so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

I thought about folding the door first, bifold style, then sliding it
back into the pocket. I'm not sure how likely I am to find pocket
hardware that can accomodate this, and even if I do it will mean that
the bifold hinge is facing the room when it's open, which sounds pretty
ugly to me. knob placement is another issue with this configuration.

tambour doors is another option. they also need a place to go, which in
this case is the space behind the tv, which is needed for wire chase and
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....

"bridger" wrote in message
...
so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

I thought about folding the door first, bifold style, then sliding it
back into the pocket. I'm not sure how likely I am to find pocket
hardware that can accomodate this, and even if I do it will mean that
the bifold hinge is facing the room when it's open, which sounds pretty
ugly to me. knob placement is another issue with this configuration.

tambour doors is another option. they also need a place to go, which in
this case is the space behind the tv, which is needed for wire chase and
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....
tambour seem the way to go in this case .I would leave enough room between
the tambour door asd the back of the TV to bring the wires up from
below...mjh

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 07:59:43 -0700, bridger
wrote:

so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

I thought about folding the door first, bifold style, then sliding it
back into the pocket. I'm not sure how likely I am to find pocket
hardware that can accomodate this, and even if I do it will mean that
the bifold hinge is facing the room when it's open, which sounds pretty
ugly to me. knob placement is another issue with this configuration.

tambour doors is another option. they also need a place to go, which in
this case is the space behind the tv, which is needed for wire chase and
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....


Since you won't have the usual depth problem, I wonder if you couldn't
run the tambour into a box at the back of the carcase and have a space
between that box and the panel that will be penetrated for wires and
such.

Another interesting idea might be some panels that fold up on Soss
hinges and fit into a pocket on the side when open.

Interesting problem.

try running the tambour over the top of TV. There shouldn't be any
clearance problems in back , cause tambour will not go all the way down.
Been there, done this.

Ken



"bridger" wrote in message
...
so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

I thought about folding the door first, bifold style, then sliding it
back into the pocket. I'm not sure how likely I am to find pocket
hardware that can accomodate this, and even if I do it will mean that
the bifold hinge is facing the room when it's open, which sounds pretty
ugly to me. knob placement is another issue with this configuration.

tambour doors is another option. they also need a place to go, which in
this case is the space behind the tv, which is needed for wire chase and
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....

I remember a TOH from a few years back where Tommy
put a 42 inch plasma behind doors over a fireplace.

IIRC, they were bifold doors and folded on themselves
but did not slide into the wall.

Tambour seems the best option if the client likes that
look. Not sure I'd want that for an entertainment
center - rather have no doors.

FWIW

Lou

In article , bridger
wrote:

so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

I thought about folding the door first, bifold style, then sliding it
back into the pocket. I'm not sure how likely I am to find pocket
hardware that can accomodate this, and even if I do it will mean that
the bifold hinge is facing the room when it's open, which sounds pretty
ugly to me. knob placement is another issue with this configuration.

tambour doors is another option. they also need a place to go, which in
this case is the space behind the tv, which is needed for wire chase and
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....

In article ,
bridger wrote:
so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

I thought about folding the door first, bifold style, then sliding it
back into the pocket. I'm not sure how likely I am to find pocket
hardware that can accomodate this, and even if I do it will mean that
the bifold hinge is facing the room when it's open, which sounds pretty
ugly to me. knob placement is another issue with this configuration.

Bzzzt! check your design again.

bifold can have the hinge pins on the side against the TV screen.

e.g., like this, when 'partially' folded.

| : [[[ T V DISPLAY ]]] : |
* :...... ......: *
\\ // \\ //
\\ // \\ //
\\o// \\o//


First you fold the bi-fold allthe way up, then you push 'em back out of
the way.

guide pins on the top/bottom of the 'center' edges of the doors is
*highly* recommended. running in an L track, as shown by the 'dots'
in the graphic above.

An hinge alternative is SOSS 'invisible' hinges.

This kind of a design *is* a PITA to use, cuz you don't want the
flipper part to start sliding back until the bifold is *completely*
folded.

tambour doors is another option. they also need a place to go, which in
this case is the space behind the tv, which is needed for wire chase and
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....

tambour can _coil_ beside the TV, doesn't have to go 'behind' it.

Alternative is 'roll-top desk' style. where it 'goes away' on top of,
and maybe behind the set.

Could even go 'down', if the display is actually supported from the rear.
For real fun, you motorize it, tied to the TV going on/off. and a 'repeater'
for the remote, that will carry commands to the TV with the door closed.

bridger wrote:
so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

snip

At the risk of sounding blasphemous, not sure this is a good application
for wood.

How about a stage curtain concept that is perhaps 2'-3' wider than the
screen, operated by draw strings on one end, using a very heavy drapery
material?

Create a wooden box structure as a valance above to cover all the
operating hardware.

