s--p--o--n--i--x wrote:

I'd suggest that the Aldi nail gun is decent otherwise why would they
risk guaranteeing it for three years? Surely they'd just stick a 12
month guarantee on it?

Because they know that statistically most of the people who buy it will
mostly be non trade users, and hence it will be used intensively only on
a short term project by project basis.

So they have done the sum that says:

"better guarentee = better sales = more sale profits"

"better guarentee = more returns = more return costs"

So long as "more sale profits more return costs" it is worth it.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Doctor Evil wrote:

Guarantees are just a marketing tool, they say nothing about the quality
of the tool or the company that makes them


Bertie, it gives peace of mind to the buyer in that within 3 years they can
have their money back or the item replace if defective. Are you suggesting
that people ignore the 3 yr guarantee?

No I think he is saying they are a marketing tool. i.e. they increase
sales because "it gives peace of mind to the buyer in that within 3
years they can have their money back or the item replace if defective"
(sic).

It's a numbers game....

With something like a nail gun however there is also the question of
what happens when you want a new firing pin (they wear out, and one
misfire can knacker one as well)?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:24:45 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:58:50 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
There is a large difference in build quality between these £20 air
tools and decent ones.

Oh, pshaw. You have not seen the item in question. I'm sure there's
some difference - maybe yours is chrome-plated and has a nice sparkly
badge on it. I don't know, and don't care - but coming out with stupid
statements as above reflects badly on you.

I think it reflects quite accurately, tho, which is helpful for future reference.


I think that it actually reflects that you have no idea about the
safety aspects of air tools.

incorrect, I've used many air tools. I've even been forced onto an H&S course
(got a certificate somewhere) where people like you took a whole afternoon
to labouriously spell out (what could have been conveyed in 30mins) instructions
on the correct use of tools & compressors (even tho we'd been using them for
years with no problems) /and/ the need to have them certificated annually /and/
shown a video of various air tool accidents, ad nauseum.

people like you seem make a song and dance about being in posession of
superior knowledge that many treat as general knowledge or common sense.

As soon as you begin to use expressions such as "people like you", you
are making assumptions about the other person that are almost
certainly unfounded, especially since you have never met me.

I simply pointed out that there is an increased risk from air tools of
poor material and build quality and described what happened when
somebody who had been using one completely correctly had one fall
apart on them.

You may understand the risks, although generally it is *people like
you* who have "been using them for years" who are the most likely to
be careless and have accidents.

Nothing that I have said here conveys or implies any superior
knowledge at all, other than that I have used a lot of air tools and
that there are potential pitfalls for the unwary.

personally, if some numpty offs themselves due to incorrect use of any power tool,
£20 or £100, then I'm all for it, preferably before they breed.

That really does demonstrate a stupid attitude.




darwinism in action.


Are you from Australia yourself at all??



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:40:09 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:



We've never bought a lottery ticket - of ANY kind - ever.

No idea what a cheap laser guide is.

But I bet you buy some things on price which I wouldn't, does that make you
gullible?

Mary


I can't think of anything that I've ever bought only on price, Mary.

Of course it's a factor, but only a factor.

I decide what I want to buy first, price being but one of many
factors, and then look at sources.

If it's a commodity item, or I don't need service from the retailer,
and the time and cost for going and getting are the same, then of
course I will go for the lowest price.

However, often one has to weight the time and cost of going and
getting or shipping etc.

--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:08:17 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:04:19 +0000, Mike Halmarack
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:58:50 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
There is a large difference in build quality between these £20 air
tools and decent ones.

Oh, pshaw. You have not seen the item in question. I'm sure there's
some difference - maybe yours is chrome-plated and has a nice sparkly
badge on it. I don't know, and don't care - but coming out with stupid
statements as above reflects badly on you.

I think it reflects quite accurately, tho, which is helpful for future reference.



RT

Personally I think Andy Hall is motivated by his perfectionist desire
for quality. The second most likely possibility would be rather too
damning.

Thanks for the thought Mike.

Actually I'm not a perfectionist as such. I prefer to achieve things
well, effectively and efficiently. If you achieve perfection, there
is only one way to go, and that is away from it, so not a good idea.

OK, I understand from what you write that you're not a perfectionist.
If you were you'd know it *can't* be achieved. The "Big Guy" tried
with the "Crown of Creation" and look what a shower we turned out to
be. I suppose it can still be moved away from though.


However in general you're right about one aspect of my product
choices, and that is doing a good job. The main part for me is
looking at all of the aspects, and not just the purchase price as I've
said before.

