Going through the Airgas - Rutland Tool catalogue looking for
end mills for cutting mortises, I come upon page after page
after page of "Insert Tooling" "Inserts". There are carbide
cutters in more shapes than you can shake a stick at and tool
holders for all kinds of uses. To top it off, much of this stuff
is relatively inexpensive - I mean relative to the price of
some of the "signature" gouges in the wood turning catalogues.

Now I understand that many turning tools are very versatile
-because they can be rolled and angled while making a cut
to create a range of shapes. But for roughing to round or
boring to hollow something out carbide would stay sharp
a LOT longer than HSS and with an isocoles triangle "insert",
chaning to a new sharp edge takes only a minute or so and
you're back at the wood creating chips and curlies.

And while on the topic of transfering technology -
why aren't there tool holders for insert tooling
available for wood turning lathes? A round rod
that'll fit the "banjo" hole, a tool holder that
can be bolted to it and you're almost in business.
You still need something to move the cutter to
the wood - but XY vises are out there in the
$50-$60 US range.

Why is the wood turning technology still back in the
mid point of the Industrial Revolution? Or is that
the charm of it?

Just something to think about.

charlie b

ps - you might give Airgas a call and see if
they'll send you a catalogue or have a
look at their website
www.airgas.com

"charlie b" wrote in message
...
Going through the Airgas - Rutland Tool catalogue looking for
end mills for cutting mortises, I come upon page after page
after page of "Insert Tooling" "Inserts". There are carbide
cutters in more shapes than you can shake a stick at and tool
holders for all kinds of uses. To top it off, much of this stuff
is relatively inexpensive - I mean relative to the price of
some of the "signature" gouges in the wood turning catalogues.

Now I understand that many turning tools are very versatile
-because they can be rolled and angled while making a cut
to create a range of shapes. But for roughing to round or
boring to hollow something out carbide would stay sharp
a LOT longer than HSS and with an isocoles triangle "insert",
chaning to a new sharp edge takes only a minute or so and
you're back at the wood creating chips and curlies.

They work just dandy - as scrapers. I used old ones from the machinist up
the way on my Sorby. The tool steel pieces are easily sharpened and pretty
tough, the carbide has to be a fairly thick section to work without
breaking. Pretty brittle. I have had edges chip from knots in maple.

Since it's so much easier on the turner and the turning to cut, they're
relegated to those angles and places where cutting's impossible.

We call them inserted tip tools or Oland tools after Knud Oland who was an
advocate for their use back in the 1970's. The use of x-y vises is
counterproductive for wood turning except in the hands of someone like
Michelle Holtzappfel who is a law unto herself when it comes to using a
metal lathe for wood. Carbide is brittle for wood use and does not sharpen
as well as high speed steel but may have a place for roughing work. Take a
look at my web site for info on the use of Oland tools.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

indexable tooling would be one of my last choices for wood - carbide
is brittle and abslutely will not take a sharp edge - medium sharp
yes, but not sharp - try an experiment - get a carbide tipped tool (I
have some carbide tipped gouges and whatnot), a HSS tool of similar
shape, and a carbon steel tool - sharepen each as well as you can and
cut some shavings - you will find

the carbide will kinda cut and you can get a poor and torn surface
finish

the HSS will cut pretty well and you can get a nice finsh

the carbon steel will cut like a razor and give you an almost polished
finish

BUT

The carbon steel will dull quickly

The HSS will last for much much longer

The carbide, if you don't break it, will last several days of
continuous turning

But the longevity of carbide does not make up for its inabilty to take
a sharp enough edge

Now, if you are cutting steel, and it is not an interrupted cut,
carbide is great



On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:17:25 -0500, "George" George@least wrote:


"charlie b" wrote in message
...
Going through the Airgas - Rutland Tool catalogue looking for
end mills for cutting mortises, I come upon page after page
after page of "Insert Tooling" "Inserts". There are carbide
cutters in more shapes than you can shake a stick at and tool
holders for all kinds of uses. To top it off, much of this stuff
is relatively inexpensive - I mean relative to the price of
some of the "signature" gouges in the wood turning catalogues.

Now I understand that many turning tools are very versatile
-because they can be rolled and angled while making a cut
to create a range of shapes. But for roughing to round or
boring to hollow something out carbide would stay sharp
a LOT longer than HSS and with an isocoles triangle "insert",
chaning to a new sharp edge takes only a minute or so and
you're back at the wood creating chips and curlies.

They work just dandy - as scrapers. I used old ones from the machinist up
the way on my Sorby. The tool steel pieces are easily sharpened and pretty
tough, the carbide has to be a fairly thick section to work without
breaking. Pretty brittle. I have had edges chip from knots in maple.

Since it's so much easier on the turner and the turning to cut, they're
relegated to those angles and places where cutting's impossible.