Just a thought.

Lew

"bridger" wrote in message news:bridger-
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....

Not yet mentioned is a fabric screen on a roller that rolls up or down to
reveal or hide the TV. There's electronic versions that are remotely
controlled. All the components are located in the vicinity of the roll
itself, so no interfering with rear electronics. These fabric screens can be
blank or have an image of some type on them.

How about going up like a garage door does?

Personal preference is a bifold that then slides into the sides like
most entertainment systems now.

Alan

Last Fall I built a base for my new 62 Mitsubishi DLP, and when we first
got it, SWMBO was a little nutty on the size of the thing being out
there all the time, but she got used to it. Anyway, i had toyed with
the idea of a "cabinet" with doors, and this set is about 16" deep IIRC.
The tambour doors seemed very logical because I had done something
very similar in a boat that had a teak-trimmed interior, building a
stereo cabinet with teak tambour doors that met in the middle.

Many of these new sets still need some circulation, but I think the
plasma type might get away without it. You ought to take a look at the
AV Forum where we have two dedicated threads; one for ready-made TV
stands and entertainment centers, and another (which I started) for
those who would build their own for pleasure or profit. Here's the main
link, go there and browse around:

http://www.avsforum.com/

Some of the electronics are delicate too, I equipped my set with a 640
watt APC backup system because the bulbs will die quicker if you have
shutdowns without a power-assisted cooldown from the internal cooling
system. Funny when we have power outages... everything goes dark in the
house but the TV stays on. I also bought some cable channel from
Rockler that keeps most of the cables in a long split-sided tube. Its
an informative site if you're considering making the plunge.

Mike

bridger wrote:
so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

I thought about folding the door first, bifold style, then sliding it
back into the pocket. I'm not sure how likely I am to find pocket
hardware that can accomodate this, and even if I do it will mean that
the bifold hinge is facing the room when it's open, which sounds pretty
ugly to me. knob placement is another issue with this configuration.

tambour doors is another option. they also need a place to go, which in
this case is the space behind the tv, which is needed for wire chase and
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....

Hi Mike,

I know this is off topic, but as I am in the process
of building an entertainemt center for some new
WS Plasma/DPL/LCD in the next year, I have run
into an interesting problem.

If I understand correctly (and I may be wrong), the DLP
and LCD units use bulbs that must/should be replaced
every 3000 hours or so (about a year?). About $200 to
$400 per bulb.

The plasma units, although more expensive initially,
have ratings for 50,000 hours.

If my math is ok, it seems to me that a plasma is a
better buy and better picture (deeper blacks etc) if
you intend to keep a set, say, 10 years.

Plasma for 10 years at (say) $6K = $6K.

DLP for 10 years = $3K + ($300/bulb x 10) = $6K (or more)
also - not counting aggrivation.

And plasma has a better picture.

Am I wrong here?

lou

In article , Mike
wrote:

Last Fall I built a base for my new 62 Mitsubishi DLP, and when we first
got it, SWMBO was a little nutty on the size of the thing being out
there all the time, but she got used to it. Anyway, i had toyed with
the idea of a "cabinet" with doors, and this set is about 16" deep IIRC.
The tambour doors seemed very logical because I had done something
very similar in a boat that had a teak-trimmed interior, building a
stereo cabinet with teak tambour doors that met in the middle.

Many of these new sets still need some circulation, but I think the
plasma type might get away without it. You ought to take a look at the
AV Forum where we have two dedicated threads; one for ready-made TV
stands and entertainment centers, and another (which I started) for
those who would build their own for pleasure or profit. Here's the main
link, go there and browse around:

http://www.avsforum.com/

Some of the electronics are delicate too, I equipped my set with a 640
watt APC backup system because the bulbs will die quicker if you have
shutdowns without a power-assisted cooldown from the internal cooling
system. Funny when we have power outages... everything goes dark in the
house but the TV stays on. I also bought some cable channel from
Rockler that keeps most of the cables in a long split-sided tube. Its
an informative site if you're considering making the plunge.

Mike

bridger wrote:
so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

I thought about folding the door first, bifold style, then sliding it
back into the pocket. I'm not sure how likely I am to find pocket
hardware that can accomodate this, and even if I do it will mean that
the bifold hinge is facing the room when it's open, which sounds pretty
ugly to me. knob placement is another issue with this configuration.

tambour doors is another option. they also need a place to go, which in
this case is the space behind the tv, which is needed for wire chase and
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....

loutent wrote in
:

snip
If my math is ok, it seems to me that a plasma is a
better buy and better picture (deeper blacks etc) if
you intend to keep a set, say, 10 years.

Plasma for 10 years at (say) $6K = $6K.

DLP for 10 years = $3K + ($300/bulb x 10) = $6K (or more)
also - not counting aggrivation.

And plasma has a better picture.

Am I wrong here?


Or look at it differently:

$3k now, plus a few bulb changes, and a new system at some point in the
future at lower prices and newer technology, vs:

$6k now, and keep it in spite of the tech changes.

One thing that has been pretty constant has been the silicon curve as
applied to consumer electronics. Prices fall, capabilities increase.

Broadband proliferates. And what were considered 'high speed
connections' 5 years ago are now not adequate for leading edge services
today, let alone tomorrow.

What we are still missing is access to quality content with a
sustainable economic model, in a world of TiVo and Napster-like
services.

Welcome to the future.

Patriarch

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:23:15 -0400, loutent wrote:

If I understand correctly (and I may be wrong), the DLP and LCD units use
bulbs that must/should be replaced every 3000 hours or so (about a year?).
About $200 to $400 per bulb.

The HID lamp used in these sets should be good for much more than 3,000 hours.
The service manual for my JVD I-DLA claims 5,000 hours.

3,000 hours in a year is over 8 hours per day. That's a lot of time in front
of a TV. You must have young kids at home.

AFAIK, you only need replace the lamp when it no longer fires. I am not aware
of any significant output fall-off with age in HID lamps.

The plasma units, although more expensive initially, have ratings for
50,000 hours.

Plasma displays begin to loose brightness as soon as you turn them on. The
life of the display is a matter of what's acceptable to you. You may become
unhappy with it much sooner than 50,000 hours.

DLP for 10 years = $3K + ($300/bulb x 10) = $6K (or more)
also - not counting aggrivation.

I can change the lamp in my JVD I-DLA from the front of the set (there is one
screw on the left side that has to be removed). Its a 5-minute job.

Don't know about the cost. It may come down in the future, too.

And plasma has a better picture.

Probably. But I've seen some pretty impressive-looking RPTVs, and prices on
them are falling faster than the same-size plasmas.

--
Art Greenberg
artg AT eclipse DOT net

Hi Art,

Thanks for this information. I am leaning
toward DLP since it seems to give more
bang for the buck. The pictures that I have
seen in the stores is pretty impressive in HD.

Lou

In article k.net,
Art Greenberg wrote:

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:23:15 -0400, loutent wrote:

If I understand correctly (and I may be wrong), the DLP and LCD units use
bulbs that must/should be replaced every 3000 hours or so (about a year?).
About $200 to $400 per bulb.

The HID lamp used in these sets should be good for much more than 3,000 hours.
The service manual for my JVD I-DLA claims 5,000 hours.

3,000 hours in a year is over 8 hours per day. That's a lot of time in front
of a TV. You must have young kids at home.

AFAIK, you only need replace the lamp when it no longer fires. I am not aware
of any significant output fall-off with age in HID lamps.

The plasma units, although more expensive initially, have ratings for
50,000 hours.

Plasma displays begin to loose brightness as soon as you turn them on. The
life of the display is a matter of what's acceptable to you. You may become
unhappy with it much sooner than 50,000 hours.

DLP for 10 years = $3K + ($300/bulb x 10) = $6K (or more)
also - not counting aggrivation.

I can change the lamp in my JVD I-DLA from the front of the set (there is one
screw on the left side that has to be removed). Its a 5-minute job.

Don't know about the cost. It may come down in the future, too.

And plasma has a better picture.

Probably. But I've seen some pretty impressive-looking RPTVs, and prices on
them are falling faster than the same-size plasmas.

loutent wrote:
Hi Mike,

I know this is off topic, but as I am in the process
of building an entertainemt center for some new
WS Plasma/DPL/LCD in the next year, I have run
into an interesting problem.

If I understand correctly (and I may be wrong), the DLP
and LCD units use bulbs that must/should be replaced
every 3000 hours or so (about a year?). About $200 to
$400 per bulb.

The plasma units, although more expensive initially,
have ratings for 50,000 hours.

If my math is ok, it seems to me that a plasma is a
better buy and better picture (deeper blacks etc) if
you intend to keep a set, say, 10 years.

Plasma for 10 years at (say) $6K = $6K.

DLP for 10 years = $3K + ($300/bulb x 10) = $6K (or more)
also - not counting aggrivation.

And plasma has a better picture.

Am I wrong here?

Yes.

Plasma still has burn in problems that LCD and DLP do not have. DLP can
match plasma resolution, contrast, and viewing angle. DLP doesn't have
the problem with burned out pixels like an LCD can. Bulbs can (and
often do) last considerably more than 3000 hrs (my ex's LCD is over 2
years old and still on the original bulb, and they watch a lot of TV).

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

"Odinn" wrote in message
often do) last considerably more than 3000 hrs (my ex's LCD is over 2
years old and still on the original bulb, and they watch a lot of TV).

The only time when you'd *want* a bulb to burn out eh? Or, does your
separation agreement make you responsible for maintenance of it?

