On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 04:41:15 GMT, "Mike Rinken" wrote:

I need a little assistance. I've read reviews on the Delta 23-700 on
Amazon, I've read about the Woodcraft horizontal WetStone grinder, I've
slobbered over the Tormek although I don't know why, I've looked at a few
other Delta models, a Jet model, I've read and researched old threads on
Google as to this subject.

Basically I need to sharpen my turning tools. I've been turning for a week
now and needless to say I'm hooked. I'm making plans to create all of my
Christmas gifts on the lathe, but I know I'll be doing a lot of sharpening
as well.

So the question becomes, what do I get? A horizontal wet stone, a bench
grinder, a slow speed grinder, jigs to hold the tools (I think this is a
must). I had a guy at the local woodcraft recommend a 1" belt sander with
fine belts. Really? I talked to him about the various choices but he
wasn't much help. I do know I'll need to get some different wheels of
varying grit.

I do all kinds of woodworking, I'd prefer something I can sharpen my chisels
and jointer knives on as well.


Your best bet would be a slow speed Woodcraft grinder and the Wolverine jig setup. The grinder comes with the proper stones for
sharpening and the Wolverine jig is the defacto industry standard. Remember, you'll be sharpening your turning tools several times
per hour (in my case, its every 2 minutes or so). If you want an all-in-one sharpening system, the Tormek is the way to go, but
you'll find that shrpening your turning tools on it a slow process (but a superior edge).

Peter Teubel
Milford, MA
http://www.revolutionary-turners.com

I agree with Peter. I have a high speed 8" grinder and a Woodcraft 8" slow
speed plus a Tormek. The Tormek never gets used with the turning tools.
Too much prep and maintenance, plus too slow. In fact, I use the high speed
grinder the most because I haven't ever moved my Wolverine setup over to it.
I have a couple of homemade setups on the slow speed that mimic some of the
Wolverine, but are harder to adjust. So they are fixed for certain grinds.
Very fast to sharpen my tools, just turn around from the lathe, flick the
switch, tool on the wheel, switch off, back to turning. No water container
to clean and keep refilled. Tormek is very nice for an extremely sharp
edge, but that's not the most important thing in woodturning.

--
Rusty Myers
Austin, TX

"Peter Teubel" wrote in message
...
Your best bet would be a slow speed Woodcraft grinder and the Wolverine
jig setup. The grinder comes with the proper stones for
sharpening and the Wolverine jig is the defacto industry standard.
Remember, you'll be sharpening your turning tools several times
per hour (in my case, its every 2 minutes or so). If you want an
all-in-one sharpening system, the Tormek is the way to go, but
you'll find that shrpening your turning tools on it a slow process (but a
superior edge).

Peter Teubel
Milford, MA
http://www.revolutionary-turners.com

And I agree with Rusty. Get a high-speed grinder (I use a 7" Baldor) and the Oneway jig
system. Then have someone show you how to use them -- it will save you a lot of time and
steel. The slow speed grinder may help at first but as you get better at using it it will
become a frustration -- too slow -- and you will not grind when you really should.

Also, for your primary bowl gouges, I like a removable handle which comes off easily. That
allows me to turn with a very heavy tool, remove the handle quickly, and grind with just the
light gouge so that I can get the feel of what I'm doing.

Tormek is a waste of money for turners, I think. The Oneway balancing kit is a really nice-
to-have also.

Another thing, don't buy wheels which are too fine. For most of us, 100 grit is plenty fine.
I use a 36 on one side and an 80 on the other. Buy white wheels as a minimum. There are
some premium blue wheels which are also very nice to have.

Bill


In article , says...
I agree with Peter. I have a high speed 8" grinder and a Woodcraft 8" slow
speed plus a Tormek. The Tormek never gets used with the turning tools.
Too much prep and maintenance, plus too slow. In fact, I use the high speed
grinder the most because I haven't ever moved my Wolverine setup over to it.
I have a couple of homemade setups on the slow speed that mimic some of the
Wolverine, but are harder to adjust. So they are fixed for certain grinds.
Very fast to sharpen my tools, just turn around from the lathe, flick the
switch, tool on the wheel, switch off, back to turning. No water container
to clean and keep refilled. Tormek is very nice for an extremely sharp
edge, but that's not the most important thing in woodturning.

