Sometimes I drill a mortise in a blank for expansion chucking to my
fixed headstock lathe by using drill press and Forstner bit. Is there a
way to drill a reasonably concentric second mortise on the other side of
the blank for reverse turning?

Sorry for my confusing "Who's on first?" description. I mean with no
more eccentricity than if I had turned the second mortise with the blank
on the lathe chucked in the first mortise? I'm not saying that drilling
concentric mortises while at the drill press is a better, or even a good
way for reverse turning and I'm not concerned about the bowl's bottom.
I just want to know if and how it can be done.

I'm not even saying that turning bowls by reverse turning is the best
way; especially with today's streamlined headstocks, spindle extenders
and robust small extended chuck jaws. How many of you turn bowls without
reversing the blank? How? Why? Why not? Perhaps a better question is
When?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Hi Arch

Should be easy Arch.

Just some arbitrary sizes, OK, they can be changed to suit, and you
might have to do some machining to get close fits.

Drill a 1 1/4" hole in your blank, and set aside.

Take a short piece of pipe that fits your 1 1/4" hole in your blank and
is long enough to be clamped in your X/Y drill table vise, and stick
out above it.(can be done in other vise also)

Now make a arbor that will fit inside the pipe on one side, and turn
down to fit into drill chuck on the other end. (make the arbor long
enough to overcome the distance difference between thickness of the
blank and the drills quill travel ability)

Next put the arbor in the drill chuck and maneuver the pipe in the
drill vise until the arbor goes straight into the pipe, clamp all down.

Take the arbor out of the drill chuck and replace with the drill to be
used, place blank on the pipe in the drill vise and drill your other
mortice.

Do I do it this way ??,.... NO. , works better on my late IMO.

And never say never, I find turning a bowl in one setup akward, harder
to get a good form and cutting against the grain make for a worse
surface, then there will be this time ................ like I said !!!

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

"Arch" wrote: (clip) I just want to know if and how it can be done. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Arch, you're being Leo'd to death here. Here's how I would do it. After
drilling one side of your blank, secure a flat board to the drill press bed,
and drill a hole in it also. Go to the lathe and turn a "dowel" that is a
snug fit in the drilled hole. Insert in the hole in the board on the drill
press, slip the hole in the blank over the exposed end of the "dowel," and
drill into the other side of the blank.

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Arch" wrote: (clip) I just want to know if and how it can be done. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Arch, you're being Leo'd to death here. Here's how I would do it. After
drilling one side of your blank, secure a flat board to the drill press bed,
and drill a hole in it also. Go to the lathe and turn a "dowel" that is a
snug fit in the drilled hole. Insert in the hole in the board on the drill
press, slip the hole in the blank over the exposed end of the "dowel," and
drill into the other side of the blank.

This was my thinking too, until I thought some more.

The problem I see with this is that it assumes two things:

1- the original blank has two perfectly planed faces that are parallel
planes.

2- the blank mounts perfectly on the first drilled hole. Forstner bits
don't create a flat surface at the bottom of the hole. They are slightly
convex, the opposite of what we want for an accurate grip.

Now, I am not sure why Arch wanted to do this in the first place, but if
you can solve these two problems it might work, though I don't see the
point.

As for Arch's second question, "How many of you turn bowls without
reversing the blank?"...

"Why? Perhaps a better question is When?" - I would only consider doing
this if I was turning a very thin walled vessel where any inaccuracy in
the second mounting would result in a rim / wall thickness which is
noticeably uneven.

"How?" I generally do this on a faceplate or chuck with large jaws to
hold a tenon


"Why not?" Because cutting the outside of the bowl with the grain is
tricky. It can be done with a pulling cut and a gouge with a swept back
edge. Or with special tools. Melvyn Firmager uses his nibby gouge for
cutting against the grain and tidies up using a fresh burr on the long
curved edge of his thin parting tool. So, it can be done, buts it's not
by chosen approach.



--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

Arch
I am not sure how I would drill the holes, but I would generally not bother
so I am not much help. On the other hand I usually rough turn between
centers, including the hollowing. For the final turning I use a glue block
and finish turn from one fitting. It just seems easier to me and I do not
have to worry about concentricity when remounting.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

In article ,
(Arch) wrote:
and robust small extended chuck jaws. How many of you turn bowls without
reversing the blank? How? Why? Why not? Perhaps a better question is
When?

Well, in the "olden days" I never reverse-turned. I'd get one side of a
blank flat by some means, glue it to a backer on a faceplate with some
paper in between, turn the bowl, split off the joint, and sand off the
paper scraps.

Before _that_ I just lived with 3 screw holes in the bottoms of my
bowls, and learned to avoid making the bottom too thin.

Given various limitations of equipment and time, I've been known to
still use a faceplate, though now that I've gotten to be better equipped
for bigger chunks of log, I often reverse faceplate it (using the first
mount to turn a flat spot for the second mounting), and I eschew the
retained holes in favor of shaping most of it with a fat foot, then
parting the foot mostly off and hollowing it up a bit by using all the
space I can get at the back, followed by cutting the stub and using the
60-grit gouge to remove any traces of stub.

Things often move enough that reverse mounting means having to make a
decision about where the new circle meets the old ellipse - while that
should be no different with single mounting for the same movement, it
does not usually feel that way, or at least you know that you are
fighting wood movement rather than a lousy job of remounting.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Hi Leo, I was hoping for a really simple and easier method. I had
thought about attaching a spring center (like a Steb center) in line
with the drill's bit to seat in the indent made by the bit's tip in the
first mortise. This should center the 'other side' over the drill bit,
but with rough surfaces to sit on this wouldn't assure concentric
mortise walls and bottoms. I could seat the blank in my scroll chuck to
avoid the rough surfaces, but then I have to center the blind 'other
side' and I'm back to your method or one more complicated? I know I've
forgotten something, but isn't there an easier way with common sense,
lasers and such?

Comments & other hole finding methods requested, laughter & derision
acceptable if accompanied by a helpful adult.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

OK Arch

Simpler way, take drill press, position horizontally, call it lathe,
clamp drill bit in lathe, hold blank and drill hole for woodworm screw,
clamp woodworm screw and screw blank, drill or make the hole on the
other side, DONE GG

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

I think I understand what you are asking. First, you drill a mortice on
the top of the bowl blank. This is to secure the blank to the lathe
with a chuck while you turn the outside of the bowl. This eliminates
the need for a faceplate. You want a second mortice on the bottom to
reverse it and then turn out the inside of the bowl. This is my
standard method of bowl turning. For the mortice on the bottom, I mark
with calipers (which are super glued in place) a circle that is the
same size as my chuck jaws. I use a dovetail scraper to cut a
mortice.The angle of the dovetail matches that of my chuck jaws. You
just line up the scraper with the ways of your bed, and the angles will
match.Remove everything inside the line, then for the last cut, make
the mortice just a hair bigger than the line. The plunge cut used isn't
plunge, and then move it over to match the dove tail, but plunge at the
angle of the dove tail. At the bottom of the last cut, let the scraper
rest there for a moment or 2, just barely touching. This will remove
almost all uneveness, so that when you reverse it, it will run true.
This will get you an almost perfectly centered mortice every time. I
think that it would be impossible with a forstner bit. If I am trying
to turn very thin, then sometimes the outside will need to be trued up.
For utility bowls, there isn't enough difference to worry about,
especially if you green turn to final thickness like I do. You can also
clean up the mortice with a small spindle gouge, sand it and call it
finished if you want. If you are coring, you just leave the chuck on,
and never have to recenter anything. Also when I am coring, I will
dovetail the top mortice when I reverse the bowl the first time,
because it holds a lot better than straight walls with angled jaws.
robo hippy

"robo hippy" wrote in message
oups.com...
For the mortice on the bottom, I mark
with calipers (which are super glued in place) a circle that is the
same size as my chuck jaws. I use a dovetail scraper to cut a
mortice.

If you have one of those two-fanged thin parting tools, you can cut pretty
well into the bottom. I even angle mine in anticipation of the final tail.
Nice for those fuzzy woods like aspen or willow that don't respond well to
the pointed gouge smoothing and undercutting. The fangs do a reasonable
cut.

Nice thing about dovetails, unless you go dumb and leave fuzz sticking out
or sawdust packed in, they'll get a piece as true as your chuck. Trick is
to remember that, and if it doesn't mount perfectly, loosen and find out
what's in the way. Even I sometimes just tighten instead of doing it
properly.

In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

Sometimes I drill a mortise in a blank for expansion chucking to my
fixed headstock lathe by using drill press and Forstner bit. Is
there a way to drill a reasonably concentric second mortise on the
other side of the blank for reverse turning?
SNIP
...I'm not concerned about the bowl's bottom. I just want to know if and how it can be done.

OK, here goes - and keep in mind that you're not concerned about the
bowl's bottom:

Take a small-ish drill and bore the whole way through the blank. Then
use that bore as a guide to center the Forstner on both sides. Hmmm?

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm

Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 13:32:56 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

Sometimes I drill a mortise in a blank for expansion chucking to my
fixed headstock lathe by using drill press and Forstner bit. Is there a
way to drill a reasonably concentric second mortise on the other side of
the blank for reverse turning?

Sorry for my confusing "Who's on first?" description. I mean with no
more eccentricity than if I had turned the second mortise with the blank
on the lathe chucked in the first mortise? I'm not saying that drilling
concentric mortises while at the drill press is a better, or even a good
way for reverse turning and I'm not concerned about the bowl's bottom.
I just want to know if and how it can be done.

I'm not even saying that turning bowls by reverse turning is the best
way; especially with today's streamlined headstocks, spindle extenders
and robust small extended chuck jaws. How many of you turn bowls without
reversing the blank? How? Why? Why not? Perhaps a better question is
When?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I'm guessing here that you want to put the 2nd "hole" in the blank after you've
used the 1st hole to true the piece?
Or, are you looking for a way to drill both at once??

In the 1st case, chuck the blank using the 1st hole, true the piece, than put a
drill chuck in the tailstock and use the original bit to drill the 2nd hole..


Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

Mac, I was looking for a way to drill both with the drill press one
after the other. A.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

"Arch" skrev i melding
...

Sometimes I drill a mortise in a blank for expansion chucking to
my
fixed headstock lathe by using drill press and Forstner bit. Is
there a
way to drill a reasonably concentric second mortise on the other
side of
the blank for reverse turning?


I reverseturn all my bowls and platters, every day.

The forstner bit only makes the first recess.
I mount the piece, rough turn the bottom shape
as far as to flattening the bottom surface,
then I use my parting tool to cut the opposite recess
the same size as the first.

It turns out exactly parallell and exactly centered,
for all the natural reasons.

BjarteR

While all of you are trying to solve the multiple chuckig problem, what
everyone is actually suggesting is multiple chucking to drill two
holes. It doesn't matter that you do it on the lathe or a drill press,
but the end-for-end work is exactly that.

Just turn the ends as needed for a given chuck and reverse when needed.
All that work with dowels and jigs kind of defeats the advantages,
don't you think?

Joe Fleming - San Diego

While all of you are trying to solve the multiple chuckig problem, what
everyone is actually suggesting is multiple chucking to drill two
holes. It doesn't matter that you do it on the lathe or a drill press,
but the end-for-end work is exactly that.

Just turn the ends as needed for a given chuck and reverse when needed.
All that work with dowels and jigs kind of defeats the advantages,
don't you think?

Joe Fleming - San Diego

Arch wrote:
Mac, I was looking for a way to drill both with the drill press one
after the other. A.

I'm still wondering why?

Further to my previous post regarding the wood having to have two
parallel surfaces, another requirement is that the drill table be set
absolutely perpendicular to the bit.

Ultimately this problem boils down to drilling the second hole not only
in the right place, but also along the same axis as the first hole was
made. Small errors in setup are going to compound and make this approach
very difficult to pull off.

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

Thanks Derek and all respondents, Yep, the axis is the problem and of
course you and the others who saw no reason for considering an
inherently bad method are right. I hope thinking about problems, good
or bad, interests a few of the group, otherwise my musings are nothing
but trolls. Could be, I reckon. I am surprised that somebody didn't
invoke the bylaws, since my question didn't advance the craft. Maybe
just because I wanted to know if it could be done easily. Maybe
because:

it's there, the impossible dream, ours not to reason why, the cutting
edge, did it my way, followers can never lead, a better day is
coming, the new science,
the poor intelligence, the plagiary proof technique... Truth is,
because I wasn't sure it couldn't work.

To coin a phrase, "perversus ego sum" or in English, I am a COC.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 23:09:50 +0200, "Bjarte Runderheim"
wrote:


"Arch" skrev i melding
...

Sometimes I drill a mortise in a blank for expansion chucking to
my
fixed headstock lathe by using drill press and Forstner bit. Is
there a
way to drill a reasonably concentric second mortise on the other
side of
the blank for reverse turning?


I reverseturn all my bowls and platters, every day.

The forstner bit only makes the first recess.
I mount the piece, rough turn the bottom shape
as far as to flattening the bottom surface,
then I use my parting tool to cut the opposite recess
the same size as the first.

It turns out exactly parallell and exactly centered,
for all the natural reasons.

BjarteR

That's what most of us do, Bjarte.... but this is ARCH asking.. *lol*

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

Arch wrote:
I hope thinking about problems, good
or bad, interests a few of the group, otherwise my musings are nothing
but trolls.

It is always a good idea to rethink old habits and ask why we do them
and if they are still the best way.


invoke the bylaws, since my question didn't advance the craft.

Hardly. It may have given us all a new insight into the geometry of
chucking wood. Just because I shot the idea down in flames doesn't mean
that I had ever considered this approach before. Now that I have I am
sure it is not going to work for me, but maybe someone will find a way
to make it work

I'm afraid I don't know the Latin for
'there is no such thing as a stupid question'


--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

Thanks Derek & Mac, Don't encourage me! I'm thinking of asking your
help in turning a 'Penrose Triangle' next, since all my parallel tool
marks cross each other.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

the axis is the problem

not by my method:

Take a small-ish drill and bore the whole way through the blank. Then
use that bore as a guide to center the Forstner on both sides. Hmmm?

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm

Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness.

Owen Lowe wrote:
In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

the axis is the problem

not by my method:

Take a small-ish drill and bore the whole way through the blank. Then
use that bore as a guide to center the Forstner on both sides. Hmmm?

Nope.

Centering is only part of the problem. You still have to align the axis
of the forstner bits with the axis of the pilot hole.

Any way, I doubt that a bowl with a hole in it would meet Arch's
exacting standards.



--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

In article ,
Derek Andrews wrote:

Centering is only part of the problem. You still have to align the axis
of the forstner bits with the axis of the pilot hole.

OK, have a Forstner made with a very long center point that matches the
through-hole that was drilled initially - then the through-hole is
guiding the Forstner on the same axis...?

Any way, I doubt that a bowl with a hole in it would meet Arch's
exacting standards.

Arch said in his initial message, "I'm not concerned about the bowl's
bottom." He could then either plug it or leave it open.

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm

Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness.

Owen, sometimes I feel like the world is passing me by. I thought I was
pretty arty when I stopped plugging faceplate screw holes with match
stems, but when did felt and baize bowl bottoms go out of style?


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Hi Owen

ROFL when I read your first post, thought that a nice complimentary
color plug would make for a pleasing total. :-

Heck Arch could put in some more and have it look like a NIP bowl.
:-)))

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

(Arch) wrote:

Owen, sometimes I feel like the world is passing me by. I thought I was
pretty arty when I stopped plugging faceplate screw holes with match
stems, but when did felt and baize bowl bottoms go out of style?

Baize? About 1923.

Owen Lowe wrote:
Centering is only part of the problem. You still have to align the axis
of the forstner bits with the axis of the pilot hole.

OK, have a Forstner made with a very long center point that matches the
through-hole that was drilled initially - then the through-hole is
guiding the Forstner on the same axis...?


That might work, but the pilot would have to be large enough diameter to
prevent flexing.

It's starting to sound more like a colander than a bowl


--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

Arch wrote:
Owen, sometimes I feel like the world is passing me by. I thought I was
pretty arty when I stopped plugging faceplate screw holes with match
stems, but when did felt and baize bowl bottoms go out of style?

Owen's latest suggestion would require felt on the outside and inside of
the bowl. How does that satisfy your aesthetics?

--
Derek Andrews, woodturner

http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com
http://chipshop.blogspot.com - a blog for my customers
http://www.seafoamwoodturning.com/TheToolrest/ - a blog for woodturners

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:12:37 -0400, (Arch) wrote:
snip
I am surprised that somebody didn't invoke the bylaws, since my question didn't advance the craft.
snip

Some rules are made to be broken, Arch... *g*

IMHO, the term "advance the craft" just has an elitist ring to it....

I thought we were here to talk about our common interest in spinning wood and
aiming a sharp object at it, help others that have questions and have some
fun....

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:12:48 -0700, Owen Lowe wrote:

In article ,
(Arch) wrote:

the axis is the problem

not by my method:

Take a small-ish drill and bore the whole way through the blank. Then
use that bore as a guide to center the Forstner on both sides. Hmmm?

I think a small bore round like the 22 magnum might be faster and more accurate,
Owen..
Easier to get dowels in that size, too... at least on the entry side.. *g*

Personally, I think that Arch should work on a system that holds the wood in
place while the drill press and lathe revolve around it.. drilling accurate
holes on both sides at once....
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On 24 Apr 2006 22:44:20 -0700, "
wrote:


He Arch I still have a couple of those "felt over screwhole bowls", no
baize on them anymore though, the glue gave out :-))

Maybe they went out of style when felt got to expensive, or maybe it
didn't stick to PEG, biggest problem was maybe color coordination, that
green color just didn't make the grade.

After whittling plugs from twigs and have them fall out when dried, I
tried some of that rocker cover packing cork, didn't go over to well
either.

So much for the good old day's

Have fun and take care
Leo Van Der Loo

My brother used to drill the screw holes BIGGER and glue little turned pegs in
them for "legs"... lol

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:54:09 GMT, Derek Andrews
wrote:

Arch wrote:
Owen, sometimes I feel like the world is passing me by. I thought I was
pretty arty when I stopped plugging faceplate screw holes with match
stems, but when did felt and baize bowl bottoms go out of style?

Owen's latest suggestion would require felt on the outside and inside of
the bowl. How does that satisfy your aesthetics?

Maybe cork on the bottom and flocking inside? *lol*

Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm

In article ,
mac davis wrote:

Personally, I think that Arch should work on a system that holds the wood in
place while the drill press and lathe revolve around it.. drilling accurate
holes on both sides at once....

Well, there you go!!!

Have a two-head drill press (or use a lathe-type setup with one bit in
the headstock and the other in the tailstock) with the bits aligned
opposite each other - cutting edge to cutting edge. Clamp the wood
between the heads and then drill into the blank from both sides.

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm

Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness.

Stop it Owen! I just got a flyer advertising a sale on super long point
Forstner bits this morning. Keep this up and they'll be putting out a
special edition catalog.

Mac, Ain't it enough that my lathe walks around the shop. Now you want
me to teach it how to do cartwheels!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:56:08 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

Mac, I was looking for a way to drill both with the drill press one
after the other. A.

Arch-

Any reason it has to be drilled on the drill press?

If you get a drill chuck with a morse taper that fits your tail stock
and chuck a forsner bit into it, you can drill on the same axis on
your lathe. I don't have jaws that small myself, but I use the drill
chuck all the time for drilling lamps with a stupidly long bit, and it
works great. Also good for making a reference hole before hollowing
to make sure you're not going to make yourself a funnel.

On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:38:41 -0400, (Arch) wrote:

Stop it Owen! I just got a flyer advertising a sale on super long point
Forstner bits this morning. Keep this up and they'll be putting out a
special edition catalog.

Mac, Ain't it enough that my lathe walks around the shop. Now you want
me to teach it how to do cartwheels!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

no cartwheels, Arch... just barrel rolls.. *g*
Mac

https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm