Hi,

Our house had electric heaters with Economy 7 installed back in, oh - the
70s. It was bloody expensive to have installed and this was back in the days
when the nationalised electricity companies treated you like dirt and told
you what you were having. Anyhow, basically, we have a system which controls
our heating by switching the heaters on at 1AM and switches them off at 7AM.

In the night, during the winter, the house is warm.

In the day the house gets cold very quickly and there is no way to turn the
heaters on. The heating is controlled by a black box with a clear plastic
cover over it in which there is a metal clock type mechanism with 4 pins in
it. I assume that, if I had the cover open, I could move the pins around and
get it to change so that the heaters came on for, say, a couple of hours
during the day as well as the usual night-time. Can I do this?

However, can I have a different control box installed so that I can set the
heating to come on at night plus have some control over the heaters during
the day?

Thanks,


John.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Smith wrote:

Hi,

Our house had electric heaters with Economy 7 installed back in, oh -
the 70s. It was bloody expensive to have installed and this was back
in the days when the nationalised electricity companies treated you
like dirt and told you what you were having. Anyhow, basically, we
have a system which controls our heating by switching the heaters on
at 1AM and switches them off at 7AM.

In the night, during the winter, the house is warm.

In the day the house gets cold very quickly and there is no way to
turn the heaters on. The heating is controlled by a black box with a
clear plastic cover over it in which there is a metal clock type
mechanism with 4 pins in it. I assume that, if I had the cover open,
I could move the pins around and get it to change so that the heaters
came on for, say, a couple of hours during the day as well as the
usual night-time. Can I do this?

However, can I have a different control box installed so that I can
set the heating to come on at night plus have some control over the
heaters during the day?

Thanks,


John.

You can't *legally* change the times at which you receive off-peak
electricity.

If you really want to keep storage heaters (which - in my opinion - are an
invention of the Devil!) you can get modern ones with much better insulation
and output heat control - along with booster fans connected to the normal
supply to get heat out during the day.

If I had them, I'd throw the lot out and put in a decent gas-fired system
with radiators. Not only is this much cheaper to run, but it is also
infinitely more controllable - and provides heat when *you* want it - not
when your supplier says you can have it!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

You can't *legally* change the times at which you receive off-peak
electricity.

Not strictly true - there`s a tariff called Option 14 available from some
suppliers that gives you 14 hours of "off peak" electricity - from 9pm to
8am and from 1pm to 4pm

Whether this is now classed as a "protected tariff" and only available to
customers who were on it before it was withdrawn to new customers I can`t
say, but I got it in approx December 1999 and went back onto standard
quarterly tariff about 2 months ago when the central heating was
installed.

The interim period from 1999 to 2004 had us using oil filled electric
radiators in a couple of locations around the house, run directly from
the ring main, and they were controlled using cheap digital plugin
timers.

--
Please add "[newsgroup]" in the subject of any personal replies via email
--- My new email address has "ngspamtrap" & @btinternet.com in it ;-) ---

"Colin Wilson" wrote in message
t...
You can't *legally* change the times at which you receive off-peak
electricity.

Not strictly true - there`s a tariff called Option 14 available from some
suppliers that gives you 14 hours of "off peak" electricity - from 9pm to
8am and from 1pm to 4pm

Whether this is now classed as a "protected tariff" and only available to
customers who were on it before it was withdrawn to new customers I can`t
say, but I got it in approx December 1999 and went back onto standard
quarterly tariff about 2 months ago when the central heating was
installed.

The interim period from 1999 to 2004 had us using oil filled electric
radiators in a couple of locations around the house, run directly from
the ring main, and they were controlled using cheap digital plugin
timers.

SEC have brought in a tarif called flexi heat
week
9p KWH 07:30 to 19:30
4.4p kwh 19:30 to 0:30
2.2 KWh 0:30 to 07:30

weekends
2.2.kWh 0:30 to 07:30
4.4 kwh at other times from 19:30 friday

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

If you really want to keep storage heaters (which - in my opinion - are an
invention of the Devil!) you can get modern ones with much better
insulation
and output heat control - along with booster fans connected to the normal
supply to get heat out during the day.

If I had them, I'd throw the lot out and put in a decent gas-fired system
with radiators. Not only is this much cheaper to run, but it is also
infinitely more controllable - and provides heat when *you* want it - not
when your supplier says you can have it!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.



