I'm a little surprised a "name brand" cabinet maker would
use pocket screws for their face frames instead of something
more traditional, but they also use MDF for the sides by
default now (though they're at least rabbetted before being
stapled) unless you upgrade to plywood or wood...

Guess this means pocket screw jointery is now mainstream ;-)


ken

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:31:16 +0000, Ken Yee wrote:
I'm a little surprised a "name brand" cabinet maker would
use pocket screws for their face frames instead of something
more traditional,

Are you saying there's something wrong with pocket screws for
faceplates? They seem to work well for me...

Ken Yee wrote:

....
Guess this means pocket screw jointery is now mainstream ;-)

Been used in industrial production for years untold...

Are you saying there's something wrong with pocket screws for
faceplates?

Biscuits are faster and there isn't any "holes" to hurt the quality of your
work.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:31:16 +0000, Ken Yee
wrote:
I'm a little surprised a "name brand" cabinet maker would
use pocket screws for their face frames instead of something
more traditional,

Are you saying there's something wrong with pocket screws for
faceplates? They seem to work well for me...

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:50:20 -0400, Rumpty wrote:
Are you saying there's something wrong with pocket screws for
faceplates?

Biscuits are faster and there isn't any "holes" to hurt the quality of your
work.

They're not "faster" if you don't have a biscuit joiner...

pocket screws in production furniture is more than ok ....it is
standard practise.......the best feature about pocket screws over
biscuits, is no clamping and you do not have to wait untill the glue
drys...the screws act as the clamps until the glue sets....of cource
everyone wants hand cut mortise-tenons and dovetails but most people
are unwilling to pay the price
Mike

On 15 Jun 2005 09:12:13 -0700, wrote:
pocket screws in production furniture is more than ok ....it is
standard practise.......the best feature about pocket screws over
biscuits, is no clamping and you do not have to wait untill the glue
drys...

Well, if you're installing pocket screws without clamping, you're going
to have joints not line up.

the screws act as the clamps until the glue sets....

Right; being able to move on after the screws are in, is nice. "Just a
bit of glue until the screws dry" kind of thing.

Dave Hinz wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 09:12:13 -0700, wrote:
pocket screws in production furniture is more than ok ....it is
standard practise.......the best feature about pocket screws over
biscuits, is no clamping and you do not have to wait untill the glue
drys...

Well, if you're installing pocket screws without clamping, you're going
to have joints not line up.
....

Home shop, yes...production setups do it all at once, maybe even whole
frame semi- or even fully robotically....

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:21:10 -0500, Duane Bozarth wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 09:12:13 -0700, wrote:
pocket screws in production furniture is more than ok ....it is
standard practise.......the best feature about pocket screws over
biscuits, is no clamping and you do not have to wait untill the glue
drys...

Well, if you're installing pocket screws without clamping, you're going
to have joints not line up.

Home shop, yes...production setups do it all at once, maybe even whole
frame semi- or even fully robotically....

Well, sure, but they have a jig (which is effectively a clamp, no?), and
this is rec.woodworking, not pro.woodworking, so I didn't think that
would apply in any case?

Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:21:10 -0500, Duane Bozarth wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 09:12:13 -0700, wrote:
pocket screws in production furniture is more than ok ....it is
standard practise.......the best feature about pocket screws over
biscuits, is no clamping and you do not have to wait untill the glue
drys...

Well, if you're installing pocket screws without clamping, you're going
to have joints not line up.

Home shop, yes...production setups do it all at once, maybe even whole
frame semi- or even fully robotically....

Well, sure, but they have a jig (which is effectively a clamp, no?), and
this is rec.woodworking, not pro.woodworking, so I didn't think that
would apply in any case?

Well the thread started w/ a comment about a large manufacturer and
apparent unawareness on part of OP that the technique has been around
for a long time, so to me this seemed to be a "what the big boyz
do"-related topic from the git-go...

Of course, since I'm temporarily laid up (w/ a broken arm and bruised
ribs, needn't get into the "how" ), I'm sorta' looking for
entertainment...but the 1-hand wrong-hand typing is a pita!

imo, ymmv, $0.02, etc., ...

Dave Hinz wrote in news:3hb0b6Fg3jlsU1
@individual.net:

Are you saying there's something wrong with pocket screws for
faceplates? They seem to work well for me...

Nothing wrong w/ them at all. I thought they were mainly a
quick alternative to using biscuits since some folks here
despise them for "real" furniture because of the unsightly
holes ;-)

I was just a bit surprised that Thomasville would use them,
but expected them to be used by lower tier brands like
Mill's Pride. Of course, I was also surprised Thomasville
uses MDF back and side panels...


ken

Ken Yee wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote in news:3hb0b6Fg3jlsU1
@individual.net:

Are you saying there's something wrong with pocket screws for
faceplates? They seem to work well for me...

Nothing wrong w/ them at all. I thought they were mainly a
quick alternative to using biscuits since some folks here
despise them for "real" furniture because of the unsightly
holes ;-)

The difference between the "one-off" or very small production runs in
small single- or two-person shops and a large mass-market operation is
night and day. An operation that can be automated and a glue-dry time
eliminated is far more important in the production environment than
hiding a construction detail 90% of potential buyers will never notice
anyway...

I was just a bit surprised that Thomasville would use them,
but expected them to be used by lower tier brands like
Mill's Pride. Of course, I was also surprised Thomasville
uses MDF back and side panels...


Can't imagine why...as noted they're a large mass-merchandiser
struggling to meet price points just like everybody else...their
price-point may be somewhat above some, but most of their line at least
is in a very competitive market.

I think all that was said was misinterperted... 'is no clamping and you do
not have to wait untill the glue drys..." is simply that you don't have to
clamp it down for the glue to set................. and honestly if you have
a proper jig or work very accuratly you don't need to clamp anything with
the pocket screws. I set up a jig on my drill press, run through 20 or so
pieces align it and set the screws. Done!

"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:21:10 -0500, Duane Bozarth
wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

On 15 Jun 2005 09:12:13 -0700, wrote:
pocket screws in production furniture is more than ok ....it is
standard practise.......the best feature about pocket screws over
biscuits, is no clamping and you do not have to wait untill the glue
drys...

Well, if you're installing pocket screws without clamping, you're going
to have joints not line up.

Home shop, yes...production setups do it all at once, maybe even whole
frame semi- or even fully robotically....

Well, sure, but they have a jig (which is effectively a clamp, no?), and
this is rec.woodworking, not pro.woodworking, so I didn't think that
would apply in any case?

So does Ethen Allen -- and they did back in the 60's when as a kid I
did chores for my dad who owned a retail furniture store and sold Ethen
Allen. Anyone out there own Drexel Heritage or Pennsilvania House? I
bet they do too for some joints.

So?




Ken Yee wrote:
I'm a little surprised a "name brand" cabinet maker would
use pocket screws for their face frames instead of something
more traditional, but they also use MDF for the sides by
default now (though they're at least rabbetted before being
stapled) unless you upgrade to plywood or wood...

Guess this means pocket screw jointery is now mainstream ;-)


ken

I would bet that most serious woodworkers build better products that the
mainstram manufacturers do today. We are not in it for profit/loss but for
the sheer pride and beauty of producing a product that the mass
manufactureres would not even attempt in todays market. Hell, how can you
compete with the Wal-Mart crap being sold.

This is one of the very reasons I ventured into woodworking, I was tired of
the crap that I saw in so advertised respectable furniture stores and at
cabinet makers.

JAW


Ken Yee woke up and had the following words of wisdom ....:

I'm a little surprised a "name brand" cabinet maker would
use pocket screws for their face frames instead of something
more traditional, but they also use MDF for the sides by
default now (though they're at least rabbetted before being
stapled) unless you upgrade to plywood or wood...

Guess this means pocket screw jointery is now mainstream ;-)


ken

--
Theres a little man in my head, saying things better left unsaid.

Don't be...they were using pocket holes long before
Delta and Dewalt brought out the Handy/Andy pocket
hole cutters. I have seen furniture pieces at least
40 years old with pocket holes in them.


Ken Yee wrote:

I'm a little surprised a "name brand" cabinet maker would
use pocket screws for their face frames instead of something
more traditional,

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 01:31:02 GMT, JAW wrote:
I would bet that most serious woodworkers build better products that the
mainstram manufacturers do today. We are not in it for profit/loss but for
the sheer pride and beauty of producing a product that the mass
manufactureres would not even attempt in todays market. Hell, how can you
compete with the Wal-Mart crap being sold.

Right, which is the same reason I built my own house. Took longer,
saved money, and it's all done _right_.

Pocket hole screws were main stream in the 50's. It has only recently
become easy and affordable for the home owner to use them.


"Ken Yee" wrote in message
4.166...
I'm a little surprised a "name brand" cabinet maker would
use pocket screws for their face frames instead of something
more traditional, but they also use MDF for the sides by
default now (though they're at least rabbetted before being
stapled) unless you upgrade to plywood or wood...

Guess this means pocket screw jointery is now mainstream ;-)


ken

Since I went back and reread that post, pardon me
for making a complete idiot out of myself.

Neither Delta nor Dewalt makes a production pocket hole
cutter, BUT Kreg does... and they been using them in
furniture for a VERY long time.


Pat Barber wrote:

Don't be...they were using pocket holes long before
Delta and Dewalt brought out the Handy/Andy pocket
hole cutters. I have seen furniture pieces at least
40 years old with pocket holes in them.


Ken Yee wrote:

I'm a little surprised a "name brand" cabinet maker would
use pocket screws for their face frames instead of something
more traditional,

"Leon" wrote in message
...
Pocket hole screws were main stream in the 50's. It has only recently
become easy and affordable for the home owner to use them.

The use of pockets for screws is nothing new... used at least as early as
the 18th century. Mack Headley, master of the Colonial Williamsburg Cabinet
Shop, cut pockets with a gouge in the VCR tape "The Cabinetmaker, Crafting a
Card Table." He cut the pockets for screws to hold the top on.

John

On 15 Jun 2005 15:59:30 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:50:20 -0400, Rumpty wrote:
Are you saying there's something wrong with pocket screws for
faceplates?

Biscuits are faster and there isn't any "holes" to hurt the quality of your
work.

They're not "faster" if you don't have a biscuit joiner...

I suspect that Thomasville should be able to afford some biscuit joiners.
:-)




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Now that is a cool piece of info..I have never
heard of them being used that far back. There
really isn't much "new" stuff in woodworking.


John Grossbohlin wrote:


The use of pockets for screws is nothing new... used at least as early as
the 18th century. Mack Headley, master of the Colonial Williamsburg Cabinet
Shop, cut pockets with a gouge in the VCR tape "The Cabinetmaker, Crafting a
Card Table." He cut the pockets for screws to hold the top on.

John Grossbohlin wrote:


The use of pockets for screws is nothing new... used at least as early as
the 18th century. Mack Headley, master of the Colonial Williamsburg
Cabinet Shop, cut pockets with a gouge in the VCR tape "The Cabinetmaker,
Crafting a Card Table." He cut the pockets for screws to hold the top
on.


Did the tape still work when he was done?

I remember seeing pocket screws in the skirt of an antique table I was
restoring. Granted, they didn't have the fancy machines then, but the
technology isn't new.

Grant



Duane Bozarth wrote:

Ken Yee wrote:

...
Guess this means pocket screw jointery is now mainstream ;-)

Been used in industrial production for years untold...

"John Grossbohlin" wrote in
ink.net:

The use of pockets for screws is nothing new... used at least as early
as the 18th century. Mack Headley, master of the Colonial Williamsburg
Cabinet Shop

Wow. Pocket holes used way back in a cabinet shop that far back?
That makes them almost as cool as dovetails :-)


ken

"Ken Yee" wrote in message
4.166...
"John Grossbohlin" wrote in
ink.net:

The use of pockets for screws is nothing new... used at least as early
as the 18th century. Mack Headley, master of the Colonial Williamsburg
Cabinet Shop

Wow. Pocket holes used way back in a cabinet shop that far back?
That makes them almost as cool as dovetails :-)

I'm certain you wouldn't catch Mack making face frames with pocket screws
though... mortise and tenon for sure! For that matter I don't think you'd
find Mack doing any casework with pocket screws... ;-)

John

John