Having had to call the board out recently - flickering supply and
overheating main fuse - I was impressed by how efficiently
everything was repaired. I know I wouldn't have fancied the hot
working.

What I hadn't been aware of was that we were on PME, and now the
new fuse has a label to that effect. As it happens, the recent
work I did included upgrading the earth bonding, and was easily
sufficient for PME, but should the type of earth have been
apparent to me?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote
| Having had to call the board out recently - flickering
| supply and overheating main fuse - I was impressed by
| how efficiently everything was repaired. I know I
| wouldn't have fancied the hot working.
| What I hadn't been aware of was that we were on PME,
| and now the new fuse has a label to that effect. As
| it happens, the recent work I did included upgrading
| the earth bonding, and was easily sufficient for PME,
| but should the type of earth have been apparent to me?

It's possible that you weren't on PME before, and when replacing the main
fuse assembly they took the opportunity to 'upgrade' you.

You should have known what your earthing was before, because it affects
cable calculations and protection methods, and is a fundamental part of
completing a test and isnpection certificate.

Owain

Owain wrote:

"Chris J Dixon" wrote
| Having had to call the board out recently - flickering
| supply and overheating main fuse - I was impressed by
| how efficiently everything was repaired. I know I
| wouldn't have fancied the hot working.
| What I hadn't been aware of was that we were on PME,
| and now the new fuse has a label to that effect. As
| it happens, the recent work I did included upgrading
| the earth bonding, and was easily sufficient for PME,
| but should the type of earth have been apparent to me?

It's possible that you weren't on PME before, and when replacing the main
fuse assembly they took the opportunity to 'upgrade' you.

You should have known what your earthing was before, because it affects
cable calculations and protection methods, and is a fundamental part of
completing a test and isnpection certificate.

No, the cable was not changed, and had only live & neutral. What
I meant was, ought the type of earthing to have been apparent to
anybody working on the system, in the absence of any labeling.

I understand that it is necessary to know, for the reasons you
state, but there was no visible indication or other
documentation.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

understand that it is necessary to know, for the reasons you
state, but there was no visible indication or other
documentation.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


I am on PME earthing and on the right hand side of the incomer fuse is an
earthing block with the earth cable going to my consumer unit. This is in a
Seeboard area, maybe yours is different in Notts.

Trevor Smith

What I hadn't been aware of was that we were on PME, and now the
new fuse has a label to that effect. As it happens, the recent
work I did included upgrading the earth bonding, and was easily
sufficient for PME, but should the type of earth have been
apparent to me?

1. PME is apparent from the installation, label or not.

2. When doing earth bonding, ALWAYS bond to PME standard, in case of future
upgrade even for overhead supplies, which are often PME capable these days.

Christian.

I'm sure I should know - but what is PME ?

It is good policy to assume that, even what may be a standard acronym
to the author, is not known by the reader and should always be spelled
out once fully in a document.

Rob

wrote:
I'm sure I should know - but what is PME ?

It is good policy to assume that, even what may be a standard acronym
to the author, is not known by the reader and should always be spelled
out once fully in a document.


Maybe in an academic manuscript or something, but this here is the land
of Usenet where we have the benefit of FAQs, which exist for the purpose
of not having to explain everything every time (amongst other reasons)

Try http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical/....html#earthing

David

I'm sure I should know - but what is PME ?

It stands for Protective Multiple Earth and is an obsolete term for
describing what is now known as TN-C-S. These letters, which are based on
French indicate that:

T - earth is related to ground potential. (alternative being I- isolated)
N - earth is provided by the supplier
C - the supplier's installation combines the earth and neutral into a single
conductor.
S - the user's installation has the earth and neutral in separate
conductors.

The other commonly used systems a
TT - earth is provided by a local earth rod. (Should probably be called
TT-S, but isn't).

TN-S - earth is provided by the supplier using their own specific earthing
conductor, not sharing with neutral.

Other systems are possible, but are not usually legally permitted on fixed
installations.

It is good policy to assume that, even what may be a standard acronym
to the author, is not known by the reader and should always be spelled
out once fully in a document.

Unfortunately, in a technical discussion, it is not possible to avoid the
use of jargon and acronyms without disrupting the argument. Many online
resources are available for those wishing to get up to speed.

Christian.

Christian McArdle wrote:

It stands for Protective Multiple Earth and is an obsolete term for
describing what is now known as TN-C-S.

I wouldn't say it was obsolete. From the consumer's point of view, on a
public mains supply, "PME" and "TN-C-S" are synonymous. But if you
think about it more generally, nothing in "TN-C-S" /per se/ implies
multiple earthing. So the supply distributor builds a PME network in
order to give the consumers TN-C-S supplies, IYSWIM.

--
Andy

Christian McArdle wrote:
I'm sure I should know - but what is PME ?

It stands for Protective Multiple Earth and is an obsolete term for
describing what is now known as TN-C-S. These letters, which are based on
French indicate that:

T - earth is related to ground potential. (alternative being I- isolated)

Silly question - is this 'ground', as in the big ball of stuff we're all
sitting on?

Ian Stirling wrote:
Christian McArdle wrote:

I'm sure I should know - but what is PME ?

It stands for Protective Multiple Earth and is an obsolete term for
describing what is now known as TN-C-S. These letters, which are based on
French indicate that:

T - earth is related to ground potential. (alternative being I- isolated)


Silly question - is this 'ground', as in the big ball of stuff we're all
sitting on?
More or less. UK = Earth, USA = Ground, don't know what the frog-eaters
et. al. call it!! :-) It should be at zero potential in relation to all
live conductors, and is normally? bonded to neutral at the generator and
sub-stations.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
snip

Unfortunately, in a technical discussion, it is not possible to avoid the
use of jargon and acronyms without disrupting the argument. Many online
resources are available for those wishing to get up to speed.


I thought that's what foot-notes where for, quoting and citing such
resources etc. ?...

Andrew Chesters wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
Christian McArdle wrote:

I'm sure I should know - but what is PME ?

It stands for Protective Multiple Earth and is an obsolete term for
describing what is now known as TN-C-S. These letters, which are based on
French indicate that:

T - earth is related to ground potential. (alternative being I- isolated)


Silly question - is this 'ground', as in the big ball of stuff we're all
sitting on?
More or less. UK = Earth, USA = Ground, don't know what the frog-eaters
et. al. call it!! :-) It should be at zero potential in relation to all
live conductors, and is normally? bonded to neutral at the generator and
sub-stations.

Ok.
I thought this was the case, but was wondering if there was some strange
non-obvious definition.
....
Idly wonders what the resistance from the UK to USA is.

Silly question - is this 'ground', as in the big ball of stuff we're all
sitting on?

More or less. UK = Earth, USA = Ground, don't know what the frog-eaters
et. al. call it!! :-)

They call it "terre", hence the 'T'.

Christian.

Aye, but, every 'good' news group worth it's salt has a FAQ, and
whenever a reader, lurker or poster comes across something which he/she
doesn't understand, then he/she is supposed to read the FAQ first, and
only post a query if it's not in the FAQ. ;-)

BTW, FAQ = Frquently Asked Questions.

BTW, BTW = By the way.

"kmillar" wrote in message
oups.com...
Aye, but, every 'good' news group worth it's salt has a FAQ, and
whenever a reader, lurker or poster comes across something which he/she
doesn't understand, then he/she is supposed to read the FAQ first, and
only post a query if it's not in the FAQ. ;-)


Yes, assuming they know what the FAQ's URL is, otherwise perhaps they should
post a FAQ to ask were to find the FAQ's so that they don't need to ask a
FAQ ?....

Christian McArdle wrote:
Silly question - is this 'ground', as in the big ball of stuff we're all
sitting on?

More or less. UK = Earth, USA = Ground, don't know what the frog-eaters
et. al. call it!! :-)


They call it "terre", hence the 'T'.

Christian.


Blindingly obvious, or what? Will think first next time...

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:31:18 +0000, Ian Stirling wrote:

Andrew Chesters wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
Christian McArdle wrote:

I'm sure I should know - but what is PME ?

It stands for Protective Multiple Earth and is an obsolete term for
describing what is now known as TN-C-S. These letters, which are based on
French indicate that:

T - earth is related to ground potential. (alternative being I- isolated)


Silly question - is this 'ground', as in the big ball of stuff we're all
sitting on?
More or less. UK = Earth, USA = Ground, don't know what the frog-eaters
et. al. call it!! :-) It should be at zero potential in relation to all
live conductors, and is normally? bonded to neutral at the generator and
sub-stations.

Ok.
I thought this was the case, but was wondering if there was some strange
non-obvious definition.
...
Idly wonders what the resistance from the UK to USA is.

Apparently very much less than proportionate to the
resistance from your house to the substation. The distance is huge but so
is the cross-sectional area. AIUI the bulk of the resistance to ground is
near the earth rods where pathways for the current are bunched together.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"kmillar" wrote in message
oups.com...

Aye, but, every 'good' news group worth it's salt has a FAQ, and
whenever a reader, lurker or poster comes across something which he/she
doesn't understand, then he/she is supposed to read the FAQ first, and
only post a query if it's not in the FAQ. ;-)

Yes, assuming they know what the FAQ's URL is, otherwise perhaps they should
post a FAQ to ask were to find the FAQ's so that they don't need to ask a
FAQ ?....

No they should just do:
http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?sa...s_usubject=FAQ

Should...

David

In message , Ian
Stirling writes
Andrew Chesters wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote:
Christian McArdle wrote:

I'm sure I should know - but what is PME ?

It stands for Protective Multiple Earth and is an obsolete term for
describing what is now known as TN-C-S. These letters, which are based on
French indicate that:

T - earth is related to ground potential. (alternative being I- isolated)


Silly question - is this 'ground', as in the big ball of stuff we're all
sitting on?
More or less. UK = Earth, USA = Ground, don't know what the frog-eaters
et. al. call it!! :-) It should be at zero potential in relation to all
live conductors, and is normally? bonded to neutral at the generator and
sub-stations.

Ok.
I thought this was the case, but was wondering if there was some strange
non-obvious definition.
...
Idly wonders what the resistance from the UK to USA is.

Much less than the resistance between France and USA

--
geoff