Hi,

This is a bit of an electrical design question. I'm rewiring my house,
and want to provide a decent amount of sockets for appliances in the
living room, for now and for the foreseeable future. This room is
about 12 metres square, i.e. not that big. It's also roughly square in
shape.

Currently there are 2x 2 gang sockets, which is woefully inadequate.
My current standard appliance list (which I think your average house
has or will have) is this:

tv
vcr
dvd player
sky
games machine
4x for stereo
2x lamps

Which sums to 11 sockets. Sticking 6 2x gang sockets on the walls
seems excessive, but maybe thats me being outmoded in the ring
circuits I frequent?

But seriously, what is the solution?

Thanks in advance,


Jeff.

(Jeff Sheard) wrote in news:69ac012c.0502161417.cc60170
@posting.google.com:


Which sums to 11 sockets. Sticking 6 2x gang sockets on the walls
seems excessive, but maybe thats me being outmoded in the ring
circuits I frequent?

But seriously, what is the solution?

Going from all the frustration sockets give me, I would say a minimum of 8
doubles, two in each corner on adjacent walls.

May need a bit of Xmas treeing,but at least there'll be one shortish
unobstructed run to wherever you need to go - unless someone knows better
;-)

(you're welcome to do a field trial by installing in my hovel)

mike

"Jeff Sheard" wrote in message
m...
Hi,

This is a bit of an electrical design question. I'm rewiring my house,
and want to provide a decent amount of sockets for appliances in the
living room, for now and for the foreseeable future. This room is
about 12 metres square, i.e. not that big. It's also roughly square in
shape.

Currently there are 2x 2 gang sockets, which is woefully inadequate.
My current standard appliance list (which I think your average house
has or will have) is this:

tv
vcr
dvd player
sky
games machine
4x for stereo
2x lamps

Which sums to 11 sockets. Sticking 6 2x gang sockets on the walls
seems excessive, but maybe thats me being outmoded in the ring
circuits I frequent?

But seriously, what is the solution?

I put two twin socket outlets in each corner and still find I need
splitters.

Colin Bignell

In article , nightjar
writes

I put two twin socket outlets in each corner and still find I need
splitters.

Wire two low-current devices into one plug - for example, Freeview box
and video recorder. It helps if they have detachable mains cords.

I think this is quite safe if done neatly and the fuse in the plug is
the correct rating (for example, a Freeview box and video will each have
a 3A fuse. You'll still only need a 3A fuse with both wired into one
plug as each only takes a very low current.)

Also safer than plug-in adapters and those nasty 4-way socket strips you
see for 99p in DIY stores and pound shops.

--
..sigmonster on vacation

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
In article , nightjar
writes

I put two twin socket outlets in each corner and still find I need
splitters.

Wire two low-current devices into one plug

I prefer not to. It reduces flexibility.

....
Also safer than plug-in adapters and those nasty 4-way socket strips you
see for 99p in DIY stores and pound shops.

The splitter strips I buy cost considerably more than that.

Colin Bignell

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 06:57:31 +0000, Mike Tomlinson
strung together this:

Wire two low-current devices into one plug -

Don't do this, it's rough and wrong.

Also safer than plug-in adapters

Anything is, don't anyone use those.

and those nasty 4-way socket strips you
see for 99p in DIY stores and pound shops.

Buy some decent ones then.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

In article ,
nightjar wrote:
I put two twin socket outlets in each corner and still find I need
splitters.

Yup. I've got 11 doubles in a through lounge and none are in regular use.
Table lamps are on dedicated 2 amp outlets fed from dimmers, and the
Hi-Fi/TV on a dedicated radial circuit with its own earth.
But I'm ok for hoovering 'plugs' :-)

--
*A fool and his money can throw one hell of a party.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Jeff Sheard wrote:

tv
vcr
dvd player
sky
games machine
4x for stereo
2x lamps

Which sums to 11 sockets. Sticking 6 2x gang sockets on the walls
seems excessive, but maybe thats me being outmoded in the ring
circuits I frequent?

But seriously, what is the solution?

10 to 12 doubles sounds about right.... (two in each corner, plus
additional one half way along each wall)

(I just put 8 in each of the two bedrooms I just built!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 16 Feb 2005, John Rumm wrote

Jeff Sheard wrote:

tv
vcr
dvd player
sky
games machine
4x for stereo
2x lamps

Which sums to 11 sockets. Sticking 6 2x gang sockets on the walls
seems excessive, but maybe thats me being outmoded in the ring
circuits I frequent?

But seriously, what is the solution?

10 to 12 doubles sounds about right.... (two in each corner, plus
additional one half way along each wall)

In system terms, what are the practical advantages to having each
appliance plugged into a separate socket (as opposed to putting, say,
the 4 stereo plugs into a trailing socket)?

I'm more interested in the safety/functionality trade-off than in
"theoretical flows as measured by an oscilloscope", as cable control
is, I think, a lot easier with 41 than 44.

--
Cheers,
Harvey

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:

On 16 Feb 2005, John Rumm wrote


Jeff Sheard wrote:


tv
vcr
dvd player
sky
games machine
4x for stereo
2x lamps

Which sums to 11 sockets. Sticking 6 2x gang sockets on the walls
seems excessive, but maybe thats me being outmoded in the ring
circuits I frequent?

But seriously, what is the solution?

10 to 12 doubles sounds about right.... (two in each corner, plus
additional one half way along each wall)


In system terms, what are the practical advantages to having each
appliance plugged into a separate socket (as opposed to putting, say,
the 4 stereo plugs into a trailing socket)?

None whatsoever. I used toi buodl computer racks - we used banks of rack
munted IEC and 13A sockets, and one flying lead from them to a socket
in the floor.

Provided the total rack draw was under 13A, its all fine.


I'm more interested in the safety/functionality trade-off than in
"theoretical flows as measured by an oscilloscope", as cable control
is, I think, a lot easier with 41 than 44.

Are you bothering with Part P ?

I guess you can't answer that ;-(

Nick

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:


In system terms, what are the practical advantages to having each
appliance plugged into a separate socket (as opposed to putting, say,
the 4 stereo plugs into a trailing socket)?

If you're clueful enough to wonder, there's no advantage ;-)

That is: Nanny would like you to know that daisychaining one 4-way
adaptor into another into another into another is bad for you (each link
adds some contact resistance, since many cheap 4-ways form their
contacts with little more than bendy tinplate), and some numpty
somewhere will plug a 3kW fanheater into the last one of such a chain.

So Nanny knows that in the limit, it's better to festoon the wall with
lots of double sockets (at Regulation not-too-close-to-the-floor height,
natch, thereby increasing the trip hazard...)

But if you avoid doing anything silly, consolidating multiple low-load
appliances into a single feed through a 4-way, 6-way, or whatever is
perfectly sound, can look better, and makes it more convenient to turn
off multiple appliances which would otherwise draw 'standby' or
wall-wart-loss currents uselessly.

Harvey Van Sickle wrote:

In system terms, what are the practical advantages to having each
appliance plugged into a separate socket (as opposed to putting, say,
the 4 stereo plugs into a trailing socket)?

None in particular from an electrical point of view (not for low power
devices anyway).

In fact there may be occations with todays highly interconnected AV
setups in living rooms, where commoning a number of devices back to the
same power point can help keep hum under control.

I'm more interested in the safety/functionality trade-off than in
"theoretical flows as measured by an oscilloscope", as cable control
is, I think, a lot easier with 41 than 44.

The advantage of lots of sockets verses "just about enough" is more ease
of cable routing, reducing trip hazards, and having somewhere to plug
the vacuum cleaner in etc.

You can take it to extreams however... a couple of doubles in each
corner does not look the excessive, however enough to satisfy the
socket requirements for a big AV or HiFi setup will start to look silly
because you typically want them all bunched together.

Personally I use multiway sockets fixed to (for example) the HiFi rack
so that only one power lead comes off it even though it uses eight.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Jeff Sheard wrote:

Hi,

This is a bit of an electrical design question. I'm rewiring my house,
and want to provide a decent amount of sockets for appliances in the
living room, for now and for the foreseeable future. This room is
about 12 metres square, i.e. not that big. It's also roughly square in
shape.

Currently there are 2x 2 gang sockets, which is woefully inadequate.
My current standard appliance list (which I think your average house
has or will have) is this:

tv
vcr
dvd player
sky
games machine
4x for stereo
2x lamps

Which sums to 11 sockets. Sticking 6 2x gang sockets on the walls
seems excessive, but maybe thats me being outmoded in the ring
circuits I frequent?

But seriously, what is the solution?

The solution is to do what everyine else does and get a mini
distribution board for all the electronics, and plug it in to one 13A
socket.


Thanks in advance,


Jeff.

Jeff Sheard wrote:
Which sums to 11 sockets. Sticking 6 2x gang sockets on the walls
seems excessive, but maybe thats me being outmoded in the ring
circuits I frequent?

The IEE On-Site Guide Table 8B recommends 6 to 10 double sockets in a
lounge and 3 in a Dining room

CRB

crb wrote:

The IEE On-Site Guide Table 8B recommends 6 to 10 double sockets in a
lounge and 3 in a Dining room

It also says 6 - 10 for a kitchen
4 - 6 for bedroom (more if intended for a "young person"
4 for a bed sit
2 for a hall
1 for stairs/landing
1 for loft
6 for study / home office
2 for garrage
2 for utility room


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

crb wrote:

The IEE On-Site Guide Table 8B recommends 6 to 10 double sockets in
a
lounge and 3 in a Dining room

It also says 6 - 10 for a kitchen
4 - 6 for bedroom (more if intended for a "young person"
4 for a bed sit
2 for a hall
1 for stairs/landing
1 for loft
6 for study / home office
2 for garrage
2 for utility room


Time to ask The Question.

If there were plugs and sockets that took up half or a third the space
of today's, and were fully compatible with 13A plugs/skts, meaning you
could plug either kind of plug into any and all sockets, and they were
to all the usual BS etc, would you choose to use them? Why?


NT

wrote:

If there were plugs and sockets that took up half or a third the space
of today's, and were fully compatible with 13A plugs/skts, meaning you
could plug either kind of plug into any and all sockets, and they were
to all the usual BS etc, would you choose to use them? Why?

Probably not, firstly because I don't find the current ones that
objectionable, secondly, you can see any attempt at size reduction will
be thwarted by the first wall wart to come along.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
wrote:

If there were plugs and sockets that took up half or a third the
space
of today's, and were fully compatible with 13A plugs/skts, meaning
you
could plug either kind of plug into any and all sockets, and they
were
to all the usual BS etc, would you choose to use them? Why?

Probably not, firstly because I don't find the current ones that
objectionable,

fairy nuff.


secondly, you can see any attempt at size reduction will
be thwarted by the first wall wart to come along.

I dont understand that. Wall warts would have no effect on the use of
smaller plugs as well as the present standard.

The way I see the size question is we dont to see want a long row of
sockets on teh wall, but we do want more sockets to use nowadays.
Fitting 6 sockets in the space of 1 double would solve that, and since
both systems would be fully compatible, it would not affect the use of
present plugs in those sockets, they would be usde as now at the same
density as now. And the new plugs would fit the present old sockets
too, so there would be no compatibility problem.


NT

John Rumm wrote:

wrote:

If there were plugs and sockets that took up half or a third the space
of today's, and were fully compatible with 13A plugs/skts, meaning you
could plug either kind of plug into any and all sockets, and they were
to all the usual BS etc, would you choose to use them? Why?


Probably not, firstly because I don't find the current ones that
objectionable, secondly, you can see any attempt at size reduction will
be thwarted by the first wall wart to come along.

O actually have a 6 way dis board that uses tiny plugs on my hif fi
separets rig.

Of course they don't have warts.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Time to ask The Question.

If there were plugs and sockets that took up half or a third the space
of today's, and were fully compatible with 13A plugs/skts, meaning you
could plug either kind of plug into any and all sockets, and they were
to all the usual BS etc, would you choose to use them? Why?


Why not just use the superior continental plug/sockets ?
Not sure how they stand under part P but they cannot actually be banned here
as they are the approved IEC socket, not our oversized Swedish-reject
monstrosity.

Mike wrote:


Why not just use the superior continental plug/sockets ?
Not sure how they stand under part P but they cannot actually be banned here
as they are the approved IEC socket, not our oversized Swedish-reject
monstrosity.

UK domestic (and light-commercial) wiring practice relies heavily on
fuses in each plug to protect the flex: where Yurrip and the You Ess go
for a larger number of radials with 16A or 20A breakers, the large
majority of our premisesesis wired with 30A/32A rings. So we cannae swap
to unfused plugtops without a massive program of rewiring, or weird
ideas like fuses in each socket - which again would be Different from
Continental practice.

'Snot as if the Continentals are all uniformly standardised, either...

Mike wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com.

Time to ask The Question.

If there were plugs and sockets that took up half or a third the
space
of today's, and were fully compatible with 13A plugs/skts, meaning
you
could plug either kind of plug into any and all sockets, and they
were
to all the usual BS etc, would you choose to use them? Why?


Why not just use the superior continental plug/sockets ?
Not sure how they stand under part P but they cannot actually be
banned here
as they are the approved IEC socket, not our oversized Swedish-reject
monstrosity.


Many reasons make this a no-goer.

1. the plugs dont plug into existing sockets, thus consumers would not
want new goods with these plugs, thus mfrs would not use them

2. the plugs have no fuses, making them doubly incompatible with
present system

3. the plugs do not meet our safety standards in several respects, so
getting approval would ilkely not be possible.

4. for anyone to use them it would require wiring in a house full of
new style sockets, and who would bother.


NT

Thanks for all the advice.

I've got a good idea now about what's sensible and what isn't. 6 or 7
doubles will suit the size of the room. It doesn't sound as excessive
now as it did when I was looking at the current installation of only 5
single sockets in total!


Jeff.

wrote:
Thanks for all the advice.

I've got a good idea now about what's sensible and what isn't. 6 or 7
doubles will suit the size of the room. It doesn't sound as excessive
now as it did when I was looking at the current installation of only 5
single sockets in total!


Jeff.

Single sockets are one of my personal hates. Why would you ever put in a
single socket, with the exception of areas that cant accommodate a
double obviously?

Single sockets are one of my personal hates. Why would you ever put in a
single socket, with the exception of areas that cant accommodate a
double obviously?

1. They look better in hallways for the vacuum cleaner.
2. They are useful for single use spurs, such as fridges/dishwashers/washing
machines, where you don't want the hassle of using an FCU.

Christian.

"Jeff Sheard" wrote
| This is a bit of an electrical design question. I'm rewiring
| my house, and want to provide a decent amount of sockets
| for appliances in the living room, for now and for the
| foreseeable future. This room is about 12 metres square,
| i.e. not that big. It's also roughly square in shape. ...
| 2x lamps

You might want to put 5A round-pin sockets in for the lamps, wired to the
wall switches on the lighting circuit. Means you don't have to walk round
the room in the dark switching the table lamps on/off.

I'd work on roughly a (double) socket 2-3' each side of a corner and then
fill in the gaps so no more than about 6' without a socket. Although some
people find them visually intrusive, it can be handy to have some sockets
high enough that they are not hidden behind sideboards etc, for portable
appliances.

Owain

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:10:16 UTC, "Owain"
wrote:

"Jeff Sheard" wrote
| This is a bit of an electrical design question. I'm rewiring
| my house, and want to provide a decent amount of sockets
| for appliances in the living room, for now and for the
| foreseeable future. This room is about 12 metres square,
| i.e. not that big. It's also roughly square in shape. ...
| 2x lamps

You might want to put 5A round-pin sockets in for the lamps, wired to the
wall switches on the lighting circuit. Means you don't have to walk round
the room in the dark switching the table lamps on/off.

Just bought a halogen reading lamp. Guess what - it has a wall wart!
Glad I didn't put in 5A sockets...

Our living room has 11 double socket outlets, and is on its own ring...

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!