On this particular topic, though, my issue is not one of tool
performance, although better nailers certainly do perform better than
entry level ones. The results are more consistent and the mechanisms
are much less prone to jamming. My major concern is over safety
here. Compressed air and compressed air tools are very useful and
very effective - I use them both a lot. However, compressed air,
although seemingly inoccuous in comparison with electricity and other
energy sources, can be absolutely lethal, especially when brought
together with a percussion tool like a nailer.

In this area, I simply think that it is foolhardy to go for anything
less than the best tools that you can get regardless of price. A
comparable, good quality nailer costs around £100 rather than the £20
under discussion here. I value my eyes, fingers and other bits of
my body far more highly than £80.



--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

Doctor Evil wrote:

http://uk.aldi.com/special_buys/product_132.html

Personally I find that advert is bordering on the deliberatly misleading...

While they do not suggest any appropriate uses for the nailer (or even
state its "guage" for that matter), the "decking" backdrop is no doubt
calculated to create the impression that this would be a suitable use
for it.

I presume it also plays on a general lack of knowedge in the general
buying public regarding nailers. "Oh look, I saw Tommy Walsh using one
of them there things to build a pergola and do some decking on Ground Farce"



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Andy Hall wrote:

As soon as you begin to use expressions such as "people like you", you
are making assumptions about the other person that are almost
certainly unfounded, especially since you have never met me.

As soon as you start making assumptions about safety of tools you've
never even *seen*, purely on the basis of price, you put yourself on
dodgy ground, and are exposed to ridicule, as has justy happened.

John Rumm wrote:
Personally I find that advert is bordering on the deliberatly misleading...

Well, complain to the ASA, then. Whinging here won't help, will it.

John Rumm wrote:
No I think he is saying they are a marketing tool. i.e. they increase
sales because "it gives peace of mind to the buyer in that within 3
years they can have their money back or the item replace if defective"
(sic).

Supply is limited. Could be a "loss leader".

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

http://uk.aldi.com/special_buys/product_132.html

Personally I find that advert is bordering on the deliberatly
misleading...

While they do not suggest any appropriate uses for the nailer (or even
state its "guage" for that matter), the "decking" backdrop is no doubt
calculated to create the impression that this would be a suitable use
for it.

You're quite right, John, it's an appalling bit of advertising - they should
have pictured it being used to fix quadrant beading or similar!

I've got a cheepie 18g brad nailer that I've used extensively for light duty
work and it's never let me down... so I'd be interested in Andy's experience
of one blowing up being explained in more detail, i.e. what actually went
wrong, and should I be inspecting mine for signs of wear in any particular
area??

Cheers,

Dave

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:11:18 +0000, Mike Halmarack
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:08:17 +0000, Andy Hall

Thanks for the thought Mike.

Actually I'm not a perfectionist as such. I prefer to achieve things
well, effectively and efficiently. If you achieve perfection, there
is only one way to go, and that is away from it, so not a good idea.

OK, I understand from what you write that you're not a perfectionist.
If you were you'd know it *can't* be achieved. The "Big Guy" tried
with the "Crown of Creation" and look what a shower we turned out to
be. I suppose it can still be moved away from though.


My sentiments exactly




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

I simply pointed out

blah blah blah.

you are a safety nazi, one of the lifestyle police that think you know best even
though the tool in question will have been tested for market and job suitability
by people far more qualified than you.

there's also a distinct possibility that your expensive 'better' tool was made in
the same factory as a cheaper 'poorer quality' and rebadged simply to rope
in people like you.

if you don't want it, don't buy it but in the meantime don't sit on the sidelines quacking
on about ifs, ands and maybes, it makes you sound like an old woman.


RT

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:14:27 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

As soon as you begin to use expressions such as "people like you", you
are making assumptions about the other person that are almost
certainly unfounded, especially since you have never met me.

As soon as you start making assumptions about safety of tools you've
never even *seen*, purely on the basis of price, you put yourself on
dodgy ground, and are exposed to ridicule, as has justy happened.

Absolutely not.

I didn't suggest that I have seen this particular tool.

I simply pointed out that I have seen a lot in this category which
were from two different sources and in all respects apart from the
colour of the paint and the badge were identical and of very poor
build quality in comparison to a good quality product from Senco,
Porter Cable, Hitachi and a small number of others.

I went on to describe the results of what happened when one of these,
although used correctly, fell apart and pieces embedded into a wall.

There is an obvious correlation between poor manufacturing quality and
materials and such an outcome.

There is a further correlation between poor quality of mechanism and
jamming. While the instructions do warn about disconnecting the
airline before doing anything to the tool, people do take risks.
Therefore the greater the number of times the tool jams, the greater
the risk.

