Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old October 11th 04, 09:44 PM
Lars Stole
 
Posts: n/a
Default Impressions/Review of Craftsman Professional Table Saw

A Review of Craftsman's Professional cabinet saw (22124).

I received my Craftsman table saw a few days ago. These are my
preliminary thoughts on the saw.

First, let me explain my perspective and why I bought the Craftsman
22124. I am a woodworking enthusiast, taking courses on furniture
making, etc., in my spare time and learning all that I can about the
craft. (At the school where I am taking classes, I routinely use the
delta unisaws and an ulmia cross-cut saw, but I have not had experience
with other cabinet saws.) I wanted to purchase a high-end, used 50"
cabinet saw (e.g., unisaw or P66) and was prepared to pay much more
for it than the craftsman, but in my current shop situation I am forced
to work in small quarters (so 30" is preferred) and with only 110v.
This last requirement left me looking at contractor saws, hybrid sawa,
Grizzly's 1023S110 and the craftsman 22124. A review on the Griz
(24amp motor) indicated that a 2" piece of oak will trip a 20amp
breaker, so I ruled that option out. Looking at the contractor
saws, hybrids, and the Craftsman Professional cabinet saw left me with
the strong impression that the Craftsman+Biesemeyer fence was the best
value. In addition, I timed the purchase during the overlap of the
Sears credit card sale and Craftsman days to get the saw for $690!.
I figured that I could get a large fraction of that back when I sell
the saw in year and upgrade to a 3HP uinsaw and, in the meantime, I
would have a reasonable saw for weekend furniture making.

Here are my first impressions:

(1) Paying $49 to Sears for home delivery was worth every penny. These
guys got the boxes off the truck and positioned exactly where I wanted
them in my voltage-deficient garage.

(2) The packaging was very well done -- angle-iron framing with an
ample supply of plastic wrap and styrofoam.

(3) The fit and finish was OK, but not good. Surprisingly, given the
effort in packaging, the underlying parts were scratched and marred in
various places.

(4) The table saw was not aligned properly. The cast-iron table was
shifted forward almost 3/8" too far and was out of parallel by almost
a 1/16". One call to customer service, however, and I immediately
spoke to someone (Scott) who was very knowledgeable about the saw who
explained where the 4 table bolts were located. He also agreed that
the manual had a few errors and was busy writing version 2.0.

(5) The instructions for installing the Biesemeyer fence had a few
inaccuracies that were annoying. Customer service knew about the
errors and apologized.

(6) The rear splitter assembly is made of aluminum and the bolt in the
block was improperly threaded. After tightening it to the splitter
rod, I discovered a small spiral of aluminum that the bolt had cut
away. The splitter assembly will not securely attach at this point.
Customer service is sending me a replacement part.

(7) I have not yet obtained a feeler gauge to check the flatness of the
table. It is not perfect, however, but reasonably flat. The cast iron
table on my grizzly jointer (which I like very much) is in the same
category of flatness -- reasonable, but not perfect.

(8) The cast iron wings needed to be shimmed (I used masking tape) to
obtain a flat surface. This was relatively easy to do and is a problem
common to many saw manufacturers, so I don't hold that against
Craftsman.

(9) There is a small yellow circle of plastic in the middle of the
table with the writing "align-a-cut" that seems to serve no purpose
whatsoever. The instruction manual says nothing about it. Any ideas
how to use this?

(10) The craftsman 22124 is a true cabinet saw with motor mounted to
the cabinet with cast iron trunions. The Biesemeyer fence performs
flawlessly.

(11) Comparison to Delta unisaw. I grew up with Craftsman tools when
they were considered something great. Recently, craftsman products
(e.g., their previous line of cabinet table saws) have not performed
very well. I was encouraged by the news that the new Craftsman 22124
saw was designed and produced by Orion (run by some of the people who
left Delta in 1999 following the P-C merger). That said, even if this
is made by ex-Delta-folks, this is not a unisaw or of that caliber.
Most notably, it is a bit lighter and vibrates very slightly. The
trunions underneath the Craftsman do not seem as massive as the Delta
unisaw's. On the other hand, it costs less than half as much as the
Delta.

(12) Cutting power is surprisingly good. I cut through some 6/4 oak
without any problems. More surprisingly, I have a 18amp (2HP) Penn
State dust collector on the same circuit (that's 33amps in total) and
the 20-amp circuit breaker did not trip. Thus, either the table saw
or the dust collector were running far below their potential. My next
project calls for some 8/4 oak, so that will be the real test, I
suppose.

(13) The Lietz blade that is included seems fairly good. I have a WWII
and a set of Freud blades, but I will probably continue to use the
Lietz blade until it looses its sharpness (or I need something more
specialized).


IMHO, a table saw needs to be flat, heavy/low-vibration, powerful and
have a great fence. For what I want to do, 1.75HP is all that I need
most of the time, and the Biesemeyer fence is great. There is some
very slight vibration relative to the unisaws I know, but I suspect the
vibration is insignificant compared to the vibration in contractor and
hybrid saws.

I am very pleased with my purchase.








  #2   Report Post  
Old October 11th 04, 10:19 PM
Wilson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Maybe link belts for the vibration?
Re (9), the Align A Cut is used to indicate the exact cut line, so you can
set to it without going up close to the blade. You can make a cut, pull it
back, and scribe it on the plastic. I think some of them had a piece of
metal with setscrews, so you could set up for different blades.
Wilson
"Lars Stole" wrote in message
news:2004101115442775249%[email protected] ..
A Review of Craftsman's Professional cabinet saw (22124).

I received my Craftsman table saw a few days ago. These are my
preliminary thoughts on the saw.

First, let me explain my perspective and why I bought the Craftsman
22124. I am a woodworking enthusiast, taking courses on furniture
making, etc., in my spare time and learning all that I can about the
craft. (At the school where I am taking classes, I routinely use the
delta unisaws and an ulmia cross-cut saw, but I have not had experience
with other cabinet saws.) I wanted to purchase a high-end, used 50"
cabinet saw (e.g., unisaw or P66) and was prepared to pay much more
for it than the craftsman, but in my current shop situation I am forced
to work in small quarters (so 30" is preferred) and with only 110v.
This last requirement left me looking at contractor saws, hybrid sawa,
Grizzly's 1023S110 and the craftsman 22124. A review on the Griz
(24amp motor) indicated that a 2" piece of oak will trip a 20amp
breaker, so I ruled that option out. Looking at the contractor
saws, hybrids, and the Craftsman Professional cabinet saw left me with
the strong impression that the Craftsman+Biesemeyer fence was the best
value. In addition, I timed the purchase during the overlap of the
Sears credit card sale and Craftsman days to get the saw for $690!.
I figured that I could get a large fraction of that back when I sell
the saw in year and upgrade to a 3HP uinsaw and, in the meantime, I
would have a reasonable saw for weekend furniture making.

Here are my first impressions:

(1) Paying $49 to Sears for home delivery was worth every penny. These
guys got the boxes off the truck and positioned exactly where I wanted
them in my voltage-deficient garage.

(2) The packaging was very well done -- angle-iron framing with an
ample supply of plastic wrap and styrofoam.

(3) The fit and finish was OK, but not good. Surprisingly, given the
effort in packaging, the underlying parts were scratched and marred in
various places.

(4) The table saw was not aligned properly. The cast-iron table was
shifted forward almost 3/8" too far and was out of parallel by almost
a 1/16". One call to customer service, however, and I immediately
spoke to someone (Scott) who was very knowledgeable about the saw who
explained where the 4 table bolts were located. He also agreed that
the manual had a few errors and was busy writing version 2.0.

(5) The instructions for installing the Biesemeyer fence had a few
inaccuracies that were annoying. Customer service knew about the
errors and apologized.

(6) The rear splitter assembly is made of aluminum and the bolt in the
block was improperly threaded. After tightening it to the splitter
rod, I discovered a small spiral of aluminum that the bolt had cut
away. The splitter assembly will not securely attach at this point.
Customer service is sending me a replacement part.

(7) I have not yet obtained a feeler gauge to check the flatness of the
table. It is not perfect, however, but reasonably flat. The cast iron
table on my grizzly jointer (which I like very much) is in the same
category of flatness -- reasonable, but not perfect.

(8) The cast iron wings needed to be shimmed (I used masking tape) to
obtain a flat surface. This was relatively easy to do and is a problem
common to many saw manufacturers, so I don't hold that against
Craftsman.

(9) There is a small yellow circle of plastic in the middle of the
table with the writing "align-a-cut" that seems to serve no purpose
whatsoever. The instruction manual says nothing about it. Any ideas
how to use this?

(10) The craftsman 22124 is a true cabinet saw with motor mounted to
the cabinet with cast iron trunions. The Biesemeyer fence performs
flawlessly.

(11) Comparison to Delta unisaw. I grew up with Craftsman tools when
they were considered something great. Recently, craftsman products
(e.g., their previous line of cabinet table saws) have not performed
very well. I was encouraged by the news that the new Craftsman 22124
saw was designed and produced by Orion (run by some of the people who
left Delta in 1999 following the P-C merger). That said, even if this
is made by ex-Delta-folks, this is not a unisaw or of that caliber.
Most notably, it is a bit lighter and vibrates very slightly. The
trunions underneath the Craftsman do not seem as massive as the Delta
unisaw's. On the other hand, it costs less than half as much as the
Delta.

(12) Cutting power is surprisingly good. I cut through some 6/4 oak
without any problems. More surprisingly, I have a 18amp (2HP) Penn
State dust collector on the same circuit (that's 33amps in total) and
the 20-amp circuit breaker did not trip. Thus, either the table saw
or the dust collector were running far below their potential. My next
project calls for some 8/4 oak, so that will be the real test, I
suppose.

(13) The Lietz blade that is included seems fairly good. I have a WWII
and a set of Freud blades, but I will probably continue to use the
Lietz blade until it looses its sharpness (or I need something more
specialized).


IMHO, a table saw needs to be flat, heavy/low-vibration, powerful and
have a great fence. For what I want to do, 1.75HP is all that I need
most of the time, and the Biesemeyer fence is great. There is some
very slight vibration relative to the unisaws I know, but I suspect the
vibration is insignificant compared to the vibration in contractor and
hybrid saws.

I am very pleased with my purchase.









  #3   Report Post  
Old October 11th 04, 10:30 PM
Charlie Self
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Wilson notes:

Maybe link belts for the vibration?


No. Multipoly, very flexible but no linked. Pulleys are machined, of course, or
the belt wouldn't work.

Charlie Self
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for
selfishness." John Kenneth Galbraith
  #4   Report Post  
Old October 11th 04, 11:59 PM
Leon
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Wilson notes:

Maybe link belts for the vibration?


No. Multipoly, very flexible but no linked. Pulleys are machined, of
course, or
the belt wouldn't work.



Multipoly? Is that anything like an automotive timing belt or serpentine
fan belt?


  #5   Report Post  
Old October 12th 04, 01:25 AM
Charlie Self
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Leon asks:

No. Multipoly, very flexible but no linked. Pulleys are machined, of
course, or
the belt wouldn't work.



Multipoly? Is that anything like an automotive timing belt or serpentine
fan belt?


It might be. Several Vs off a very flexible belt's underside fit into matching
grooves on the pulleys. Helps a lot in attaining smoothness, and these new
Craftsman saws are very smooth.

Charlie Self
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for
selfishness." John Kenneth Galbraith


  #6   Report Post  
Old October 12th 04, 02:58 AM
Anthony VanCampen
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:27 -0500, Lars Stole wrote:
(9) There is a small yellow circle of plastic in the middle of the
table with the writing "align-a-cut" that seems to serve no purpose
whatsoever. The instruction manual says nothing about it. Any ideas
how to use this?


Yup,
If you need to make several cuts of the same type. After the first one,
carefully pull the piece back and make a pencil mark on the disk. Now you
can align to that mark and all the pieces will be cut the same way. Or
you can use it to set the kerf width for the blade on both sides, useful
if you are making cuts with the blade tilted. Make a cut from each side of
the blade, mark the edges and you can see your kerf width.

Used to be in the Manual, oops, it was the old sears power tool know how
book. The pictures for the "Exact-I-Cut" show, Joe Woodbutcher, using a
miter gauge with a hold down to find the and mark the edges of the kerf.

And SWMBO thinks I'm crazy 'cause I hate to throw things out.
  #7   Report Post  
Old October 12th 04, 09:34 AM
mrmortise
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Lars and group
I posted to another thread, my thoughts about the saw, which
I own as well and really like. I do appreciate your thorough review. I
gave one months back as well. I do hope more woodworkers will see it's
merits! As for the yellow thingie.............Simply cut a board and
draw it back and then pencil a line along its edge in the yellow
plastic circle. You now have a guide to line up your cut on whichever
side of the blade should you so desire. Works well while using a dado
stack and odd set ups! Good luck with your saw. I love mine!


Happy with Sears,
Michael
  #8   Report Post  
Old October 12th 04, 02:58 PM
Leon
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Charlie Self" wrote in message
...
Leon asks:

No. Multipoly, very flexible but no linked. Pulleys are machined, of
course, or
the belt wouldn't work.



Multipoly? Is that anything like an automotive timing belt or serpentine
fan belt?


It might be. Several Vs off a very flexible belt's underside fit into
matching
grooves on the pulleys. Helps a lot in attaining smoothness, and these new
Craftsman saws are very smooth.


If they are narrow "V's" running the length of the belt is sounds like what
GM calls the serpentine belt. Very flexible and lots of surface contact
area. IIRC Powermatic uses two of these on the PM 666


  #9   Report Post  
Old October 12th 04, 03:20 PM
Charlie Self
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Leon responds:


If they are narrow "V's" running the length of the belt is sounds like what
GM calls the serpentine belt. Very flexible and lots of surface contact
area. IIRC Powermatic uses two of these on the PM 666


Sounds similar to identical. But you don't want to bring a model 666 down here
to Fundamentalist country.

Charlie Self
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind
simultaneously, and accepting both of them." George Orwell
  #10   Report Post  
Old October 12th 04, 04:44 PM
Andy Dingley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:58:36 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

If they are narrow "V's" running the length of the belt is sounds like what
GM calls the serpentine belt.


Serpentine belts are polygroove, but not all polygrooves are
serpentine.

A serpentine belt can have a flat pulley running on the back of it,
and can use this to deliver power (rather than just being a
tensioner).

If you use a non-serpentine belt as one, there's a risk of rapid wear
on the back and exposing the tensile cords. These don't like surface
wear at all, then your belt breaks.

--
Smert' spamionam


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Craftsman table saw Woodworking 16 July 29th 04 04:16 PM
Old Craftsman Table Saw Motor Magnusfarce Home Repair 15 January 2nd 04 07:49 PM
Building an extension table. Rich Woodworking 2 July 18th 03 12:11 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2021 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"

 

Copyright © 2017