Hi
I just bought a flat in London (hard water) and the combi boiler
(stelrad ideal sprint) is at least 15 years old judging by one of the
date stickers. The hot water flow rate is poor and the water never
gets really hot. The radiators get quite warm but never really hot
either - the thermostat reads about 35-40c after an hour or two in
use. The boiler sounds OK, not banging noises etc. There are no
exposed temperature controls on the boiler so I can't adjust anything.

Are there any easy ways to increase the temperature or is the boiler
just too old, probably furred up and in need of replacing?

If I replace it is it worth getting a condensing combi? It's a 1 bed
flat and the water's hard so it might not last long enough to pay for
itself.

Also, how can you tell if a water softener is working, apart from
taking apart the boiler to see if it's furring up?

Many thanks

Jules

On 25 Jan 2005 02:40:06 -0800, (Julian
Chance) wrote:

Hi
I just bought a flat in London (hard water) and the combi boiler
(stelrad ideal sprint) is at least 15 years old judging by one of the
date stickers. The hot water flow rate is poor and the water never
gets really hot. The radiators get quite warm but never really hot
either - the thermostat reads about 35-40c after an hour or two in
use. The boiler sounds OK, not banging noises etc. There are no
exposed temperature controls on the boiler so I can't adjust anything.

Are there any easy ways to increase the temperature or is the boiler
just too old, probably furred up and in need of replacing?

You could possibly get the heat exchanger descaled, however at that
age you may start incurring other costs of spares that make it
uneconomic. It's probably quite low spec anyway.


If I replace it is it worth getting a condensing combi? It's a 1 bed
flat and the water's hard so it might not last long enough to pay for
itself.

Certainly. Savings of 25-30% of gas use for heating are possible as
compared with a boiler of this age, although in money terms, that may
not equate to that many pounds.

You can resolve the scaling issue by putting in either a proper water
softener (ion exchange type using salt) or a phosphate dosing unit
such as a Combimate. The latter uses a very slowly dissolving
chemical which costs about £15 per year to replace, and prevents or
largely reduces scaling. It does not soften the water, so doesn't
save on detergent or shampoo like a softener will. A softener will
generally pay for its salt running cost in detergent and shampoo
savings.

THe so-called electronic and magentic water conditioners are
questionnable to put it kindly and for most people have little or no
effect.



Also, how can you tell if a water softener is working, apart from
taking apart the boiler to see if it's furring up?


You can test the water with a test kit or test tablets (costing about
£1-2)

If it's a salt based softener, you can tell because salt is used, and
if you wash your hands with soap, the effect of hard vs. soft water is
quite obvious.






Many thanks

Jules


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jan 2005 02:40:06 -0800, (Julian
Chance) wrote:

Hi
I just bought a flat in London (hard water) and the combi boiler
(stelrad ideal sprint) is at least 15 years old judging by one of the
date stickers. The hot water flow rate is poor and the water never
gets really hot. The radiators get quite warm but never really hot
either - the thermostat reads about 35-40c after an hour or two in
use. The boiler sounds OK, not banging noises etc. There are no
exposed temperature controls on the boiler so I can't adjust anything.

Are there any easy ways to increase the temperature or is the boiler
just too old, probably furred up and in need of replacing?

You could possibly get the heat exchanger descaled, however at that
age you may start incurring other costs of spares that make it
uneconomic. It's probably quite low spec anyway.


If I replace it is it worth getting a condensing combi? It's a 1 bed
flat and the water's hard so it might not last long enough to pay for
itself.

Certainly. Savings of 25-30% of gas use for heating are possible as
compared with a boiler of this age, although in money terms, that may
not equate to that many pounds.

You can resolve the scaling issue by putting in either a proper water
softener (ion exchange type using salt) or a phosphate dosing unit
such as a Combimate. The latter uses a very slowly dissolving
chemical which costs about £15 per year to replace, and prevents or
largely reduces scaling. It does not soften the water, so doesn't
save on detergent or shampoo like a softener will. A softener will
generally pay for its salt running cost in detergent and shampoo
savings.

THe so-called electronic and magentic water conditioners are
questionnable to put it kindly and for most people have little or no
effect.

The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sopmetime are not
effective. But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.
Some makers recommend them. This company: http://www.heatweb.com clearly
show one here http://www.heatweb.com/products/tanks/tanks.html the bottom
left piccie, the bottom left pipe under the blue knob.

A full salt softener is expensive and a waste of time. They also take up
space.

Also, how can you tell if a water
softener is working, apart from
taking apart the boiler to see if it's furring up?

You can test the water with a test kit or test tablets (costing about
£1-2)

If it's a salt based softener, you can tell because salt is used, and
if you wash your hands with soap, the effect of hard vs. soft water is
quite obvious.

IMM wrote:

paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sopmetime are not
effective. But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

For values of "sometimes" approaching 100%

A full salt softener is expensive and a waste of time.

Given that they are the only solution (other than moving to a new part
of the country) if you want properly softened water, what else would you
propose?

They also take up space.

and so do you....


--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

In message , IMM
writes

The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sopmetime are not
effective.


HE SAID WHAT ???????


--
geoff

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:35:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sopmetime are not
effective.

That's an understatement.


But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.


Some makers recommend them. This company: http://www.heatweb.com clearly
show one here http://www.heatweb.com/products/tanks/tanks.html the bottom
left piccie, the bottom left pipe under the blue knob.

In other respects their information is reasonable.



A full salt softener is expensive and a waste of time.

Don't be stupid. An ion exchange softener is ceertainly more
expensive than a phosphor dosing unit, but it softens the water and in
turn prevents scaling. None of the other options do both of these.

They also take up
space.

So do you, but democracy allows it.



Also, how can you tell if a water
softener is working, apart from
taking apart the boiler to see if it's furring up?

You can test the water with a test kit or test tablets (costing about
£1-2)

If it's a salt based softener, you can tell because salt is used, and
if you wash your hands with soap, the effect of hard vs. soft water is
quite obvious.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:54:45 GMT, raden wrote:

In message , IMM
writes

The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sopmetime are not
effective.


HE SAID WHAT ???????



I know. His next move will be to suggest that Teflon Tony may not be
infallible. It's the classic shifting of position.

It reminds me of talking to a university though. The politics are so
great because the stakes are so small.........



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:35:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes
with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sometimes are not
effective.

That's an understatement.

But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.

snip misinformation

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:51:23 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:35:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes
with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sometimes are not
effective.

That's an understatement.

But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.

snip misinformation


That's as may be. It doesn't mean that they are doing anything
worthwhile.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:35:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes
with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sometimes are not
effective.

That's an understatement.

But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.


There are 100,1000s of people like you around too, doesn't mean any of them
have the common sense they were born with !

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:35:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the
body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes
with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sometimes are not
effective.

That's an understatement.

But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.


There .....

More lunacy


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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 23:51:23 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:35:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the
body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes
with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sometimes are not
effective.

That's an understatement.

But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.

snip misinformation

That's as may be. It doesn't mean that they are doing anything
worthwhile.

Mine works and so do all the others.


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:::Jerry:::: wrote:
"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:35:54 -0000, "IMM"
wrote:



The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The
phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in
the body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all
holes
with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sometimes are
not
effective.

That's an understatement.

But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.


There are 100,1000s of people like you around too, doesn't mean any
of them
have the common sense they were born with !

Interesting comment on Child of Our Time" last night that IQ can go
down during childhood if you come from an impoverished background. So
(stretching things a little) one can literally "not have the common
sense one was born with"!

dIMM obviously doesn't have the common sense to realise what he's lost.
MBQ

wrote in message
ups.com...

dIMM obviously doesn't have the common sense

Maxie, the cheek of it!! This one is saying, Dim Lin the Oriental
enchantress doesn't have common sense. Some people are just full of
jealousy.



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IMM wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

dIMM obviously doesn't have the common sense

Maxie, the cheek of it!! This one is saying, Dim Lin the Oriental
enchantress doesn't have common sense. Some people are just full of
jealousy.

Obviously YOU haven't got the sense to realise I ws talking about YOU.

wrote in message
ups.com...

IMM wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

dIMM obviously doesn't have the common sense

Maxie, the cheek of it!! This one is saying, Dim Lin the Oriental
enchantress doesn't have common sense. Some people are just full of
jealousy.

Obviously YOU haven't got the sense to realise I ws talking about YOU.

Another confused person. Everyone knows about Dim Lin the luscious lovely.


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IMM wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

IMM wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

dIMM obviously doesn't have the common sense

Maxie, the cheek of it!! This one is saying, Dim Lin the
Oriental
enchantress doesn't have common sense. Some people are just full
of
jealousy.

Obviously YOU haven't got the sense to realise I ws talking about
YOU.

Another confused person. Everyone knows about Dim Lin the luscious
lovely.

snip drivel

And they all know about Dim dIMM the snivelling drip.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sopmetime are not
effective. But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

For values of "sometimes" approaching 100%

A full salt softener is expensive and a waste of time.

Given that they are the only solution (other than moving to a new part
of the country) if you want properly softened water, what else would you
propose?

They also take up space.

and so do you....

God observation 10/10. People take up space.


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"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
The magnetic and electronic descalers sopmetime are not
effective. But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much
higher.

For values of "sometimes" approaching 100%

But at least it's an improvement on his glowing praise of a some time ago.

I more than glowing piase for them. Mine works. Isn't that brill?


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IMM wrote:

A full salt softener is expensive and a waste of time.

Given that they are the only solution (other than moving to a new part
of the country) if you want properly softened water, what else would you
propose?

You forgot to answer that bit... or are you incapable?

and so do you....


God observation 10/10. People take up space.

One of the advantages of omnipresence and being all seeing... It is OK
though, I have no desire for you to worship me.

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

A full salt softener is expensive and a waste of time.

Given that they are the only solution (other than moving to a new part
of the country) if you want properly softened water, what else would you
propose?

You forgot

snip madness


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IMM wrote:

Given that they are the only solution (other than moving to a new part
of the country) if you want properly softened water, what else would you
propose?

You forgot


snip madness

Go on tell the truth... Just admit you don't actually have an answer,
and we may actually think better of you.

--
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John.

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"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip
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Did you get kicked off your last NNTP host ?

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Given that they are the only solution (other than moving to a new part
of the country) if you want properly softened water, what else would
you
propose?

You forgot

snip madness

Go on tell the truth... Just admit you don't actually have an answer,
and we may actually think better of you.

I don't respond to madness.



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In message , IMM
writes

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

Given that they are the only solution (other than moving to a new part
of the country) if you want properly softened water, what else would
you
propose?

You forgot

snip madness

Go on tell the truth... Just admit you don't actually have an answer,
and we may actually think better of you.

I don't respond to

The medication to control your

madness.



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--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sopmetime are not
effective. But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

For values of "sometimes" approaching 100%

A full salt softener is expensive and a waste of time.

Given that they are the only solution (other than moving to a new part
of the country) if you want properly softened water, what else would you
propose?

They also take up space.

and so do you....

God observation 10/10. People take up space.


Yes but the space you take up could be usefully occupied by something
useful ... and probably wouldn't contribute so much in the way of
greenhouse gasses

--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:35:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes
with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sometimes are not
effective.

That's an understatement.

But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.

100,1000s ?

A lot of people in East Asia had an unshakeable belief in various divine
entities - it didn't do them much good either

--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.

snip misinformation

That's as may be. It doesn't mean that they are doing anything
worthwhile.

Mine works and so do all the others.


All of them ?

ISTR you said "The magnetic and electronic descalers sometime are not
effective."

C'mon if you're going to be wrong, at least be consistent

--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

wrote in message
oups.com...

dIMM obviously doesn't have the common sense

Maxie, the cheek of it!! This one is saying, Dim Lin the Oriental
enchantress doesn't have common sense. Some people are just full of
jealousy.

Fuxake DIMM - get your attributions right

I'll give you a clue .. it wasn't me

--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

wrote in message
oups.com...

IMM wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

dIMM obviously doesn't have the common sense

Maxie, the cheek of it!! This one is saying, Dim Lin the Oriental
enchantress doesn't have common sense. Some people are just full of
jealousy.

Obviously YOU haven't got the sense to realise I ws talking about YOU.

Another confused person. Everyone knows about Dim Lin the luscious lovely.

No - it's just another figment of your deranged imagination - as usual

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:35:54 -0000, "IMM" wrote:



The 3-way valve may only be partially opening as well. The phosphor
decalers can have a habit of clogging to the venturi holes in the
body.
This requires removing the top (easy enough) and poking out all holes
with a
paper clip. The magnetic and electronic descalers sometimes are not
effective.

That's an understatement.

But fitted on an appliance imput teh success is much higher.

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.

100,1000s ?

A lot of people in East Asia had an unshakeable belief in various divine
entities - it didn't do them much good either

I know, it made you fat.


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"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

There is no evidence for that whatsoever.

There are countless 100,1000s of them in use.

snip misinformation

That's as may be. It doesn't mean that they are doing anything
worthwhile.

Mine works and so do all the others.


All of them ?

ISTR you said "The magnetic and electronic descalers sometime are not
effective."

C'mon if you're going to be wrong, at least be consistent

But mine is effective. brill I must say.


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"raden" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

wrote in message
oups.com...

IMM wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

dIMM obviously doesn't have the common sense

Maxie, the cheek of it!! This one is saying, Dim Lin the Oriental
enchantress doesn't have common sense. Some people are just full of
jealousy.

Obviously YOU haven't got the sense to realise I ws talking about YOU.

Another confused person. Everyone knows about Dim Lin the luscious
lovely.

No - it's just another figment of your deranged imagination - as usual

Maxie!! I know you protective of Dim Lin, but we all know she is your bird.
Do you sling here on your motor bike and go for a spin? I'll keep my eye
out for a fatty and an Oriental enchantress on a motor bike.


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In article , IMM

wrote:

More drivel

WILL YOU STOP MORPHING for Heaven's sake? This is the second time you have
escaped from my killfile.

--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk

"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote in message
. ..

This is the second time you have
escaped from my killfile.

Please put me back in ASAP!!!!!.















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In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
More drivel

WILL YOU STOP MORPHING for Heaven's sake? This is the second time you
have escaped from my killfile.

According to another thread, he's had is account pulled for posting 'snip
drivel' so many times. And rightly so.

--
*How come you never hear about gruntled employees? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
More drivel

WILL YOU STOP MORPHING for Heaven's sake? This is the second time you
have escaped from my killfile.

According to another thread, he's had is account pulled for posting 'snip
drivel' so many times. And rightly so.


There was a Scandinavian (Inge) guy over in a satellite group a couple of
years ago
who had so many accounts pulled he eventually got blocked from the entire
country's ISPs. Once he had created a track record as a morpher subsequent
ISPs rapidly removed his "new" accounts and his telephone CLI became blocked
from opening new subscriptions
Despite the possible amusement value I for one wouldn't lose any sleep if
the group didn't suffer so much nonsense, and wasting of bandwidth.

John wrote:


Despite the possible amusement value I for one wouldn't lose any sleep if
the group didn't suffer so much nonsense, and wasting of bandwidth.

He does seem to have got so much worse of late... it used to be one or
two threads every few days, but this is getting silly!

--
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John.

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John wrote:

Despite the possible amusement value I for one wouldn't lose any sleep if
the group didn't suffer so much nonsense, and wasting of bandwidth.

aolMe too/aol

Though I feel the pragmatic solution is in our hands, and is to let go
of the temptation to ding-dong with dIMM. A single, measured factual
correction for the benefit of the archives and the noobs, with an
invitation to Google IMM's posting history if you must, then leave the
undersocialised one to have the last word. The more interaction, the
more he's encouraged to pipe up.

Local, social solutions to local, social irritants typically work better
than centrally-administered technically-based ones.

"John" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) wrote:
More drivel

WILL YOU STOP MORPHING for Heaven's sake? This is the second time you
have escaped from my killfile.

According to another thread, he's had is account pulled for posting
'snip
drivel' so many times. And rightly so.


There was a Scandinavian (Inge) guy over in a satellite group a couple of
years ago
who had so many accounts pulled he eventually got blocked from the entire
country's ISPs. Once he had created a track record as a morpher subsequent
ISPs rapidly removed his "new" accounts and his telephone CLI became
blocked
from opening new subscriptions
Despite the possible amusement value I for one wouldn't lose any sleep if
the group didn't suffer so much nonsense, and wasting of bandwidth.

You are incompetent in you work that is clear. Well you lack basic
knowledge which would translate to incompetence. When I see incompetence I
tell people so. Hurts doesn't it.



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