As I progress (slowly) on the design of the pergola I'm putting in my
back yard, and as I get to the point where I'm stacking the
criss-crossing rafters together, the thought crossed my mind that
instead of toe-nailing them together or driving screws down at an angle
(or using those ugly galvanized metal brackets), couldn't I drill 3/4"
holes and use dowels and glue to fasten them together? Dumb idea? If
not, what kind of glue would you use? Titebond III? I'm using
untreated Western Red Cedar, BTW.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.

I used a router to run a groove the length of the top of the cross stringers
wide enough to take a cut down 2 x 4.

I set the 2 x 4 in it and then cut dado's in the cross pieces.

I still put scres in but went in through the 2 x 4 and into the dado.






"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
As I progress (slowly) on the design of the pergola I'm putting in my back
yard, and as I get to the point where I'm stacking the criss-crossing
rafters together, the thought crossed my mind that instead of toe-nailing
them together or driving screws down at an angle (or using those ugly
galvanized metal brackets), couldn't I drill 3/4" holes and use dowels and
glue to fasten them together? Dumb idea? If not, what kind of glue would
you use? Titebond III? I'm using untreated Western Red Cedar, BTW.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.

Jay R wrote:
I used a router to run a groove the length of the top of the cross stringers
wide enough to take a cut down 2 x 4.

I set the 2 x 4 in it and then cut dado's in the cross pieces.

I still put scres in but went in through the 2 x 4 and into the dado.

Yes, I would like to cut interlocking notches (dadoes) in the joists and
rafters (and stringers, or whatever you call them in this context), and
that would certainly make the whole thing much stronger, but I'm trying
to eek as much height out of the structure as I can and I'm limited by
the height of my vertical posts. I'm thinking dowels would make the
structure stronger than if everything were toe-nailed. I also think it
would also be spiffy to build the whole thing without using any metal.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.

Steve Turner wrote:

Jay R wrote:
I used a router to run a groove the length of the top of the cross
stringers wide enough to take a cut down 2 x 4.

I set the 2 x 4 in it and then cut dado's in the cross pieces.

I still put scres in but went in through the 2 x 4 and into the dado.

Yes, I would like to cut interlocking notches (dadoes) in the joists and
rafters (and stringers, or whatever you call them in this context), and
that would certainly make the whole thing much stronger, but I'm trying
to eek as much height out of the structure as I can and I'm limited by
the height of my vertical posts. I'm thinking dowels would make the
structure stronger than if everything were toe-nailed. I also think it
would also be spiffy to build the whole thing without using any metal.

What are those stepped dowels I've seen. Bet that would be as strong as
a %#^@ brickhouse.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

evodawg wrote:
Steve Turner wrote:

Jay R wrote:
I used a router to run a groove the length of the top of the cross
stringers wide enough to take a cut down 2 x 4.

I set the 2 x 4 in it and then cut dado's in the cross pieces.

I still put scres in but went in through the 2 x 4 and into the dado.
Yes, I would like to cut interlocking notches (dadoes) in the joists and
rafters (and stringers, or whatever you call them in this context), and
that would certainly make the whole thing much stronger, but I'm trying
to eek as much height out of the structure as I can and I'm limited by
the height of my vertical posts. I'm thinking dowels would make the
structure stronger than if everything were toe-nailed. I also think it
would also be spiffy to build the whole thing without using any metal.

What are those stepped dowels I've seen. Bet that would be as strong as
a %#^@ brickhouse.

Looks like it, yeah: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=10483

If only they made them in sizes big enough to go down through a 2x4
standing on edge into a 2x8...

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.

Steve Turner wrote:

evodawg wrote:
Steve Turner wrote:

Jay R wrote:
I used a router to run a groove the length of the top of the cross
stringers wide enough to take a cut down 2 x 4.

I set the 2 x 4 in it and then cut dado's in the cross pieces.

I still put scres in but went in through the 2 x 4 and into the dado.
Yes, I would like to cut interlocking notches (dadoes) in the joists and
rafters (and stringers, or whatever you call them in this context), and
that would certainly make the whole thing much stronger, but I'm trying
to eek as much height out of the structure as I can and I'm limited by
the height of my vertical posts. I'm thinking dowels would make the
structure stronger than if everything were toe-nailed. I also think it
would also be spiffy to build the whole thing without using any metal.

