some rec.woodworkers to push the stock rapidly into the blade in order to get an idea how much damage would be done in the case of a slip or similar accident.

So to test the SawStop I jammed the drumstick into the blade nearly as fast is I could, the blade promptly disappeared and with virtually no resistance I proceeded to IMPALE the chicken leg onto the riving knife (oh the shame).

RESULTS:
SawStop works: the blade definitely stopped and definitely dropped (observers indicated that this happened too fast to discern). Since the drumstick was impaled on the riving knife, I have NO IDEA, how much damage the drumstick sustained from the blade before it's encounter with the riving knife. As you can imagine this was a little embarrassing. Here we've spent $6000 on saws that "save fingers", and I've got a chicken leg skewered by a chunk of steel, not so impressive.

Coincidentally, the SawStop went off again the first time we tilted the blade as we had neglected to provide adequate clearance for the aluminum fence on the sliding table. DOH!!! Again observers were dumbfounded. Results: a tiny nick on the crosscutting fence.

I was expecting a significant jolt/vibration/lurch of the saw when the SawStop was triggered, but aside from a solid THUD and the "disappearance" of blade, there are little dramatics.


--



Joe Bemier wrote:
I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I
overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying
that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no
hand/finger/whatever touched the blade.
Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?

Thanks,
J