It's entirely possible that Aldi have worked wonders and have been
able to source a tool that costs £25-30 elsewhere such that they can
sell it at £20. It may even be that it's a different buyer to the
one who secured a deal at Covent Garden to be able to offer two
cucumbers for the price of one, but possibly not.

However, it is highly unlikely that they have been able to source a
tool equivalent in build and material quality to the best nailers on
the market.

My point was simply that with air tools it is unwise to buy at the low
end, and I have explained why.

If you feel that purchase price is more important to you then that's
your choice.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:20:17 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

John Rumm wrote:
No I think he is saying they are a marketing tool. i.e. they increase
sales because "it gives peace of mind to the buyer in that within 3
years they can have their money back or the item replace if defective"
(sic).

Supply is limited. Could be a "loss leader".

or dumping of old stock acquired for next to nothing ....




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:24:45 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:58:50 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
There is a large difference in build quality between these £20 air
tools and decent ones.

Oh, pshaw. You have not seen the item in question. I'm sure there's
some difference - maybe yours is chrome-plated and has a nice
sparkly
badge on it. I don't know, and don't care - but coming out with
stupid
statements as above reflects badly on you.

I think it reflects quite accurately, tho, which is helpful for future
reference.


I think that it actually reflects that you have no idea about the
safety aspects of air tools.

incorrect, I've used many air tools. I've even been forced onto an H&S
course
(got a certificate somewhere) where people like you took a whole afternoon
to labouriously spell out (what could have been conveyed in 30mins)
instructions
on the correct use of tools & compressors (even tho we'd been using them
for
years with no problems) /and/ the need to have them certificated annually
/and/
shown a video of various air tool accidents, ad nauseum.

people like you seem make a song and dance about being in posession of
superior knowledge that many treat as general knowledge or common sense.

As soon as you begin to use expressions such as "people like you", you
are making assumptions about the other person that are almost
certainly unfounded, especially since you have never met me.

I simply pointed out that there is an increased risk from air tools of
poor material and build quality and described what happened when
somebody who had been using one completely correctly had one fall
apart on them.

You may understand the risks, although generally it is *people like
you* who have "been using them for years" who are the most likely to
be careless and have accidents.

Nothing that I have said here conveys or implies any superior
knowledge at all, other than that I have used a lot of air tools and
that there are potential pitfalls for the unwary.

personally, if some numpty offs themselves due to incorrect use of any
power tool,
£20 or £100, then I'm all for it, preferably before they breed.

That really does demonstrate a stupid attitude.




darwinism in action.


Are you from Australia yourself at all??



Andy don't worry about him (news) the blokes a complete idiot who can only
communicate in the modern day equivalent of caveman language.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:11:43 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Doctor Evil wrote:

http://uk.aldi.com/special_buys/product_132.html

Personally I find that advert is bordering on the deliberatly misleading...

Bordering on? It's way over the line.

If I could be bothered, I'd write to the ASA and trading standards.

This thing is cheap enough that I am sure that the retailer has
figured out that most people will drop it in the cupboard and forget
about it.


While they do not suggest any appropriate uses for the nailer (or even
state its "guage" for that matter), the "decking" backdrop is no doubt
calculated to create the impression that this would be a suitable use
for it.

I presume it also plays on a general lack of knowedge in the general
buying public regarding nailers. "Oh look, I saw Tommy Walsh using one
of them there things to build a pergola and do some decking on Ground Farce"


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

RedOnRed wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:24:45 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:58:50 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
There is a large difference in build quality between these £20 air
tools and decent ones.

Oh, pshaw. You have not seen the item in question. I'm sure there's
some difference - maybe yours is chrome-plated and has a nice
sparkly
badge on it. I don't know, and don't care - but coming out with
stupid
statements as above reflects badly on you.

I think it reflects quite accurately, tho, which is helpful for future
reference.


I think that it actually reflects that you have no idea about the
safety aspects of air tools.

incorrect, I've used many air tools. I've even been forced onto an H&S
course
(got a certificate somewhere) where people like you took a whole afternoon
to labouriously spell out (what could have been conveyed in 30mins)
instructions
on the correct use of tools & compressors (even tho we'd been using them
for
years with no problems) /and/ the need to have them certificated annually
/and/
shown a video of various air tool accidents, ad nauseum.

people like you seem make a song and dance about being in posession of
superior knowledge that many treat as general knowledge or common sense.

As soon as you begin to use expressions such as "people like you", you
are making assumptions about the other person that are almost
certainly unfounded, especially since you have never met me.

I simply pointed out that there is an increased risk from air tools of
poor material and build quality and described what happened when
somebody who had been using one completely correctly had one fall
apart on them.

