"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 21:49:58 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:59:38 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

I read this in the Mirror.

So it must be right then.......

Mr Little Middle Englander, it is right.

Does it still have a reading age of 8?

You are on about the Mail. Your favourite.

In article , Dave Plowman
writes

Well, you apparently don't read this group

Course he doesn't. As far as DIMM is concerned, usenet is write-only.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

In article , Cicero
writes

You can have the best of both worlds if you have the space. Conventional
boiler for CH only and a separate 'Multipoint' for hot water only.

I viewed a house a few weeks ago that had exactly this arrangement.
Despite the vendor singing its praises, I was somewhat dubious.

--
A. Top posters.
Q. What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 23:45:10 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 21:49:58 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:59:38 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

I read this in the Mirror.

So it must be right then.......

Mr Little Middle Englander, it is right.

Does it still have a reading age of 8?

You are on about the Mail. Your favourite.

Oh no, that's even worse.

I don't buy newspapers.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Someone runs the bath "immediately" after the shower? Didn't the get
dried and dressed after? Or in your house do you dart in and out the
shower running past each other along the way, naked.

I know you live in a tiny hovel, but many of us have more than one
bathroom, or a separate shower. Hence the ludicrousness of your one answer
to every problem.

--
*Sometimes I wake up grumpy; Other times I let him sleep.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
You can have the best of both worlds if you have the space. Conventional
boiler for CH only and a separate 'Multipoint' for hot water only.

I viewed a house a few weeks ago that had exactly this arrangement.
Despite the vendor singing its praises, I was somewhat dubious.

I can see the benefits of a combi if you're tight for space, but the above
arrangement gives no advantages I can see over a storage system with
immersion backup. And lots of disadvantages, given that most multipoints
aren't the most reliable things in the world.

--
*Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman
writes

Well, you apparently don't read this group

Course he doesn't. As far as DIMM is concerned, usenet is write-only.


If it can be counted as writing, classing it as random finger prodding seems
more apt at times...

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman
writes

Well, you apparently don't read this group

Course he doesn't. As far as DIMM is concerned, usenet is write-only.

Mt Arse, thank you for your sold contribution.

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , Cicero
writes

You can have the best of both worlds if you have the space. Conventional
boiler for CH only and a separate 'Multipoint' for hot water only.

I viewed a house a few weeks ago that had exactly this arrangement.
Despite the vendor singing its praises, I was somewhat dubious.

If the multpoint gives the flowrate you want, then a good soilution. If the
boiler is down you still have DHW.

Personally I prefer two combi's.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 23:45:10 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 21:49:58 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:59:38 +0100, "IMM"
wrote:

I read this in the Mirror.

So it must be right then.......

Mr Little Middle Englander, it is right.

Does it still have a reading age of 8?

You are on about the Mail. Your favourite.

Oh no, that's even worse.

I don't buy newspapers.

Continually reading Mein Kampf is not a god thing, try The Guardian, the
Daily Mirror, The Observer and the Independent. They will set your right.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:20:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



Continually reading Mein Kampf is not a god thing,

That would be the Bible.

try The Guardian, the
Daily Mirror, The Observer and the Independent. They will set your right.


They may be useful for wrapping chips, but that's about it.

There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even the Times
has taken to running sensationalist crap.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:20:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



Continually reading Mein Kampf is not a god thing,

That would be the Bible.

To you, yes.

try The Guardian, the
Daily Mirror, The Observer and the Independent. They will set your
right.

They may be useful for wrapping chips, but that's about it.

WW2 was a long time ago.

There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer.

I ust gave you some.

IMM wrote:

You are right - I fail to make any sense of your nonsense....


You lack understanding. FULL STOP.

Yup could not agree more - can't make head nor tail of most of the stuff
you write...

Will it also adjust the cold tap on the
bath for you?


It can be arranged.

So you accept it might be a requirement? Jolly good you are now on the
first steps to a new enlightenment! Just repeat the following mantra to
yourself "One size does not fit all, no matter how much I would like it to"

Here is where you
seem to loose the plot.


The plot in your misinformed eyes, you mean.


When the water was coming out of the hot tap at
full rate, you set the taps such that you were
adding 50% cold water to the mix to arrive at
your final bath temperature. The boiler now decides
to make a big reduction to the hot flow rate


This "now", be more specific.

11:45pm - that better? (The bath tap was turned on at 11:42pm)

Also how does the shower perform after
someone has been showering for
five minutes and then someone else runs a bath?