Bill Rubenstein wrote:
And I agree with Rusty. Get a high-speed grinder (I use a 7" Baldor)
and the Oneway jig system. Then have someone show you how to use
them -- it will save you a lot of time and steel. The slow speed
grinder may help at first but as you get better at using it it will
become a frustration -- too slow -- and you will not grind when you
really should.

Also, for your primary bowl gouges, I like a removable handle which
comes off easily. That allows me to turn with a very heavy tool,
remove the handle quickly, and grind with just the light gouge so
that I can get the feel of what I'm doing.

Tormek is a waste of money for turners, I think. The Oneway
balancing kit is a really nice- to-have also.

Another thing, don't buy wheels which are too fine. For most of us,
100 grit is plenty fine. I use a 36 on one side and an 80 on the
other. Buy white wheels as a minimum. There are some premium blue
wheels which are also very nice to have.

Bill



Woodcraft has a dual speed grinder that will do 1720 and 3450 so I can get
the best of both worlds and I like the idea of the Oneway or the Wolverine
system.

thanks again to all.

Mike

Ditto to Bill and Rusty.

I uesed a Delta vertical wet wheel for about a year for all my
sharpening. I then took a class from John Jordan who showed me the
correct way to use a regular 3450 rpm grinder. I bought an 8" JET the
next week and a Wolverine system. I drained the pond on the wet wheel
and shelved it. I never looked back.

The additional benefit for having the fast wheel is that if you ever
go to someone else's shop or do a club demo, you will be ready to
grind in the most "difficult" situation - a fast, dry wheel.

As for grinders, Baldor is the standard, but pricy. Deltas can work,
but I've seen a number of them that vibrate excessively. You may end
up returning them for another or buying a wheel balancing system. For
what it is worth, my JET 8" is heavy-rock solid with no vibration. It
cost about $175. The 8" Baldor approaches $500.

Joe Fleming - San Diego
------------------------------------------------------

Bill Rubenstein wrote in message .net...
And I agree with Rusty. Get a high-speed grinder (I use a 7" Baldor) and the Oneway jig
system. Then have someone show you how to use them -- it will save you a lot of time and
steel. The slow speed grinder may help at first but as you get better at using it it will
become a frustration -- too slow -- and you will not grind when you really should.

Also, for your primary bowl gouges, I like a removable handle which comes off easily. That
allows me to turn with a very heavy tool, remove the handle quickly, and grind with just the
light gouge so that I can get the feel of what I'm doing.

Tormek is a waste of money for turners, I think. The Oneway balancing kit is a really nice-
to-have also.

Another thing, don't buy wheels which are too fine. For most of us, 100 grit is plenty fine.
I use a 36 on one side and an 80 on the other. Buy white wheels as a minimum. There are
some premium blue wheels which are also very nice to have.

Bill


In article , says...
I agree with Peter. I have a high speed 8" grinder and a Woodcraft 8" slow
speed plus a Tormek. The Tormek never gets used with the turning tools.
Too much prep and maintenance, plus too slow. In fact, I use the high speed
grinder the most because I haven't ever moved my Wolverine setup over to it.
I have a couple of homemade setups on the slow speed that mimic some of the
Wolverine, but are harder to adjust. So they are fixed for certain grinds.
Very fast to sharpen my tools, just turn around from the lathe, flick the
switch, tool on the wheel, switch off, back to turning. No water container
to clean and keep refilled. Tormek is very nice for an extremely sharp
edge, but that's not the most important thing in woodturning.

I bought the 7" Baldor from Amazon for $199.00.

Bill

In article , says...
Ditto to Bill and Rusty.

