These days there are many forums, dozens of good web sites and hundreds
of competent local mentors anxious to teach the basics and necessaries
of turning wood. The exceptions are always among us, but for the most
part the basics of the craft are the same for all of us.

I think beginners should be taught in 'plein aire' and I see little
advantage in spending time and money to learn the fundamentals from a
luminary in a distant place. Fun, yes. of course. Impressive on your
'brag sheet', perhaps. Necessary, not at all.

So who, what, when, where and how can we maximize an expensive
experience at the far away lathe of a distinguished woodturner? Here are
some of my thoughts, not intended as a troll, but as a gentle can opener
for your pro's & con's or just for your kindly indulgence.
***********************************************
After, and only after, the basics are well understood and can be
performed with little thought and if you are physically able to travel
easily, be away from your own digs and diets without worry and are able
sit & stand for extended periods:

1. Choose a well known turner-teacher whose work impresses you enough
that you want to try to follow and this might be achievable. Learn all
you can, but mostly for mechanics and inspiration, never to copy.
2. "Accentuate the positive, eeeliminate the negative" and _do "Mess
with Mr. In-between". Be open to new ideas that unsettle your old ones.
3. Before hand, check out other student's experiences with the teacher's
worthiness; his/her personality, enthusiasm, facilities, class size,
openness, ability to impart knowledge and willingness to do so....and
always inquire about the vittles!
4. Before you go, "Read, Mark, Learn" all you can about the person and
his/her work that you want to emulate; their tapes, demos, articles,
websites. etc. As with any work that has no best way, there are
multiple ways to approach woodturning and each expert's way is usually
personal and predictable.
5. Study any pre-course materials & suggested readings at home.
6, Don't hang with buddies and listen to them instead of the teacher.
Socialize at the end of the day and make new friends. Pay attention to
advice given to other students and don't be an 'expert student' or show
off as the 'best in class'.
7. Expect to make mistakes and make them now, not later when you can't
profit from being shown the error of your ways.
8. You've learned the fundamentals: don't
spend precious time relearning safety, sharpening, drying wood, arguing
whither woodturning? Instead, wither jokesters and incessent
interrupters. IOW, concentrate on what you paid to come for!
9. You might want to know how the famous teacher learned and earned
his/her reputation. It's quite possible that he/she was self taught.
Many were.
10, Have fun, enjoy the experience. It's your time. Leave your personal
troubles & woes at home for a little while. Lastly, pay no attention to
my musings. They are not valid. I've never taken a course!


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

Arch,

I have had the benefit of having the San Diego Woodturning Centre in my
own back yard. It has enabled me to take a number of classes from many
"world renowned" turners without paying the travel costs.

One of the pitfalls of taking classes with the luminaries of the field
is that it is easy for a novice to be overwhelmed by their tutor. At
the risk of name dropping, when I took my first class (John Jordan), I
turned like him, finished like him and sharpened like him. Then I took
a Raffan class and I was a Raffan affecionado. I went through a Stuart
Batty phase, a Jimmy Clewes phase, a Christian Burchard phase, etc. -
you get the idea.

At some point, you need to take the new tools and concepts you have
learned and make them your own. Instead of looking at the masters and
trying to deviate from them, you need to arrive at "what turns you on",
THEN apply the tools, tricks and tips. I've been turning now for about
seven years and consider myself very competent, but I still struggle
with finding "me" in the turning. You can't get that in a class nearly
as easily as a new grind on a bowl gouge.

Joe Fleming - San Diego

Although I am not a master turner (when I can turn a bowl that doesn't
need sanding, and I don't have to use calipers, maybe) or a master
teacher, or master demonstrater, I just love to do it. A standard
disclaimer I use is something like......... What I am showing you are
the skills that I have picked up over the years. I have learned a lot
by experimenting (I think that is called trial and error), and have
been influenced by a lot of other turners. I don't do anything to the
extent that I do it the same way every time. I reserve the right to
change my mind on how I do things at any time. What I do may or may not
work for you, but hopefully it will give you some ideas of things that
you may want to try, as well as different ways of doing things.
All of God's children are different, and some of us are more different
than others.
robo hippy

(Arch) wrote:

10, Have fun, enjoy the experience. It's your time. Leave your personal
troubles & woes at home for a little while. Lastly, pay no attention to
my musings. They are not valid. I've never taken a course!



11, It's your time and your money, don't settle for less than what you came
for.

I started college at 30 and was paying my own way with some help from the
GI Bill. A couple of times I had a wee chat with a professor re their
marital problems, car problems, child problems, etc. might be interesting
over a beer, but it was Not why I was paying for the class. In those days I
was much more polite than I might be now - time's winged chariot is also a
factor now.