Thanks - I would put in gas but the plan is to move in the next 2 years so
it is not cost effective.

"James Salisbury" wrote in message
...

SEC have brought in a tarif called flexi heat
week
9p KWH 07:30 to 19:30
4.4p kwh 19:30 to 0:30
2.2 KWh 0:30 to 07:30

weekends
2.2.kWh 0:30 to 07:30
4.4 kwh at other times from 19:30 friday



Thanks for this - I'll have to check with my electric bill to find out what
tarriff I am on.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Smith wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

If you really want to keep storage heaters (which - in my opinion -
are an invention of the Devil!) you can get modern ones with much
better insulation and output heat control - along with booster fans
connected to the normal supply to get heat out during the day.

If I had them, I'd throw the lot out and put in a decent gas-fired
system with radiators. Not only is this much cheaper to run, but it
is also infinitely more controllable - and provides heat when *you*
want it - not when your supplier says you can have it!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.



Thanks - I would put in gas but the plan is to move in the next 2
years so it is not cost effective.

I wouldn't be too sure about that! Assuming that you own the property rather
than rent it, you are likely to increase the value by more than the cost if
you put in a decent heating system. Storage heaters are a strong
disincentive to many potential buyers.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Colin Wilson wrote:

You can't *legally* change the times at which you receive off-peak
electricity.

Not strictly true - there`s a tariff called Option 14 available from
some suppliers that gives you 14 hours of "off peak" electricity -
from 9pm to 8am and from 1pm to 4pm

OK - what I was trying to say is that your supplier defines the timing of
the off-peak period and you're not allowed to tamper with the clock - which
was what the OP was suggesting doing.

If you can change to a more suitable tarrif, then fine. However, my
impression is that, as storage heater technology has improved, the tarrifs
available to new customers have become more rather than less restrictive -
with no daytime boosts etc.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 09:57:56 +0100, Set Square wrote:

Thanks - I would put in gas but the plan is to move in the next 2
years so it is not cost effective.

I wouldn't be too sure about that! Assuming that you own the
property rather than rent it, ...

Quite no way would I seriously consider a property heated by storage
radiators. If it was a "must have" property the first job would be
installing a proper heating system, and a reduction in my offer by
about 10 grand to cover that cost...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

Thanks - I would put in gas but the plan is to move in the next 2
years so it is not cost effective.

I wouldn't be too sure about that! Assuming that you own the property
rather
than rent it, you are likely to increase the value by more than the cost
if
you put in a decent heating system. Storage heaters are a strong
disincentive to many potential buyers.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.



I did think that it would improve costs until I discovered, from various
reports in the last few years, all of which said that installing central
heating did not add to the value of a house. Odd I know but that is what the
reports I have read claim. You know, these reports that look at what people
spend on houses and then whether they have added the value they spent, etc.

John.

"John Smith" wrote
| Our house had electric heaters with Economy 7 installed back in, oh -
| the 70s. ... Anyhow, basically, we have a system which controls
| our heating by switching the heaters on at 1AM and switches them
| off at 7AM.
| In the night, during the winter, the house is warm.
| In the day the house gets cold very quickly and there is no way to
| turn the heaters on.

Sounds like your flaps are stuck open. The problem is the heaters are
letting all the heat out at night instead of holding it for when it's wanted
later.

The heaters should be charging up with heat between 1-7am but should not
release that heat until you open a flap inside. There should be an 'output'
control on the heater. That should off OFF overnight and during the morning,
then mid-afternoon or early evening turn the output up and the heater will
release its heat so your house is warm in the evening. If you turn the
output up too early in the day you'll run out of heat before tea-time. Turn
the output to OFF before retiring to bed. You will probably hear the flap
moving as you adjust it.

It is quite likely that the system is undersized and the house is
inadequately insulated.

| The heating is controlled by a black box with a clear plastic
| cover over it in which there is a metal clock type mechanism with
| 4 pins in it. I assume that, if I had the cover open, I could move
| the pins around and get it to change so that the heaters came on
| for, say, a couple of hours during the day as well as the usual
| night-time. Can I do this?

The timeswitch could be doing one or both of two tasks:

1. Changing your meter from High Rate to Low Rate. In this case the
timeswitch should be sealed and breaking the seals would be a criminal
offence.

2. Turning your heaters on and off at the right time. In this case your
meter may be changed over by a separate teleswitch (radio controlled).