You may understand the risks, although generally it is *people like
you* who have "been using them for years" who are the most likely to
be careless and have accidents.

Nothing that I have said here conveys or implies any superior
knowledge at all, other than that I have used a lot of air tools and
that there are potential pitfalls for the unwary.

personally, if some numpty offs themselves due to incorrect use of any
power tool,
£20 or £100, then I'm all for it, preferably before they breed.

That really does demonstrate a stupid attitude.




darwinism in action.


Are you from Australia yourself at all??



Andy don't worry about him (news) the blokes a complete idiot who can only
communicate in the modern day equivalent of caveman language.

hahaha, punctuation. ever heard of it ?

do you even know what red on red means ?

no, lemme guess, it's about football.




RT

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:25:25 -0000, "Dave" wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Doctor Evil wrote:

http://uk.aldi.com/special_buys/product_132.html

Personally I find that advert is bordering on the deliberatly
misleading...

While they do not suggest any appropriate uses for the nailer (or even
state its "guage" for that matter), the "decking" backdrop is no doubt
calculated to create the impression that this would be a suitable use
for it.

You're quite right, John, it's an appalling bit of advertising - they should
have pictured it being used to fix quadrant beading or similar!

I've got a cheepie 18g brad nailer that I've used extensively for light duty
work and it's never let me down... so I'd be interested in Andy's experience
of one blowing up being explained in more detail, i.e. what actually went
wrong, and should I be inspecting mine for signs of wear in any particular
area??

On the one that I saw, the mechanism jammed, then the clip holding the
retainer for the hammer gave way and both of these plus some nails
flew off at an angle. Some bits ended up in a wall about 2m away and
others were on the floor about 5m away.

Obviously lubrication is an important issue, but the hammers are a
consumable item, and especially if the tolerances of the tool are not
good will probably wear more quickly. I replace the hammers and
manufacturer's recommended parts as a matter of course according to
their schedule.

I would check these at least, and certainly investigate very carefully
if there are any instances of jamming. If there is a retaining clip,
then I suspect that that would be another risk item.

The important thing is that if you even suspect a mechanical problem,
either replace the pieces (if you can get them) or throw the tool
away.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

The important thing is that if you even suspect a mechanical problem,
either replace the pieces (if you can get them) or throw the tool
away.

Or get your money back.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message

The "Big Guy" tried
with the "Crown of Creation"


My sentiments exactly

I'd like to know what you're talking about ...

Mary

In article , Chris Bacon wrote:
Supply is limited. Could be a "loss leader".

On a product of this sort in this sort of store I doubt it - if
you and I go into buy one I would bet that there's a fair chance
we'd come out with this item only. Loss leaders work when they
lose 20p on one item and make £5 on the basket.

I would guess that the weekly specials are deals struck with
suppliers who will cut very good deals for a guaranteed no
returns no promotional cost production run. We sell our
SuperBeam software for £149, but if Aldi would like to sign up
for 100,000 copies they can have them for £10 each g

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Andy Hall wrote:
"Dave" wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote...
Doctor Evil wrote:
http://uk.aldi.com/special_buys/product_132.html

Personally I find that advert is bordering on the deliberatly
misleading...

You're quite right, John, it's an appalling bit of advertising - they should
have pictured it being used to fix quadrant beading or similar!

(from another article):
Bordering on? It's way over the line.
If I could be bothered, I'd write to the ASA and trading standards.

Well, you should do it. If these people make misleading claims, then
people who aren't "in the know" could be fooled, and buy something
inappropriate to their needs. It's your responsibility to complain.
Do it!

Doctor Evil wrote:
£80 for a compressor and nail guns is excellent value.

The compressor is £60 in the UK, and E100 in Ireland, the equivalent of
£69.28. Interesting.

"[news]" wrote in message
...
RedOnRed wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:24:45 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:58:50 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:
There is a large difference in build quality between these
£20 air
tools and decent ones.

Oh, pshaw. You have not seen the item in question. I'm sure
there's
some difference - maybe yours is chrome-plated and has a nice
sparkly
badge on it. I don't know, and don't care - but coming out with
stupid
statements as above reflects badly on you.

I think it reflects quite accurately, tho, which is helpful for
future
reference.


I think that it actually reflects that you have no idea about the
safety aspects of air tools.

incorrect, I've used many air tools. I've even been forced onto an
H&S
course
(got a certificate somewhere) where people like you took a whole
afternoon
to labouriously spell out (what could have been conveyed in 30mins)
instructions
on the correct use of tools & compressors (even tho we'd been using
them
for
years with no problems) /and/ the need to have them certificated
annually
/and/
shown a video of various air tool accidents, ad nauseum.

people like you seem make a song and dance about being in posession
of
superior knowledge that many treat as general knowledge or common
sense.

As soon as you begin to use expressions such as "people like you", you
are making assumptions about the other person that are almost
certainly unfounded, especially since you have never met me.

I simply pointed out that there is an increased risk from air tools of
poor material and build quality and described what happened when
somebody who had been using one completely correctly had one fall
apart on them.

You may understand the risks, although generally it is *people like
you* who have "been using them for years" who are the most likely to
be careless and have accidents.

Nothing that I have said here conveys or implies any superior
knowledge at all, other than that I have used a lot of air tools and
that there are potential pitfalls for the unwary.

personally, if some numpty offs themselves due to incorrect use of
any
power tool,
£20 or £100, then I'm all for it, preferably before they breed.

That really does demonstrate a stupid attitude.




darwinism in action.


Are you from Australia yourself at all??



Andy don't worry about him (news) the blokes a complete idiot who can
only
communicate in the modern day equivalent of caveman language.

hahaha, punctuation. ever heard of it ?

do you even know what red on red means ?

no, lemme guess, it's about football.




What do you know about punctuation? You can't even use capitals and while
we're at it...just what does lemme mean caveman boy?

RedOnRed doesn't mean a thing. BlueOnBlue however is another thing, but then
that's immaterial in this context.

Judging by your previous postings you're clearly a manual worker that
presumably has little customer facing skills? Does your boss prefer to keep
you in some dark, damp corner in order to least offend your punters...am I
warm?

RedOnRed wrote:

What do you know about punctuation? You can't even use capitals and while
we're at it...just what does lemme mean caveman boy?

RedOnRed doesn't mean a thing.

agreed. you're meanignless.

BlueOnBlue however is another thing, but then
that's immaterial in this context.

Judging by your previous postings you're clearly a manual worker that
presumably has little customer facing skills? Does your boss prefer to keep
you in some dark, damp corner in order to least offend your punters...am I
warm?

cold as a pavement pizza on christmas day. I am the boss ;-)

are you a customer ?

R.O.A.R. please leave or I'll forcibly eject you.



RT

Chris Bacon wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

The important thing is that if you even suspect a mechanical problem,
either replace the pieces (if you can get them) or throw the tool
away.

Or get your money back.

at any point in the next three years


RT

"Chris Bacon" wrote in message
...
Magician wrote:
Screwfix have a deal at present; compressor

DON'T USE IT! Compressed AIR is HIGHLY DANGEROUS in UNTRAINED hands, and
anyway at that PRICE it is almost sure to BLOW UP in your FACE!!!!

brad gun,

DON'T USE IT! At that PRICE it is almost SURE to SPRAY BRADS all over
the place, possibly NAILING YOUR HEAD to the WALL! And that's JUST
BEFORE it BLOWS UP in your FACE!!!!

blow gun,

DON'T USE IT!!! It is VERY liable to EXPLODE, possibly TAKING YOUR HOUSE
DOWN!!!! At the very LEAST it is LIABLE to BLOW UP in your FACE!!!!

tyre inflator,

THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! A tyre INFLATOR at this price won't have the POWER
to function PROPERLY, and even if it DOES, the TYRE INFLATOR is likely
to BLOW UP in your FACE shortly before your CAR TYRE EXPLODES shredding
your GONADS!!!!

spray gun

A splay GUN - oh my GOD - RUN for COVER even if it's STILL in it's BOX!
YOU KNOW it's HIGHLY likely to BLOW UP in your FACE!!!!

all for £60!

YOU SHOULD be paying at least £6,000,000 for a SET UP like this, else it
WILL NOT be effective & is SURE TO BE likely to BLOW UP in your FACE!!!!

I bought one two years ago when they were £99 and I can't fault it

AH. OH. Oh well I've nothing to say to you I will HAVE to - OFF now for
a quick LIE DOWN in my BEDROOM and have a QUICK PLAY with MY TOOLs.

(haven't used the spray gun).

Dave - thanks - noffence intended - see rest of thread. ROFL.

I went into Aldi today and looked at one of these nail guns. It immediately
disintegrated as I looked at it and exploded showering the shoppers in
shrapnel. Made a mess of the bread shelves. Appalling.



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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:49:28 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
There is a large difference in build quality between these £20 air
tools and decent ones.

Oh, pshaw. You have not seen the item in question. I'm sure there's
some difference - maybe yours is chrome-plated and has a nice sparkly
badge on it. I don't know, and don't care - but coming out with stupid
statements as above reflects badly on you.


