Well, I now have my lathe, a big pile of mesquite, and a Sorby 1/2"
fingernail bowl gouge. My problem is the gouge. It needs to be sharpened. I
tried by hand on my 8" grinder and the results are ugly. I used a very light
touch and did not mess up the profile, but it's obvious that if I do it this
way a couple more times I will mess it up. Local Rockler has a week turn
around on sharpening. I'm thinking jig at this point. Cost IS a
consideration right now. Any suggestions on what and where to buy one?

Thanks,
Wayne in Phoenix

Wayne,

I'm sure you'll gets lots of advice. But I'm a big fan of the Wolverine
system and can very quickly do a gouge with very consistent results. I
would also highly recommend the sharpening video put out by AAW. There
are four turners showing the correct way of sharpening each of the major
turning tools. John Jordan does the gouges and uses a Wolverine
system. I had trouble as well but after viewing the JJ portion of this
video, all was revealed and it works like a dream very time. I've got
mine mounted under a high speed grinder with 6 inch Norton wheels.

Hope this helps


--
George L. Tanty
Santa Fe, NM

Well, I now have my lathe, a big pile of mesquite, and a Sorby 1/2"
fingernail bowl gouge. My problem is the gouge. It needs to be
sharpened. I tried by hand on my 8" grinder and the results are
ugly. Local Rockler has a week turn around on sharpening. I'm
thinking jig at this point. Any suggestions on what and where to
buy one?

Wayne,


Go to Darrell Feltmate's home page http://www.aroundthewoods.com/ and check
out his section on sharpening. He has built the equivalent of the Oneway
Wolverine system with their Varigrind jig. Ultra simple but well thought
out. You should be able to make copies of his jigs for less that $20 (my
estimate) and repeatably sharpening that bowl gouge in no time. It is a
great site.

Hope this helps,

Harry

The jig and fixture shown are very good. Maybe I should have a setup
similar to the one shown. However after talking to many experienced turners
who own a Oneway
Wolverine system of its equivalent I soon learned that they do not use it
all the time.
When turning a 10" bowl blank I have to sharpen my gouge 2-4 times. The
overall length of the tools to be sharpened are not always the same and the
system requires adjustments to maintain the desired angle. What I made is
an adjustable stand as shown in Brian Clifford notes. One side of the
grinder is set at 45 degrees for the gouges and the other side is set for
the scrapper angle. I hold the tool parallel to the angle guide and
perpendicular to the grinder wheel then I rotate the gouge as required. I
takes me about 10-20 seconds. For the scapers I do the same thing but
rotate the tool from left to right.
Some parting tools may require different settings on the adjustable
platform. Last week I visited an 84 years old woodturner. He uses 12
inches wheel without any guiding devises.

"Harry B. Pye" wrote in message
roups.com...
Well, I now have my lathe, a big pile of mesquite, and a Sorby 1/2"
fingernail bowl gouge. My problem is the gouge. It needs to be
sharpened. I tried by hand on my 8" grinder and the results are
ugly. Local Rockler has a week turn around on sharpening. I'm
thinking jig at this point. Any suggestions on what and where to
buy one?

Wayne,


Go to Darrell Feltmate's home page http://www.aroundthewoods.com/ and
check
out his section on sharpening. He has built the equivalent of the Oneway
Wolverine system with their Varigrind jig. Ultra simple but well thought
out. You should be able to make copies of his jigs for less that $20 (my
estimate) and repeatably sharpening that bowl gouge in no time. It is a
great site.

Hope this helps,

Harry

There are some videos you can download on the Oneway site showing the
Wolverine/Varigrind jigs in action.
http://www.oneway.on.ca/multi-media.htm

and for another home made jig check Jean Michels page for woodturning jigs
http://www.jeanmichel.org/woodturnjigs.htm

"RW" wrote:

Well, I now have my lathe, a big pile of mesquite, and a Sorby 1/2"
fingernail bowl gouge. My problem is the gouge. It needs to be sharpened. I
tried by hand on my 8" grinder and the results are ugly. I used a very light
touch and did not mess up the profile, but it's obvious that if I do it this
way a couple more times I will mess it up. Local Rockler has a week turn
around on sharpening. I'm thinking jig at this point. Cost IS a
consideration right now. Any suggestions on what and where to buy one?

Thanks,
Wayne in Phoenix

RW wrote:
.... and a Sorby 1/2"
fingernail bowl gouge. My problem is the gouge. It needs to be sharpened. I
tried by hand on my 8" grinder and the results are ugly.

My advise to anyone who has spent money buying a gouge with a
speciality-grind is to either take close-up photos or careful drawings
of it before you use it or take it to the grinder. Even with a
sharpening jig, it may not be very long before the edge of the tool
bears little resemblance to how it was when bought. One of the
fundamental skills involved in sharpening is knowing the exact shape you
are aiming for.

The only supplier I know of who has done this right is Melvyn Firmager.
He supplies a set of pewter models of the custom grinds he sells for
natural edge and hollow vessel work.

One of the first things I explain to students who ask about purchasing
bowl gouges is that what you are really buying is the flute, rather than
any fancy grind the manufacturer has applied. It really annoys me that
so few catalogs show the cross section of the flute but make such a big
deal about the grind.


--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
Wedding Favors ~ Artisan Crafted Gifts ~ One-of-a-Kind Woodturning

I am an old woodworker but have been turning less than one year. From what
I have seen from this group, I am not alone in realizing that gouge
sharpening is a difficult skill that has to be mastered. I have not.

I visited Turn about wood (www.turnaboutwood.com) in Kansas City a several
weeks ago and asked about sharpening aids. Dan Moreno took me back to their
classroom/demo shop, handed me a couple of dull gouges and talked me through
sharpening them myself using the Wolverine system. The first time I touched
the system produced very nice results. My wife watched and I suspect the
birthday fairy is going to drop a system off in a few weeks.

By the way, Darrell Feltmate's shop made jig http://www.aroundthewoods.com/
looks like it incorporates the same geometry lesson as the Wolverine.

Wed, 1 Sep 2004 13:51:58 -0700, "RW" wrote:

Well, I now have my lathe, a big pile of mesquite, and a Sorby 1/2"
fingernail bowl gouge. My problem is the gouge. It needs to be sharpened. I
tried by hand on my 8" grinder and the results are ugly. I used a very light
touch and did not mess up the profile, but it's obvious that if I do it this
way a couple more times I will mess it up. Local Rockler has a week turn
around on sharpening. I'm thinking jig at this point. Cost IS a
consideration right now. Any suggestions on what and where to buy one?

Thanks,
Wayne in Phoenix


You've gotten good advise for the Wolverine system. This'll work
great since you've already got a bench grinder. But there's also
another route.

First, a disclaimer. I am not affiliated with any toolmaker or seller
of any kind. I'm only a satisfied user.

I use the Tormek system. With the appropriate jigs, it'll reliably
sharpen the same profile time after time. If you want, it'll also
reshape the profile to something else, and then be repeatable to that
new profile. The Tormek's problem is that it's expensive. I got over
that a long time ago. This isn't to say it's perfect, but for turning
tools, I don't think there's any better.

You can get one online at www.sharptools.com There's otherplaces
too, like Woodcraft.

RW" wrote in message ...
Well, I now have my lathe, a big pile of mesquite, and a Sorby 1/2"
fingernail bowl gouge. My problem is the gouge. It needs to be sharpened.
I
tried by hand on my 8" grinder and the results are ugly. I used a very
light
touch and did not mess up the profile, but it's obvious that if I do it
this
way a couple more times I will mess it up. Local Rockler has a week turn
around on sharpening. I'm thinking jig at this point. Cost IS a
consideration right now. Any suggestions on what and where to buy one?

Thanks,
Wayne in Phoenix

Wayne,

I'm a newbie turner also and had suffered through 6 months of trying to
sharpen my tools by hand. Whew. The result was dull tools with multiple
edges on the bevel. My brother-n-law can take a gouge, put it on the grinder
free hand and get a perfect grind with very sharp edge. However, I am the
opposite extreme and could not master that free hand technique so I just
recently purchased the Wolverine Grinding jig. Now that it's mounted under
my grinder, I can produce a perfect grind with very sharp edge. It was
amazing to me how easy it was on the first attempt. You can get this from
Woodcraft at the following URL:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/p...6598E23D 394A

I had also looked at Darrell Feltmate's homeade jig shown on his web page
http://www.aroundthewoods.com/sharp.shtml. It works basically like the
Wolverine. I just preferred to spend my time turning instead of building a
jig, so I opted to purchase one. The Wolverine fit the bill. Not too
expensive but produces great results. Either way.....build or
buy.....you'll benefit greatly a jig.

It's truly amazing how much better my turnings look and how much easier it
is to turn with sharp tools! Probably safer too! Get a jig.

Happy turning,
Walker

I took the plunge on a Tormek as well. IMHO, it is invaluable for a
beginner, because I can spend my time learning to turn, rather than learning
to sharpen. I have found some limitations to the system, but very few. Once
I become a competent turner, perhaps I'll learn to free-hand grind my tools.
Until then, I love my Tormek.

"Lazarus Long" wrote in message
...
I use the Tormek system. With the appropriate jigs, it'll reliably
sharpen the same profile time after time. If you want, it'll also
reshape the profile to something else, and then be repeatable to that
new profile. The Tormek's problem is that it's expensive. I got over
that a long time ago. This isn't to say it's perfect, but for turning
tools, I don't think there's any better.

You can get one online at www.sharptools.com There's otherplaces
too, like Woodcraft.


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On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 22:56:22 GMT, "Alan Van Art"
wrote:

I took the plunge on a Tormek as well. IMHO, it is invaluable for a
beginner, because I can spend my time learning to turn, rather than learning
to sharpen. I have found some limitations to the system, but very few. Once
I become a competent turner, perhaps I'll learn to free-hand grind my tools.
Until then, I love my Tormek.

What sort of limitations have you found? In my case, I think the
hollow grind it produces on a chisel leaves a weaker cutting edge, so
I'll take it over to a high grit waterstone for a few laps. That
seems to put enough flat on it to keep the edge from dulling quite as
fast. This could apply to a plane iron too, but those don't get
exactly the same use as a chisel.

For turning tools, those are sharpened way more frequently anyway, and
the grind is not so easy to do without a jig.

BTW, it's my opinion that if one uses a jig, they'll never acquire the
skill to hand hold the tool for sharpening. I don't see a problem
there, after all, that's what a Tormek (or Wolverine) is all about.





"Lazarus Long" wrote in message
.. .
I use the Tormek system. With the appropriate jigs, it'll reliably
sharpen the same profile time after time. If you want, it'll also
reshape the profile to something else, and then be repeatable to that
new profile. The Tormek's problem is that it's expensive. I got over
that a long time ago. This isn't to say it's perfect, but for turning
tools, I don't think there's any better.

You can get one online at www.sharptools.com There's otherplaces
too, like Woodcraft.

I don't see a problem with the hollow grind, it's less 'hollow' than
the grind from other wheels anyway. The limitations I find are mostly
with short tools. I have a few that I got second hand that are too
short to use the appropriate jig. Plus I have tried to sharpen pocket
knives and such with it that wouldn't fit the knife jig because they
were too small in one dimension or another. Another thing you might
call a limitation is how long it takes the change a profile on a tool.
Of course, grinding slowly also means your tools might last a bit
longer, since you're taking off less material for each sharpening. I
don't think there are any jigs for some of the specialty tools
available either. Like the beading tools that some people were
recommending to me in another thread, I don't know how you would
sharpen them. It won't do double-bit axes, naturally that's the only
axe I have. Or ring tools, or some hollowing tools... I love my
Tormek, and would buy it again, but it isn't the end-all sharpening
solution.

Lazarus Long wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 22:56:22 GMT, "Alan Van Art"
wrote:

I took the plunge on a Tormek as well. IMHO, it is invaluable for a
beginner, because I can spend my time learning to turn, rather than learning
to sharpen. I have found some limitations to the system, but very few. Once
I become a competent turner, perhaps I'll learn to free-hand grind my tools.
Until then, I love my Tormek.

What sort of limitations have you found? In my case, I think the
hollow grind it produces on a chisel leaves a weaker cutting edge, so
I'll take it over to a high grit waterstone for a few laps. That
seems to put enough flat on it to keep the edge from dulling quite as
fast. This could apply to a plane iron too, but those don't get
exactly the same use as a chisel.

For turning tools, those are sharpened way more frequently anyway, and
the grind is not so easy to do without a jig.

BTW, it's my opinion that if one uses a jig, they'll never acquire the
skill to hand hold the tool for sharpening. I don't see a problem
there, after all, that's what a Tormek (or Wolverine) is all about.





"Lazarus Long" wrote in message
.. .
I use the Tormek system. With the appropriate jigs, it'll reliably
sharpen the same profile time after time. If you want, it'll also
reshape the profile to something else, and then be repeatable to that
new profile. The Tormek's problem is that it's expensive. I got over
that a long time ago. This isn't to say it's perfect, but for turning
tools, I don't think there's any better.

You can get one online at www.sharptools.com There's otherplaces
too, like Woodcraft.

Here are some of the things that have helped me around a few of the
limitations you have encountered.

The relatively recent and inexpensive Short Tool Jig (SVS-32) helps a
lot to deal with a fairly wide range of shorter shank and/or miniature
tools.

Get a second Torlock Tool Rest (SVD-110) and cut it down to half its
forward to back width (narrow it too if you need to) and this will allow
you to deal with short shaft scrapers. If you think you will ever wish
to sharpen scissors, get the scissors jig and temporarily remove the
locking plate clamps. This will give you a shallower table without
having to cut down a the full size toolrest.

I usually deal with my ring style hollowing tips on a verticle belt
sander, but you can sharpen them quite effectively on a Tormek as well
using a narrower table (either approach above) and using it vertically
oriented in the vertical tool support. Angle the table enough to give
you the desired bevel. This is actually a very effective means to deal
with all but the very smallest ring tips (the very small Termite tip).
This is also the technique that works well dealing with carving and
chair making scorps. You can use the adapter shaft from the SVD-185
Gouge Jig to help hold the rings if you need to.

With reference to the latter, for other small hollowing tool bits, the
rod now included with the SVD-185 Gouge Jig is available in an upgrade
kit for the older 180 models. It helps mount those small hollowing tool
cutting bits, though I must admit I still prefer using a vertical belt
sander for this purpose.

As for the knife jigs, you can again get a regular knife jig (SVM-45)
and use a dry grinder or sander to narrower it to accompdate your blade.
You may also find the above mentioned scissor jig will work to hold such
smaller blades.

While free hand sharpening is not as easy to do on the Tormek because of
its slow speed (thus requiring a steadier hand to hold the tool in
position for a longer time) it is ofen feasible. There is no tool I can
readily think of that can be sharpened on a dry grinder that can't be
sharpened free hand on a Tormek. Usually with the assistance of a
vertically or horizontally oriented table you can obtain the support
necessary to compensate for the slow speed.

The biggest problem with the Tormek as how long it takes to make major
profile/geometry changes. This can be helped slightly by getting a
T-handle flat face style diamond dresser and use this to dress the face
of the stone to a coarser surface than the stone grader will do. This
will make the stone more agressive for a short while. In the end, for
major changes, some form of dry grinder or sharpener is desirable. This
can be a very inexpensive unit such as the $50 6 inch Delta Grinder, or
the inexpensive (if you can salvage an appliance motor) vertical belt
sharpening station from Lee Valley.

I agree the Tormek is certainly not a perfect machine, but it is almost
surely the most versatile sharpening system out there, and with a little
imagination and experimentation can sharpen tools of an even greater
range than already expected

Alan Van Art wrote:
snip

The limitations I find are mostly
with short tools. I have a few that I got second hand that are too
short to use the appropriate jig. Plus I have tried to sharpen pocket
knives and such with it that wouldn't fit the knife jig because they
were too small in one dimension or another. Another thing you might
call a limitation is how long it takes the change a profile on a tool.
Of course, grinding slowly also means your tools might last a bit
longer, since you're taking off less material for each sharpening. I
don't think there are any jigs for some of the specialty tools
available either. Like the beading tools that some people were
recommending to me in another thread, I don't know how you would
sharpen them. It won't do double-bit axes, naturally that's the only
axe I have. Or ring tools, or some hollowing tools...
snip

Ah, I see. I simply haven't run into those situations. Some of my
chisels are sorta short, but I'm managing to get them in a holder
(just barely) for sharpening.

I hadn't considered beading tools. They could be a problem.

I have changed a profile on a bowl gouge, to me it didn't seem to
take too long. But maybe my change wasn't so severe.

You're right. When you think about it, it won't cover *every*
situation.


On 3 Sep 2004 08:22:24 -0700, (Alan Van Art)
wrote:

I don't see a problem with the hollow grind, it's less 'hollow' than
the grind from other wheels anyway. The limitations I find are mostly
with short tools. I have a few that I got second hand that are too
short to use the appropriate jig. Plus I have tried to sharpen pocket
knives and such with it that wouldn't fit the knife jig because they
were too small in one dimension or another. Another thing you might
call a limitation is how long it takes the change a profile on a tool.
Of course, grinding slowly also means your tools might last a bit
longer, since you're taking off less material for each sharpening. I
don't think there are any jigs for some of the specialty tools
available either. Like the beading tools that some people were
recommending to me in another thread, I don't know how you would
sharpen them. It won't do double-bit axes, naturally that's the only
axe I have. Or ring tools, or some hollowing tools... I love my
Tormek, and would buy it again, but it isn't the end-all sharpening
solution.

Lazarus Long wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 22:56:22 GMT, "Alan Van Art"
wrote:

I took the plunge on a Tormek as well. IMHO, it is invaluable for a
beginner, because I can spend my time learning to turn, rather than learning
to sharpen. I have found some limitations to the system, but very few. Once
I become a competent turner, perhaps I'll learn to free-hand grind my tools.
Until then, I love my Tormek.

What sort of limitations have you found? In my case, I think the
hollow grind it produces on a chisel leaves a weaker cutting edge, so
I'll take it over to a high grit waterstone for a few laps. That
seems to put enough flat on it to keep the edge from dulling quite as
fast. This could apply to a plane iron too, but those don't get
exactly the same use as a chisel.

For turning tools, those are sharpened way more frequently anyway, and
the grind is not so easy to do without a jig.

BTW, it's my opinion that if one uses a jig, they'll never acquire the
skill to hand hold the tool for sharpening. I don't see a problem
there, after all, that's what a Tormek (or Wolverine) is all about.





"Lazarus Long" wrote in message
.. .
I use the Tormek system. With the appropriate jigs, it'll reliably
sharpen the same profile time after time. If you want, it'll also
reshape the profile to something else, and then be repeatable to that
new profile. The Tormek's problem is that it's expensive. I got over
that a long time ago. This isn't to say it's perfect, but for turning
tools, I don't think there's any better.

You can get one online at www.sharptools.com There's otherplaces
too, like Woodcraft.

I noticed a remark considering the tool length for use in the jig.
The Woodcut Tru-grind has a much shorter body then the Canadian system and
can be used with shorter tools. It also can hold chisels up to 1 1/2"
across which neither of the other systems can do.

Ken Port Tool designer

"Alan Van Art" wrote in message
news:qyNZc.1573$ZS6.923@trndny07...
I took the plunge on a Tormek as well. IMHO, it is invaluable for a
beginner, because I can spend my time learning to turn, rather than
learning
to sharpen. I have found some limitations to the system, but very few.
Once
I become a competent turner, perhaps I'll learn to free-hand grind my
tools.
Until then, I love my Tormek.

"Lazarus Long" wrote in message
...
I use the Tormek system. With the appropriate jigs, it'll reliably
sharpen the same profile time after time. If you want, it'll also
reshape the profile to something else, and then be repeatable to that
new profile. The Tormek's problem is that it's expensive. I got over
that a long time ago. This isn't to say it's perfect, but for turning
tools, I don't think there's any better.

You can get one online at www.sharptools.com There's otherplaces
too, like Woodcraft.


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