My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.

In article .com, "gregj" wrote:
My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?

Speaking as the current owner of a stone veneer house in which some
knuckleheaded previous owner installed a window air conditioner through the
wall, my advice is -- don't. It will look like s**t, and some future owner of
that home will curse the day you were born. Yeah, I know, you're talking about
a garage, which isn't quite as important, but it will still look like s**t.

Surely there are windows somewhere in your garage. Can't you put a small A/C
through one of the windows?

Have you looked into portable units?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article .com, "gregj" wrote:

My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?


Speaking as the current owner of a stone veneer house in which some
knuckleheaded previous owner installed a window air conditioner through the
wall, my advice is -- don't. It will look like s**t, and some future owner of
that home will curse the day you were born. Yeah, I know, you're talking about
a garage, which isn't quite as important, but it will still look like s**t.

Surely there are windows somewhere in your garage. Can't you put a small A/C
through one of the windows?

Have you looked into portable units?


Portable units don't work with a flip. I know because I have one in my
garage. It blows cold air, but it doesn't drop the garage temperature
any. Look into the mini-split units. I think they would be nice.

Not a single window in the place.

What is a mini split unit?

"gregj" wrote in message
oups.com...
Not a single window in the place.

What is a mini split unit?


i just put one in my garage. the only thru wall penetration is a 4" diameter
hole.

the compressor sits outside, the lineset goes through the hole, and the rest
of a/c unit gets mounted on the wall somewhere high up.

These were originally designed for cooling computer rooms, but not are
supplied by several manufacturers for residential use. They effectively
cool one room (like a garage or a framed in carport). The compressor is
housed in a weather-tight unit that is mounted on a pad outside; the
evaporator is mounted with a blower/air handler/filter on a wall or in
ceiling mounted unit that goes on the inside of the room being cooled. The
power/controls/refrigerant pass though lines that require only a single 2
1/2 inch hole through the wall. Thus the name "split." See
http://www.master.ca/en/products/cards/83.html for the Samsung unit - which
is essentially like everyone else's model. They are rated from about 3/4
ton up (thus the name "mini").

But....they are not cheap compared to a window unit. The units sell for
about $1000. I am having one installed in an
framed-in-patio-converted-to-an-exercise-room and got estimates for unit and
installation from $1,800 to about $3,000. Suppliers will not sell to
someone who is not an installer since the units have to be connected and
charged with Freon on site.

If your shop creates a lot of dust, noeither a thru-the-wall or a mini-split
unit will do much filtering. You will need a dust removal unit to keep from
cleaning the evaporator all the time.


"gregj" wrote in message
oups.com...
Not a single window in the place.

What is a mini split unit?

on 8/18/2005 5:55 PM Charles Spitzer said the following:
"gregj" wrote in message
oups.com...

Not a single window in the place.

What is a mini split unit?

i just put one in my garage. the only thru wall penetration is a 4" diameter
hole.

the compressor sits outside, the lineset goes through the hole, and the rest
of a/c unit gets mounted on the wall somewhere high up.

They are nice but they are also expensive.

Rather than dismiss the thru-wall installation (which can be
accommodated with just about any decent window unit) outright, I would
suggest considering just where this penetration will occur.

If the garage is detached and set back from the house, who really cares
if the back wall of the garage is "marred" by a compressor unit sticking
its nose into the backyard. Don't think I'd want it on the front or
side of the garage where 1) I'd have to look at it constantly or 2) have
the sound of the unit directed towards my house or deck but otherwise...

I put one in my garage shop earlier this year and did a through wall to
the rear. No windows back there and even if I'd had a stone veneer
that's where it would have gone.

It does seem a shame to disturb the brick veneer but consider all the
possibilities before ruling it out. Weigh them against the cost of the
split unit in your shop AND still having to penetrate a wall for the
lineset and power AND siting a compressor unit on the ground adjacent to
that nice stone veneer.

On 18 Aug 2005 15:21:14 -0700, the opaque "gregj"
clearly wrote:

My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.

A concrete-cutting blade on your circular saw (or a rental unit
if you don't want to ruin your saw) might carve the stones out
of the way for you. Then a sawzall would demo the rest of the
wall. DO check with both close neighbors and your local city
zoning requirements before you make that cut, though. If it
directs the hot air toward the neighbor, it could be a problem.


-----------------------------------------
Jack Kevorkian for Congressional physician!
http://www.diversify.com Wondrous Website Design
=================================================

On 18 Aug 2005 15:21:14 -0700, "gregj" wrote:

My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.

Mitsubishi is advertising some units which might be of use.

Mark

gregj wrote:
Not a single window in the place.


As it happens, I have the exact same problem. Tomorrow I've got a guy coming to
the house to install a totally new heat pump. Looking at the duct work that
already cuts through the garage, I asked if we could tap in somehow. So that's
what's going to happen, along with the installation of some sort of valve so I
can cut off the flow when I'm not actually working out there.

We did the same thing when my father wanted to cool the closet under the stairs
in his garage so he could store wine there. I pointed out the ductwork that
went right by it and asked if it could be tapped. The rest is history... works
great for him.

Do you have any ductwork for your preexisting AC system out there?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

If openings in the walls look that bad, your whole house must look like
****, what with all those windows. You do have windows don't you?

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
t...
Speaking as the current owner of a stone veneer house in which some
knuckleheaded previous owner installed a window air conditioner through
the
wall, my advice is -- don't. It will look like s**t, and some future owner
of
that home will curse the day you were born. Yeah, I know, you're talking
about
a garage, which isn't quite as important, but it will still look like
s**t.

As it happens, I have the exact same problem. Tomorrow I've got a guy coming to
the house to install a totally new heat pump. Looking at the duct work that
already cuts through the garage, I asked if we could tap in somehow. So that's
what's going to happen, along with the installation of some sort of valve so I
can cut off the flow when I'm not actually working out there.

We did the same thing when my father wanted to cool the closet under the stairs
in his garage so he could store wine there. I pointed out the ductwork that
went right by it and asked if it could be tapped. The rest is history... works
great for him.

Do you have any ductwork for your preexisting AC system out there?


I originally tried tapping into my main A/C duct work but it didn't work
well. It didn't help any. In fact, it was worse than the portable
unit. The problem with tapping off a duct into your garage is that the
air being blown from the house air into the garage has to get back into
the house somehow. Unless you have a cold air return from your garage
to your house you won't get much airflow. And if you do have one, you
are probably violating some building code and are sucking car fumes and
dust into your house.

My portable unit doesn't do much good for similar reasons. It blows hot
air out into my attic currently, but it has to suck in air into my
garage through any cracks in the walls to replace it. This results in
it not working so great. I am playing around with modifying the housing
so that I can pipe in air from outside into the portable A/C. My first
effor didn't do any good because I was piping the air in from the hot
attic so it lowered it's cooling capability by about 10 degrees. Next I
am going to rig some pipe from the cooler outside air with the help of
an inline duct fan. If that doesn't work then I will give up with the
portable A/C unit. It is a 12000 BTU unit so it should be able to keep
the garage sort of cool I would think.

If my HOA would allow it I would knock a hole in a wall and put in the
biggest window unit I could find.

Build a nice roomy wooden louvered cover for it like they used to do on old
cabin motels . . .




"gregj" wrote in message
oups.com...
My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.

In article et, "CW" wrote:
If openings in the walls look that bad, your whole house must look like
****, what with all those windows. You do have windows don't you?

You really do have a talent for missing the point sometimes.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
et...
Speaking as the current owner of a stone veneer house in which some
knuckleheaded previous owner installed a window air conditioner through
the
wall, my advice is -- don't. It will look like s**t, and some future owner
of
that home will curse the day you were born. Yeah, I know, you're talking
about
a garage, which isn't quite as important, but it will still look like
s**t.





--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Greg,

It is my opinion that cutting a hole in the shop wall for the installation
of an A/C unit my deserve some consideration. Once the hole is cut you have
to live with it. If the A/C unit you install lasts say for 10 or so years
then burns out the compressor you are faced with finding a replacement A/C
of the same dimensions. As time goes by, units are becoming more efficient
and smaller in size so finding the exact size you need may be a problem,
then you are stuck with the hole or trying to fit in a smaller unit and
filling the gap with something.

You might want to shop around for a good price on a central A/C unit, new or
perhaps the local A/C dealer has a "take out" where someone has upgraded
that you could purchase reasonable. Then the only holes you have to deal
with are the refrigerant lines and the power/control cables.

For what it's worth, that's my opinion.... and I'm sticking with it !

Don Dando



"gregj" wrote in message
oups.com...
My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.

Portable units don't work with a flip. I know because I have one in my
garage. It blows cold air, but it doesn't drop the garage temperature
any. Look into the mini-split units. I think they would be nice.


Portables work great. My guess is you need more of them!
The problem with most portables is size, most are pretty small, plus you
need to have some opening in the building to exhaust the heat from them.
Greg

Well, while everyone is weighing in here...

Remember if you cut your stone you must header off one way or another
over the hole. The stone you leave over the unit must be supported as
are your windows, doors, etc. You can get the stone out with careful
demo and actually leave the stone above the hole for the unit.

But without a header (usually some angle iron), one day you will come
home and it will all be in the yard. You cannot canitlever rock
unsupported. Remember too, that you must header off your inside wall
as well. Then of course there is a problem to consider if you have to
remove some of the wall support straps that attach the stone wall to
the wooden frame wall.

To prevent misunderstanding, I know you can use stone for vaulted
ceilings, etc. without any lintel or any other kind of visisble support
underneath. But keep in mind in those instances it was originally laid
that way by keying in the stones to support one another. He is talking
about chopping a hole in the existing wall.

On another tact, one of my buddies bought a free standing unit (on
wheels!) at Sam's club and it works quite nicely. It is 10,000 btus,
and uses the air from the room, and only needs a six or eight inch
exhaust which he poked a hole in his wall to accomodate. You could
easily put this unit in your shop and exhaust up to the attic.

Robert

"gregj" wrote in message
My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall.

With all the suggestions you're getting, thought I'd offer one more. Since
you don't have any windows, why not put one in? For those days when an air
conditioner is not necessary (if there are any) air flow just by itself goes
a long way to cooling. After that you can decide if you want a window
mounted air conditioner or one of those portable units.

On 18 Aug 2005 15:21:14 -0700, "gregj" wrote:

My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.

I just installed a 17,500 BTU unit in a 25x25 garage. It's stucco
outside, insulated it with Reflectix then sheet rocked and painted.

The stucco was not a problem, used a Makita hand held grinder with a
diamond blade, that should go through your stone veneer without a
problem. After I got through the stucco, which took all of 5 minutes,
I cut through the rest with a Sawzall.

Frame out inside firstfor the A/C then drill a hole in each corner to
the outside so you can mark the cutout, no big problem. Picked up the
A/C on EBAY for $325 including shipping, it's a new Frigidare unit.
Local price, plus tax, would be close to $600.

I live in AZ, have the A/C set at 76 degrees and it cycles on and off
as it should even on the hottest days.

Lou

Upscale wrote:
"gregj" wrote in message
My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall.

With all the suggestions you're getting, thought I'd offer one more. Since
you don't have any windows, why not put one in? For those days when an air
conditioner is not necessary (if there are any) air flow just by itself goes
a long way to cooling. After that you can decide if you want a window
mounted air conditioner or one of those portable units.

You can add to the uses of a window the fact that if the AC unit wears
out in the future, you can be sure newly developed AC units can still
easily be fitted into the window. Through-the-wall units need to fit a
similar sized sleeve. A friend just had to replace a TTW unit in one of
his rental homes. After pricing new ones, he got the whole system
replaced with a heat pump and had the hole closed up. Not that much
more costly and a lot more effective.

Don Dando wrote:
Greg,

It is my opinion that cutting a hole in the shop wall for the installation
of an A/C unit my deserve some consideration. Once the hole is cut you have
to live with it. If the A/C unit you install lasts say for 10 or so years
then burns out the compressor you are faced with finding a replacement A/C
of the same dimensions. As time goes by, units are becoming more efficient
and smaller in size so finding the exact size you need may be a problem,
then you are stuck with the hole or trying to fit in a smaller unit and
filling the gap with something.

You might want to shop around for a good price on a central A/C unit, new or
perhaps the local A/C dealer has a "take out" where someone has upgraded
that you could purchase reasonable. Then the only holes you have to deal
with are the refrigerant lines and the power/control cables.

For what it's worth, that's my opinion.... and I'm sticking with it !

Don Dando



"gregj" wrote in message
oups.com...

My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.




I've got a 13,600 BTU 115V through the wall a/c that has been in
operation since 1971. It's a Montgomery Wards Signature branded unit
that I picked up to cool an uninsulated military housing duplex basking
in the northern California sun. I don't know how long the newer units
will last but who would have thought an a/c would be working fine after
34 years? I've also got a transistor radio that works well that I
bought in 'Nam.

Dave

Lou wrote:

On 18 Aug 2005 15:21:14 -0700, "gregj" wrote:


My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.


I just installed a 17,500 BTU unit in a 25x25 garage. It's stucco
outside, insulated it with Reflectix then sheet rocked and painted.

The stucco was not a problem, used a Makita hand held grinder with a
diamond blade, that should go through your stone veneer without a
problem. After I got through the stucco, which took all of 5 minutes,
I cut through the rest with a Sawzall.

Frame out inside firstfor the A/C then drill a hole in each corner to
the outside so you can mark the cutout, no big problem. Picked up the
A/C on EBAY for $325 including shipping, it's a new Frigidare unit.
Local price, plus tax, would be close to $600.

I live in AZ, have the A/C set at 76 degrees and it cycles on and off
as it should even on the hottest days.

Lou
I easily went through stucco with a $12 diamond blade from HD. I'd
always thought those blades were tres expensive until I actually LOOKED
at them in the Borg. It's a 4-1/2" blade, and I used it in a Makita
cordless saw that takes 6-1/2" blades, so the diamond blade is capable
of cutting approximate 1 inch, which is a bit over what I needed for the
stucco. It cut very easily. anyone attempting this: WEAR WELL FITTED
GOGGLES!

Is your unit 220V?

Dave

"David" wrote in message
...
Lou wrote:

On 18 Aug 2005 15:21:14 -0700, "gregj" wrote:


My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.


I just installed a 17,500 BTU unit in a 25x25 garage. It's stucco
outside, insulated it with Reflectix then sheet rocked and painted. The
stucco was not a problem, used a Makita hand held grinder with a
diamond blade, that should go through your stone veneer without a
problem. After I got through the stucco, which took all of 5 minutes,
I cut through the rest with a Sawzall.

Frame out inside firstfor the A/C then drill a hole in each corner to
the outside so you can mark the cutout, no big problem. Picked up the
A/C on EBAY for $325 including shipping, it's a new Frigidare unit.
Local price, plus tax, would be close to $600.

I live in AZ, have the A/C set at 76 degrees and it cycles on and off
as it should even on the hottest days.

Lou
I easily went through stucco with a $12 diamond blade from HD. I'd always
thought those blades were tres expensive until I actually LOOKED at them
in the Borg. It's a 4-1/2" blade, and I used it in a Makita cordless saw
that takes 6-1/2" blades, so the diamond blade is capable of cutting
approximate 1 inch, which is a bit over what I needed for the stucco. It
cut very easily. anyone attempting this: WEAR WELL FITTED GOGGLES!

Is your unit 220V?

Dave

In my case, with a brick exterior, I put in a window on a windowless
wall. Then I bought a window unit (120V). While I was at it, I removed
all the sheetrock on the two exterior walls, added LOTS of electrical
outlets on a couple circuits, insulated those walls (they weren't),
rerocked,
plastered, painted bright white, and so on. I wound up with a very nice
package -- cools in the summer, stays relatively warm in the winter -- here
in suburban Dallas/Fort Worth (temps approaching 100F this week). In
fact, I'm in the middle of an AIR CONDITIONED project! The combination
of the window, white paint, and a lot of lights makes things nice, too.

By the way, fitting the bricks around the window, and adding a sill,
tested my skills as a mason, I want you to know! Rubbed my fingers
raw getting the mortar "just right."

Jim Stuyck

Find a "friendly" AC guy and ask about "returned units" or
special deals on a small split system heat pump.

A small split heat pump would look and be a
LOT better and you wouldn't have to disfigure the stone wall.

No fancy duct work, just dump the air directly into the shop
from inside unit.

Another "maybe", is put a unit on a stand and run it through
the gable end of the buidling. Not real pretty but not too
terribly bad looking.


gregj wrote:

My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.

Lots of suggestions and some cool insults too thank you.

I am going to check out a portable that I can vent into the attic or
through the wall first. If that doesnt look promising then I think the
suggestion of punching in a window is a good one and will do that.
Just hope all that stone above doesnt come crashing down on me before I
can get some angle iron up.

Thanks to all.

Don't do it. You won't be happy. Put that money toward a split unit if
you can.

gregj wrote:
Lots of suggestions and some cool insults too thank you.

I am going to check out a portable that I can vent into the attic or
through the wall first. If that doesnt look promising then I think the
suggestion of punching in a window is a good one and will do that.
Just hope all that stone above doesnt come crashing down on me before I
can get some angle iron up.

Thanks to all.

"User Example" wrote in message newsusNe.4867
Don't do it. You won't be happy. Put that money toward a split unit if
you can.

If my HOA would allow it I would knock a hole in a wall and put in the
biggest window unit I could find.

Where's your reasoning that a window unit won't suffice? The only
information you're going by is that you're not happy with the portable unit
you've got. And how do you reconcile the first statement above with the
second one you posted earlier in this thread?

Upscale wrote:

"User Example" wrote in message newsusNe.4867

Don't do it. You won't be happy. Put that money toward a split unit if
you can.


If my HOA would allow it I would knock a hole in a wall and put in the
biggest window unit I could find.


Where's your reasoning that a window unit won't suffice? The only
information you're going by is that you're not happy with the portable unit
you've got. And how do you reconcile the first statement above with the
second one you posted earlier in this thread?


gregj was just mentioning getting a PORTABLE unit; not a window unit.

Dave

"gregj" wrote in message

I am going to check out a portable that I can vent into the attic or
through the wall first. If that doesn't look promising then I think the
suggestion of punching in a window is a good one and will do that.

"David" wrote in message
gregj was just mentioning getting a PORTABLE unit; not a window unit.

He mentioned the possibility of both in the paragraph quoted above. My guess
is that he's looking for expediency at this point. Either way, I think he
has enough information to work with. All things being equal, I'd go with the
window, there's a number of advantages to having one. (probably some
disadvantages too such as break-ins) Greg will have to make up his own mind.

Buy a friedrich, their size is standard , has not changed for 20 years for
that reason

"Don Dando" wrote in message
...
Greg,

It is my opinion that cutting a hole in the shop wall for the installation
of an A/C unit my deserve some consideration. Once the hole is cut you
have
to live with it. If the A/C unit you install lasts say for 10 or so years
then burns out the compressor you are faced with finding a replacement A/C
of the same dimensions. As time goes by, units are becoming more
efficient
and smaller in size so finding the exact size you need may be a problem,
then you are stuck with the hole or trying to fit in a smaller unit and
filling the gap with something.

You might want to shop around for a good price on a central A/C unit, new
or
perhaps the local A/C dealer has a "take out" where someone has upgraded
that you could purchase reasonable. Then the only holes you have to deal
with are the refrigerant lines and the power/control cables.

For what it's worth, that's my opinion.... and I'm sticking with it !

Don Dando



"gregj" wrote in message
oups.com...
My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.

"gregj" wrote in message
oups.com...
My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.
3

I think that is going to look pretty bad on the outside. But if you have
already considered that or simply do not care. Go for it.
Alternatively, if the garage is reeeeel hot. Set yourself up a 10# block of
Ice on top of you TS. Point your fan at the Ice, and stand or sit on the
side of the Ice that is opposite of the fan. It really does work. ;~)

Not sure you want to suggest a heat pump. Cannot find where this house
is.
A heat pump in montana and n.dakota will not be of much help. A heat
pump will have a balance point about 33-34 degrees after that the
electric strip heat comes on.
Now if in arizona it should be of help.
Also I have not seen any one suggest that a heat load be done on the
building.
First of all he need a bigger A/C that you do with just wood siding on
it. He has a heat sink in the rock wall. That rock will hold heat a long
time.
There is no nice friendly A/C guys. At least in the afternoon. We are
all grumpy a__ SOB then from working in the heat repairing someone
unit. Catch us in the early morning.
Get some ideas for contractors in your area and see what one fits your
budget the best. Also get a reliable outfit. Because it will be your
grumpy a__ when it is not working right. And you want it to work in and
protect your tools from rust.
As some one here has said before.
Cry once when you buy it.

Another one against windows. How about doors? You do like doors, right?

"User Example" wrote in message
news
Don't do it. You won't be happy. Put that money toward a split unit if
you can.

gregj wrote:
Lots of suggestions and some cool insults too thank you.

I am going to check out a portable that I can vent into the attic or
through the wall first. If that doesnt look promising then I think the
suggestion of punching in a window is a good one and will do that.
Just hope all that stone above doesnt come crashing down on me before I
can get some angle iron up.

Thanks to all.

I was refering to the portable unit. I have nothing against window units.

Upscale wrote:
"User Example" wrote in message newsusNe.4867

Don't do it. You won't be happy. Put that money toward a split unit if
you can.


If my HOA would allow it I would knock a hole in a wall and put in the
biggest window unit I could find.


Where's your reasoning that a window unit won't suffice? The only
information you're going by is that you're not happy with the portable unit
you've got. And how do you reconcile the first statement above with the
second one you posted earlier in this thread?

In article et, "CW" wrote:
Another one against windows. How about doors? You do like doors, right?

Missing the point again. Are you doing that intentionally?

The objection is not to having openings in walls. The objection is to bashing
openings in stone veneer, where no opening was designed or intended. You can't
do that without it looking like s**t.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I'm not missing anything. You say this is impossible. I don't think so. Hope
you never decide to remodel. Tear it down and start over seems to be what
you are saying.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
m...
In article et, "CW"
wrote:
Another one against windows. How about doors? You do like doors, right?

Missing the point again. Are you doing that intentionally?

The objection is not to having openings in walls. The objection is to
bashing
openings in stone veneer, where no opening was designed or intended. You
can't
do that without it looking like s**t.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I've read quite a few messages in this thread. We've gone through the whole gamut of a/c options
the last few months. Here's what we tried, looked at, and ended up with. We're happy with it.
YMMV.

We've got a 3 car workshop. Supposed to hold 3 cars, but they're all parked in the driveway. We're
about 25 miles SW as the crow flies from downtown Houston. After suffering in shop temperatures up
to 106 along with the lovely Gulf Coast humidity over the years, SWMBO and I decided enough was
enough. We put 5 new circuits in the shop over the last couple years, insulated and sheet rocked
the walls and will get the last of the ceiling insulation up in the next week.

We started out with one of the portable units. I swiped the one we use in the bedroom to see how
well it would work. I vented the exhaust air into the garage, err, shop attic. The portable AC
helps when you are doing low movement work (sharpening for example) and can have the thing blowing
on one side of you all the time. The other side sweats. A single unit can't come close to cooling
the shop though. The exhaust air is something like 15-20% of the cooling air, so there is a lot of
infiltration into the room.

We then decided to buy a 2 ton window unit, install a window and then the unit. We ran into a
roadblock with the local Biddie Society (aka HOA). They implied we could be sued if we installed a
window unit where anyone could see it or hear it. That killed that idea. A window unit is the
cheapest way to go. Using some fans in the shop would move the cooling around. A friend of mine
has a workshop set up this way, and it works well for him. He isn't in thrall to a BS.

Next option we looked at was the wall mounted split system. Looked pretty impressive on paper but
expensive. Talked to our local AC repairman, and he advised against it due to installed cost ($2000
- $3000). He had only installed a couple of these systems, but was not very happy with them.
Apparently the unducted blower doesn't do a very good job of spreading the air efficiently. Again,
fans would help move the cooling around. He recommended a small 2 and a half ton standard unit for
$2500 fully installed with ducting. We went with that.

We have the return at one end of the shop, two ducts in the middle and two more ducts at the far
end. We keep the thermostat set around 85 when we're not out there, and drop it to 76-78 about 20
minutes before we plan to work in the shop. We love it. Even with all the rain of late, you can
tell the humidity (and rust) is way down in the shop. It will be even better when we get the last
of the ceiling done and the roll up doors weatherstripped.

One thing to think about with this system is the size and location of the return duct. You want it
in the least dusty area of the shop you can find. Make it as large as you can to give more filter
area. Even doing so we use pleated filters to keep as much dust out of the return as possible.
We've had to relocate some of our machines, especially the dust collector (5 micron bags). I may
scrounge a new blower and use a dead HEPA filter we have laying around to try to get some of the
finer dust. May get a new set of 1 micron bags for the collector too, when the wallet recovers.

We've got a 2-3 inch hole in the wall for the copper tubing and insulation, and a half inch hole
for the wire to the junction box. We ran all the pipes and wiring through the attic and behind
removable wall panels. We hope to retire in about three years, so it will be easy to take with us
unless we can sell the house to another woodworker/garage shop type person.

Extravagant? I guess. The new saw will have to wait another year or two. But it sure will be nice
to be able to go out there in June, July, August and September and make some sawdust without
dripping sweat all over the place. Until now, we pretty much gave up our shop time during the hot
months. The only real drawback to the a/c is that SWMBO's shirt no longer sticks to her body
contours nearly as often. I do miss that.

Speaking of SWMBO, when I met her, she already owned a table saw, workbench, router, and a good
selection of other power and hand tools. Her Dad was a craftsman, and saw no reason girls should
not be also. So when I say we are working in the shop, WE are working in the shop. We're in our
mid-50's and we insulate, wire, plumb, drywall, cut, saw, route, sand, stain and finish together.
She says I still know how to show a girl a good time. Gotta love a woman like that. I may be the
luckiest man alive, and it has nothing to do with the new a/c system.

Roy

On 18 Aug 2005 15:21:14 -0700, "gregj" wrote:

My shop is in a very hot garage and I need to air condition it. After
looking at some of my options it looks like a through the wall air
conditioner is probably the best. My problem is that there is a stone
veneer on the outside of the wall. Any suggestions on how to handle
that, or can you point me in the right direction for some advice?
Thanks.

Thanks for sharing this. I live in Austin and $2500 to make my garage
workable is a bit pricey but doable. I'll start saving now.


Roy wrote:
I've read quite a few messages in this thread. We've gone through the whole gamut of a/c options
the last few months. Here's what we tried, looked at, and ended up with. We're happy with it.
YMMV.

At these prices I think I might just build a shed way out back with a
window unit and get my garage back. I am in Austin too and have a
pretty steep slope in the back yard, but with a little sweat just might
pull this off.

Special thanks to Roy for sharing all that great information.

By the way does she have a sister?

"gregj" wrote in message
At these prices I think I might just build a shed way out back with a
window unit and get my garage back. I am in Austin too and have a
pretty steep slope in the back yard, but with a little sweat just might
pull this off.

Hell, if you want to keep cool, excavate into the slope. I'm sure that
several feet of that Texas dirt will keep much of the heat out.