What are people's opinion on a good MC meter?

Dan,

I only use one to keep track of green blanks that I have rough turned.
Since I never have a reliable flat surface for a pinless meter I got
the pinned model (under $40) from Woodcraft and have been very happy
with it.

"Dan Bollinger" wrote in message
m...
What are people's opinion on a good MC meter?

Waste of money, save for idle curiosity. "Be as dry as you can be" is
demonstrated by weight, varies with RH, and the meters aren't that accurate
on end grain, which pretty much limits you to the bottom of the bowl for
measurements on that shape. Not the part it's sitting on, of course,
because that's protected. Other side, being curved, is likely to produce
strange readings as well due to discontinuous fibers, even with the
inductive types.

I have never used one for my turnings, or furniture. If it still feels
cool to the touch, then it is still wet. If you forget, and leave it on
your tablesaw, and there is a rust/discolored spot there the next day,
then it is still too wet.

$1200 table saw as a moisture meter. What a concept. I can't tell you how
useful your reply is to me.


Dan

I had hoped for more constructive and useful recommendations on a moisture
meter. Oh, well. I've ordered one so no need to reply to my request for
information.

Dan

I guess that my point is that I have done without one for so long. that
I learned to do without it, kind of like the rpm indicator on my PM
3520, there isn't one, and I haven't found it necessary.
robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
I had hoped for more constructive and useful recommendations on a moisture
meter. Oh, well. I've ordered one so no need to reply to my request for
information.

Dan

I guess that my point is that I have done without one for so long. that
I learned to do without it, kind of like the rpm indicator on my PM
3520, there isn't one, and I haven't found it necessary.
robo hippy

rh, Ya see, that's what I'm talking about. I didn't ask if YOU found MC meters
useful or not. What I asked for was a recommendation on a model. Do you think
your response answers my request? Dan

Dan:

So, you really didn't want people's opinions on meters -- you wanted
some support for a buying decision you have already made? Well, I'll
respond anyway.

I ran a dry kiln for 3 or 4 years. The only reliable test for moisture
content, when drying commercially, is the weigh it, cook it until it
stops losing weight, and do the calcs. I had both pin and pin-less type
meter for "has it been through the kiln or not" testing and also to
prove to myself that meters weren't worth using for anything more
accurate than a go/no-go test. In their defense, I was drying exotics
which is a particularly tough test for these things.

With turning blanks, I weigh and record, and do it over and over until
the blank stops losing weight. The actual MC is not important, what is
is when the blank is at or near EMC.

Bill

Dan Bollinger wrote:
I had hoped for more constructive and useful recommendations on a
moisture meter. Oh, well. I've ordered one so no need to reply to my
request for information.

Dan

Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my
opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we
would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl
gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners.

However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be
interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why. Given your
knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really
have had little influence on your choice. Which one did you choose? Why?

Robo probably justifies his $1200 moisture meter by using it part time
as a table saw.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Dan Bollinger wrote:

rh, Ya see, that's what I'm talking about. I didn't ask if YOU found
MC meters useful or not. What I asked for was a recommendation on a
model. Do you think your response answers my request? Dan


db, ya see, mebbe yure the on'y one readin yur riginal kestion
thataway.

More helpful to the rest of us if you phrase the question
more carefully next time. MY response.

BjarteR

So, you really didn't want people's opinions on meters -- you wanted some
support for a buying decision you have already made? Well, I'll respond
anyway.

You assume too much. When I didn't get any recommendations here I continued my
online search, read some articles, and THEN selected a model.

I note that even with my clarification of my request you take the time to write
3 paragraphs but didn't bother to once report a make or model even though you'd
used quite a few meters.

Just so you know, I ruled out the weigh method since my turning blanks are often
200 pounds when wet.

I ran a dry kiln for 3 or 4 years. The only reliable test for moisture
content, when drying commercially, is the weigh it, cook it until it stops
losing weight, and do the calcs. I had both pin and pin-less type meter for
"has it been through the kiln or not" testing and also to prove to myself that
meters weren't worth using for anything more accurate than a go/no-go test.
In their defense, I was drying exotics which is a particularly tough test for
these things.

With turning blanks, I weigh and record, and do it over and over until the
blank stops losing weight. The actual MC is not important, what is is when
the blank is at or near EMC.

Bill

Dan Bollinger wrote:
I had hoped for more constructive and useful recommendations on a moisture
meter. Oh, well. I've ordered one so no need to reply to my request for
information.

Dan

More helpful to the rest of us if you phrase the question
more carefully next time. MY response.

BjarteR

Point well taken. I'll do that next time. Dan

Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my
opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we
would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl
gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners.

I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for
specific information on another method.

However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be
interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why.

That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at
alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to believe
that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is
good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment
even after my clarification.

Given your
knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really
have had little influence on your choice.

Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic?

Which one did you choose? Why?

I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is
adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good,
since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model
reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good
feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off MSRP.
The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60
inches.

Dan

Dan,
You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one?
robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my
opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we
would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl
gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners.

I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for
specific information on another method.

However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be
interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why.

That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at
alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to believe
that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is
good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment
even after my clarification.

Given your
knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really
have had little influence on your choice.

Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic?

Which one did you choose? Why?

I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is
adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good,
since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model
reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good
feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off MSRP.
The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60
inches.

Dan

You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one?

A solid slab, in this case walnut.


robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my
opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we
would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl
gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners.

I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for
specific information on another method.

However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be
interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why.

That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at
alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to
believe
that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is
good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment
even after my clarification.

Given your
knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really
have had little influence on your choice.

Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic?

Which one did you choose? Why?

I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is
adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good,
since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model
reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good
feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off
MSRP.
The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60
inches.

Dan

Are you trying to dry it for lumber, or a turning blank? Has it been
drying for a while, and you are trying to find out how dry it is so you
can figure out what to do next with it? Is it a full log section? Is it
a half log section? Is it a milled chunk?
I don't like to let chunks that size dry because it will crack and
check. Rough turning it helps the bowl blanks, and walnut dries with
little movement, and checking. For lumber, I would slab it up, unless
you want a big chunk to carve or whatever.
robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one?

A solid slab, in this case walnut.


robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my
opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we
would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl
gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners.

I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for
specific information on another method.

However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be
interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why.

That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at
alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to
believe
that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is
good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment
even after my clarification.

Given your
knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really
have had little influence on your choice.

Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic?

Which one did you choose? Why?

I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is
adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good,
since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model
reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good
feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off
MSRP.
The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60
inches.

Dan

Are you trying to dry it for lumber, or a turning blank? Has it been
drying for a while, and you are trying to find out how dry it is so you
can figure out what to do next with it? Is it a full log section? Is it
a half log section? Is it a milled chunk?

It's a turning blank! I wouldn't post off-topic. It dried in the log for 8
months and we slabbed it up into two pieces, removing the cant. It was not damp
to touch after cutting, but I know it can't be dry yet. I want to track the
drying before I begin turning. The reason for slabs (instead of squares) is
because these will be oval bowls.



I don't like to let chunks that size dry because it will crack and
check. Rough turning it helps the bowl blanks, and walnut dries with
little movement, and checking. For lumber, I would slab it up, unless
you want a big chunk to carve or whatever.
robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one?

A solid slab, in this case walnut.


robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my
opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we
would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl
gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners.

I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking
for
specific information on another method.

However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be
interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why.

That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank
at
alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to
believe
that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company
is
good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such
comment
even after my clarification.

Given your
knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really
have had little influence on your choice.

Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the
off-topic?

Which one did you choose? Why?

I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is
adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is
good,
since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This
model
reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another
good
feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off
MSRP.
The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x
60
inches.

Dan

Well, that explains a few things. Since the bowl is going to be oval,
are you going to turn some, and hand carve the rest? Co you have a set
up to turn oval?
In general, for air drying you figure one year per inch of thickness,
will get you down to the 12 to 15% mc. If you have hand carving to do,
do it while the wood has some moisture in it because it cuts so much
easier.
I hope you aren't offended, I am asking all the questions because I am
curious.
robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
Are you trying to dry it for lumber, or a turning blank? Has it been
drying for a while, and you are trying to find out how dry it is so you
can figure out what to do next with it? Is it a full log section? Is it
a half log section? Is it a milled chunk?

It's a turning blank! I wouldn't post off-topic. It dried in the log for 8
months and we slabbed it up into two pieces, removing the cant. It was not damp
to touch after cutting, but I know it can't be dry yet. I want to track the
drying before I begin turning. The reason for slabs (instead of squares) is
because these will be oval bowls.



I don't like to let chunks that size dry because it will crack and
check. Rough turning it helps the bowl blanks, and walnut dries with
little movement, and checking. For lumber, I would slab it up, unless
you want a big chunk to carve or whatever.
robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one?

A solid slab, in this case walnut.


robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my
opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we
would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl
gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners.

I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking
for
specific information on another method.

However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be
interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why.

That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank
at
alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to
believe
that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company
is
good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such
comment
even after my clarification.

Given your
knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really
have had little influence on your choice.

Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the
off-topic?

Which one did you choose? Why?

I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is
adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is
good,
since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This
model
reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another
good
feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off
MSRP.
The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x
60
inches.

Dan

Well, that explains a few things. Since the bowl is going to be oval,
are you going to turn some, and hand carve the rest? Co you have a set
up to turn oval?
In general, for air drying you figure one year per inch of thickness,
will get you down to the 12 to 15% mc. If you have hand carving to do,
do it while the wood has some moisture in it because it cuts so much
easier.

The bowls will be oval turned. No carving is planned. I have an oval turning
lathe. I may set up a solar or vacuum dryer to speed things along.

http://www.claycritters.com/lathe/

Dan

"Dan Bollinger" wrote:

The bowls will be oval turned. No carving is planned. I have an oval
turning lathe. I may set up a solar or vacuum dryer to speed things
along.

http://www.claycritters.com/lathe/



WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped!

Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor

WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped!

Canoe shaped is my goal. Thanks for noticing.

Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor

Yep, although I haven't measured carefully to see if it will hit the floor or
ceiling first. I do know that for these large bowls I'll have to move the
ceiling light.

I have since turned my second bowl. It is an oval 4" x 18" and 4" high. Dan

Dan:

The meters I was using were an old Delmhorst pin type and an old Wagner,
pinless. I don't have them any more and have no idea of the model
numbers. All these meters were designed to measure 4/4 lumber or maybe
8/4 in a pinch. Sticking a pin an eighth of an inch into a piece of
wood tells you nothing about what is 2 inches down, I think.

The pinless folks are most unclear about how deeply their test
penetrates. I can guess why that is.

When we checked MC for a kiln load, we didn't measure the whole load; we
measured samples. You might be able to do the same with blanks although
the thickness could be a major issue.

I don't see why you couldn't weigh a 200 lb blank. They weigh fish a
lot bigger than that every day.

Bill

Dan Bollinger wrote:
....
I note that even with my clarification of my request you take the time
to write 3 paragraphs but didn't bother to once report a make or model
even though you'd used quite a few meters.

Just so you know, I ruled out the weigh method since my turning blanks
are often 200 pounds when wet.

....

Now that is cool. Personally I wouldn't wait to turn the bowls. Walnut
is pretty stable, and you will get little movement, even with wet wood.
Now, I wonder if you could use a power sander on that lathe.
robo hippy
Dan Bollinger wrote:
WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped!

Canoe shaped is my goal. Thanks for noticing.

Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor

Yep, although I haven't measured carefully to see if it will hit the floor or
ceiling first. I do know that for these large bowls I'll have to move the
ceiling light.

I have since turned my second bowl. It is an oval 4" x 18" and 4" high. Dan

On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:35:32 -0400, "Dan Bollinger"
wrote:

Well, that explains a few things. Since the bowl is going to be oval,
are you going to turn some, and hand carve the rest? Co you have a set
up to turn oval?
In general, for air drying you figure one year per inch of thickness,
will get you down to the 12 to 15% mc. If you have hand carving to do,
do it while the wood has some moisture in it because it cuts so much
easier.

The bowls will be oval turned. No carving is planned. I have an oval turning
lathe. I may set up a solar or vacuum dryer to speed things along.

http://www.claycritters.com/lathe/

That's not the first time I've seen that machine of yours, and it
never fails to be impressive. Nice work.

I'd have liked to help with the MC question, but have never even seen
one in person, much less used one of them. Could be that others are
in the same boat.

"Dan Bollinger" wrote:

WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped!

Canoe shaped is my goal. Thanks for noticing.

You are real close! Just get the ends a wee bit more pointy.


Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor

Yep, although I haven't measured carefully to see if it will hit the
floor or ceiling first. I do know that for these large bowls I'll
have to move the ceiling light.

Thought so. I usually think of swing as the radius. Still HUGE! You'll
need to cage it so someone doesn't get whacked coming in from the side.
Sorta reminds me of starting aircraft engines the old fashioned way. I
imagine the pucker factor will be similar. )


I have since turned my second bowl. It is an oval 4" x 18" and 4"
high. Dan

"Dan Bollinger" wrote:

WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped!

Canoe shaped is my goal. Thanks for noticing.

Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor

Yep, although I haven't measured carefully to see if it will hit the
floor or ceiling first. I do know that for these large bowls I'll
have to move the ceiling light.

I have since turned my second bowl. It is an oval 4" x 18" and 4"
high. Dan



I got to thinking about that propeller analogy I made in my previous post.
The lathe IS bolted down, right? Have you given any thought to the
aerodynamics of really long and narrow bowls?

That's not the first time I've seen that machine of yours, and it
never fails to be impressive. Nice work.

Thanks!

I'd have liked to help with the MC question, but have never even seen
one in person, much less used one of them. Could be that others are
in the same boat.

I'm sure that most of us don't use them, I was hoping to find one or two who
had.

Dan

Thought so. I usually think of swing as the radius.

Swing is the largest diameter a lathe can turn inboard.

Still HUGE! You'll
need to cage it so someone doesn't get whacked coming in from the side.
Sorta reminds me of starting aircraft engines the old fashioned way. I
imagine the pucker factor will be similar. )

The work only turns at about 50 rpm and all the flayling about is on the
backside. On the frontside, where the cutting happens, the motion is more like
that of plain turning. In fact, at the front centerline there is no
back-and-forth motion, otherwise you could cut an oval. Take a look at one of
the videos I have.

Dan

Dan Bollinger wrote:
That's not the first time I've seen that machine of yours, and it
never fails to be impressive. Nice work.


Thanks!

I'd have liked to help with the MC question, but have never even seen
one in person, much less used one of them. Could be that others are
in the same boat.


I'm sure that most of us don't use them, I was hoping to find one or two
who had.

Dan

Hi dan,

I have the Lignomat "mini Ligno E" that I use primarily for checking air
dried flat stock that I use for case work. It's the only one I've ever
used.

I've never had a way of checking its accuracy, but by comparing the
reading of the air dried stock to that of kiln dried stock of the same
species I've never had a problem.

The meter sells for about $100. See:

http://www.lignomat.com/handheld/miniE.htm

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

(Remove -SPAM- to send email)

"no(SPAM)vasys" wrote in message
...

I've never had a way of checking its accuracy, but by comparing the
reading of the air dried stock to that of kiln dried stock of the same
species I've never had a problem.


You always have a way of checking its accuracy. 150 degree oven until the
measured piece ceases to lose moisture (by weight) and compute. That's how
they developed those corrections you refer to for different species.