Someone runs the bath "immediately" after the shower? Didn't the get dried
and dressed after? Or in your house do you dart in and out the shower
running past each other along the way, naked.

You will perhaps have to adjust your world view to a household that has
more than just one bath and perhaps includes (oh the decadence) a
separate shower as well.

yup agree - filling it is not the issue....


Is emptying the bath an issue?

In your case I could understand that would be an issue. Even if the
instructions were printed on the underside of the plug.

What are you on about dopey? It does NOT run out of hot water.

Oh the irony... Tell me how is snow white these days?

In your household perhaps - does that
apply to everyone?


yep.


The family with
several teenagers?


Then you get either:

a) Two combi's (never run out of hot water)
b) Heat bank

Erm - do you not have a reality check problem with the above? First a
combi is suitable for every household, but then for some of those
"every" households you will need a heatbank or two combis or a combi
with a PP drill.

Do you have a short term memory problem? Or are you just inconsistent?

Having "several teenagers " in the family is not average. Look up
"average".

Who is talking about "average"? Other than perhaps being a level of
intellect you aspire to.

You will just have to accept - combis are fine
but they have limitations.

Wrong! There are various types and sizes of
combi's. The average home,
with average use ca be served by one.

How can my statement possibly be wrong?


It is totally wrong.

You opinion is noted but disregarded. Thank you.

Are you arguing that there are
absolutely no limitations to a combi system?


In an average home, no. A combi can be bought to suit 90 plus of cases.

Then by your definition 10% of average homes, plus an unknown proportion
of non average ones would be better suited with something else. That
would be because the combi boiler has limitations they would wish to
avoid I presume? Or perhaps they are just not available in the right
colours.

Are you incapable of holding any discussion without making unsupported
sweeping generalisations?

A standard system
boiler with separate (correctly sized)
cylinder will be a better
solution in some situations.

Only if the flowrate required can't be met by a combi.

I do believe he has got it.... well done sir!


Got what?

Alzheimer’s it would appear....

You have NEVER experienced a high flowrate combi in action

I installed a high flow rate combi for our
home a few months ago. (High
flow rate by your previous definition that is).
It is good enough.


Does it run warm?

If you turn the hot tap full on then yes...

And I bet you didn't wear a Wayne Rooney mask either.

Very true...


Shameful!

I bet you wear a sooty glove puppet as well... It would explain your
typing, and I guess makes sex feel like it is happening with someone else.

OK Deceased equine, consider yourself beaten.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Andy Hall" wrote
| There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even
| the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.

They printed my letter the other week.

Owain

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 14:36:26 +0100, "Owain"
wrote:

"Andy Hall" wrote
| There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even
| the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.

They printed my letter the other week.

Owain



That's impressive. I've had a couple in there but not recently.

It seems that you either have to cover a topical point in an
interesting way or send them a dotty vicar story.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , Owain wrote:
| There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even
| the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.

They printed my letter the other week.

Did you get phoned up by a letters editor and given the third-degree on
you use of English? Perhaps yours didn't need improving but when they
printed a letter of mine a few years back I was taken through what I
had written as if I were an 11 year old schoolboy. "I think that you
mean large supermarkets, not big" said my inquisitor and I felt
powerless to disagree. And so it went on, sentence by sentence being
reconstructed.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

In article ,
Owain wrote:
| There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even
| the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.

They printed my letter the other week.

The real test would be if they printed a letter from IMM.

--
He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andy Hall" wrote
| "Owain" wrote:
| | Even the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.
| They printed my letter the other week.
| That's impressive. I've had a couple in there but not recently.

It's my first Times letter, previous publication history is limited to
Electronics Something years ago, and PC Magazine (who never sent me the £20
they promised for letter of the month).

| It seems that you either have to cover a topical point in an
| interesting way or send them a dotty vicar story.

Or write something slightly topical, slightly humorous, non-controversial,
and very short, that they can use as filler.

Rev Owain

"Tony Bryer" wrote
| Did you get phoned up by a letters editor and given the third-degree
| on you use of English?

No. I had a pleasant chat with a Tim Nice-and-Very-Intelligent-Sounding type
who said they liked to talk to their "authors" before publishing, wanted to
check whether I was a Mr or a Sir, and hoped I'd write again.

| Perhaps yours didn't need improving but when they printed a letter
| of mine a few years back I was taken through what I had written
| as if I were an 11 year old schoolboy. "I think that you mean
| large supermarkets, not big" said my inquisitor and I felt
| powerless to disagree. And so it went on, sentence by sentence
| being reconstructed.

I'm sure they only did that to make the line-endings neater when printing.

Owain

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:41:26 +0100, "Owain"
wrote:

"Tony Bryer" wrote
| Did you get phoned up by a letters editor and given the third-degree
| on you use of English?

No. I had a pleasant chat with a Tim Nice-and-Very-Intelligent-Sounding type
who said they liked to talk to their "authors" before publishing, wanted to
check whether I was a Mr or a Sir, and hoped I'd write again.

Now that is class.



| Perhaps yours didn't need improving but when they printed a letter
| of mine a few years back I was taken through what I had written
| as if I were an 11 year old schoolboy. "I think that you mean
| large supermarkets, not big" said my inquisitor and I felt
| powerless to disagree. And so it went on, sentence by sentence
| being reconstructed.

I'm sure they only did that to make the line-endings neater when printing.

Ever thought about the diplomatic service or even sales?

On Tony's point, I had the same experience and pointed out that
English is derived from multiple languages and has such an enormous
vocabulary because generally there are at least two words that can be
used in a given situation. Therefore to maintain the cultural
diversity, I pointed out to the Times person that they should use a
selection of words and not just those of Latin derivation.
He took it on board but then used the Latin words anyway.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

| It seems that you either have to cover a topical point in an
| interesting way or send them a dotty vicar story.

Or write something slightly topical, slightly humorous, non-controversial,
and very short, that they can use as filler.

Yes. I got a couple of letters published in the Sunday Express. I was
mentioning how asylum seekers and economic migrants, on average, benefit the
country. I was careful to particularly point out how retired people
particularly benefit from the fact that it makes it much easier to find care
workers and hospital staff. Oddly, the first of these letters apparently
produced one of the biggest mailbags ever received by the paper, mostly from
retired folk who didn't seem to appreciate the superb efforts made by the
many immigrants responsible for much of their care.

I actually received hate mail directly in return. I was particularly
impressed by the Royal Mail, who delivered it when it simply had my name and
town on the envelope (as published in the paper). The hate mail consisted of
lots of newspaper cuttings with pictures of primary school classes starting
the new year, most of whom were not of European ethnic origin, asking if I
wished to live in a place like that. The answer obviously being yes, given
that my local primary school is a good mixture of many cultures, which will
hopefully mean my children will grow up with a tolerant and respectful
attitude, rather than a bigoted and racist one.

Maybe I'll try the Times next time, but I suspect the readership will be
slightly less rabid, so less easily provoked.

Christian.

"Christian McArdle" wrote
| Yes. I got a couple of letters published in the Sunday Express. ...
| I actually received hate mail directly in return. I was particularly
| impressed by the Royal Mail, who delivered it when it simply had
| my name and town on the envelope (as published in the paper). ...

The Times publishes full addresses, but I think one may write from one's
club.

| Maybe I'll try the Times next time, but I suspect the readership
| will be slightly less rabid, so less easily provoked.

Or perhaps slightly more rabid but across a wider diversity of
eccentricities. My letter was on the subject of sharpening pencils in
polling stations. So far no hate mail from fountain-pen devotees.

Owain

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message et...
| It seems that you either have to cover a topical point in an
| interesting way or send them a dotty vicar story.

Or write something slightly topical, slightly humorous, non-controversial,
and very short, that they can use as filler.

Yes. I got a couple of letters published in the Sunday Express. I was
mentioning how asylum seekers and economic migrants, on average, benefit the
country. I was careful to particularly point out how retired people
particularly benefit from the fact that it makes it much easier to find care
workers and hospital staff. Oddly, the first of these letters apparently
produced one of the biggest mailbags ever received by the paper, mostly from
retired folk who didn't seem to appreciate the superb efforts made by the
many immigrants responsible for much of their care.

I actually received hate mail directly in return. I was particularly
impressed by the Royal Mail, who delivered it when it simply had my name and
town on the envelope (as published in the paper). The hate mail consisted of
lots of newspaper cuttings with pictures of primary school classes starting
the new year, most of whom were not of European ethnic origin, asking if I
wished to live in a place like that. The answer obviously being yes, given
that my local primary school is a good mixture of many cultures, which will
hopefully mean my children will grow up with a tolerant and respectful
attitude, rather than a bigoted and racist one.