If the timeswitch is *only* doing 2. then you could alter it, but your
heaters would then be taking in electric mid-afternoon at that
ever-so-expensive High Rate. And storage heaters aren't designed for
instantaneous heat, so you might as well plug in a fan-heater.

Owain

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 09:57:56 +0100, Set Square wrote:

Thanks - I would put in gas but the plan is to move in the next 2
years so it is not cost effective.

I wouldn't be too sure about that! Assuming that you own the
property rather than rent it, ...

Quite no way would I seriously consider a property heated by storage
radiators. If it was a "must have" property the first job would be
installing a proper heating system, and a reduction in my offer by
about 10 grand to cover that cost...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



10 grand - you obviously have very expensive central heating - most I was
quoted was 6K.

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:15:40 GMT, John Smith wrote:

10 grand - you obviously have very expensive central heating - most
I was quoted was 6K.

OTT figure pulled from a hat or look at this way 6k for the heating
system 4k for the inconvience.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In article , John Smith
wrote:

I did think that it would improve costs until I discovered, from
various reports in the last few years, all of which said that
installing central heating did not add to the value of a house. Odd I
know but that is what the reports I have read claim. You know, these
reports that look at what people spend on houses and then whether they
have added the value they spent, etc.

I'd expect you to at least break even. Assuming that it might cost 5,000
quid to install a heating system and 2 otherwise identical houses, one
without central heating and the other with it but 5,000 more. To install
heating the buyer will probably need to borrow the 5,000 after moving in
and have all the disruption of having the work done. The extra 5,000 for
the other house will be included in the mortgage at lower cost than a
separate loan and he has none of the disruption. Unless the buyer plans
to save a bit of money and do it himself he'd probably consider the
house with heating a better deal.

Even if you don't recover your costs, installing central heating could
make a considerable difference to the time it takes to find a willing
buyer. You might want to attach some financial value to this.

--
Mike Clarke

"Set Square" wrote in message ...
OK - what I was trying to say is that your supplier defines the timing of
the off-peak period...

In fact they do it cleverly these days. Most recent split-rate
installations are radio controlled and the heaters are turned on and
off by the electricity board when they want. They seem to use this for
load balancing. Our storage heaters go on and off at different times
day to day - sometimes they go on for an hour or so during the day at
odd times (3pm, 11am even 7pm at times!). As far as I can tell this
is because adjusting the amount of power generated is difficult and
takes a lot of time - so when demand drops suddenly (or unexpentedly)
they just turn on lots of heaters to soak up the spare. Neat eh?

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:35:59 +0100, "Set Square"
wrote:

If I had them, I'd throw the lot out and put in a decent gas-fired system
with radiators. Not only is this much cheaper to run, but it is also
infinitely more controllable - and provides heat when *you* want it - not
when your supplier says you can have it!

An interesting thread, as I am contemplating whether to go for
properties with Economy 7 heating. The feeling seems to be, no.

My preferred fuel is gas, but what if there is no gas? Would you
consider Calor gas? Isn't that even more expensive?

We all grew up in unheated houses. The only source of heat was the
open fires my dad laid every morning. Later, in a much larger house,
we had a massive Aga in one of the kitchens and that was kept going
throughout the year. Quite warm in summer, of course, but then we kids
spent hardly any time in doors anyway! The heat from the Aga permeated
throughout the house.

So, gas, Calor gas, propane (I assume it's the same thing), oil, or
solid fuel? What about just using electric heaters (not eco 7 ones)
and lots of insulation?

MM

On 5 Jul 2004 02:45:20 -0700, (Matt Beard) wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message ...
OK - what I was trying to say is that your supplier defines the timing of
the off-peak period...

In fact they do it cleverly these days. Most recent split-rate
installations are radio controlled and the heaters are turned on and
off by the electricity board when they want. They seem to use this for
load balancing. Our storage heaters go on and off at different times
day to day - sometimes they go on for an hour or so during the day at
odd times (3pm, 11am even 7pm at times!). As far as I can tell this
is because adjusting the amount of power generated is difficult and
takes a lot of time - so when demand drops suddenly (or unexpentedly)
they just turn on lots of heaters to soak up the spare. Neat eh?

Not really. What do I want with a heater coming on outwith my control
when it's already hot enough to fry an egg on the floor in summer?

MM

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 09:57:56 +0100, "Set Square"
wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
John Smith wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...

