I realize this has been done before but I thought I would upset someone or
other with a few thoughts on most people's not so favorite part of our
craft, sanding. To me a badly finished piece of work is a bad looking and
badly crafted piece of work. For a good finish you need a good surface and
that usually means a well sanded piece. Some times I think I should be
considered a wood sander instead of a wood turner :-) So here are some
thoughts in more or less random order on getting that finish.

1) The first step in sanding is the best finish cut you can make on the
piece you are turning now. Just because the last piece of wood let you get
started with 220 grit does not mean this one will not need 40. Some woods
tear or pull no matter what you do. Set the ego aside and get the job done.
On the other hand strive to get that last great cut.

2) There are coarse grits for a reason. Tears and pulls need to be sanded
away before the finer stuff comes out. A couple of minutes with 80 grit
beats 10 minutes and 2 disks of 180.

3) Slow down the lathe and the sander to let the grit work. There are sides
as well as tips to the grain. Fast paper does not let anything but the tip
touch and the cut is shallow and slow. Slower paper cuts faster and better.
Ever wonder why an 80 grit belt leaves such a good surface from the belt
sander? It moves fast and the sides of the 80 do not get much chance to cut.

4) You can clean sandpaper but not sharpen it. Use a crepe block to clean
sanpaper if using dry wood, use a brass brush for wet wood. Dull paper goes
in the garbage can.

5) Finish with one grit before going to the next. If 80 grit did not remove
the tear, what makes you think 120 will do a great job? However, 320 will
really show up a left over 80 grit scratch.

6) Scratch show up? Go down a grit of two and get rid of it. See number 5.

7) When the surface is good for that piece and that wood, stop. An open
grain like ash may need less sanding, say to 400, than a closed grain like
maple which may call for 2000. Some styles of piece may call for higher
grits as may some finishes. Going to paint? Why go higher than 240 or maybe
even 180? Going to stain? More than 180 and it will not stain well, dye on
the other hand will work to 2000 or higher but may raise the grain so why
bother until after the dye job?

8) Hand sand where necessary. There is no shame involved. In fact it will
raise less dust, be quieter and do just as nice a job.

9) Get a finish on quickly after sanding before something happens to set
back all your hard work.

10) Take time to enjoy the surface as it sets up under the paper. This is
beautiful stuff being revealed. Enjoy the wood.

11) Maybe it should be the first. WEAR A GOOD DUST MASK!!!!! Keep a set of
lungs do you get to enjoy the next piece or two. I like a two cartridge
system but even those paper things are better than nothing. Look for ANSI or
NIOSH safety ratings when buying.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:LVRDd.44869$nN6.1296@edtnps84...

1) The first step in sanding is the best finish cut you can make on the
piece you are turning now. Just because the last piece of wood let you get
started with 220 grit does not mean this one will not need 40. Some woods
tear or pull no matter what you do. Set the ego aside and get the job
done.
On the other hand strive to get that last great cut.
SNIP

I take the gouge to the grinder and make the last pass with a freshened edge
for purely economic reasons. A thousand sharpenings versus the time and the
paper to run a coarser grit makes it seem a bargain.

Haven't found a wood that didn't improve with a _cut_ made with a sharp
gouge. Bunch of them get torn or picked out with a scraper.

Thanks Darrell, Thoughts from actual experience are usually good ones.

George, you just knew someone would have to ask about very light
shear-scraping as the last cut before sanding. Your opinion? Darrell's
too.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch
I think a light shear scrape before sanding is a great technique. I use it
all the time, especially since I made a set of shear scrapers after watching
a John Jordan video on hollow turning. For $2.00 they are some of my used
tools.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 14:15:07 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

I realize this has been done before but I thought I would upset someone or
other with a few thoughts on most people's not so favorite part of our
craft, sanding.
snip
Thanks, Darrell...
I printed this in 14 point bold to go on the wall over the lathe...


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

After watching a Clay Foster demo, I tried using various shaped cabinet
scrapers (Lee Valley) for pre-sanding shear- scraping. I like them.

Now back to topic, "Darrell's thoughts on sanding". Serendipity is often
good, but after taking time to offer one's thoughts, it can be
disconcerting when the thread
wanders far OT or dissolves into ? humor.
I plead guilty on both counts.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote in message
...
Thanks Darrell, Thoughts from actual experience are usually good ones.

George, you just knew someone would have to ask about very light
shear-scraping as the last cut before sanding. Your opinion? Darrell's
too.


Nope, but since you asked, I'm not sure what shear scraping is. I own no
videos and only one turning book. I picture it as a scraper on edge to
scrape a narrower face, based on comments here and elsewhere. As a
practice, I don't use scrapers unless I have to.

I find from reading here and working with other turners that they are prone
to gouge techniques like overextending from the rest and getting chatter as
they either turn the end of the gouge upward to pick up endgrain or pressing
into the side of the piece and getting out of circular as they follow the
gouges they make into the long grain and bounce up into short. For these
folks, a scraper is a way to get it back to round, because they (finally)
have a closer rest, or heavier section to reduce chatter, and they're
referencing to the rest, allowing the piece to bring the proud wood to the
edge. A broad contact surface perpendicular to the rotation will still tear
and pull, however.

My gouge selection and technique is different. I use broadly curved forged
or spindle gouges placed as close as possible to the work for best control
and rolled up on edge with the lower edge leading into the work slightly to
provide a bevel guide. This is the guide which I told you about which is
mostly parallel to rotation, not perpendicular. I may broaden or narrow the
cut by diminishing or increasing the angle into the work, because the dual
curve of the gouge ensures both that the exit is cut, not scraped, and that
the work cannot climb over the end of the gouge as it often does with narrow
bowl gouges.

This allows me to take out modest ridging left by less-than-smooth angular
changes on rough cuts as well. So you see I'm getting the broader bridging
of a scraper with the clean severing possible with a gouge - and no catches,
because I give no leverage and guide the bevel. I like to run rim to button
in one continuous motion.

I suppose where the form of the curve has an extremely small radius - where
I can't get a good reference with the bevel on a broad gouge, I might be
shear scraping. It does, however, generally give a surface inferior to a
smaller flat-section gouge cutting in that section alone. You don't have to
have a "scraper" to scrape, after all. Any edge will do.

I like the last couple of passes inside to produce tightly twisted
continuous shavings with the outside of the shaving smooth. I then make my
first pass with the supported disk basically 90 degrees to the remaining
gouge ridging.

http://personalpages.tds.net/~upgeorge/Smooth%20Two.htm
http://personalpages.tds.net/~upgeor...oth%20Four.htm

When is a scraper not a scraper? When it is a shear scraper. A shear scraper
cuts with a slightly rolled burr along its edge and is presented at 45* to
the angular rotation of the wood. In effect it becomes a gouge with
extremely small radius and little back pressure allowing an extrememly fine
cut with little or no tear. A gouge can be angled to produce the same cut
and this sounds similar to what George is doing albeit at a tangent to the
angular rotation. It should give a very fine cut in most situations. I am of
the opinion that the wood will produce its own situation wheI least expect
it :-)

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

To continue our thoughts on _sanding.

I occasionally cut-shear-scrape-rip-tear- and worse using a shallow 1"
gouge with the bevel ground on the flute. The wings upside down on the
toolrest and the cut a little high up on the blank with the toolrest
close up. Stable and the edge is automatically angled for (excuse the
expression) shear-scraping. The cutting point is narrow as the two
convex curves touch. Your further thoughts?

George, You might be a shear scraper if......


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" wrote in message
...
To continue our thoughts on _sanding.

I occasionally cut-shear-scrape-rip-tear- and worse using a shallow 1"
gouge with the bevel ground on the flute. The wings upside down on the
toolrest and the cut a little high up on the blank with the toolrest
close up. Stable and the edge is automatically angled for (excuse the
expression) shear-scraping. The cutting point is narrow as the two
convex curves touch. Your further thoughts?

George, You might be a shear scraper if......


Sounds like Joaz's (Python) in-cannel method. He claims good results. No
turned burrs, but, as I said, any edge can scrape.

Like a lot of "tips" along the way, this one answers a problem I don't have.
I'd rather cut across the fibers than scrape.

BTW, as of this morning I too am the owner, though not yet the possessor, of
a (used) Nova 3000. Have to wait for my wife to go to a conference in March
and pick it up at her sister's. Gives slower start and greater swing than
Ol' Blue, but I'm not likely to pass him along any time soon. Hope to turn
some of the larger pieces of wood on him that I've got lying outside frozen
right now.

Router Workshop's over, and I've got some display shelves to finish. Almost
a shame, speaking of sanding, to have to sand them after running the plane
over the surfaces, but the routed edges need work, so in the interest of
consistency, everything will get two grits prior to shellac.

George wrote:
"Arch" wrote in message
...
To continue our thoughts on _sanding.

I occasionally cut-shear-scrape-rip-tear- and worse using a shallow
1"
gouge with the bevel ground on the flute. The wings upside down on
the
toolrest and the cut a little high up on the blank with the
toolrest
close up. Stable and the edge is automatically angled for (excuse
the
expression) shear-scraping. The cutting point is narrow as the two
convex curves touch. Your further thoughts?

George, You might be a shear scraper if......


Sounds like Joaz's (Python) in-cannel method. He claims good
results. No
turned burrs, but, as I said, any edge can scrape.

Like a lot of "tips" along the way, this one answers a problem I
don't have.
I'd rather cut across the fibers than scrape.

BTW, as of this morning I too am the owner, though not yet the
possessor, of
a (used) Nova 3000. Have to wait for my wife to go to a conference
in March
and pick it up at her sister's. Gives slower start and greater swing
than
Ol' Blue, but I'm not likely to pass him along any time soon. Hope
to turn
some of the larger pieces of wood on him that I've got lying outside
frozen
right now.

Router Workshop's over, and I've got some display shelves to finish.
Almost
a shame, speaking of sanding, to have to sand them after running the
plane
over the surfaces, but the routed edges need work, so in the interest
of
consistency, everything will get two grits prior to shellac.

No one has yet mentioned a very important part of final cuts and shear
scraping. For best results, always go with the grain.

In article LVRDd.44869$nN6.1296@edtnps84,
"Darrell Feltmate" wrote:

I realize this has been done before but I thought I would upset someone or
other with a few thoughts on most people's not so favorite part of our
craft, sanding. To me a badly finished piece of work is a bad looking and
badly crafted piece of work. For a good finish you need a good surface and
that usually means a well sanded piece. Some times I think I should be
considered a wood sander instead of a wood turner :-) So here are some
thoughts in more or less random order on getting that finish


When hand sanding, especially at the beginning when using coarse sand
paper, I find that by applying a small amount of wax ( paste, briwax or
bees) to the wood, that the sanding goes much faster, and much less dust
is created. I use this technique when hollowing end grain when making
boxes. I haven't made any bowls, nor have I tried it with power sanding.

--
Dan Kozar



remove NOSPAM

Dan
Using wax when sanding, especially on the lower grits, can certainly speed
things up. Sometimes I apply it to the wood in areas of torn grain,
sometimes to the paper itself. It can be a help in both power and hand
sanding. I suspect that any paste wax would be fine, however I use a mix of
beeswax, mineral oil, and vegetable oil, the same wax I use as a finish in
some cases. Remmeber that using a wax in the higher grits may interfere with
some finishes.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 13:17:15 -0500, (Arch) wrote:

After watching a Clay Foster demo, I tried using various shaped cabinet
scrapers (Lee Valley) for pre-sanding shear- scraping. I like them.

Now back to topic, "Darrell's thoughts on sanding". Serendipity is often
good, but after taking time to offer one's thoughts, it can be
disconcerting when the thread
wanders far OT or dissolves into ? humor.
I plead guilty on both counts.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter


that was a gritty comment, Arch..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Bruce
the belt sander works "well" because it so fast that the 80 grit does not
get a chance to work as 80 grit. The tips of the grit are all that get a
chance to touch the wood, not the sides, so the paper does not have a chance
to remove as much wood as it ought. We use a coarse grit to remove the
necessary damaged wood and leave the good. A belt sander moves too quickly,
generates too much heat, and leaves a case hardened surface. It is good for
removing wood quickly but should be started with a lower number grit than
usual.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:YwnEd.70613$dv1.48262@edtnps89...
Bruce
the belt sander works "well" because it so fast that the 80 grit does not
get a chance to work as 80 grit. The tips of the grit are all that get a
chance to touch the wood, not the sides, so the paper does not have a
chance
to remove as much wood as it ought. We use a coarse grit to remove the
necessary damaged wood and leave the good. A belt sander moves too
quickly,
generates too much heat, and leaves a case hardened surface. It is good
for
removing wood quickly but should be started with a lower number grit than
usual.

Torn fibers pack between the grains and heat/burnish the surface because
they aren't ejected as they are created. That's why rotary power sanders
work so much better than holding a piece of paper against your bowl as it
rotates - they can unload themselves to a much greater degree. But take a
hint from the directions on your Random Orbit Sander - don't press.