Bill

www.wbnoble.com

to contact me, do not reply to this message,
instead correct this address and use it

will iam_ b_ No ble at msn daught com

"William B Noble (don't reply to this address)"
wrote:

indexable tooling would be one of my last choices for wood - carbide
is brittle and abslutely will not take a sharp edge - medium sharp
yes, but not sharp - try an experiment - get a carbide tipped tool (I
have some carbide tipped gouges and whatnot), a HSS tool of similar
shape, and a carbon steel tool - sharepen each as well as you can and
cut some shavings - you will find

the carbide will kinda cut and you can get a poor and torn surface
finish

the HSS will cut pretty well and you can get a nice finsh

the carbon steel will cut like a razor and give you an almost polished
finish

BUT

The carbon steel will dull quickly

BUT. The carbon steel can be sharpened quickly.

The HSS will last for much much longer

I use carbide toothed table saw blades, sliding compound miter saw
blades and a sh*t load of router bits - all on wood. Clearly
cardbide cutting edges WILL can make glass smooth cuts, both
ripping, cross cutting and routing - including acrossed
end grain. Of course, in these applications, the RPMS are
in the 5K range for saw blades and 20K-30K for router bits.
Knots don't seem to be an issue with these cutting tools.
Perhaps the rpm range of most turnings is the problem.

As for the surface left by a carbide cutter, what I was talking
about is roughing, both outside and inside a piece. Use the
finest edge tool when it makes a difference, and the carbide
tool to do the grunt work required to get cose.

But if you enjoy sharpening . . .

charlie b

"charlie b" wrote in message
...
I use carbide toothed table saw blades, sliding compound miter saw
blades and a sh*t load of router bits - all on wood. Clearly
cardbide cutting edges WILL can make glass smooth cuts, both
ripping, cross cutting and routing - including acrossed
end grain. Of course, in these applications, the RPMS are
in the 5K range for saw blades and 20K-30K for router bits.
Knots don't seem to be an issue with these cutting tools.
Perhaps the rpm range of most turnings is the problem.

The proper analogy would be sandpaper, not a gouge for those actions. Many
and small bites. The gap at the center of a split knot can bite off
carbide, of course.


As for the surface left by a carbide cutter, what I was talking
about is roughing, both outside and inside a piece. Use the
finest edge tool when it makes a difference, and the carbide
tool to do the grunt work required to get cose.


Dont use the finest tool to rough? THAT is an excellent philosophy. Why use
that powdered metal gouge where it might lose the lasting edge from an
encounter with crud under the bark? Use a pattern that removes stock
quickly - and here's where scraping falls by the wayside - and with little
effort by the turner against the wood. Won't matter if you're cutting acid
wood and the edge pits and corrodes, either, because it it a short-lived
one.

But if you enjoy sharpening . . .


Compared to being beaten to death trying to force a dull tool - I love it.

On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:41:40 GMT, "Darrell Feltmate"
wrote:

We call them inserted tip tools or Oland tools

I thought the Oland tools were square bar HSS ? ('60s lathe tooling).
We're talking here about '80s lathe tooling - replaceable carbide
squares or triangles, pre-sharpened at the factory.

IMHE, carbide tooling is too brittle for most woodturning. A big catch
and you'll chip it. Spending money on better carbide grades can improve
this though.

Actually Knud Oland used mostly square tip tool bits but also a parting tool
set up and round tips. I agree that HSS is better for wood.

--
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS Canada
www.aroundthewoods.com

In article Ylnyf.908$MG1.659@trnddc05,
Lobby Dosser wrote:

the carbon steel will cut like a razor and give you an almost polished
finish

BUT

The carbon steel will dull quickly

BUT. The carbon steel can be sharpened quickly.

Damn, I've got a yin in my yang.

--
Owen Lowe

Northwest Woodturners
Pacific Northwest Woodturning Guild
___
Tips fer Turnin': Place a sign, easily seen as you switch on your lathe, warning you to remove any and all rings from your fingers. Called degloving, extended hardware can grab your ring and rip it off your finger. A pic for the strong of stomach: www.itim.nsw.gov.au/go/objectid/2A3AC703-1321-1C29-70B067DC88E16BFC/index.cfm

Besides, rings can easily mar the surface of a turning as you check for finished smoothness.

On 16-01-2006 09:03, in article
, "Owen Lowe"
wrote:

In article Ylnyf.908$MG1.659@trnddc05,
Lobby Dosser wrote:

the carbon steel will cut like a razor and give you an almost polished
finish

BUT

The carbon steel will dull quickly

BUT. The carbon steel can be sharpened quickly.

Damn, I've got a yin in my yang.

Ahuuuum-it awy ;-)

--
Gerard