I don't think so.

I simply don't believe that something for £20 in Aldi is going to be
of a different build quality to something for £20 in B&Q or anywhere
else.

The stuff they sell is from the same suppliers. 3 yr gurantees, etc.



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"[news]" wrote in message
...
RedOnRed wrote:

What do you know about punctuation? You can't even use capitals and while
we're at it...just what does lemme mean caveman boy?

RedOnRed doesn't mean a thing.

agreed. you're meanignless.

BlueOnBlue however is another thing, but then
that's immaterial in this context.

Judging by your previous postings you're clearly a manual worker that
presumably has little customer facing skills? Does your boss prefer to
keep
you in some dark, damp corner in order to least offend your punters...am
I
warm?

cold as a pavement pizza on christmas day. I am the boss ;-)

are you a customer ?

Of course, I never thought of that. You're the boss and you've got used to
speaking to people like ****, just the way you want to speak to people.



R.O.A.R. please leave or I'll forcibly eject you.



RT

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


On the one that I saw, the mechanism jammed, then the clip holding the
retainer for the hammer gave way and both of these plus some nails
flew off at an angle. Some bits ended up in a wall about 2m away and
others were on the floor about 5m away.

Nothing to do with sophisticated machiney like the above but a relatively
primitive tool

Spouse has been occasionally using a small hammer for many years. It might
even have been his father's (and no it hasn't had any new heads although he
did replace the handle once in the last twenty years). It has been very
reliable and wasn't a cheap one.

The other day he was using it - without any great force, he has a range of
hammers and knws when to use them for what application. He's also a
metallurgist so understands about metals and aging and work hardening and
all the rest and so do I before anyone tries to blind me with science.

Part of the head flew off, it could have been very nasty, damaging his
eyesight, his hands, his... well whatever. The odds, come to think of it, of
any flying bit damagine any one part of the body are quite high. Anyway,
he's still intact, he does more damage to his hands cutting brambles. He
certainly leaked a lot of red stuff when he was knapping flints last year.

Accidents happen to the best of us, in all circumstances, using all kinds of
tools. They do happen more to some people but I believe that's more to do
with the user than the tool.

The important thing is that if you even suspect a mechanical problem,
either replace the pieces (if you can get them) or throw the tool
away.

Sadly he's had to limit his beloved hammer to only using the other part of
the head. He won't throw it away. He was looking at some in Lidl to replace
it but they didn't have the right type and he's very particular about the
right tool for the particular application. He has all the ones they offered
which he had a use for but, he said, if he hadn't he'd have been happy to
buy them.

Mary

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
I simply don't believe that something for £20 in Aldi is going to be
of a different build quality to something for £20 in B&Q or anywhere
else. I have seen a wide variety of the low end ones in different
places. They are all the same apart from trim.

Dunno. I bought one of those car starter packs with built in compressor
for 20 quid in Lidl, and have just seen the self same brand in the Frost
catalogue for 50 quid. Now Frost sell some high quality stuff. Makes you
wonder.

--
*Suicidal twin kills sister by mistake.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

RedOnRed wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
...
RedOnRed wrote:

What do you know about punctuation? You can't even use capitals and while
we're at it...just what does lemme mean caveman boy?

RedOnRed doesn't mean a thing.

agreed. you're meanignless.

BlueOnBlue however is another thing, but then
that's immaterial in this context.

Judging by your previous postings you're clearly a manual worker that
presumably has little customer facing skills? Does your boss prefer to
keep
you in some dark, damp corner in order to least offend your punters...am
I
warm?

cold as a pavement pizza on christmas day. I am the boss ;-)

are you a customer ?

Of course, I never thought of that. You're the boss and you've got used to
speaking to people like ****, just the way you want to speak to people.


another line of posts with nothing to do with the OP or the original
question .classic trolling, I'm sorry for playing along.

/end


RT

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
I simply don't believe that something for £20 in Aldi is going to be
of a different build quality to something for £20 in B&Q or anywhere
else. I have seen a wide variety of the low end ones in different
places. They are all the same apart from trim.

Dunno. I bought one of those car starter packs with built in compressor
for 20 quid in Lidl, and have just seen the self same brand in the Frost
catalogue for 50 quid. Now Frost sell some high quality stuff. Makes you
wonder.

it does indeed. get a JT Frith cash and carry card, you'll be shocked
at just how much of a markup most UK stores have on items like that.



RT

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 14:42:37 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:38:07 +0000, Holly in France
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:13:27 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

There is a huge difference in build quality between these
£20 jobs and a good quality one like a Senco. The latter will cost
around £100, but I simply don't think it's worth the risk of skimping
where compressed air is concerned.

Andy, can you recommend a nail gun (with it's own air supply) for around
the 100GBP mark which would do for secret nailing chestnut parquet flooring
onto green(ish) oak joists please? Friends of our asked us this the other
day and we don't know. My husband suggested that they invest in a decent
hammer but they didn't seem very happy with that suggestion :-)



This is rather specific, Holly.

I know and in fact it turned out to be wrong aswell! Sorry about that, I
was given the wrong message too. Apparently they have decided to put
plasterboard onto the joists and battens on top, so that will make the
nailing a bit easier.

I'm no expert on parquet flooring, but thought that it had to be laid
onto a substrate such as ply.

Ah yes, I know what you mean, should have thought of that. The French use
the word parquet for small pieces of wood, which you will be thinking of,
and larger bits too. These are about 4" wide and vary from about 500mm to
1500mm in length I think.

If they are talking about secret nailing larger boards to joists,

which they were, well spotted!

then
there are air nailers for that, but they are specialised and pretty
expensive. There are mechanical only flooring nailers but even these
are north of £200.

There are a selection at www.rutlands.co.uk Enter "flooring nailer"
and search.

OK I'll pass that on, thanks.

Since this is such a specific tool, it probably makes sense to rent
it, if it's only to several floors in a house.

I think that's probably why they set a budget at around the 100GBP mark.
More than that wouldn't have been worth it. Whether they will find one to
hire around here, and whether the hire shop will allow them to rent it is
another matter entirely :-)

I have used a mechanical one and they certainly save time and make the
job a bit easier.

One important thing with secret nailing of flooring is getting the
nails positioned consistently and well. The specialised nailers
essentially do that for you.

Well that's very interesting, thanks. I think the nail guns my husband has
seen wouldn't have been able to do that, that being one of the reasons he
thought doing it by hand would be better, in that the nail guns can be
inaccurate and split the tongue. Also apparently the tongues on this timber
are straight, ie not really at the right angle for secret nailing.

Thanks again Andy,


--
Holly, in France
Holiday home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr

"[news]" wrote in message
...
RedOnRed wrote:
"[news]" wrote in message
...
RedOnRed wrote:

What do you know about punctuation? You can't even use capitals and
while
we're at it...just what does lemme mean caveman boy?

RedOnRed doesn't mean a thing.

agreed. you're meanignless.

BlueOnBlue however is another thing, but then
that's immaterial in this context.

Judging by your previous postings you're clearly a manual worker that
presumably has little customer facing skills? Does your boss prefer
to
keep
you in some dark, damp corner in order to least offend your
punters...am
I
warm?

cold as a pavement pizza on christmas day. I am the boss ;-)

are you a customer ?

Of course, I never thought of that. You're the boss and you've got used
to
speaking to people like ****, just the way you want to speak to people.


another line of posts with nothing to do with the OP or the original
question .classic trolling, I'm sorry for playing along.

/end

That's OK, we forgive you.




RT

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 15:40:50 GMT, "[news]" wrote:



you are a safety nazi, one of the lifestyle police that think you know best even
though the tool in question will have been tested for market and job suitability
by people far more qualified than you.

That's a stupid accusation. I simply described a situation that I saw
happen and highlighted a potential issue.

It is a big assumption that a product will have been tested for
suitability before being marketed. The normal requirement for most
product categories is for the CE label to be applied to the product,
the packaging, the warranty certificate or the instructions. This
simply indicates that the manufacturer or the organisation marketing
the product is declaring that the product meets all of the applicable
standards for that type of product. For most product categories,
this is a self declaration on the part of said manufacturer or
marketer.

A responsible manufacturer will have put the product through an
independent test lab and have the test reports available. For
example, if you look at any Bosch tool, you will find a Declaration of
Conformity listing the standards tested, the test house and the
signatures of two individuals with contact details on the bottom.

I am not so naive as to assume that this automatically makes the
product good and brilliant, but I tend to think that it's highly
unlikely that an engineering manager from Bosch would put his name to
a product without the testing and paperwork in place.

I am far, far less confident when it comes to a cheap supermarket who
has been somewhat misleading with its product advertising. While I
am not suggesting impropriety, what is probably a lack of knowledge in
the product area, if we give the benefit of the doubt, does not fill
me with faith that the regulatory areas have been properly addressed.



there's also a distinct possibility that your expensive 'better' tool was made in
the same factory as a cheaper 'poorer quality' and rebadged simply to rope
in people like you.

Many organisations use outsource manufacturing. The large
manufacturing houses in China will make a product down to a price if
the customer wants that, or they will make something to the
requirements and using the materials for a quality vendor.

Making the "same factory" argument is stupid.

The important things are the materials used, the quality control,
after sales service and other backup and the quality of the final
product.

If you are unable to tell the difference, then by all means buy the
lower quality item.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:05:20 +0000, Holly in France
wrote:


Andy, can you recommend a nail gun (with it's own air supply) for around
the 100GBP mark which would do for secret nailing chestnut parquet flooring
onto green(ish) oak joists please? Friends of our asked us this the other
day and we don't know. My husband suggested that they invest in a decent
hammer but they didn't seem very happy with that suggestion :-)



This is rather specific, Holly.

I know and in fact it turned out to be wrong aswell! Sorry about that, I
was given the wrong message too. Apparently they have decided to put
plasterboard onto the joists and battens on top, so that will make the
nailing a bit easier.

Do you really mean plasterboard? Usually ply is the typical thing.
One other aspect of this is the use of green oak and possible
movement. Others here such as TNP and possibly Anna know a lot about
this area.





I'm no expert on parquet flooring, but thought that it had to be laid
onto a substrate such as ply.

Ah yes, I know what you mean, should have thought of that. The French use
the word parquet for small pieces of wood, which you will be thinking of,
and larger bits too. These are about 4" wide and vary from about 500mm to
1500mm in length I think.


OK. This is more like random length floor boards. If they are
going for tongue and groove boards, it may be better to do a floating
floor with underlay between the boards and the ply. My concern is
over the possible movement of the joists, though.





If they are talking about secret nailing larger boards to joists,

which they were, well spotted!

then
there are air nailers for that, but they are specialised and pretty
expensive. There are mechanical only flooring nailers but even these
are north of £200.

There are a selection at www.rutlands.co.uk Enter "flooring nailer"
and search.

OK I'll pass that on, thanks.

Since this is such a specific tool, it probably makes sense to rent
it, if it's only to several floors in a house.

I think that's probably why they set a budget at around the 100GBP mark.
More than that wouldn't have been worth it. Whether they will find one to
hire around here, and whether the hire shop will allow them to rent it is
another matter entirely :-)

Mmmmm..... I think that they ought to get some advice on how to put
the ply on the joists (i.e. is it necessary to account for possible
movement).

Even after that, I think that renting a proper flooring nailer is a
better proposition than using the wrong kind of air nailer. You
probably *could* use an air nailer, but part of the function of the
large mechanical ones is to push the board up as you go.






I have used a mechanical one and they certainly save time and make the
job a bit easier.

One important thing with secret nailing of flooring is getting the
nails positioned consistently and well. The specialised nailers
essentially do that for you.

Well that's very interesting, thanks. I think the nail guns my husband has
seen wouldn't have been able to do that, that being one of the reasons he
thought doing it by hand would be better, in that the nail guns can be
inaccurate and split the tongue. Also apparently the tongues on this timber
are straight, ie not really at the right angle for secret nailing.

Exactly. They are made for this specific job. They get the angle
right and push the piece up and support it.


You can do some of this in other ways but they can be more time
consuming. There are a lot of nails........



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:26:52 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message

The "Big Guy" tried
with the "Crown of Creation"


My sentiments exactly

I'd like to know what you're talking about ...

Mary




Mary, for somebody as close to nature as yourself, I'm surprised :-)



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:26:54 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , Chris Bacon wrote:
Supply is limited. Could be a "loss leader".

On a product of this sort in this sort of store I doubt it - if
you and I go into buy one I would bet that there's a fair chance
we'd come out with this item only. Loss leaders work when they
lose 20p on one item and make £5 on the basket.

I would guess that the weekly specials are deals struck with
suppliers who will cut very good deals for a guaranteed no
returns no promotional cost production run. We sell our
SuperBeam software for £149, but if Aldi would like to sign up
for 100,000 copies they can have them for £10 each g

Well, Tony

This could be a marketing opportunity for them. If you can find the
marketing manager who did the nailer web page, you should have no
difficulty convincing him that Superbeam is something that they could
sell as a gizmo to make your car headlights brighter.

I can see it now - the car picture with the CDROM bluetacked to the
front.

He could probably do this as a project for his day release MBA.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:26:35 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:

The important thing is that if you even suspect a mechanical problem,
either replace the pieces (if you can get them) or throw the tool
away.

Or get your money back.

Possibly.

Part of their calculation is that people will have lost the receipt or
won't be bothered to take the thing back anyway, or have the natural
British reserve about creating a fuss.

These factors alone probably reduce the return rate by an order of
magnitude


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl