A friend of mine approached me with a rough drawing of a driveway gate
design today. The simplest way to describe it would be a frame and panel
design, except that instead of a panel it would use slats or pickets in the
field. The design would use a curved top rail and straight stiles and
bottom rail. We had envisioned using M&T's to attach the slats to the
rails. While it has raised numerous questions in my neophyte mind, the
biggest one for now is how I would cut the tenons and their shoulders to go
into a curved frame. I imagine that I could establish a line where the
shoulder should be and rough out the material in an expedient manner and
then work to the line with chisels, rasps, files, etc. Is there a better,
more consistent, more expedient way to do this? Did any of this make sense?

SteveP.

"Highland Pairos" writes:


[...]

bottom rail. We had envisioned using M&T's to attach the slats to the
rails. While it has raised numerous questions in my neophyte mind, the
biggest one for now is how I would cut the tenons and their shoulders to go
into a curved frame. I imagine that I could establish a line where the

What if you make the mortises in the top rail big enough to take in
the whole slats? That way there are no curved tenon shoulders.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

What about creating a flat area where the shoulders attach so they could
also be straight? I've never tried to make curved shoulders on a tenon, but
I think it would be a bear.

Jim

The simplest solution would be to rout a groove over the entire length
of the top rail. Put in your pickets and then fill in the space
between them with blocks wood thus creating your mortises after the
fact. I would also dowel the pickets in place from the sides rather
than from the top.

On Sat, 21 May 2005 03:32:55 GMT, the inscrutable "Highland Pairos"
spake:

A friend of mine approached me with a rough drawing of a driveway gate
design today. The simplest way to describe it would be a frame and panel
design, except that instead of a panel it would use slats or pickets in the
field. The design would use a curved top rail and straight stiles and
bottom rail. We had envisioned using M&T's to attach the slats to the
rails. While it has raised numerous questions in my neophyte mind, the
biggest one for now is how I would cut the tenons and their shoulders to go
into a curved frame. I imagine that I could establish a line where the
shoulder should be and rough out the material in an expedient manner and
then work to the line with chisels, rasps, files, etc. Is there a better,
more consistent, more expedient way to do this? Did any of this make sense?

Grooves can be routed the entire length, then filler pieces placed in
between the slats. I've seen that done to save time in wannabe M&T
furniture.


================================================== =========
Save the Endangered Bouillons from being cubed!
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
================================================== =========

I'm liking the idea of a groove the entire length of the top rail, not
cutting tenons at all and then using filler blocks. Is there a downside to
eliminating the tenons all together?

SteveP.

P.S. Just wait until I start working out the structural integrity issues of
this thing.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 May 2005 03:32:55 GMT, the inscrutable "Highland Pairos"
spake:

A friend of mine approached me with a rough drawing of a driveway gate
design today. The simplest way to describe it would be a frame and
panel
design, except that instead of a panel it would use slats or pickets in
the
field. The design would use a curved top rail and straight stiles and
bottom rail. We had envisioned using M&T's to attach the slats to the
rails. While it has raised numerous questions in my neophyte mind, the
biggest one for now is how I would cut the tenons and their shoulders to
go
into a curved frame. I imagine that I could establish a line where the
shoulder should be and rough out the material in an expedient manner and
then work to the line with chisels, rasps, files, etc. Is there a better,
more consistent, more expedient way to do this? Did any of this make
sense?

Grooves can be routed the entire length, then filler pieces placed in
between the slats. I've seen that done to save time in wannabe M&T
furniture.


================================================== =========
Save the Endangered Bouillons from being cubed!
http://www.diversify.com/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
================================================== =========

On Sat, 21 May 2005 19:59:16 GMT, the inscrutable "Highland Pairos"
spake:

I'm liking the idea of a groove the entire length of the top rail, not
cutting tenons at all and then using filler blocks. Is there a downside to
eliminating the tenons all together?

It's neither strong nor pure as far as joinery goes. Add a tension
cable from the top of the pivot end to the bottom of the swung end.
A turnbuckle can be used to keep it semi-square.


P.S. Just wait until I start working out the structural integrity issues of
this thing.

WHAT structural integrity? g

-
The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites

If you're afraid that the spacers/ filler pieces would eventually fall out,
you could cut them into the slat, lookingkindo of lime this if layed on its
side:
[[===]]

It would require cutting each side of the slat in order to provide the
filler at the top and an opening between the adjacent slats.
HTH,
Chiz


wrote in message
oups.com...
The simplest solution would be to rout a groove over the entire length
of the top rail. Put in your pickets and then fill in the space
between them with blocks wood thus creating your mortises after the
fact. I would also dowel the pickets in place from the sides rather
than from the top.

One of the big issues is going to be the fact that each panel will be seven
feet from the latch to the hinges. My friend (who is a carpenter) was
thinking that the rails would be 2x6. He is using a gate that is at a house
he is working on as a model of what he wants. I will be curious to see what
details he discovers about it.

SteveP.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 May 2005 19:59:16 GMT, the inscrutable "Highland Pairos"
spake:

I'm liking the idea of a groove the entire length of the top rail, not
cutting tenons at all and then using filler blocks. Is there a downside
to
eliminating the tenons all together?

It's neither strong nor pure as far as joinery goes. Add a tension
cable from the top of the pivot end to the bottom of the swung end.
A turnbuckle can be used to keep it semi-square.


P.S. Just wait until I start working out the structural integrity issues
of
this thing.

WHAT structural integrity? g

-
The only reason I would take up exercising is || http://diversify.com
so that I could hear heavy breathing again. || Programmed Websites

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 May 2005 03:28:37 GMT, the inscrutable "Highland Pairos"
spake:

One of the big issues is going to be the fact that each panel will be
seven
feet from the latch to the hinges. My friend (who is a carpenter) was
thinking that the rails would be 2x6. He is using a gate that is at a
house
he is working on as a model of what he wants. I will be curious to see
what
details he discovers about it.
Damnit, man, MUST you top-post?

Will this be painted? For integrity, he might use a few short
vertical cables pinned between the rails, spaced so they can be
a feature or point of interest.


I believe the plan is to keep it natural. That will make forming the top
rail a challenge. I asked him to try to look for glue lines on the
prototype, but I have already started working out how to piece it together
out of reasonable sized pieces of wood. There will be much template making
and testing long before the real wood gets cut. I will raise the idea of
vertical cables to him and see what he thinks. Are you envisioning a
turnbuckle type arrangement?

SteveP.

"Highland Pairos" writes:


[...]

I believe the plan is to keep it natural. That will make forming the top
rail a challenge. I asked him to try to look for glue lines on the
prototype, but I have already started working out how to piece it together
out of reasonable sized pieces of wood. There will be much template making

1) Find tree grown in a shape that is very near to the wanted
curvature
2) Have a party
3) Split tree from step 1 into two halves, hew/plane split faces
plane, thickness other side, bandsaw-joint upper and lower faces,
tidy up.

--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

"Highland Pairos" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine approached me with a rough drawing of a driveway gate
design today. The simplest way to describe it would be a frame and panel
design, except that instead of a panel it would use slats or pickets in the
field. The design would use a curved top rail and straight stiles and
bottom rail. We had envisioned using M&T's to attach the slats to the
rails. While it has raised numerous questions in my neophyte mind, the
biggest one for now is how I would cut the tenons and their shoulders to go
into a curved frame. I imagine that I could establish a line where the
shoulder should be and rough out the material in an expedient manner and
then work to the line with chisels, rasps, files, etc. Is there a better,
more consistent, more expedient way to do this? Did any of this make
sense?

SteveP.

think of how you'd replace a broken slat.

If I had to do that I think I would probably try to build a fixture that I
could position on the curve that would allow me to use a plunge router to
make the mortices at the correct position/angle. For the tenons (and
possibly the mortices), I would use my Leigh FMT jig (because I just got
it), but you could quite easily build a fixture (like a T with a hole in the
center of it) similar in shape to the FMT jig that would allow you to rout
the end of the slats and make the tenons. The slat would be clamped to the
verticle leg of the T and the router would ride along the top of the T
cutting the tenon through a hole in the center of the top of the T (tough to
describe).

Like the other responder, I'm wondering how you would repair this thing at a
later date. Possibly you could make the curved rail removable so replacement
slats could be installed. You might also consider making a sub frame that
would hold the slats and then fasten into the larger frame. It could later
be removed and repaired without dis-assembling the whole gate.

--
Charley



"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
...

"Highland Pairos" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine approached me with a rough drawing of a driveway gate
design today. The simplest way to describe it would be a frame and
panel
design, except that instead of a panel it would use slats or pickets in
the
field. The design would use a curved top rail and straight stiles and
bottom rail. We had envisioned using M&T's to attach the slats to the
rails. While it has raised numerous questions in my neophyte mind, the
biggest one for now is how I would cut the tenons and their shoulders to
go
into a curved frame. I imagine that I could establish a line where the
shoulder should be and rough out the material in an expedient manner and
then work to the line with chisels, rasps, files, etc. Is there a
better,
more consistent, more expedient way to do this? Did any of this make
sense?

SteveP.

think of how you'd replace a broken slat.

A few issues ago, Wood magazine showed on the cover a bed that had a
design something like the slats. Altho it wasn't curved at the top, I
think the method they used could be readily adapted.

In article ,
"Charley" wrote:

If I had to do that I think I would probably try to build a fixture that I
could position on the curve that would allow me to use a plunge router to
make the mortices at the correct position/angle. For the tenons (and
possibly the mortices), I would use my Leigh FMT jig (because I just got
it), but you could quite easily build a fixture (like a T with a hole in the
center of it) similar in shape to the FMT jig that would allow you to rout
the end of the slats and make the tenons. The slat would be clamped to the
verticle leg of the T and the router would ride along the top of the T
cutting the tenon through a hole in the center of the top of the T (tough to
describe).

Like the other responder, I'm wondering how you would repair this thing at a
later date. Possibly you could make the curved rail removable so replacement
slats could be installed. You might also consider making a sub frame that
would hold the slats and then fasten into the larger frame. It could later
be removed and repaired without dis-assembling the whole gate.

--
Charley



"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
...

"Highland Pairos" wrote in message
...
A friend of mine approached me with a rough drawing of a driveway gate
design today. The simplest way to describe it would be a frame and
panel
design, except that instead of a panel it would use slats or pickets in
the
field. The design would use a curved top rail and straight stiles and
bottom rail. We had envisioned using M&T's to attach the slats to the
rails. While it has raised numerous questions in my neophyte mind, the
biggest one for now is how I would cut the tenons and their shoulders to
go
into a curved frame. I imagine that I could establish a line where the
shoulder should be and rough out the material in an expedient manner and
then work to the line with chisels, rasps, files, etc. Is there a
better,
more consistent, more expedient way to do this? Did any of this make
sense?

SteveP.

think of how you'd replace a broken slat.