But how is bad electrical advice any different from getting bad
(potentially dangerous) advice on how to use a woodworking tool? For
example, using an antikickback or workholding device incorrectly could
cause as many problems as incorrectly wiring something. I'm thinking
about the kinds of things discussed in that thread about millwork being
shot out of a table saw through the shop wall, etc. I think anything
discussed on any forum should be compared with personal experience and
the sound advice of a someone who knows what they are talking about.
Just my opinion, hope people give it some thought.

In article .com, "woodworker88" wrote:
But how is bad electrical advice any different from getting bad
(potentially dangerous) advice on how to use a woodworking tool?

Because bad electrical advice can get people _killed_.

For
example, using an antikickback or workholding device incorrectly could
cause as many problems as incorrectly wiring something.

I disagree entirely.

Woodworking accidents are rarely fatal, and generally are the result of
carelessness, inattention, or poor practice - and the consequences normally do
not go much beyond injuries to the one responsible for said carelessness et
cetera, and a ruined piece of lumber.

Improper wiring, by contrast, results with disturbing frequency in residence
fires which do tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage, or
claim the lives of an entire family.

They're just not in the same category at all, either in the nature, or the
scope, of the consequences.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

(Doug Miller) wrote in
m:


Improper wiring, by contrast, results with disturbing frequency in
residence fires which do tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars
worth of damage, or claim the lives of an entire family.

They're just not in the same category at all, either in the nature, or
the scope, of the consequences.


And they lay in hiding endangering future occupants and workers...

Patriarch

I feel your pain. But try to control your hysteresis. Don't give
yourself anode bleed. Step up to the plate and lose your biases.
Watch those full waves as your arm could come out of its socket.

This discussion is really going down the tubes.

Lee

--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"

They're just not in the same category at all, either in the nature, or
the
scope, of the consequences.

Someone just told me about a situation in which a student was leaning
back in a chair/stool in a high school chem lab. The chair slipped,
the kid fell, hit her head on the table. Was a quadraplegic until died
at the age of ~40. Now someone could have said that she got bad advice
about whether to lean a chair back on a slippery floor. Did she regret
getting that information or lack of it? No one will ever know. To me,
advice is advice. Mistakes can kill or maim no matter what they are.
Don't believe me: go into google scholar (searching scholarly articles)
and type in "fatal woodworking accidents." Here is a quote from one of
the articles: "A study from Sweden showed that woodworkers had the
highest incidence rates of accident-related permanent disability among
young workers. " Persson I, Larsson TJ. Accident-related permanent
disabilities of young workers in Sweden 1984-85. Safety Sci. 1991;
14:187-198
I don't seek to offend or put down other people's views or opinions,
but I do believe that it is important to hear all points of view.

In article .com, "woodworker88" wrote:
They're just not in the same category at all, either in the nature, or
the
scope, of the consequences.

Someone just told me about a situation in which a student was leaning
back in a chair/stool in a high school chem lab. The chair slipped,
the kid fell, hit her head on the table. Was a quadraplegic until died
at the age of ~40. Now someone could have said that she got bad advice
about whether to lean a chair back on a slippery floor. Did she regret
getting that information or lack of it? No one will ever know. To me,
advice is advice. Mistakes can kill or maim no matter what they are.

True - but you're completely ignoring the concept of "relative risk". Bad
electrical wiring is _far_ more likely to cause serious injury or death, and
major property damage, than bad practices in a woodshop - and the consequences
affect innocent people as well as (or instead of) the boob who caused the
problem.

Don't believe me: go into google scholar (searching scholarly articles)
and type in "fatal woodworking accidents." Here is a quote from one of
the articles: "A study from Sweden showed that woodworkers had the
highest incidence rates of accident-related permanent disability among
young workers. " Persson I, Larsson TJ. Accident-related permanent
disabilities of young workers in Sweden 1984-85. Safety Sci. 1991;
14:187-198

I'm not sure you've grasped my point yet. How many of those woodworking
accidents injured, disabled, or killed anyone besides the woodworker? How many
of those accidents caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in property damage?
Electrical fires do these things; woodworking accidents do not.

I don't seek to offend or put down other people's views or opinions,
but I do believe that it is important to hear all points of view.

As do I. That does *not* mean, however, that I believe all points of view are
equally valid.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Lee Gordon wrote:
I feel your pain. But try to control your hysteresis. Don't give
yourself anode bleed. Step up to the plate and lose your biases.
Watch those full waves as your arm could come out of its socket.

This discussion is really going down the tubes.

And that shocks you how? Haven't you seen the resistance of this group
to terminating some current trend that has them wired?

If you feel strongly about it, perhaps you could conduct a pole and urge
folks to volt against it.

(sorry about that last one, I deserve to whipped
with zip cord for that)

In article .com,
"woodworker88" wrote:


[severely snipped for brevity]


but I do believe that it is important to hear all points of view.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.
The point of my original post was to try to warn people that just
because somebody offers up an answer, with some sound of authority, that
it could be wrong.
I think you are right to say that it's not just the topic of electricity
which can create a hazard with a wrong answer/advice.
---- EXAMPLE!!!..."When turning a bowl, you can see MUCH better if you
take off your safety glasses" ------THAT is an example.

In article ,
Unquestionably Confused wrote:

Lee Gordon wrote:
I feel your pain. But try to control your hysteresis. Don't give
yourself anode bleed. Step up to the plate and lose your biases.
Watch those full waves as your arm could come out of its socket.

This discussion is really going down the tubes.

And that shocks you how? Haven't you seen the resistance of this group
to terminating some current trend that has them wired?

If you feel strongly about it, perhaps you could conduct a pole and urge
folks to volt against it.

(sorry about that last one, I deserve to whipped
with zip cord for that)

I will strain to gauge the need for a corporal punishment such as that.
I'm in a bit of a flux about physical punishment.
Do not consider this post binding.

I now completely see your point. You are correct that very few
woodworking accidents involve others compared to electrical accidents.
However, many electrical accidents on the smaller scale involve only
the amateur electrictian. I do agree that, given the relative scale of
the problems, we should limit this forum to sound woodworking advice.
If in doubt about an electrical problem, contact a licensed
electrician. Doug, thanks for the enlightening discussion.

Sorry bout the length. Thought it made a point.

In article ,
(Doug Miller) wrote:

I don't seek to offend or put down other people's views or opinions,
but I do believe that it is important to hear all points of view.

As do I. That does *not* mean, however, that I believe all points of view are
equally valid.

No argument from me, Doug. I know what you mean.

In article .com,
"woodworker88" wrote:

I now completely see your point. You are correct that very few
woodworking accidents involve others compared to electrical accidents.
However, many electrical accidents on the smaller scale involve only
the amateur electrictian. I do agree that, given the relative scale of
the problems, we should limit this forum to sound woodworking advice.
If in doubt about an electrical problem, contact a licensed
electrician. Doug, thanks for the enlightening discussion.

Yeah..and WHO said there was no rational thought in UseNet, eh?

Wire people digressing from the topic of this thread? I find it very
revolting!! Watts next??? It's time to pull the plug on this stuff!!!
Sam