Joe Fleming wrote:

One of the pitfalls of taking classes with the luminaries of the
field
is that it is easy for a novice to be overwhelmed by their tutor.

How true is that. We have had more than few grace our halls (OK,
warehouse space) and the difference in turning styles of the membership
changed rapidly after the visit. And if some of the guys took the one
- two day course that is usually offered with a visit from one of the
nationally known guys, it is hilarious. We get comments like "when I
was having lunch with George Hatfield", or "Stuart Batty and I were
talking about that very thing a few weeks ago and I showed him how I
liked to do that".

Some of them are so talented and make it look so easy to do whatever
aspect they are known for, we in the audience think - by gawd - that's
the way I wanna do it. When Brennon came here and showed how he
hollows, you have never seen so many people (me included) in amazement
at how fast he starts that process. He uses a 3/8 bowl gouge with a
long edge on each side of more than an inch, sharpened/shaped by hand
to more than 60 degrees up the side. The nose was almost a point.

He looked like a board planer with his showers of chips and curls, and
we were thinking THAT was the way to get it done. At the next meeting
we had ALL chickened out in grinding our gouges that way, and while we
modified our grinds, none of us went as far as he did (1 1/4" long
grind down the side by my actual measure). One of our members did
manage to bend his bowl gouge though, and the catch was so dramatic it
broke the ferrule. OK... alright....it was me. Hey... I had to try
it.

But the lesson learned for me was to be about 1/2 as agressive with the
grind angle and it works well. This means that I am half again as
agressive as I was before.

I am fortunate that I can learn many things from reading, and that
includes things that have been posted here. I have learned a ton by
practice, practice, practice, but the old addage does apply, "imperfect
practice makes imperfect results". I have found the best source of
hands on business is when our club takes a Saturday and we have open
house. Only the dedicated or secure show up with the tools that they
need help with, and with out group it turns out to be a well balanced
affair.

Some have new tools, some have better sharpening advice, some are
better at recognizinig what to do with a piece of wood, some guys
finish better, and on and on. While we all get some neat inspiration
from the pros, we also have a lot of hands on stuff passed back and
forth on these days that are set to address one particular problem or
area of concern. This is absolutely invaluable.

Last open house I got an hour's worth of instruction on how to easily
cut beads and coves with the skew (our skew expert uses one hand on 2"
square poplar to make a point about proper presentation), and then
drank a Coke. I spent an hour and half regrinding a guy's bowl gouges
for him, and then I ate some hot dogs.

After break, I spent some time holding a guy's elbow and hand to show
him the arm movement and poistion needed to make an Ellsworth grind
without a jig. Then I did a demo on using the parting tool to part,
plane, and to use it as a detail gouge. Then more hot dogs for lunch.

While the pros are great for inspiration, and are certainly wonderful
to teach the one or two things they are really known for, I would
rather learn in a more relaxed environment from our club guys. We are
lucky as some are quite good and not the least bit hesitant about
sharing their techniques. We take it all seriously, and when we are in
the teaching/learning area it is all very serious and you would think
it was an organized class of one on one turners. However, around the
grill it is different as it is a wonderful time to compare notes on
turning, discuss ideas, and catch up on who has wood to trade.

I have never taken a class on woodturning, either. They are always
held during the week, and I am uncomfortable being away from my biz all
day long with the cell phone off. But I think the most important items
highlighted by Arch in his post above would have to be to me #6 and
#10.

Robert

Thanks Joe, I think you have reached the stature that when I mention you
are an internet friend, I'm "name dropping".

Thanks robo, Disclaim all you want, but we could all learn a lot from
your demo, just as we have from your posts here.

Thanks for #11 Lobby, After WW2, FSCW (women) became FSU (co-ed). Those
"mature GIs" really shook up the existing faculty...the girls were very
happy.

Thanks Robert, Maybe you could make it look easy too...if you were
provided with selected wood blanks and the best of equipment to demo a
piece that you had turned hundreds of times before. Once I suggested
that our club host a willing expert with a sense of humor and have
him/her demo as in some of the member's real world...ie. in a phone
booth, turning a unrehearsed form from punky wood on a AMT lathe using
HF's bottom line tools. I was shouted down and not for the first time
either.


Turn to Safety, Arch
Fortiter



http://community.webtv.net/almcc/MacsMusings

I operate on the theory that I am as smart as the next guy. My fear is that
if I drop my methods, and adopt a spectacularly successful technique I have
just seen, I will be diverted from a breakthrough of my own. I wouldn't
want to deny my fellow woodturners the benefit I am about to discover.
Yeah, right! ;-)

Arch wrote:

Once I suggested
that our club host a willing expert with a sense of humor and have
him/her demo as in some of the member's real world...ie. in a phone
booth, turning a unrehearsed form from punky wood on a AMT lathe using
HF's bottom line tools.