I uesed a Delta vertical wet wheel for about a year for all my
sharpening. I then took a class from John Jordan who showed me the
correct way to use a regular 3450 rpm grinder. I bought an 8" JET the
next week and a Wolverine system. I drained the pond on the wet wheel
and shelved it. I never looked back.

The additional benefit for having the fast wheel is that if you ever
go to someone else's shop or do a club demo, you will be ready to
grind in the most "difficult" situation - a fast, dry wheel.

As for grinders, Baldor is the standard, but pricy. Deltas can work,
but I've seen a number of them that vibrate excessively. You may end
up returning them for another or buying a wheel balancing system. For
what it is worth, my JET 8" is heavy-rock solid with no vibration. It
cost about $175. The 8" Baldor approaches $500.

Joe Fleming - San Diego
------------------------------------------------------

Bill Rubenstein wrote in message .net...
And I agree with Rusty. Get a high-speed grinder (I use a 7" Baldor) and the Oneway jig
system. Then have someone show you how to use them -- it will save you a lot of time and
steel. The slow speed grinder may help at first but as you get better at using it it will
become a frustration -- too slow -- and you will not grind when you really should.

Also, for your primary bowl gouges, I like a removable handle which comes off easily. That
allows me to turn with a very heavy tool, remove the handle quickly, and grind with just the
light gouge so that I can get the feel of what I'm doing.

Tormek is a waste of money for turners, I think. The Oneway balancing kit is a really nice-
to-have also.

Another thing, don't buy wheels which are too fine. For most of us, 100 grit is plenty fine.
I use a 36 on one side and an 80 on the other. Buy white wheels as a minimum. There are
some premium blue wheels which are also very nice to have.

Bill


In article , says...
I agree with Peter. I have a high speed 8" grinder and a Woodcraft 8" slow
speed plus a Tormek. The Tormek never gets used with the turning tools.
Too much prep and maintenance, plus too slow. In fact, I use the high speed
grinder the most because I haven't ever moved my Wolverine setup over to it.
I have a couple of homemade setups on the slow speed that mimic some of the
Wolverine, but are harder to adjust. So they are fixed for certain grinds.
Very fast to sharpen my tools, just turn around from the lathe, flick the
switch, tool on the wheel, switch off, back to turning. No water container

Bill Rubenstein wrote:
I bought the 7" Baldor from Amazon for $199.00.

Bill

In article ,
says...
Ditto to Bill and Rusty.

I uesed a Delta vertical wet wheel for about a year for all my
sharpening. I then took a class from John Jordan who showed me the
correct way to use a regular 3450 rpm grinder. I bought an 8" JET
the
next week and a Wolverine system. I drained the pond on the wet
wheel
and shelved it. I never looked back.

The additional benefit for having the fast wheel is that if you ever
go to someone else's shop or do a club demo, you will be ready to
grind in the most "difficult" situation - a fast, dry wheel.

As for grinders, Baldor is the standard, but pricy. Deltas can work,
but I've seen a number of them that vibrate excessively. You may end
up returning them for another or buying a wheel balancing system.
For
what it is worth, my JET 8" is heavy-rock solid with no vibration.
It
cost about $175. The 8" Baldor approaches $500.

Joe Fleming - San Diego
------------------------------------------------------

Bill Rubenstein wrote in message
.net...
And I agree with Rusty. Get a high-speed grinder (I use a 7"
Baldor) and the Oneway jig system. Then have someone show you how
to use them -- it will save you a lot of time and steel. The slow
speed grinder may help at first but as you get better at using it
it will become a frustration -- too slow -- and you will not grind
when you really should.

Also, for your primary bowl gouges, I like a removable handle which
comes off easily. That allows me to turn with a very heavy tool,
remove the handle quickly, and grind with just the light gouge so
that I can get the feel of what I'm doing.

Tormek is a waste of money for turners, I think. The Oneway
balancing kit is a really nice- to-have also.

Another thing, don't buy wheels which are too fine. For most of
us, 100 grit is plenty fine. I use a 36 on one side and an 80 on
the other. Buy white wheels as a minimum. There are some premium
blue wheels which are also very nice to have.

Bill


In article ,
says...
I agree with Peter. I have a high speed 8" grinder and a
Woodcraft 8" slow speed plus a Tormek. The Tormek never gets used
with the turning tools. Too much prep and maintenance, plus too
slow. In fact, I use the high speed grinder the most because I
haven't ever moved my Wolverine setup over to it. I have a couple
of homemade setups on the slow speed that mimic some of the
Wolverine, but are harder to adjust. So they are fixed for
certain grinds. Very fast to sharpen my tools, just turn around
from the lathe, flick the switch, tool on the wheel, switch off,
back to turning. No water container

Ended up buying the dual speed 8" from Woodcraft and the Wolverine jig. The
guy at woodcraft was trying to sell me the Tormek but I talked him out of
it.

Thanks again for all of the advice. Now I can start turning again with
sharp chisels!

Mike

My personal feeling is that anybody selling a Tormek to a turner is either not a turner or
working on commission. It just isn't appropriate for us. Turning a 1' diameter form at 250
rpm and we are cutting 785'/minute. That glass-like edge may even last several seconds.

I roughed out a sweet gum bowl(not my favorite wood but the log has been taking up space in
my garage) and reground at least 6 times because it was quick and easy and I knew that the
tool would cut better after it was ground. I'm using the Oneway mastercut gouges, btw.

Bill

In article m, "Mike Rinken" mwrinken at
gmail dot com says...
Bill Rubenstein wrote:
I bought the 7" Baldor from Amazon for $199.00.

Bill

In article ,
says...
Ditto to Bill and Rusty.

I uesed a Delta vertical wet wheel for about a year for all my
sharpening. I then took a class from John Jordan who showed me the
correct way to use a regular 3450 rpm grinder. I bought an 8" JET
the
next week and a Wolverine system. I drained the pond on the wet
wheel
and shelved it. I never looked back.

The additional benefit for having the fast wheel is that if you ever
go to someone else's shop or do a club demo, you will be ready to
grind in the most "difficult" situation - a fast, dry wheel.

As for grinders, Baldor is the standard, but pricy. Deltas can work,
but I've seen a number of them that vibrate excessively. You may end
up returning them for another or buying a wheel balancing system.
For
what it is worth, my JET 8" is heavy-rock solid with no vibration.
It
cost about $175. The 8" Baldor approaches $500.

Joe Fleming - San Diego
------------------------------------------------------

Bill Rubenstein wrote in message
.net...
And I agree with Rusty. Get a high-speed grinder (I use a 7"
Baldor) and the Oneway jig system. Then have someone show you how
to use them -- it will save you a lot of time and steel. The slow
speed grinder may help at first but as you get better at using it
it will become a frustration -- too slow -- and you will not grind
when you really should.

Also, for your primary bowl gouges, I like a removable handle which
comes off easily. That allows me to turn with a very heavy tool,
remove the handle quickly, and grind with just the light gouge so
that I can get the feel of what I'm doing.

Tormek is a waste of money for turners, I think. The Oneway
balancing kit is a really nice- to-have also.

Another thing, don't buy wheels which are too fine. For most of

Sharp is as sharp does, Mike. Let your shavings guide you, not your
grinding jig. Tool presentation is the most important part of removing
wood gracefully.

1) "Ride" the toolrest.
2) Meet the piece with the heel of the bevel.
3) Gain the cutting angle by moving the handle of the tool until the desired
shaving is produced.

The work should slide on the bevel, not the other way 'round, and a properly
cut shaving should fall, not shoot away.

"Mike Rinken" mwrinken at gmail dot com wrote in message
news:22c98$4151e4a6$41a9ca42$18045@allthenewsgroup s.com...
Ended up buying the dual speed 8" from Woodcraft and the Wolverine jig.
The
guy at woodcraft was trying to sell me the Tormek but I talked him out of
it.

Thanks again for all of the advice. Now I can start turning again with
sharp chisels!

Just bought a 10" Craftex from busy bee for $195.- Canadian

Heavy and a fair machine fur the price, (keeping my fingers crossed) (G)
I hope.

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

Bill Rubenstein wrote:

I bought the 7" Baldor from Amazon for $199.00.

Bill

In article , says...

Ditto to Bill and Rusty.

I uesed a Delta vertical wet wheel for about a year for all my
sharpening. I then took a class from John Jordan who showed me the
correct way to use a regular 3450 rpm grinder. I bought an 8" JET the
next week and a Wolverine system. I drained the pond on the wet wheel
and shelved it. I never looked back.

The additional benefit for having the fast wheel is that if you ever
go to someone else's shop or do a club demo, you will be ready to
grind in the most "difficult" situation - a fast, dry wheel.

As for grinders, Baldor is the standard, but pricy. Deltas can work,
but I've seen a number of them that vibrate excessively. You may end
up returning them for another or buying a wheel balancing system. For
what it is worth, my JET 8" is heavy-rock solid with no vibration. It
cost about $175. The 8" Baldor approaches $500.

Joe Fleming - San Diego
------------------------------------------------------

Bill Rubenstein wrote in message .net...

And I agree with Rusty. Get a high-speed grinder (I use a 7" Baldor) and the Oneway jig
system. Then have someone show you how to use them -- it will save you a lot of time and
steel. The slow speed grinder may help at first but as you get better at using it it will
become a frustration -- too slow -- and you will not grind when you really should.

Also, for your primary bowl gouges, I like a removable handle which comes off easily. That
allows me to turn with a very heavy tool, remove the handle quickly, and grind with just the
light gouge so that I can get the feel of what I'm doing.

Tormek is a waste of money for turners, I think. The Oneway balancing kit is a really nice-
to-have also.

Another thing, don't buy wheels which are too fine. For most of us, 100 grit is plenty fine.
I use a 36 on one side and an 80 on the other. Buy white wheels as a minimum. There are
some premium blue wheels which are also very nice to have.

Bill


In article , says...

I agree with Peter. I have a high speed 8" grinder and a Woodcraft 8" slow
speed plus a Tormek. The Tormek never gets used with the turning tools.
Too much prep and maintenance, plus too slow. In fact, I use the high speed
grinder the most because I haven't ever moved my Wolverine setup over to it.
I have a couple of homemade setups on the slow speed that mimic some of the
Wolverine, but are harder to adjust. So they are fixed for certain grinds.
Very fast to sharpen my tools, just turn around from the lathe, flick the
switch, tool on the wheel, switch off, back to turning. No water container

When good people who are good turners disagree re a technique, a tool
edge, a descriptive term, or blondes vs redheads, it probably means that
there is no clearly superior answer no matter how tenaciously held or
expertly promoted.

Sometimes one size doesn't fit all; meaning that there is not a perfect
single solution. Probably differing opinions depend upon personal
attitudes and competencies.

Politics and religion are probably unimportant in the pathogenesis of
these important debates. Genetics, el nino and environmental conditions
are iffy, but may occasionally play a small role.

I have no hope that this helps to (en)lighten the load. Arch

Fortiter,


http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Peter Teubel wrote:
Your best bet would be a slow speed Woodcraft grinder and the
Wolverine jig setup. The grinder comes with the proper stones for
sharpening and the Wolverine jig is the defacto industry standard.
Remember, you'll be sharpening your turning tools several times per
hour (in my case, its every 2 minutes or so). If you want an
all-in-one sharpening system, the Tormek is the way to go, but you'll
find that shrpening your turning tools on it a slow process (but a
superior edge).

Peter Teubel
Milford, MA
http://www.revolutionary-turners.com


That's the direction I was heading. Thanks to all then for the suggestions
and help.

Mike