If you really want to keep storage heaters (which - in my opinion -
are an invention of the Devil!) you can get modern ones with much
better insulation and output heat control - along with booster fans
connected to the normal supply to get heat out during the day.

If I had them, I'd throw the lot out and put in a decent gas-fired
system with radiators. Not only is this much cheaper to run, but it
is also infinitely more controllable - and provides heat when *you*
want it - not when your supplier says you can have it!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.



Thanks - I would put in gas but the plan is to move in the next 2
years so it is not cost effective.

I wouldn't be too sure about that! Assuming that you own the property rather
than rent it, you are likely to increase the value by more than the cost if
you put in a decent heating system. Storage heaters are a strong
disincentive to many potential buyers.

Completely correct. I am avoiding all properties with oil, only giving
Economy 7 ones a cursory look - and putting ones with gas-fired CH on
my short list! I believe oil is an absolute no-no. Quite apart from
the cost and the nuisance of having to get a lorry out, it's smelly
and you have this eyesore of a tank in the back garden.

MM

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt Beard wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
OK - what I was trying to say is that your supplier defines the
timing of the off-peak period...

In fact they do it cleverly these days. Most recent split-rate
installations are radio controlled and the heaters are turned on and
off by the electricity board when they want. They seem to use this for
load balancing. Our storage heaters go on and off at different times
day to day - sometimes they go on for an hour or so during the day at
odd times (3pm, 11am even 7pm at times!). As far as I can tell this
is because adjusting the amount of power generated is difficult and
takes a lot of time - so when demand drops suddenly (or unexpentedly)
they just turn on lots of heaters to soak up the spare. Neat eh?


It may be neat for the Electricity Board - but *not* for you!
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Matt Beard wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message
...
OK - what I was trying to say is that your supplier defines the
timing of the off-peak period...


Five years ago I bought a house with economy 7. I have always intended
changing to solid fuel ( dont want oil, too noisy , smelly and an oil tank
in the garden and LPG is too expensive and still an unsightly tank in the
garden!). Most people in the village have solid fuel. A few have economy 7
Very few seem to have anything else.

As it happens I have never bothered to change. I found that the electric
heating was not as bad as painted. I have never been cold. My fuel bill is
as reasonable as it would be on either of the other options. It has the
advantage of being clean, even if you do have to watch the weather forcasts
to decide when to put it on ( especially cold spells in summer).

I cant say as I have ever been cold ( and I am a person who feels the
cold).

In fact they do it cleverly these days. Most recent split-rate
installations are radio controlled and the heaters are turned on and
off by the electricity board when they want. They seem to use this for
load balancing. Our storage heaters go on and off at different times
day to day - sometimes they go on for an hour or so during the day at
odd times (3pm, 11am even 7pm at times!).

Mine is the old fashioned kind. Probably put in late 1970's and seems to
have a mechanical clock timer ( guess it must be triggered by electric
though)
However, I too have difficulty working out when its supposed to come on!

After a three day power cut in the storms a couple of years ago the
supposedly midnight to seven am turned into ten thirty pm to five thirty
am. recently it seems to have moved forward again but I dont know why.

I have not bothered to get them to come and do anything about it.

"John Smith" wrote in message
...

"mich" wrote in message
...

Mine is the old fashioned kind. Probably put in late 1970's and seems
to
have a mechanical clock timer ( guess it must be triggered by electric
though)
However, I too have difficulty working out when its supposed to come on!

After a three day power cut in the storms a couple of years ago the
supposedly midnight to seven am turned into ten thirty pm to five
thirty
am. recently it seems to have moved forward again but I dont know why.

I have not bothered to get them to come and do anything about it.




Mich, you're not me are you!? Virtually identical story except that I have
had mine for much longer.

Last time I looked I was me and I dont think I am you! g

Obviously not as uncommon a situation as either of us have thought.

"mich" wrote in message
...


Five years ago I bought a house with economy 7. I have always intended
changing to solid fuel ( dont want oil, too noisy , smelly and an oil tank
in the garden and LPG is too expensive and still an unsightly tank in the
garden!). Most people in the village have solid fuel. A few have economy 7
Very few seem to have anything else.

As it happens I have never bothered to change. I found that the electric
heating was not as bad as painted. I have never been cold. My fuel bill
is
as reasonable as it would be on either of the other options. It has the
advantage of being clean, even if you do have to watch the weather
forcasts
to decide when to put it on ( especially cold spells in summer).

I cant say as I have ever been cold ( and I am a person who feels the
cold).

In fact they do it cleverly these days. Most recent split-rate
installations are radio controlled and the heaters are turned on and
off by the electricity board when they want. They seem to use this for
load balancing. Our storage heaters go on and off at different times
day to day - sometimes they go on for an hour or so during the day at
odd times (3pm, 11am even 7pm at times!).

Mine is the old fashioned kind. Probably put in late 1970's and seems to
have a mechanical clock timer ( guess it must be triggered by electric
though)
However, I too have difficulty working out when its supposed to come on!

After a three day power cut in the storms a couple of years ago the
supposedly midnight to seven am turned into ten thirty pm to five
thirty
am. recently it seems to have moved forward again but I dont know why.

I have not bothered to get them to come and do anything about it.




Mich, you're not me are you!? Virtually identical story except that I have
had mine for much longer.

Mike Mitchell wrote:

As far as I can tell this
is because adjusting the amount of power generated is difficult and
takes a lot of time - so when demand drops suddenly (or unexpentedly)
they just turn on lots of heaters to soak up the spare. Neat eh?

Not really. What do I want with a heater coming on outwith my control
when it's already hot enough to fry an egg on the floor in summer?

Errr, you'd have them switched off at the wall in summer.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Owain wrote:

Sounds like your flaps are stuck open. The problem is the heaters are
letting all the heat out at night instead of holding it for when it's
wanted later.

One thing I've found again and again with E7 heaters is that only a very
few sad people (like me) can be bothered to work out how they work and
how best to work with them. The upshot is that "they" will crank both
controls to maximum and wonder why it's cold by 10am.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Scott M wrote:

Sounds like your flaps are stuck open. The problem is the heaters are
letting all the heat out at night instead of holding it for when it's
wanted later.

One thing I've found again and again with E7 heaters is that only a very
few sad people (like me) can be bothered to work out how they work and
how best to work with them. The upshot is that "they" will crank both
controls to maximum and wonder why it's cold by 10am.

Just to add: this was a general observation and not a pop at the OP!

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 15:35:45 GMT, Scott M
strung together this:

The upshot is that "they" will crank both
controls to maximum and wonder why it's cold by 10am.

Yep, that's usually all the 'fault' is when I get called out to
storage heaters that aren't working, when of course they are.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

Mike Mitchell wrote in message . ..
On 5 Jul 2004 02:45:20 -0700, (Matt Beard) wrote:

"Set Square" wrote in message ...
OK - what I was trying to say is that your supplier defines the timing of
the off-peak period...

In fact they do it cleverly these days. Most recent split-rate
installations are radio controlled and the heaters are turned on and
off by the electricity board when they want. They seem to use this for
load balancing. Our storage heaters go on and off at different times
day to day - sometimes they go on for an hour or so during the day at
odd times (3pm, 11am even 7pm at times!). As far as I can tell this
is because adjusting the amount of power generated is difficult and
takes a lot of time - so when demand drops suddenly (or unexpentedly)
they just turn on lots of heaters to soak up the spare. Neat eh?

Not really. What do I want with a heater coming on outwith my control
when it's already hot enough to fry an egg on the floor in summer?

MM

Each heater has 2 thermostats. The heater won't get any hotter once
the "input" stat has reached its set temperature, and the heater will
try not to give out any more heat once the room has reached the
"output" stat temperature. Whatever time the power is turned on and
off to the heater the temperature of the room will only really depend
on the setting of the two dials (unless you try and drain more heat
than it contains!).

No offence taken - no, we are fully aware of the 'boost' capabuility and
have been from day one. Those manuals - they're amazing aren't they!? ;-)


"Scott M" wrote in message
...
Scott M wrote:

Sounds like your flaps are stuck open. The problem is the heaters are
letting all the heat out at night instead of holding it for when it's
wanted later.

One thing I've found again and again with E7 heaters is that only a very
few sad people (like me) can be bothered to work out how they work and
how best to work with them. The upshot is that "they" will crank both
controls to maximum and wonder why it's cold by 10am.

Just to add: this was a general observation and not a pop at the OP!

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

Mike Mitchell wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:35:59 +0100, "Set Square"
wrote:

If I had them, I'd throw the lot out and put in a decent gas-fired system
with radiators. Not only is this much cheaper to run, but it is also
infinitely more controllable - and provides heat when *you* want it - not
when your supplier says you can have it!

An interesting thread, as I am contemplating whether to go for
properties with Economy 7 heating. The feeling seems to be, no.


snip

As someone who has just bought a flat, Electric Storage heating was
enough to dismiss any potential flat. I didn't even go to see any. No
way. I have lived with it for a few months at future mother in laws.
Gas Combi boiler is (in my opinion!) the way forward.

M.

In message ,
Mike Mitchell wrote:

What about just using electric heaters (not eco 7 ones)
and lots of insulation?


It is possible, even in Britain, to have a house so well insulated that
it needs (next to) no additional space heating at all. As one example of
many, Bob and Brenda Vale in their book "The New Autonomous House" built
a house which needed no space heating at all, save for a single
wood-burning stove in the central hall which was lit for a total of
(something like, I don't have the book to hand) 20 days in the first
winter while the house was still drying out. All the rest of the heat in
the house came from incidental gains from the sun and from people and
appliances in the house - a 100W lightbulb acts like a 90W heater for
example :-)

Unfortunately retro-fitting this level of insulation to an existing
house is nigh-on impossible.

As you will find if you look at previous discussions on uk.d-i-y with
the usual groups.google search, there seem to be two camps in this
field. The first advocates extremely thermally "lightweight" houses
where the insulation is as close as possible to the inside of the box -
with these you only have to heat the air in the room and not the
structure of the house. It has the advantage of very quick heat-up
times, but the disadvantage of very little incidental storage of heat
energy and so relies on short bursts of heat input and cannot take
(much) advantage of "free" energy from diverse sources such as the sun
and even occupants. It is probably best suited to people who only occupy
the house for short periods - i.e. are out at work during the day and
out playing at night. The house can be left unheated (or heated to a
lower than normal level) when unoccupied, and will very quickly come up
to temperature when required.

The second camp advocates thermally "heavy" houses. In these you use the
construction of the house as part of your thermal control system. For
example, earth-sheltered houses are built partly underground. If you
build far enough underground you'll find that the ground temperature is
relatively constant through the year. It may only be around 8 degrees or
so, but in the summer this makes keeping cool easier, and in winter it is
likely to be higher than the outside air temperature. Less of a thermal
gradient across your structure means less energy flow.

With or without an earth shelter, if you build your house using large
amounts of concrete and masonry (and preferably plaster rather than
board) then it is also possible to take advantage of heat gains (perhaps
from the sun) by "storing" them in the structure of the building. For
example on a sunny day, a south-facing room might get quite warm just
from the sun. If it is made with heavy walls and floors then some of
this heat will be stored in the walls and floor, keeping the room
slightly cooler, and will be released into the room during the night
when the air is cooler.

The major disadvantage is that it takes a long time for the house to
heat up from "cold". These days it is easier to get around this by using
compensating heating controllers with external temperature sensors, and
this sort of control is often fitted in conjunction with a high-latency
heating system such as underfloor heating. What it really means though
is that a thermally heavy house is best suited to a family which will be
in the house more than they are out. The house is then kept at a
relatively constant temperature.

Both types of construction require high amounts of insulation - way
beyond current regulations - and also only really work when the
structure is as airtight as possible to avoid chilling draughts. With
airtight structures you then have to have some controlled means of
changing the air in the house and this often falls to some kind of
mechanical system. These are becoming quite popular now, especially the
ones which recover the heat from the outgoing "stale" air and transfer
it to the incoming "fresh".

Of course, there is a lot you can do retrospectively even in an old
house, but don't expect to do away with the need for a properly-planned
heating system!

As I said, there's been a lot of discussion on these topics on this list
over the years, but we haven't had one for a while... as IMM and Andy
seem to be at it again in other threads, perhaps now is the time :-)

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... We do what we can but it's never enough.

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 15:35:45 GMT, Scott M wrote:

One thing I've found again and again with E7 heaters is that only a
very few sad people (like me) can be bothered to work out how they
work and how best to work with them.

It's the constant fiddling with the two settings, one of which ideally
needs to be done with knowledge of the future, that is the PITA. Now
if they had a central control point so you didn't have to wander round
each heater twice a day storage heaters might be far more user
friendly.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 09:16:04 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
strung together this:

Now
if they had a central control point so you didn't have to wander round
each heater twice a day storage heaters might be far more user
friendly.

Some do, but not many are fitted with the central controller as it
adds to the cost. I suppose its much the same as the gravity\pumped
heating arguments when pumped first became available.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd