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Moisture Content Meter?
What are people's opinion on a good MC meter?
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Moisture Content Meter?
Dan, I only use one to keep track of green blanks that I have rough turned. Since I never have a reliable flat surface for a pinless meter I got the pinned model (under $40) from Woodcraft and have been very happy with it. |
Moisture Content Meter?
"Dan Bollinger" wrote in message m... What are people's opinion on a good MC meter? Waste of money, save for idle curiosity. "Be as dry as you can be" is demonstrated by weight, varies with RH, and the meters aren't that accurate on end grain, which pretty much limits you to the bottom of the bowl for measurements on that shape. Not the part it's sitting on, of course, because that's protected. Other side, being curved, is likely to produce strange readings as well due to discontinuous fibers, even with the inductive types. |
Moisture Content Meter?
I have never used one for my turnings, or furniture. If it still feels
cool to the touch, then it is still wet. If you forget, and leave it on your tablesaw, and there is a rust/discolored spot there the next day, then it is still too wet. $1200 table saw as a moisture meter. What a concept. I can't tell you how useful your reply is to me. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
I had hoped for more constructive and useful recommendations on a moisture
meter. Oh, well. I've ordered one so no need to reply to my request for information. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
I guess that my point is that I have done without one for so long. that
I learned to do without it, kind of like the rpm indicator on my PM 3520, there isn't one, and I haven't found it necessary. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: I had hoped for more constructive and useful recommendations on a moisture meter. Oh, well. I've ordered one so no need to reply to my request for information. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
I guess that my point is that I have done without one for so long. that
I learned to do without it, kind of like the rpm indicator on my PM 3520, there isn't one, and I haven't found it necessary. robo hippy rh, Ya see, that's what I'm talking about. I didn't ask if YOU found MC meters useful or not. What I asked for was a recommendation on a model. Do you think your response answers my request? Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Dan:
So, you really didn't want people's opinions on meters -- you wanted some support for a buying decision you have already made? Well, I'll respond anyway. I ran a dry kiln for 3 or 4 years. The only reliable test for moisture content, when drying commercially, is the weigh it, cook it until it stops losing weight, and do the calcs. I had both pin and pin-less type meter for "has it been through the kiln or not" testing and also to prove to myself that meters weren't worth using for anything more accurate than a go/no-go test. In their defense, I was drying exotics which is a particularly tough test for these things. With turning blanks, I weigh and record, and do it over and over until the blank stops losing weight. The actual MC is not important, what is is when the blank is at or near EMC. Bill Dan Bollinger wrote: I had hoped for more constructive and useful recommendations on a moisture meter. Oh, well. I've ordered one so no need to reply to my request for information. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my
opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners. However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why. Given your knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really have had little influence on your choice. Which one did you choose? Why? Robo probably justifies his $1200 moisture meter by using it part time as a table saw. :) Turn to Safety, Arch Fortiter http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings |
Moisture Content Meter?
Dan Bollinger wrote:
rh, Ya see, that's what I'm talking about. I didn't ask if YOU found MC meters useful or not. What I asked for was a recommendation on a model. Do you think your response answers my request? Dan db, ya see, mebbe yure the on'y one readin yur riginal kestion thataway. More helpful to the rest of us if you phrase the question more carefully next time. MY response. BjarteR |
Moisture Content Meter?
So, you really didn't want people's opinions on meters -- you wanted some
support for a buying decision you have already made? Well, I'll respond anyway. You assume too much. When I didn't get any recommendations here I continued my online search, read some articles, and THEN selected a model. I note that even with my clarification of my request you take the time to write 3 paragraphs but didn't bother to once report a make or model even though you'd used quite a few meters. Just so you know, I ruled out the weigh method since my turning blanks are often 200 pounds when wet. I ran a dry kiln for 3 or 4 years. The only reliable test for moisture content, when drying commercially, is the weigh it, cook it until it stops losing weight, and do the calcs. I had both pin and pin-less type meter for "has it been through the kiln or not" testing and also to prove to myself that meters weren't worth using for anything more accurate than a go/no-go test. In their defense, I was drying exotics which is a particularly tough test for these things. With turning blanks, I weigh and record, and do it over and over until the blank stops losing weight. The actual MC is not important, what is is when the blank is at or near EMC. Bill Dan Bollinger wrote: I had hoped for more constructive and useful recommendations on a moisture meter. Oh, well. I've ordered one so no need to reply to my request for information. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
More helpful to the rest of us if you phrase the question
more carefully next time. MY response. BjarteR Point well taken. I'll do that next time. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my
opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners. I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for specific information on another method. However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why. That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to believe that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment even after my clarification. Given your knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really have had little influence on your choice. Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic? Which one did you choose? Why? I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good, since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off MSRP. The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60 inches. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Dan,
You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one? robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners. I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for specific information on another method. However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why. That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to believe that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment even after my clarification. Given your knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really have had little influence on your choice. Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic? Which one did you choose? Why? I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good, since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off MSRP. The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60 inches. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one?
A solid slab, in this case walnut. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners. I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for specific information on another method. However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why. That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to believe that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment even after my clarification. Given your knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really have had little influence on your choice. Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic? Which one did you choose? Why? I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good, since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off MSRP. The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60 inches. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Are you trying to dry it for lumber, or a turning blank? Has it been
drying for a while, and you are trying to find out how dry it is so you can figure out what to do next with it? Is it a full log section? Is it a half log section? Is it a milled chunk? I don't like to let chunks that size dry because it will crack and check. Rough turning it helps the bowl blanks, and walnut dries with little movement, and checking. For lumber, I would slab it up, unless you want a big chunk to carve or whatever. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one? A solid slab, in this case walnut. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners. I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for specific information on another method. However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why. That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to believe that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment even after my clarification. Given your knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really have had little influence on your choice. Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic? Which one did you choose? Why? I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good, since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off MSRP. The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60 inches. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Are you trying to dry it for lumber, or a turning blank? Has it been
drying for a while, and you are trying to find out how dry it is so you can figure out what to do next with it? Is it a full log section? Is it a half log section? Is it a milled chunk? It's a turning blank! I wouldn't post off-topic. ;) It dried in the log for 8 months and we slabbed it up into two pieces, removing the cant. It was not damp to touch after cutting, but I know it can't be dry yet. I want to track the drying before I begin turning. The reason for slabs (instead of squares) is because these will be oval bowls. I don't like to let chunks that size dry because it will crack and check. Rough turning it helps the bowl blanks, and walnut dries with little movement, and checking. For lumber, I would slab it up, unless you want a big chunk to carve or whatever. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one? A solid slab, in this case walnut. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners. I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for specific information on another method. However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why. That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to believe that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment even after my clarification. Given your knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really have had little influence on your choice. Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic? Which one did you choose? Why? I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good, since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off MSRP. The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60 inches. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Well, that explains a few things. Since the bowl is going to be oval,
are you going to turn some, and hand carve the rest? Co you have a set up to turn oval? In general, for air drying you figure one year per inch of thickness, will get you down to the 12 to 15% mc. If you have hand carving to do, do it while the wood has some moisture in it because it cuts so much easier. I hope you aren't offended, I am asking all the questions because I am curious. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: Are you trying to dry it for lumber, or a turning blank? Has it been drying for a while, and you are trying to find out how dry it is so you can figure out what to do next with it? Is it a full log section? Is it a half log section? Is it a milled chunk? It's a turning blank! I wouldn't post off-topic. ;) It dried in the log for 8 months and we slabbed it up into two pieces, removing the cant. It was not damp to touch after cutting, but I know it can't be dry yet. I want to track the drying before I begin turning. The reason for slabs (instead of squares) is because these will be oval bowls. I don't like to let chunks that size dry because it will crack and check. Rough turning it helps the bowl blanks, and walnut dries with little movement, and checking. For lumber, I would slab it up, unless you want a big chunk to carve or whatever. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: You have 200 lb blanks? Is this a solid blank, or a hollowed out one? A solid slab, in this case walnut. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: Hi Dan, I think Robo's answer was constructive, probably because it's my opinion too. Anyway constructive or not, it's the the same opinion we would have given if you had asked our opinions re a good pot metal bowl gouge. IMHO there aren't any good ones for woodturners. I'm pleased you have a method that works for you, Arch, and I was looking for specific information on another method. However since many turners do find moisture meters useful, it would be interesting to learn what meter they are using; how & why. That was my thinking as well. I thought I could tap into the think-tank at alt.woodturning. I have provided answers to others and had no reason to believe that I wouldn't be reading about how good this model is, how this company is good for servicing, stay away from this type, etc. But not one such comment even after my clarification. Given your knowledge and ability, I suspect people's opinions here would really have had little influence on your choice. Maybe. But is that a reason to withhold information or change the off-topic? Which one did you choose? Why? I bought the Wagner 220. It is an inductive type (not a pin-type). It is adjustable for wood density and has an extended scale to 30%, which is good, since it will let me make that important first reading sooner. This model reads internally to 3/4" which is deeper than a pin model would, another good feature. Couldn't find one on eBay, so bought it at Amazon.com for $40 off MSRP. The wood I'm drying are slabs ranging from 3 x 10 x 36 inches to 6 x 20 x 60 inches. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Well, that explains a few things. Since the bowl is going to be oval,
are you going to turn some, and hand carve the rest? Co you have a set up to turn oval? In general, for air drying you figure one year per inch of thickness, will get you down to the 12 to 15% mc. If you have hand carving to do, do it while the wood has some moisture in it because it cuts so much easier. The bowls will be oval turned. No carving is planned. I have an oval turning lathe. I may set up a solar or vacuum dryer to speed things along. http://www.claycritters.com/lathe/ Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
"Dan Bollinger" wrote:
The bowls will be oval turned. No carving is planned. I have an oval turning lathe. I may set up a solar or vacuum dryer to speed things along. http://www.claycritters.com/lathe/ WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped! Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor |
Moisture Content Meter?
WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped!
Canoe shaped is my goal. :) Thanks for noticing. Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor Yep, although I haven't measured carefully to see if it will hit the floor or ceiling first. I do know that for these large bowls I'll have to move the ceiling light. :) I have since turned my second bowl. It is an oval 4" x 18" and 4" high. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Dan:
The meters I was using were an old Delmhorst pin type and an old Wagner, pinless. I don't have them any more and have no idea of the model numbers. All these meters were designed to measure 4/4 lumber or maybe 8/4 in a pinch. Sticking a pin an eighth of an inch into a piece of wood tells you nothing about what is 2 inches down, I think. The pinless folks are most unclear about how deeply their test penetrates. I can guess why that is. When we checked MC for a kiln load, we didn't measure the whole load; we measured samples. You might be able to do the same with blanks although the thickness could be a major issue. I don't see why you couldn't weigh a 200 lb blank. They weigh fish a lot bigger than that every day. Bill Dan Bollinger wrote: .... I note that even with my clarification of my request you take the time to write 3 paragraphs but didn't bother to once report a make or model even though you'd used quite a few meters. Just so you know, I ruled out the weigh method since my turning blanks are often 200 pounds when wet. .... |
Moisture Content Meter?
Now that is cool. Personally I wouldn't wait to turn the bowls. Walnut
is pretty stable, and you will get little movement, even with wet wood. Now, I wonder if you could use a power sander on that lathe. robo hippy Dan Bollinger wrote: WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped! Canoe shaped is my goal. :) Thanks for noticing. Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor Yep, although I haven't measured carefully to see if it will hit the floor or ceiling first. I do know that for these large bowls I'll have to move the ceiling light. :) I have since turned my second bowl. It is an oval 4" x 18" and 4" high. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
On Fri, 9 Jun 2006 17:35:32 -0400, "Dan Bollinger"
wrote: Well, that explains a few things. Since the bowl is going to be oval, are you going to turn some, and hand carve the rest? Co you have a set up to turn oval? In general, for air drying you figure one year per inch of thickness, will get you down to the 12 to 15% mc. If you have hand carving to do, do it while the wood has some moisture in it because it cuts so much easier. The bowls will be oval turned. No carving is planned. I have an oval turning lathe. I may set up a solar or vacuum dryer to speed things along. http://www.claycritters.com/lathe/ That's not the first time I've seen that machine of yours, and it never fails to be impressive. Nice work. I'd have liked to help with the MC question, but have never even seen one in person, much less used one of them. Could be that others are in the same boat. |
Moisture Content Meter?
"Dan Bollinger" wrote:
WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped! Canoe shaped is my goal. :) Thanks for noticing. You are real close! Just get the ends a wee bit more pointy. Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor Yep, although I haven't measured carefully to see if it will hit the floor or ceiling first. I do know that for these large bowls I'll have to move the ceiling light. :) Thought so. I usually think of swing as the radius. Still HUGE! You'll need to cage it so someone doesn't get whacked coming in from the side. Sorta reminds me of starting aircraft engines the old fashioned way. I imagine the pucker factor will be similar. :o) I have since turned my second bowl. It is an oval 4" x 18" and 4" high. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
"Dan Bollinger" wrote:
WOW!! That first bowl is dang near boat shaped! Canoe shaped is my goal. :) Thanks for noticing. Swing 82"? Do you mean 41" - over the floor Yep, although I haven't measured carefully to see if it will hit the floor or ceiling first. I do know that for these large bowls I'll have to move the ceiling light. :) I have since turned my second bowl. It is an oval 4" x 18" and 4" high. Dan I got to thinking about that propeller analogy I made in my previous post. The lathe IS bolted down, right? Have you given any thought to the aerodynamics of really long and narrow bowls? |
Moisture Content Meter?
That's not the first time I've seen that machine of yours, and it
never fails to be impressive. Nice work. Thanks! I'd have liked to help with the MC question, but have never even seen one in person, much less used one of them. Could be that others are in the same boat. I'm sure that most of us don't use them, I was hoping to find one or two who had. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Thought so. I usually think of swing as the radius.
Swing is the largest diameter a lathe can turn inboard. Still HUGE! You'll need to cage it so someone doesn't get whacked coming in from the side. Sorta reminds me of starting aircraft engines the old fashioned way. I imagine the pucker factor will be similar. :o) The work only turns at about 50 rpm and all the flayling about is on the backside. On the frontside, where the cutting happens, the motion is more like that of plain turning. In fact, at the front centerline there is no back-and-forth motion, otherwise you could cut an oval. Take a look at one of the videos I have. Dan |
Moisture Content Meter?
Dan Bollinger wrote:
That's not the first time I've seen that machine of yours, and it never fails to be impressive. Nice work. Thanks! I'd have liked to help with the MC question, but have never even seen one in person, much less used one of them. Could be that others are in the same boat. I'm sure that most of us don't use them, I was hoping to find one or two who had. Dan Hi dan, I have the Lignomat "mini Ligno E" that I use primarily for checking air dried flat stock that I use for case work. It's the only one I've ever used. I've never had a way of checking its accuracy, but by comparing the reading of the air dried stock to that of kiln dried stock of the same species I've never had a problem. The meter sells for about $100. See: http://www.lignomat.com/handheld/miniE.htm -- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove -SPAM- to send email) |
Moisture Content Meter?
"no(SPAM)vasys" wrote in message ... I've never had a way of checking its accuracy, but by comparing the reading of the air dried stock to that of kiln dried stock of the same species I've never had a problem. You always have a way of checking its accuracy. 150 degree oven until the measured piece ceases to lose moisture (by weight) and compute. That's how they developed those corrections you refer to for different species. |
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