What are those stepped dowels I've seen. Bet that would be as strong as
a %#^@ brickhouse.

Looks like it, yeah: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=10483

If only they made them in sizes big enough to go down through a 2x4
standing on edge into a 2x8...

Could you use a toe nail technique and flush cut them?
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586

What kind of climate are you in?

I am in Philly and it is too wet here to go wood only without major sealing.

If you are going for height, consider a ball or wheel in the post below the
stringers.






"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
Jay R wrote:
I used a router to run a groove the length of the top of the cross
stringers wide enough to take a cut down 2 x 4.

I set the 2 x 4 in it and then cut dado's in the cross pieces.

I still put scres in but went in through the 2 x 4 and into the dado.

Yes, I would like to cut interlocking notches (dadoes) in the joists and
rafters (and stringers, or whatever you call them in this context), and
that would certainly make the whole thing much stronger, but I'm trying to
eek as much height out of the structure as I can and I'm limited by the
height of my vertical posts. I'm thinking dowels would make the structure
stronger than if everything were toe-nailed. I also think it would also
be spiffy to build the whole thing without using any metal.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.

should work, but keep in mind where water will end up.

After spending way too many years repairing rotted timberframe and other
wood structures - anytime you are doing joinery in wood that will be exposed
to the weather, think about where the water will darin - or where it will
pool. or sit.

If you look at old timberframe buildings, most of the joints are angled so
that water will drain away fromthe joint - if water does get nito the joint,
it will slowly drain out.

If you are drilling blind holes to put the dowels in, they will become
palces where water can collect. Unless you manage to completely fill the
hole with dowel/glue - eventually water willget in ,a nd start rot. The
cedar is a good choice - it is pretty rot resistant, but if you are anywhere
that gets substantial rain (or worse: freezing weather) I'd at elast think
about it...

-James



"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
As I progress (slowly) on the design of the pergola I'm putting in my back
yard, and as I get to the point where I'm stacking the criss-crossing
rafters together, the thought crossed my mind that instead of toe-nailing
them together or driving screws down at an angle (or using those ugly
galvanized metal brackets), couldn't I drill 3/4" holes and use dowels and
glue to fasten them together? Dumb idea? If not, what kind of glue would
you use? Titebond III? I'm using untreated Western Red Cedar, BTW.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.

Good points; thanks. I'm in Austin so I don't think excess rain will be
too much of an issue. :-) If I use dowels I think I'll also need to be
careful about what kind of wood they're made from; White Oak is probably
the only suitable wood I'm likely to find in a commercially available
dowel, and I don't think the Borgs are going so far as to label their
dowels "White Oak" or "Red Oak"... I may have to make my own.

jd wrote:
should work, but keep in mind where water will end up.

After spending way too many years repairing rotted timberframe and other
wood structures - anytime you are doing joinery in wood that will be exposed
to the weather, think about where the water will darin - or where it will
pool. or sit.

If you look at old timberframe buildings, most of the joints are angled so
that water will drain away fromthe joint - if water does get nito the joint,
it will slowly drain out.

If you are drilling blind holes to put the dowels in, they will become
palces where water can collect. Unless you manage to completely fill the
hole with dowel/glue - eventually water willget in ,a nd start rot. The
cedar is a good choice - it is pretty rot resistant, but if you are anywhere
that gets substantial rain (or worse: freezing weather) I'd at elast think
about it...

-James



"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...
As I progress (slowly) on the design of the pergola I'm putting in my back
yard, and as I get to the point where I'm stacking the criss-crossing
rafters together, the thought crossed my mind that instead of toe-nailing
them together or driving screws down at an angle (or using those ugly
galvanized metal brackets), couldn't I drill 3/4" holes and use dowels and
glue to fasten them together? Dumb idea? If not, what kind of glue would
you use? Titebond III? I'm using untreated Western Red Cedar, BTW.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.