Maybe I'll try the Times next time, but I suspect the readership will be
slightly less rabid, so less easily provoked.

Christian.

Damn, I thought Express readers were bad but I didn't know they were
that bad! Sorry to hear it.
Express readers are normally sophisticated Daily Star readers.

Damn, I thought Express readers were bad but I didn't know they were
that bad! Sorry to hear it.

I was quite amused by it. I was very annoyed that the gutless coward didn't
leave a return address, though, as I would dearly have liked to lecture him
further.

Christian.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Owain wrote:
| There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even
| the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.

They printed my letter the other week.

The real test would be if they printed a letter from IMM.

Come on now, he can sometimes string three or more together....

just not always in the right order

--
geoff

In article ,
raden wrote:
| There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even
| the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.

They printed my letter the other week.

The real test would be if they printed a letter from IMM.

Come on now, he can sometimes string three or more together....

just not always in the right order

;-) Just what was needed while Clarry weeps her heart out...

--
*I'm really easy to get along with once people learn to worship me

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Owain wrote:
| There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even
| the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.

They printed my letter the other week.

The real test would be if they printed a letter from IMM.

Come on now, he can sometimes string three or more together....

just not always in the right order

Why would anyone half sane write a letter to the Times?

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
t...
| It seems that you either have to cover a topical point in an
| interesting way or send them a dotty vicar story.

Or write something slightly topical, slightly humorous,
non-controversial,
and very short, that they can use as filler.

Yes. I got a couple of letters published
in the Sunday Express. I was
mentioning how asylum seekers and
economic migrants, on average, benefit the
country.

So we are told. I know a CORGI heating engineer who had a contract with a
Housing Association in London installing and maintaining heating systems.
Flats were gutted and renovated at great expense and given to "asylum
seekers". About half were trashed in well under a year. It usually coasted
about 15K to bring them up to standard again. The worst, according to him,
were Somali's. All paid for by "our" taxes. I can think of better ways of
spending our taxes.

Any benefit these migrants do for us must be weighed by other factors. If we
are short of labour we could always have contacts for limited periods
instead of allowing permanent residency.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip
Why would anyone half sane write a letter to the Times?


Because they want to appear fully sane?.... !

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:31:45 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Owain wrote:
| There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even
| the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.

They printed my letter the other week.

The real test would be if they printed a letter from IMM.

Come on now, he can sometimes string three or more together....

just not always in the right order

Why would anyone half sane write a letter to the Times?


You should try. They have people to help.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article , Andy Hall
writes
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:20:13 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



Continually reading Mein Kampf is not a god thing,

That would be the Bible.

try The Guardian, the
Daily Mirror, The Observer and the Independent. They will set your right.


They may be useful for wrapping chips, but that's about it.

There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even the Times
has taken to running sensationalist crap.


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
The EU banned the wrapping of chips in newspaper a while ago - not that
it matters because they have pinched all the cod anyway.
--
Andrew

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:31:45 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Owain wrote:
| There aren't any quality newspapers left any longer. Even
| the Times has taken to running sensationalist crap.

They printed my letter the other week.

The real test would be if they printed a letter from IMM.

Come on now, he can sometimes string three or more together....

just not always in the right order

Why would anyone half sane write a letter to the Times?


You should try. They have people to help.

I had a letter published in the Torygraph once, and no one phoned me and
they printed it as it was.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

You are right - I fail to make any sense of your nonsense....


You lack understanding. FULL STOP.

Yup could not agree more

Good.

snip drivel

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:46:02 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



I had a letter published in the Torygraph once, and no one phoned me and
they printed it as it was.

I guess that you must have felt the same way that James Keir Hardie
did on first entering parliament.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
IMM wrote:
I had a letter published in the Torygraph once, and no one phoned me and
they printed it as it was.

People who read the Telegraph don't believe in new fangled inventions like
the telephone.

--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:46:02 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



I had a letter published in the Torygraph once, and no one phoned me and
they printed it as it was.

I guess that you must have felt the same way that James Keir Hardie
did on first entering parliament.

No.

On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 22:46:02 +0100, "IMM" strung
together this:

no one phoned me

Now there's a surprise.

and they printed it as it was.

They'd probably heard how pointless it was trying to get you to
acknowledge the obvious flaws in your letter.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

"IMM" wrote in message ...

Thanks IMM for an updated explanation and breakdown. Brilliant as usual.

An explanation for you....

Firstly, a combi is a "combination" of the heating and water system in one
case, eliminating external tanks and cylinders, and generally supply hot
water at high main pressure. To confuse a little, some can run at very low
pressures and even off tanks. Generally most are fed from the mains. It is
generally a matter of mounting the boiler and connect up the pipes. The
expert designers have done the hard work for you and put all in one case.

There are three types of combi:

1) The Infinitely Continuous Combi -

Heats cold mains water instantly as it runs through the combi. It never runs
out of hot water. This is the most common type of combi, generally having
lower flowrates than Nos 2 & 3 below. The largest flow rate instant combi is
a two bathroom model, 22 litres/min ECO-Hometec. Being a condenser it is
very economical too. http://www.eco-hometec.co.uk

2) Unvented Cylinder Combi -

An unvented cylinder is a similar to a conventional cylinder but run off the
high-pressure cold mains. A combi with an integral unvented cylinder has
approx 60 litre cylinder heated to approx 80C, with a quick recovery coil
that takes all the boilers output. A fast acting cylinder thermostat ensures
the boiler pumps heat into the cylinder ASAP with a recovery rate from cold
around 5-8 mins (Ariston claim 8 mins). The 80C water is blended down to
about 45-50C. e.g's, Ariston Genus 27 Plus, Glow Worm, Powermax, Alpha
CB50.

3) Invinately Continuous/Unvented cylinder combi -

The Alpha CB50 is a combination of both having atwo stage flowrate, of high
flowrate when using the stored water with an automatic flow regulator
switching in to reduce flow to an invinately continuous flowrate of approx
11 litres/min.
http://www.alpha-boilers.com/products/CB50.html

4) Heat Bank Combi -

Incoming water is instantly heated running through a plate heat exchanger
(as is most instantaneous combi's) that takes its heat from a "domestic hot
water only" store of water at approx 80C (instantaneous combi's take the
heat from a heat-exchanger heater via the burner). A fast acting thermostat
ensures the boiler pumps all of its heat into the store ASAP with a recovery
rate about 5-8 mins from cold. The 80C water is blended down to about
45-50C. They are generally two stage flow rates, in that when the thermal
store is exhausted it reverts to what the bunrer can produce, which isapprox
11-12 litre/minute. e.g. Vokera & Worcester floor standing models (standard
washing machine sizes).

N.B. The heat bank is a variation of a thermal store, but is "not" a thermal
store in the conventional sense in that a coil carrying cold mains water
runs though a store of hot water kept at about 80C. Heat-banks are far more
efficient and give higher flowrates than conventional coiled thermal stores.
The stainless steel plate heat-exchangers do not scale up so easily.

5) Combined Primary Storage Unit
(Not classed as a combi, but a derivative of a combi, but still a one box
solution, so still in the same family)

These are a combination of a large thermal store, or heat bank, and boiler
in one casing. The units are large (larger than standard washing machine
size) and floor mounted. The heating is taken off the thermal store, which
in many cases the DHW taken off the store using a plate heat-exchanger
(heat-bank). Unlike the Heat-bank in 3) above the thermal store supplies
heating "and" DHW, giving the "combined" to the title. They are available
from 1 to 2.5 bathroom models. Gledhill do an excellent condensing
version, the Gulfsream 2000. http://www.gledhill.net

Nos. 2) 3) 4) & 5) have high flowrates. No. 1 "generally" has low flowrates
but there are always exceptions and some can be high - e.g. the ECO-Hometec
infinitely continuous combi, actually has a very high flowrate.

Nos 2), 3) 4) & 5) use stored water, but in different ways. Unlike No. 1
"some" versions will eventually run cold, but that takes quite a time, hence
some are referred to as "two bathroom" models, having the ability to fill
two baths with very fast recovery rates. As hot water is being drawn off
the high rating burner is also reheating. Very rare do these combi's run
out of hot water in average use. When taking one shower the burner may be
re-heating faster than what can be drawn-off. No. 3) above uses stored
water but will not run out of hot water (high and low flowrates). Most
versions of N. 4) above are two stage flowrate models (high and low
flowrates) and will also not run out of hot water.

There are combi models that give hot water and heating simultaneously as
Combined Primary Storage Units do. Most don't as they are hot water
priority.

"timegoesby" wrote in message
m...
"IMM" wrote in message
...

Thanks IMM for an updated explanation and breakdown. Brilliant as usual.

Pleasure.

An explanation for you....