Man that would separate the turners from the demo masters, wouldn't it?
We had a turner here that had his tools sent to another place courtesy
of the airlines. He didn't have his tools, his jigs, his wood, and in
general his "stuff" when he demoed. He was supplied with Sorby and
Crown tools, and told to PLEASE grind them anyway he wanted with the
underlying motive being that someone would have a tool ground by a
master to take home and study.

He had a terrible time, and he was so out of sorts after the first 30
minutes or so it was actually embarassing. We heard every excuse in
the book. The flip side was when Stuart Batty came, and I swear that
guy could turn a Tiffany lampshade with a scredriver.

I think your request holds water, Arch. I am reminded of a woodworking
show I went to a few years ago and they were demoing some new sawblade.
It was laser cut and computer balanced. It was so well ligned,
sharpened and designed that (like a Forest) it didn't leave any saw
marks. This guy cross cut, ripped, and angle cut with a miter gauge on
a delta table saw that had the wings taken off. He put a pieced 4/4 of
cherry in the saw, ripped it about 12 inches and left it there; after a
couple of minutes, he took it out and there was nary a sign of burning
or teeth.

Here's the parallel (for those with turning idols, this doesn't apply
to anyone you know or have heard of!). I stuck around after the 20
minute demo and asked him some more questions about the blade. Then I
asked him how long he had been a woodworker. Well, he replied, never.
He had goofed around some with his Dad as a kid, but was looking for a
job when this came up. They trained him to do the demos, and that was
it. He was paid a commision for every blade sold at the show and a
smaller one for everyone that called the office and gave them the local
trade show number when ordering.

All he could do was rip, crosscut and angle cut boards. Never built a
project in his life.
But he did have lots of kinds of wood to demo the blade on if you had a
question, and everyone kinda took the flannel shirt, hiking boots and
worn ball cap as the uniform of a woodworker.

Too funny.

Robert

Leo Lichtman wrote:

My fear is that if I drop my methods, and adopt a spectacularly
successful technique I have just seen, I will be diverted from a
breakthrough of my own.

I am right there with you. Once I perfect getting beat to death small
bowl gouge with a super agressive grind, I intend to go on the road.

It will look like the three stooges with one missing. I am imagining
the gouge whacking me all over held by an invisible hand. Don't know
how much valuable knowledge would be imparted, but the sound of that
catch is still ringing in my ears. THAT has to be worth something to
see someone do that!

Robert

wrote:

It will look like the three stooges with one missing. I am imagining
the gouge whacking me all over held by an invisible hand. Don't know
how much valuable knowledge would be imparted, but the sound of that
catch is still ringing in my ears. THAT has to be worth something to
see someone do that!



I'd pay to see it! )

It will look like the three stooges with one missing. I am imagining
the gouge whacking me all over held by an invisible hand. Don't know
how much valuable knowledge would be imparted, but the sound of that
catch is still ringing in my ears. THAT has to be worth something to
see someone do that!

Sounds like money well spent to me! Tickets please!!


--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

A while back I was at a turning demo put on by a world famous turner who
shall remain nameless. He was making some great cuts in a piece of green,
sound, clear black cherry and the shavings were flying. So were the sales
pitches for his name sake, specially ground and formed gouges. One of the
fellows looked at Maurice Gamblin, an excellent turner, and said, "Maurice,
is there even one of those cuts you can not make with a standard 1/4"
gouge?" Maurice replied that for a couple he would want a parting tool and
mabe a 3/8" for one or two. On the other hand Maurice has no tools named
after him. Sometimes the price of fame is $69.95 for a fancy gouge :-)

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

"Darrell Feltmate" wrote in message
news:8dHKf.6983$_62.4306@edtnps90...
It will look like the three stooges with one missing. I am imagining
the gouge whacking me all over held by an invisible hand. Don't know
how much valuable knowledge would be imparted, but the sound of that
catch is still ringing in my ears. THAT has to be worth something to
see someone do that!

Sounds like money well spent to me! Tickets please!!
================

Seems like I could make a living on the road demoing as a bad example!!

Ken Moon
Webberville, TX.

"Ken Moon" wrote: Seems like I could make a living on the road demoing as
a bad example!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What a great idea. It seems like, after a while, everything that can be
demoed (is that a word?) has been done to death. Ken, if you ever do this,
please put me on your list for a video (at a reasonable price, of course.)

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
...

"Ken Moon" wrote: Seems like I could make a living on the road demoing
as a bad example!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What a great idea. It seems like, after a while, everything that can be
demoed (is that a word?) has been done to death. Ken, if you ever do
this, please put me on your list for a video (at a reasonable price, of
course.)
==================

Since this group has probably experienced just about everything that
shouldn't be done on a lathe, they'd make a great advisory group.:-)

Ken