How about having the TV raise out of the base? Put it on a lift and
the entire thing would come up out of the base for viewing and go back
down when not in use.

Upscale wrote:
"Odinn" wrote in message

often do) last considerably more than 3000 hrs (my ex's LCD is over 2
years old and still on the original bulb, and they watch a lot of TV).


The only time when you'd *want* a bulb to burn out eh? Or, does your
separation agreement make you responsible for maintenance of it?


Only maintenance I have that I'm responsible for is our daughter, and
that's enough maintenance for both her stepdad and myself to deal with

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

I have done several cabinets with bifold doors and pocket door hardware. The
hinge goes on the back side of the door. You need heavy duty pocket door
hardware. Even then you have to use all the adjust to hold up the doors
when closed due to the moment exerted on the hinges. Use magnet catches and
stops at both the center and end of the doors. You have to allow about 3"
clear at the sides for the door to retract at a double thickness. Use
http://www.knapeandvogt.com/kv/Drawe.../8092/8092.htm
or similar hardware.

Preston

"bridger" wrote in message
...
so I have a client who wants an entertainment center to hold- in
addition to a bunch of other electronics and just plain tchotchkes- a
giant HD plasma tv. he of course wants doors that go away a la flipper
door hardware. thing is these freakin' teevees are so wide now and so
thin that there isn't enough depth to the cabinet to bury the doors in
there- there would still be more than half of the door poking out into
the room when it is fully shoved back into it's pocket.

I thought about folding the door first, bifold style, then sliding it
back into the pocket. I'm not sure how likely I am to find pocket
hardware that can accomodate this, and even if I do it will mean that
the bifold hinge is facing the room when it's open, which sounds pretty
ugly to me. knob placement is another issue with this configuration.

tambour doors is another option. they also need a place to go, which in
this case is the space behind the tv, which is needed for wire chase and
other access. it might be doable, but before I get too invested in a
particular design I'd like to see if any of you all have any bright
ideas....

Here's a link
http://www.televisionlifts.com/pages/815121/index.htm

" wrote in
oups.com:

Here's a link
http://www.televisionlifts.com/pages/815121/index.htm



Chatting with a cabinetmaker the other day, who was building something for
his best client (his wife). $1500 for the monitor. $1800 for the lift.
Then he still ahd to build the casework.

Maybe this one is priced less expensively?

Patriarch

Lou...

Man, there are a million pros and cons on the DLP vs Plasma vs LCD.
Here are a few thoughts:

LCD - it's like a laptop... if a pixel goes dead, it stays dead unless
they replace it. Picture quality is subjective.

Plasma - Thin... but expensive and with a fixed lifespan that depends on
the quality. A $8500 50 inch panasonic is going to last longer and look
better than a $2900 special no-name at Costco. My guy told me (and he
sells plenty of plasma sets) that after about 8-10 years, you can throw
away the Plasma set because there is nothing slavageable... the screen
just slowly deteriorates (even on the best sets) after say 5 years
whereas the LCD and DLP sets are as good as new once you install a new
bulb (assuming the thing is not hit by lightning!)

DLP - Yes, the bulbs have a lifespan, but the actual lifespan is longer
than you noted. My dealer (a friend also) told me the bulbs should last
about 8000 hours if you use care. There are new DLPs coming out that
are less than 10" thick. How they fold the picture I don't know, but
they've had demo's at consumer electronic shows. They are expensive and
big sets right now... maybe 70"+?

I did a lot of research (maybe 6 months) before buying this particular
set. Samsung was the first DLP, but Mitsubishi leapfrogged them with
newer technology. Even among the various DLP brands... there is a wide
variety of features and picture quality available, and I'll be the first
to admit its a fluid thing. Last November, Mitsubishi clearly had the
best technology out there IMHO. Samsung intro'd a new set shortly
after, but the DLP engine still wasn't up to the Mits engine. And as
far as the bulb goes... it is better to leave these sets on rather than
turn them on and off 20 minutes later. The bulb needs the cool-down
period after it goes off, so if you're smart you get the backup power
supply just in case. Also, the wholesale price of the bulbs is around
$200 or less, so by the time you need one, I suspect you'll be able to
buy one online for near that price.

All I know is that you will not be prepared for the picture quality. I
am amazed everytime I watch a NFL or MLB game... not to mention PBS. If
they start showing TOH in HD... you're gonna'see particles of sawdust
flying around Norm that you never saw before. And you'll see wood grain
and other details that are unreal. You can see the stiching on player's
jerseys with my set. The other thing you should keep in mind is size.
Get the biggest set your room can handle. I almost bought a 52" and I
have a 14+ X 21' family room. Never regretted the 62" once.

Sorry for the rant guys. Threw in the TOH stuff to keep it honest.

Mike