Firstly, a combi is a "combination" of the heating and water system in
one
case, eliminating external tanks and cylinders, and generally supply hot
water at high main pressure. To confuse a little, some can run at very
low
pressures and even off tanks. Generally most are fed from the mains. It
is
generally a matter of mounting the boiler and connect up the pipes. The
expert designers have done the hard work for you and put all in one
case.

There are three types of combi:

1) The Infinitely Continuous Combi -

Heats cold mains water instantly as it runs through the combi. It never
runs
out of hot water. This is the most common type of combi, generally
having
lower flowrates than Nos 2 & 3 below. The largest flow rate instant
combi is
a two bathroom model, 22 litres/min ECO-Hometec. Being a condenser it is
very economical too. http://www.eco-hometec.co.uk

2) Unvented Cylinder Combi -

An unvented cylinder is a similar to a conventional cylinder but run off
the
high-pressure cold mains. A combi with an integral unvented cylinder has
approx 60 litre cylinder heated to approx 80C, with a quick recovery
coil
that takes all the boilers output. A fast acting cylinder thermostat
ensures
the boiler pumps heat into the cylinder ASAP with a recovery rate from
cold
around 5-8 mins (Ariston claim 8 mins). The 80C water is blended down
to
about 45-50C. e.g's, Ariston Genus 27 Plus, Glow Worm, Powermax, Alpha
CB50.

3) Invinately Continuous/Unvented cylinder combi -

The Alpha CB50 is a combination of both having atwo stage flowrate, of
high
flowrate when using the stored water with an automatic flow regulator
switching in to reduce flow to an invinately continuous flowrate of
approx
11 litres/min.
http://www.alpha-boilers.com/products/CB50.html

4) Heat Bank Combi -

Incoming water is instantly heated running through a plate heat
exchanger
(as is most instantaneous combi's) that takes its heat from a "domestic
hot
water only" store of water at approx 80C (instantaneous combi's take the
heat from a heat-exchanger heater via the burner). A fast acting
thermostat
ensures the boiler pumps all of its heat into the store ASAP with a
recovery
rate about 5-8 mins from cold. The 80C water is blended down to about
45-50C. They are generally two stage flow rates, in that when the
thermal
store is exhausted it reverts to what the bunrer can produce, which
isapprox
11-12 litre/minute. e.g. Vokera & Worcester floor standing models
(standard
washing machine sizes).

N.B. The heat bank is a variation of a thermal store, but is "not" a
thermal
store in the conventional sense in that a coil carrying cold mains water
runs though a store of hot water kept at about 80C. Heat-banks are far
more
efficient and give higher flowrates than conventional coiled thermal
stores.
The stainless steel plate heat-exchangers do not scale up so easily.

5) Combined Primary Storage Unit
(Not classed as a combi, but a derivative of a combi, but still a one
box
solution, so still in the same family)

These are a combination of a large thermal store, or heat bank, and
boiler
in one casing. The units are large (larger than standard washing machine
size) and floor mounted. The heating is taken off the thermal store,
which
in many cases the DHW taken off the store using a plate heat-exchanger
(heat-bank). Unlike the Heat-bank in 3) above the thermal store
supplies
heating "and" DHW, giving the "combined" to the title. They are
available
from 1 to 2.5 bathroom models. Gledhill do an excellent condensing
version, the Gulfsream 2000. http://www.gledhill.net

Nos. 2) 3) 4) & 5) have high flowrates. No. 1 "generally" has low
flowrates
but there are always exceptions and some can be high - e.g. the
ECO-Hometec
infinitely continuous combi, actually has a very high flowrate.

Nos 2), 3) 4) & 5) use stored water, but in different ways. Unlike No.
1
"some" versions will eventually run cold, but that takes quite a time,
hence
some are referred to as "two bathroom" models, having the ability to
fill
two baths with very fast recovery rates. As hot water is being drawn
off
the high rating burner is also reheating. Very rare do these combi's
run
out of hot water in average use. When taking one shower the burner may
be
re-heating faster than what can be drawn-off. No. 3) above uses stored
water but will not run out of hot water (high and low flowrates). Most
versions of N. 4) above are two stage flowrate models (high and low
flowrates) and will also not run out of hot water.

There are combi models that give hot water and heating simultaneously as
Combined Primary Storage Units do. Most don't as they are hot water
priority.

I got a couple of these cylinder connectors today from Screwfix but
they don't contain washers ....Should they or do they not need them or
can I just use something else ......

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/...&cd=1&x=7&y=12
Stuart