I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside soil drain
stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has anyone an explanation
for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35 years ago.

Terry D.

"Terry D" wrote in message
news:jJmsc.37$Dc5.19@newsfe4-win...
I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside soil drain
stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has anyone an explanation
for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35 years ago.

Terry D.



The pipes running down the outside of the walls may not be soil pipes, they may
only be rain water pipes from the guttering on the roof. What diameter of pipes
are they ? Anything less than 110 mm in diameter and they are rain water
drainage.


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BigWallop wrote:
"Terry D" wrote in message
news:jJmsc.37$Dc5.19@newsfe4-win...
I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside
soil drain stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has
anyone an explanation
for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35
years ago.

Terry D.


The pipes running down the outside of the walls may not be soil
pipes, they may only be rain water pipes from the guttering on the
roof. What diameter of pipes are they ? Anything less than 110 mm
in diameter and they are rain water drainage.


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

The pipes certainly looked more than 110mm diameter. There were also
diagonal feeds into the vertical stack, presumably from en-suites,
cloakrooms etc. The rainwater guttering was separate, so I'm convinced that
these were soil drainage.

Terry D.

"Terry D" wrote in message
news:a9nsc.41$Dc5.32@newsfe4-win...
BigWallop wrote:
"Terry D" wrote in message
news:jJmsc.37$Dc5.19@newsfe4-win...
I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside
soil drain stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has
anyone an explanation
for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35
years ago.

Terry D.


The pipes running down the outside of the walls may not be soil
pipes, they may only be rain water pipes from the guttering on the
roof. What diameter of pipes are they ? Anything less than 110 mm
in diameter and they are rain water drainage.


---
http://www.basecuritysystems.no-ip.com

The pipes certainly looked more than 110mm diameter. There were also
diagonal feeds into the vertical stack, presumably from en-suites,
cloakrooms etc. The rainwater guttering was separate, so I'm convinced that
these were soil drainage.

Terry D.



The plastics that are used today are not really susceptible to frost damage or
weathering, so the pipework can be taken outside the property again, unlike the
cast pipes of yester' year. They are also more secure as people find it
difficult to climb up them without them pulling out the wall or folding up with
weight, so this to allows the new plastics to be designed for external use
again.

They do look horrible on some sites, but they can be painted to help them match
in with the surroundings. Saying that, some councils are going back to the old
style of black pipework everywhere to help new builds blend with the old.


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On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:26:27 +0100, "Terry D"
strung together this:

I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside soil drain
stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has anyone an explanation
for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35 years ago.

I think the main reason, going on the fact that they're on new houses, would be
cost. If it is a few quid cheaper then the larger housebuilders will do it that
way instead.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

In article jJmsc.37$Dc5.19@newsfe4-win, Terry D wrote:
I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside
soil drain stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has
anyone an explanation for this? I thought that inside soil drains
were adopted 30-35 years ago.

After the big freeze up of 1962-3 they changed the Regs. Back at that
time all stack pipes were CI so any water running down the inside wall
of the stack would turn to ice and freeze, so to stop this ever
happening again the regs were changed. More recently, as another
poster says, it was decided that with uPVC being universal there was
now no real problem with outside stacks if that's what builders wanted
to do.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

Tony Bryer wrote:
In article jJmsc.37$Dc5.19@newsfe4-win, Terry D wrote:
I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside
soil drain stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has
anyone an explanation for this? I thought that inside soil drains
were adopted 30-35 years ago.

After the big freeze up of 1962-3 they changed the Regs. Back at that
time all stack pipes were CI so any water running down the inside wall
of the stack would turn to ice and freeze, so to stop this ever
happening again the regs were changed. More recently, as another
poster says, it was decided that with uPVC being universal there was
now no real problem with outside stacks if that's what builders wanted
to do.

As I should have realised, it's just an easy way to save a few quid on the
build costs.

Several months ago, I visited a show house which had an exterior soil stack.
Strangly, when questioned, the sales representative, although very friendly,
had absolutely no idea as to the reason for this. I'm still looking for an
answer, apart from cost.

Terry D.

In article 5kqsc.79$Vp5.3@newsfe2-win, Terry D wrote:
As I should have realised, it's just an easy way to save a few quid on the
build costs.

Several months ago, I visited a show house which had an exterior soil stack.
Strangly, when questioned, the sales representative, although very friendly,
had absolutely no idea as to the reason for this. I'm still looking for an
answer, apart from cost.

It may just depend on the builder's preference. If it goes outside you've got
all those holes to make through the external walls followed by making good
afterwards but you can then defer putting in the drains until the houses are
almost finished. If you want internal soil stacks you need to do all the
drainage at the outset and it's not unknown for it to be disturbed by site
traffic (ready mix truck parked on manhole etc)

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article 5kqsc.79$Vp5.3@newsfe2-win, Terry D wrote:
As I should have realised, it's just an easy way to save a few quid on
the
build costs.

Several months ago, I visited a show house which had an exterior soil
stack.
Strangly, when questioned, the sales representative, although very
friendly,
had absolutely no idea as to the reason for this. I'm still looking for
an
answer, apart from cost.

It may just depend on the builder's preference. If it goes outside you've
got
all those holes to make through the external walls followed by making good
afterwards but you can then defer putting in the drains until the houses
are
almost finished. If you want internal soil stacks you need to do all the
drainage at the outset and it's not unknown for it to be disturbed by site
traffic (ready mix truck parked on manhole etc)

The old cast iron pipes would crack after a freeze. This is highly unlikely
to happen on a plastic stack. Water inside may freeze but it will not
fracture the pipe. Also it takes a real heavy freeze to block a drain.
Although a trickle leak down it will build up and block the drain.

Having the stack on the outside also acts like a large thermals bridge.
They can suck heat out of the house. Best having them inside using HepVo
traps and/or a Durgo valve to prevent penetrations through the roof.

On Mon, 24 May 2004 15:17:18 +0100, Tony Bryer wrote:

Back at that time all stack pipes were CI so any water running down
the inside wall of the stack would turn to ice and freeze, so to
stop this ever happening again the regs were changed. More recently,
as another poster says, it was decided that with uPVC being
universal there was now no real problem with outside stacks...

Right that confirms it. The Atlantic Conveyour will switch off in the
next 20 years, meaning that the UK will get the winters it should for
it's latitude...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:26:27 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
"Terry D" randomly hit the keyboard
and produced:

I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside soil drain
stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has anyone an explanation
for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35 years ago.

External: Pros- can be accessed easily; any leaks are immediately
evident. Cons - aesthetics.

Internal: Pros- unobtrusive. Cons- any leaks, or access for
rodding may require removal of the plasterboard; noise.
--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

Hugo Nebula wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:26:27 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
"Terry D" randomly hit the keyboard
and produced:

I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside soil drain
stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has anyone an explanation
for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35 years ago.

External: Pros- can be accessed easily; any leaks are immediately
evident. Cons - aesthetics.

Internal: Pros- unobtrusive.

I find the boxed in sections in the corners of rooms more obtrusive
than external pipes. They're a right pain to fit kitchen units around.

Cons- any leaks, or access for
rodding may require removal of the plasterboard;

And those nice new tiles you just fitted...

noise.

Especially when, as happened to us once, a black bird gets the loft
and hence into the boxing-in surrounding the stack!

MBQ

"Hugo Nebula" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 24 May 2004 13:26:27 +0100, a particular chimpanzee named
"Terry D" randomly hit the keyboard
and produced:

I've noticed that a lot of new houses have the old style outside soil
drain
stacks, usually in black. They look horrible. Has anyone an explanation
for this? I thought that inside soil drains were adopted 30-35 years
ago.

External:
Pros- can be accessed easily;
any leaks are immediately
evident.
Cons - aesthetics.

Also a freezing problem. Also could deteriorate in direct sunlight.

Internal:
Pros- unobtrusive.

Less prone to freezing. Less prone to UV light deterioration.
Can be further into the building, so toilets and bath not always on the
outside walls.
Does not act as a thermal bridge xtract heat from the hosue if AAV and/or
HepVo tarps are used. No penetrating roof when AAVs are used.

Cons- any leaks, or access for
rodding may require removal of
the plasterboard; noise.

Properly designed, rodding can be done without removing plasterboard cover.
Noise can be virtually eliminated by lagging the stack in sound absorbing
material.

--
Hugo Nebula
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
shows you just how far you've strayed from the pack".

In article om, Dave
Liquorice wrote:
Right that confirms it. The Atlantic Conveyour will switch off in the
next 20 years, meaning that the UK will get the winters it should for
it's latitude...

But that's still unlikely to cause to a problem with a uPVC stack IMO.
Imagine a 6m CI stack sealed at the bottom, temp -5C and tip in a basin
full of warm water. Effect of temperature within stack, almost nothing
(I would guess). Do the same on a PVC stack and the inner face of the
walls probably gets to above freezing so there never will be an ice
build up.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article om, Dave
Liquorice wrote:
Right that confirms it. The Atlantic Conveyour will switch off in the
next 20 years, meaning that the UK will get the winters it should for
it's latitude...

But that's still unlikely to cause to a problem with a uPVC stack IMO.
Imagine a 6m CI stack sealed at the bottom, temp -5C and tip in a basin
full of warm water. Effect of temperature within stack, almost nothing
(I would guess). Do the same on a PVC stack and the inner face of the
walls probably gets to above freezing so there never will be an ice
build up.

If it is -5C outside and the stack is laying here unused for 10 hours, all
the plastic walls will be around -5C

On Tue, 25 May 2004 11:47:29 +0100, Tony Bryer wrote:

Right that confirms it. The Atlantic Conveyour will switch off in
the next 20 years, meaning that the UK will get the winters it
should for it's latitude...

But that's still unlikely to cause to a problem with a uPVC stack
IMO. Imagine a 6m CI stack sealed at the bottom, temp -5C

If the Atlantic Conveyor does switch off -5C will be warm during the
winter think, Moscow, think -20C or lower...

... and tip in a basin full of warm water.

It's not so much large quantities warm used water as the dripping tap.
Back in the early 80's I had the waste from the bath and wash hand
basin freeze in Bristol. That was PVC waste to the stack not sure what
the stack was or where the blockage was but it took a week to clear...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Tue, 25 May 2004 13:55:59 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

If the Atlantic Conveyor does switch off -5C will be warm during the
winter think, Moscow, think -20C or lower...

Do you expect the sea around Britain to freeze ? If not, surely we would
still retain some vestage of a climate associated with being surrounded by
water, unlike Moscow. Latitude isn't everything.

--
Thesaurus: ancient reptile with a great vocabulary.

Mail john rather than nospam...

In article , Imm wrote:
If it is -5C outside and the stack is laying here unused for 10 hours,
all the plastic walls will be around -5C

Yes but because PVC has a very low thermal capacity and better insulation
than CI it will take a minimal amount of heat to raise the temperature of
the inside wall to above freezing.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

In article om, Dave
Liquorice wrote:
It's not so much large quantities warm used water as the dripping tap.

I've noted that both the Keston Celsius and Glowworm combis I've
installed recently have had syphons so that the condensate is released
periodically in decent amounts rather than a drip, drip, drip.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

On Tue, 25 May 2004 14:39:04 +0100, John Laird wrote:

If the Atlantic Conveyor does switch off -5C will be warm during
the winter think, Moscow, think -20C or lower...

Do you expect the sea around Britain to freeze ?

I'm not a climatologist but some of those that are and have
investigated what may happen do say that there will be sea ice for a
few (tens?) miles around southern Britain, let alone further north.

Agreed Moscow possibly a bad example due to it's continental climate.
How about coastal areas of Newfoundland or Labrador?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Tue, 25 May 2004 14:39:04 +0100, John Laird wrote:

If the Atlantic Conveyor does switch off -5C will be warm during
the winter think, Moscow, think -20C or lower...

Do you expect the sea around Britain to freeze ?

I'm not a climatologist but some of those that are and have
investigated what may happen do say that there will be sea ice for a
few (tens?) miles around southern Britain, let alone further north.

Agreed Moscow possibly a bad example due to it's continental climate.
How about coastal areas of Newfoundland or Labrador?

Which are warmed by the Gulf Stream. Try the Baltic. The pacific has its
own version of the Gulf Stream keeping the likes of Vancouver warmish.

On 25 May 2004 03:00:23 -0700, (MBQ) strung together
this:

Internal: Pros- unobtrusive.

I find the boxed in sections in the corners of rooms more obtrusive
than external pipes. They're a right pain to fit kitchen units around.

It depends how good the architect is, I've seen houses with internal stacks that
you wouldn't know were there from looking at the layout of the walls.
--

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd

On Tue, 25 May 2004 19:54:30 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2004 14:39:04 +0100, John Laird wrote:

If the Atlantic Conveyor does switch off -5C will be warm during
the winter think, Moscow, think -20C or lower...

Do you expect the sea around Britain to freeze ?

I'm not a climatologist but some of those that are and have
investigated what may happen do say that there will be sea ice for a
few (tens?) miles around southern Britain, let alone further north.

Agreed Moscow possibly a bad example due to it's continental climate.
How about coastal areas of Newfoundland or Labrador?

Yes, it's pretty chilly there. But presuming a roughly W-E weather
direction, they are still on the trailing edge of a continent.

The real answer is, of course, that nobody *knows*.

--
Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

Mail john rather than nospam...