I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

Jake wrote:

I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

Nothing. You need a planer to get the faces parallel. That's because a
planer references the first (and only) face that you've run through the
jointer. the jointed face goes against the table of the planer. That's
why it's the machine to use AFTER making ONE edge and ONE face flat (and
perpendicular to each other) on the jointer.

Dave

Jake wrote:

I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

Wouldn't it be easier to joint one face first, and then hold that face
against the jointer fence to make the first edge perpendicular to that
face? ie I can't feature trying to hold a thin edge against the fence
in order to assure the first face will be jointed correctly. Maybe
you've got some technique I've never mastered.

dave

On 24 Jan 2006 18:16:42 -0800, "Jake" wrote:

I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?


A jointer can't do the job of a planer. It can make the faces flat
but it can't make them parallel.


--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/

On 24 Jan 2006 18:16:42 -0800, "Jake" wrote:

edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

You might check to see if the knives are parrallel with the table(s).
It's possible that the knives are higher on one end of the spindle.

If you have a dial indicator you can just check the blade height in
relationship to the table.

If not, you can just make a quick (not so scientific) check with a
scrap of wood.
With the machine unplugged, try taking a pretty straight piece of
scrap and lay it on the out-feed table against the fence and let it
hang over the spindle. Turn the spindle (or pulley) by hand until the
knife touches the wood. Now raise the out-feed table until the blade
barely nicks the wood....almost not touching. Now just slide the
piece of wood over to the outside of the spindle (away from the fence)
and see if the blade barely nicks the wood on that side of the table.
If the blade touches on one side and not the other or barley nicks on
one side and raises the scrap on the other, then it's time to re-set
the knives

Mike O.

Mike O. wrote:

On 24 Jan 2006 18:16:42 -0800, "Jake" wrote:


edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?


You might check to see if the knives are parrallel with the table(s).
It's possible that the knives are higher on one end of the spindle.


Mike O.
Tell me your kidding, based on the OP's symptoms!

Dave

There is a definite sequence of steps to square and
true a workpiece. Each step requires a certain kind of
equipment and produces part of the solution, e.g. a jointer
by itself will give you one flat face and one straight
edge square to the flat face. But, in general, you cannot
produce two flat faces and two straight edges, with everything
perpendicular and parallel, using only a jointer.

If you are getting the second edge straight by using a table
saw, then all you need is to plane the second face parallel
to the first one. A planer will do it but if you have the
desire to learn it, you could do the planing by hand. You'd
have to acquire a couple of good hand planes (total cost
could be around that of a power planer) and it takes longer
but there are advantages to being able to do the planing
by hand. Many of us just like doing the planing by hand.

You can find some good lessons on how to "true up" stock either
in a book on woodworking techniques or by searching around
on the web.

"Jake" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:45:39 -0800, David wrote:

Tell me your kidding, based on the OP's symptoms!

I believe what he said is that the faces are not parallel after
jointing both faces.
I did assume that they probably were when he started. While I agree
that a planer might be better suited to his needs, knives that are not
installed properly on a joiner can cause just the problem he
describes. I also did not say it WAS his problem I said he might
want to check his knives for proper installation.

Mike O.

Read this:
http://www.inthewoodshop.org/methods/wwc01.shtml --dave



"Jake" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

In article .com, "Jake" wrote:
I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

Two things: one, jointing the edge first and then the face (should be the
other way around); two, expecting a jointer to make opposite faces of the
board parallel. A jointer makes a surface flat. That's all it does. There is
simply no way to ensure that the second face is parallel to the first. That's
what a planer is for (or hand planes).

The proper sequence is:
1) joint one face straight and true
2) joint one edge straight and true, and square to the jointed face
3) plane the second face parallel to the first
4) ripsaw the second edge parallel to the first

The order can be altered slightly: #1 must come first, and #2 must precede #4.
So you could do it 1-3-2-4 or 1-2-4-3 also.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article , Mike O. wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:45:39 -0800, David wrote:

Tell me your kidding, based on the OP's symptoms!

I believe what he said is that the faces are not parallel after
jointing both faces.

Right -- which is exactly what one would expect from the procedure he
described.

I did assume that they probably were when he started.

The OP explicitly stated he's working with rough stock, so this seems
unlikely.

While I agree
that a planer might be better suited to his needs, knives that are not
installed properly on a joiner can cause just the problem he
describes.

So does trying to use a jointer to do the job of a planer. Even if the knives
are perfectly aligned, you *still* can't joint opposite faces of a board
parallel except by luck.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On 24 Jan 2006 18:16:42 -0800, "Jake" wrote:

I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

Do one face against the jointer, then use a surface planer (else your
stock won't have parallel faces). It would be preferable to use a
surface planer (rather than a jointer on one side) on BOTH of the
large faces--much safer too!

In article , wrote:
On 24 Jan 2006 18:16:42 -0800, "Jake" wrote:

I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

Do one face against the jointer, then use a surface planer (else your
stock won't have parallel faces). It would be preferable to use a
surface planer (rather than a jointer on one side) on BOTH of the
large faces--much safer too!

Note that this does not mean to use the planer *only* and not the
jointer. Rather, it means use the jointer on one face first, plane the second
face parallel to the first, and then plane the first face. Jointing and then
planing leaves a smoother surface than jointing alone.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

"Jake" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?


First thing, think FEE when prepping rough stock. Faces, Edges, Ends. The
reason you do the face before the edge is so you have a larger face bearing
against the fence during step 2 to ensure squareness. Of course, ends won't
apply until you get the stock off your jointer and get done planing the
opposite face, but you get the idea. Flatten a face, plane the opposite
face parallel, joint the edges, then square the ends. This doesn't address
your issue of getting the faces parallel. This is what a planer or a sharp
plane and a marking gauge are for.

hth,

jc

I don't see why this is the case.

Joint one side of the board flat. Using your properly aligned
fence, joint the adjoining side to be exactly perpendicular.
Now use THAT side to reference the next adjoining side to be
exactly perpendicular. Then you can use that to make the final
side perpendicular. Thus, all opposite sides would be
parallel to each other, just like a planer would do.

Of course if the edges are significantly smaller than the
other surfaces, this could be difficult to do. Conversely,
if you're using fairly square stock, I don't see why you
shouldn't be able to get parallel opposite sides with just
a jointer.

Chuck Taylor wrote:

A jointer can't do the job of a planer. It can make the faces flat
but it can't make them parallel.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:02:45 -0600, Mike Berger
wrote:

Chuck Taylor wrote:

A jointer can't do the job of a planer. It can make the faces flat
but it can't make them parallel.

I don't see why this is the case.

Joint one side of the board flat. Using your properly aligned
fence, joint the adjoining side to be exactly perpendicular.
Now use THAT side to reference the next adjoining side to be
exactly perpendicular. Then you can use that to make the final
side perpendicular. Thus, all opposite sides would be
parallel to each other, just like a planer would do.



Aside from the practical difficulties of that procedure, it will *not*
yield uniform thickness along the length of the stock.


--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact/

Mike Berger wrote:

Joint one side of the board flat. Using your properly aligned
fence, joint the adjoining side to be exactly perpendicular.
Now use THAT side to reference the next adjoining side to be
exactly perpendicular. Then you can use that to make the final
side perpendicular. Thus, all opposite sides would be
parallel to each other, just like a planer would do.

This just ensures that each corner along the edge is 90 degrees when
measured perpendicular to the edge. It doesn't ensure that the corners
along each *end* are also 90 degrees.

Thus, the board can taper from one end to the other, like a wedge.

Chris

Mike Berger wrote:
I don't see why this is the case.

Joint one side of the board flat. Using your properly aligned
fence, joint the adjoining side to be exactly perpendicular.
Now use THAT side to reference the next adjoining side to be
exactly perpendicular. Then you can use that to make the final
side perpendicular. Thus, all opposite sides would be
parallel to each other, just like a planer would do.

Of course if the edges are significantly smaller than the
other surfaces, this could be difficult to do. Conversely,
if you're using fairly square stock, I don't see why you
shouldn't be able to get parallel opposite sides with just
a jointer.

If you get parallel faces by that method it will be because you were
lucky and not because you were good. A board could be shaped like a
pyramid and still have all 4 faces perpendicular to each other.

DonkeyHody
"Even an old blind hog finds an acorn every now and then."

Mike Berger wrote:

Of course if the edges are significantly smaller than the
other surfaces, this could be difficult to do. Conversely,
if you're using fairly square stock, I don't see why you
shouldn't be able to get parallel opposite sides with just
a jointer.


"Fairly square stock"? let's just skip all the jointing then! g

Mike, a jointer does not produce parallel faces except by luck. A
planer uses the flat face as a reference to plane the second, and
opposite, face parallel to the first one.

Dave

Doug Miller wrote:



Jointing and then
planing leaves a smoother surface than jointing alone.


Doug, not speaking for anyone else, but when I joint a board at the
proper rate, the results are nearly indistinguishable from what comes
out of the planer. Granted, if I go too fast, it's not as smooth.
Regardless, sanding or scraping is required for top notch results, so I
don't see why it's necessary to run the jointed face through the planer
unless one is cleaning up some obvious problem visible after jointing.

Dave

"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
I don't see why this is the case.

Joint one side of the board flat. Using your properly aligned
fence, joint the adjoining side to be exactly perpendicular.
Now use THAT side to reference the next adjoining side to be
exactly perpendicular. Then you can use that to make the final
side perpendicular. Thus, all opposite sides would be
parallel to each other, just like a planer would do.


ONLY if you are working with stock 2 or 3" thick and about the same width.
Forget it for normal width boards.

Doug, not speaking for anyone else, but when I joint a board at the
proper rate, the results are nearly indistinguishable from what comes
out of the planer. Granted, if I go too fast, it's not as smooth.
Regardless, sanding or scraping is required for top notch results, so I
don't see why it's necessary to run the jointed face through the planer
unless one is cleaning up some obvious problem visible after jointing.

Dave

One reason to do it is to remove roughly equal amounts of stock from each
side of the board. In theory, this can mitigate some later movement.

-Steve

Ahh, right... that makes a lot of sense.

Chris Friesen wrote:

This just ensures that each corner along the edge is 90 degrees when
measured perpendicular to the edge. It doesn't ensure that the corners
along each *end* are also 90 degrees.

Thus, the board can taper from one end to the other, like a wedge.

Chris

A jointer is used to make 1 edge perpendicular to the other (given the fence
is set at 90')
Joint the face flat - then put that edge against the fence - then joint the
edge.

Then run it thru the planer to get the faces parallel then thru the tablesaw
to get the edges parallel.


"Jake" wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a new jointer. I never used on before. Not surprisingly, I'm
trying to mill some rough stock to make glued up panels. The stock
isn't that rough. I joint one edge straight, then put that edge
against the fence and do the faces of the board. Then I cut the other
edge on the table saw and joint that too. My problem is that the board
is not square when I'm done. The faces of the board are not exactly
parallel. In other words, one edge is slightly thicker than the other.
(I don't have a planer or I would use that.) I have checked the fence
with 3 different squares and it appears to be exactly at 90 degrees.
What am I doing wrong?

Your kidding, right?


"Mike Berger" wrote in message
...
I don't see why this is the case.

Joint one side of the board flat. Using your properly aligned
fence, joint the adjoining side to be exactly perpendicular.
Now use THAT side to reference the next adjoining side to be
exactly perpendicular. Then you can use that to make the final
side perpendicular. Thus, all opposite sides would be
parallel to each other, just like a planer would do.

Of course if the edges are significantly smaller than the
other surfaces, this could be difficult to do. Conversely,
if you're using fairly square stock, I don't see why you
shouldn't be able to get parallel opposite sides with just
a jointer.

Chuck Taylor wrote:

A jointer can't do the job of a planer. It can make the faces flat
but it can't make them parallel.

Stephen M wrote:

One reason to do it is to remove roughly equal amounts of stock from each
side of the board. In theory, this can mitigate some later movement.


Nice theory, but here's an guaranteed more accurate method to accomplish it:

1.) Joint ONE face flat.

2.) Put the jointed face down, as the board goes into a thickness planer.

After a pass or three, you can now alternate which face the planer cuts.
This will remove wood from both sides and keep the faces parallel.
Plane, flip, plane, flip, etc...

Barry

Stephen M wrote:

Doug, not speaking for anyone else, but when I joint a board at the
proper rate, the results are nearly indistinguishable from what comes
out of the planer. Granted, if I go too fast, it's not as smooth.
Regardless, sanding or scraping is required for top notch results, so I
don't see why it's necessary to run the jointed face through the planer
unless one is cleaning up some obvious problem visible after jointing.

Dave


One reason to do it is to remove roughly equal amounts of stock from each
side of the board. In theory, this can mitigate some later movement.

-Steve


I agree with you when I've got to remove more thickness from a board
when surface planing, than what came off at the jointer. Then I'll flip
the board over and surface plane the jointed face to even out material
removed from both sides. If I've jointed off "x" thickness with the
jointer, and then I'm going to plane off "x" thickness, there's no need
to plane both faces.

Dave

This is exactly what happened to my boards. They were slightly pyramid
shaped.

Thanks for all you advise. I guess I need a planer.

Jake wrote:
This is exactly what happened to my boards. They were slightly pyramid
shaped.

Thanks for all you advise. I guess I need a planer.

You "can" get parallel faces without a planer, but it requires more
skill than most of us have and more work than the rest are willing to
put out. Once you have a planer you'll wonder how you ever got along
without it.

DonkeyHody
"Don't ever wrestle with a pig. You'll both get muddy, but the pig
likes it."