Like most of you, I am careful to clean/wax my table saw whenever I use it
(or sometime more often depending on the weather) to keep the surface clean
and 'non-stick'. Now, I don't fish much anymore (stay with me here), but
recently went with my brother to the Texas gulf coast and in my old tackle
box was a "file knife" (a squid knife as we called them) that I had made
from a metal file some 35+ years ago. We didn't catch any keepers in case
you're wondering, but the knife still had a descent edge from whenever the
last time I sharpened it, and I can't really remember when that was. In any
case, that file knife was treated with generic gun bluing agent when it was
made - after grinding, sanding, and rough sharpening. After 35+ years and
plenty of uses this file knife had minimal rust (oxidation) other than on
the sharpened edge surface and had required no virtually no care over time,
even after a number of trips to both fresh and salt water. This caused me
to wonder how gun bluing (an acid of sorts, I believe) might work on a cast
tablesaw surface. For the record, I'm not about to experiment with my own
table saw :-), but was wondering if any of you good people have done this.
If so, I'm curious how it has or has not worked out, and any other comments
you might have

Dave wrote:

This caused me to wonder how gun bluing (an acid of sorts, I believe) might
work on a cast tablesaw surface.

Lots of "gun blue" recipes out there. In general they add minimal rust
resistance and they don't take kindly to cast iron (rather than steel).


If you're looking for rust resistance from blueing, then you'll be
wanting a process a bit more complex than the usual selenium salts in
methanol from Bob's Hunt'n Shootin' Supplies (and that's a thread for
another day). Besides which Birchwood Casey's blue is one of the worst
I've used - even Liberon's is better.

Blueing, certainly is not a rust preventative. It is a coating primarily to
obscure reflection, and give a more palatable color then a stark metal
finish.





"Dave" wrote in message
...
Like most of you, I am careful to clean/wax my table saw whenever I use it
(or sometime more often depending on the weather) to keep the surface
clean
and 'non-stick'. Now, I don't fish much anymore (stay with me here), but
recently went with my brother to the Texas gulf coast and in my old tackle
box was a "file knife" (a squid knife as we called them) that I had made
from a metal file some 35+ years ago. We didn't catch any keepers in case
you're wondering, but the knife still had a descent edge from whenever the
last time I sharpened it, and I can't really remember when that was. In
any
case, that file knife was treated with generic gun bluing agent when it
was
made - after grinding, sanding, and rough sharpening. After 35+ years and
plenty of uses this file knife had minimal rust (oxidation) other than on
the sharpened edge surface and had required no virtually no care over
time,
even after a number of trips to both fresh and salt water. This caused me
to wonder how gun bluing (an acid of sorts, I believe) might work on a
cast
tablesaw surface. For the record, I'm not about to experiment with my own
table saw :-), but was wondering if any of you good people have done this.
If so, I'm curious how it has or has not worked out, and any other
comments
you might have

*Real* blueing (not the kind out of a bottle) actually is a fairly
good rust barrier. On the down side, it requires dunking the material
into hot vats of caustic liquids. I suspect this would do wonders for
the flatness of a table saw surface, not to mention the general
difficulty of dunking your table saw.
PK

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:09:15 GMT, "HMFIC-1369"
Baa wrote:

Blueing, certainly is not a rust preventative. It is a coating primarily to
obscure reflection, and give a more palatable color then a stark metal
finish.





"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
Like most of you, I am careful to clean/wax my table saw whenever I use it
(or sometime more often depending on the weather) to keep the surface
clean
and 'non-stick'. Now, I don't fish much anymore (stay with me here), but
recently went with my brother to the Texas gulf coast and in my old tackle
box was a "file knife" (a squid knife as we called them) that I had made
from a metal file some 35+ years ago. We didn't catch any keepers in case
you're wondering, but the knife still had a descent edge from whenever the
last time I sharpened it, and I can't really remember when that was. In
any
case, that file knife was treated with generic gun bluing agent when it
was
made - after grinding, sanding, and rough sharpening. After 35+ years and
plenty of uses this file knife had minimal rust (oxidation) other than on
the sharpened edge surface and had required no virtually no care over
time,
even after a number of trips to both fresh and salt water. This caused me
to wonder how gun bluing (an acid of sorts, I believe) might work on a
cast
tablesaw surface. For the record, I'm not about to experiment with my own
table saw :-), but was wondering if any of you good people have done this.
If so, I'm curious how it has or has not worked out, and any other
comments
you might have

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Like most of you, I am careful to clean/wax my table saw whenever I use it
(or sometime more often depending on the weather) to keep the surface
clean
and 'non-stick'.
snipped
This caused me
to wonder how gun bluing (an acid of sorts, I believe) might work on a
cast
tablesaw surface. For the record, I'm not about to experiment with my own
table saw :-), but was wondering if any of you good people have done this.
If so, I'm curious how it has or has not worked out, and any other
comments
you might have




Gun blue offers some protection in that it is a controlled surface
oxidation, which inhibits further oxidation/rust. The benefit is about
equal to a nice patina that only time can achieve.

A generally available treatment is black oxide, a process available in most
industrial cities. It is similar in process, if not color, to gun blue. In
fact, some gun 'blue' is closer to black in color.

Contact a black oxide processor and discuss the process, it's benefits, how
it works on cast iron, and get their opinion on whether the heat of the
solution is enough to warp your table.

Don't waste your time on "cold blue" applications.

--
********
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com

Dave wrote:
Like most of you, I am careful to clean/wax my table saw whenever I use it
(or sometime more often depending on the weather) to keep the surface clean
and 'non-stick'. Now, I don't fish much anymore (stay with me here), but
recently went with my brother to the Texas gulf coast and in my old tackle
box was a "file knife" (a squid knife as we called them) that I had made
from a metal file some 35+ years ago. We didn't catch any keepers in case
you're wondering, but the knife still had a descent edge from whenever the
last time I sharpened it, and I can't really remember when that was. In any
case, that file knife was treated with generic gun bluing agent when it was
made - after grinding, sanding, and rough sharpening. After 35+ years and
plenty of uses this file knife had minimal rust (oxidation) other than on
the sharpened edge surface and had required no virtually no care over time,
even after a number of trips to both fresh and salt water. This caused me
to wonder how gun bluing (an acid of sorts, I believe) might work on a cast
tablesaw surface. For the record, I'm not about to experiment with my own
table saw :-), but was wondering if any of you good people have done this.
If so, I'm curious how it has or has not worked out, and any other comments
you might have


Don't know about your knife, might be some flim
flam there.

Bluing is nothing but controlled rust process and
it is not durable nor is it a very good rust
preventative. Maybe that's why England switch to
paint on the Enfields. Boards sliding over the
bluing will remove it rather quickly and lots of
other stuff will scratch it. You would be better
off with a phosphate process.

But best of all, you probably want to stick with
what the woodworkers in high humidity areas suggest.

If it would hurt your tablesaw, what do you think it would do to a rifle
barrel? Warped barrels are fine, right? Think about it. Hot bluing will not
change the shape or damage anything. In any case, hot bluing is a time
expedient, modern method. No need for heat unless you are trying for speed..

"PK" wrote in message
...
*Real* blueing (not the kind out of a bottle) actually is a fairly
good rust barrier. On the down side, it requires dunking the material
into hot vats of caustic liquids. I suspect this would do wonders for
the flatness of a table saw surface, not to mention the general
difficulty of dunking your table saw.
PK

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:15:48 GMT, "CW" wrote:

If it would hurt your tablesaw, what do you think it would do to a rifle
barrel? Warped barrels are fine, right? Think about it. Hot bluing will not
change the shape or damage anything. In any case, hot bluing is a time
expedient, modern method. No need for heat unless you are trying for speed..

"PK" wrote in message
.. .
*Real* blueing (not the kind out of a bottle) actually is a fairly
good rust barrier. On the down side, it requires dunking the material
into hot vats of caustic liquids. I suspect this would do wonders for
the flatness of a table saw surface, not to mention the general
difficulty of dunking your table saw.
PK

Good point about the heat involved and metal stresses. Hot bluing is
better than the cold blue solutions, and about the same as a more
natural browning process, as far as continuing rust protection is
concerned. That is, better than nothing, but not as good as other
treatments.
PK

It would appear that none of the nay-sayers have tried Brownell's
Oxphoblue. I've tried several finish types, and that's the only one
that came out well. Excellent in fact. Use several coats, one won't do
it, and probably not two.



JOAT
If it ain't broke - fix it 'til it is.
- Unknown

"J T" wrote in message
...
It would appear that none of the nay-sayers have tried Brownell's
Oxphoblue. I've tried several finish types, and that's the only one
that came out well. Excellent in fact. Use several coats, one won't do
it, and probably not two.





On the contrary, I have used it, and it is arguably the best of the breed.
And, that's kind of sad. I have had some good results, but even then the
color was not permanent.

I am leaving tomorrow for a week in WY chasing prairie goats. Had my custom
Mauser at the range last weekend looking it over. I did a modification to
the trigger guard about 15 years ago, and used the Brownell product to avoid
rebluing the guard (would be expensive for one small part). The color of
the blue has faded and I'm glad that it is on the bottom and not often seen.

Would be a waste of time on a TS table IMO.

--
********
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com

Gun Blue is not a "rust preventative" and never has been. Wasn't designed
for it, isn't used for it either. If you treat a blued fire arm like
stainless steel you'd get a rust bucket. There are other coatings designed
for that!

Take your S&W or Colt dip in a bucket o water and then tell me What a great
rust preventative it is!!!!


"PK" wrote in message
...
*Real* blueing (not the kind out of a bottle) actually is a fairly
good rust barrier. On the down side, it requires dunking the material
into hot vats of caustic liquids. I suspect this would do wonders for
the flatness of a table saw surface, not to mention the general
difficulty of dunking your table saw.
PK

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:09:15 GMT, "HMFIC-1369"
Baa wrote:

Blueing, certainly is not a rust preventative. It is a coating primarily
to
obscure reflection, and give a more palatable color then a stark metal
finish.





"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
Like most of you, I am careful to clean/wax my table saw whenever I use
it
(or sometime more often depending on the weather) to keep the surface
clean
and 'non-stick'. Now, I don't fish much anymore (stay with me here),
but
recently went with my brother to the Texas gulf coast and in my old
tackle
box was a "file knife" (a squid knife as we called them) that I had
made
from a metal file some 35+ years ago. We didn't catch any keepers in
case
you're wondering, but the knife still had a descent edge from whenever
the
last time I sharpened it, and I can't really remember when that was.
In
any
case, that file knife was treated with generic gun bluing agent when it
was
made - after grinding, sanding, and rough sharpening. After 35+ years
and
plenty of uses this file knife had minimal rust (oxidation) other than
on
the sharpened edge surface and had required no virtually no care over
time,
even after a number of trips to both fresh and salt water. This caused
me
to wonder how gun bluing (an acid of sorts, I believe) might work on a
cast
tablesaw surface. For the record, I'm not about to experiment with my
own
table saw :-), but was wondering if any of you good people have done
this.
If so, I'm curious how it has or has not worked out, and any other
comments
you might have

"HMFIC-1369" Baa wrote in message
news:AyhYe.19472$Yu2.15298@trnddc02...
Gun Blue is not a "rust preventative" and never has been. Wasn't designed
for it, isn't used for it either. If you treat a blued fire arm like
stainless steel you'd get a rust bucket. There are other coatings designed
for that!


Not a preventative - true. But it is intended for that purpose, primarily.
Oh, we like the blue/black color, it looks nice, but that was not the
original purpose. The process also adds the ability of the surface to take
and hold oil, better than bare steel.

No, I won't stick my guns in a bucket of water. I also would not want to
handle guns in a white metal state either. They would pick up fingerprint
rust spots much easier than blued pieces.

Ever wonder why heat treated allen cap bolts come with a black oxide
coating? It's because the heat treating process has removed all traces of
oil from the surface leaving them to start corroding immediately. Black
oxide is an inexpensive process that will slow the corrosion process AND
hold a coating of oil. Such bolts can also be zinc plated, but a post
plating baking process is required to prevent hydrogen embrittlement, which
adds cost.

So, in fact, the protection is modest at best, but is some protection
nonetheless.

Resources:
http://www.unibath.com/blackoxide.php3
http://www.allblackco-llc.com/

Incidentally, painting is one of the worst things you can do to a firearm.
The result will be rust UNDER the paint where you cannot treat with oil.
--
********
Bill Pounds
http://www.billpounds.com

Wed, Sep 21, 2005, 9:54am (EDT-3)
(Pounds=A0on=A0Wood) spoketh:
On the contrary, I have used it, and it is arguably the best of the
breed. And, that's kind of sad. I have had some good results, but even
then the color was not permanent. snip

I put about 7 coats on an old .43 rolling block, made a lovely
dark coat. But I've never seen "any" bluing where the color could be
considered permanent - unless maybe it was put in a museum, and never
handled. You want permanent, may something like black chrome. I don't
know how the .43 is getting along, had to sell it many years back.

As far as blue being rust resistant, some of you guys must be
living on another planet. Even stainless steel can corrode. You wipe
your guns down with a bit of oil every once in awhile, that's your rest
resistance. Sheesh. You might want to try browning, as that starts out
with a light coating of rust. Google it.

And, yeah, all bluing would do for a table saw is make extra work.






JOAT
The toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you will have to
kiss tomorrow.
- Unknown

"PK" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:15:48 GMT, "CW" wrote:
Good point about the heat involved and metal stresses. Hot bluing is
better than the cold blue solutions,

Better than the "instant cold blue". Not better than a good cold bluing job.
A good cold bluing job is at least the equal of hot bluing. The only reason
gun manufacturers don't use it is time.

The instant stuff is what I meant. Sorry I wasn't clear.
PK

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:52:48 GMT, "CW" wrote:


"PK" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 01:15:48 GMT, "CW" wrote:
Good point about the heat involved and metal stresses. Hot bluing is
better than the cold blue solutions,

Better than the "instant cold blue". Not better than a good cold bluing job.
A good cold bluing job is at least the equal of hot bluing. The only reason
gun manufacturers don't use it is time.

Parkerizing is a bit better than bluing at holding oils, but for a good table
surface (slick, rust-resistant), black chrome would work (certainly not easy
for the do-it-yourselfer)

-Bruce