Summer's here and the conservatory regularly tops 100 degrees even on
overcast days.

What are the best ways to keep the temperature within sensible limits
?

I've seen adverts for thermal inserts that are slid into the
polycarbonate roofing. The lack of any pricing structure leads me to
suspect that it's not cheap and will be a high-pressure sale of a
largely ineffective product. Is it worth considering ?

Other obvious solutions might be to use a thermostatically controlled
extracor fan or some sort of shading in the roof.

Has anybody any suggestions or observations ?

It's only a small conservatory, less than 3 metres square and south
facing.

"Roly" wrote in message
om...
Summer's here and the conservatory regularly tops 100 degrees even on
overcast days.

What are the best ways to keep the temperature within sensible limits
?

I've seen adverts for thermal inserts that are slid into the
polycarbonate roofing. The lack of any pricing structure leads me to
suspect that it's not cheap and will be a high-pressure sale of a
largely ineffective product. Is it worth considering ?

Other obvious solutions might be to use a thermostatically controlled
extracor fan or some sort of shading in the roof.

Has anybody any suggestions or observations ?

It's only a small conservatory, less than 3 metres square and south
facing.

I thatch mine for the summer using reed stuff on a roll, most garden centres
stock it, I got mine from Costco, stapled to a light wooden frame, this
stops the sting of the sun, reduces but doesn't black out the light inside
and makes the conservatory usable, several friends have copied the idea, all
think it works well, it is also very cheap.

mrcheerful

Roly wrote:
Summer's here and the conservatory regularly tops 100 degrees even on
overcast days.

What are the best ways to keep the temperature within sensible limits
?

I've seen adverts for thermal inserts that are slid into the
polycarbonate roofing. The lack of any pricing structure leads me to
suspect that it's not cheap and will be a high-pressure sale of a
largely ineffective product. Is it worth considering ?

Other obvious solutions might be to use a thermostatically controlled
extracor fan or some sort of shading in the roof.

Has anybody any suggestions or observations ?

It's only a small conservatory, less than 3 metres square and south
facing.

You'r looking at a solar gain of up to around 10Kw.
(need more information about total glass area in the sun direction.
for more accuracy)
Air absorbs around 1KJ/m^3/C.
So, to keep the temperature rise down to 10C, you'r looking at
..1m^3/s of airflow.
To keep it within a couple of degres, more like half a cubic meter
a second.

A 30cm fan should easily do this, requiring only an output speed of
1-5m/s or so.

Has anybody any suggestions or observations ?

Stick reflective insulating foil over the polycarbonate. The same stuff that
is used behind radiators or on campervan windscreens. Obviously, the fan can
help too. Install an opening roof light near the apex, so hot air can escape
through convection.

Christian.

Ian Stirling wrote in message ...

You'r looking at a solar gain of up to around 10Kw.
(need more information about total glass area in the sun direction.
for more accuracy)
Air absorbs around 1KJ/m^3/C.
So, to keep the temperature rise down to 10C, you'r looking at
.1m^3/s of airflow.
To keep it within a couple of degres, more like half a cubic meter
a second.

A 30cm fan should easily do this, requiring only an output speed of
1-5m/s or so.

Very interested in this thread - in a similar position with the house
we've just moved into recently. This time a large lean-to conservatory
- 5m wide by 3m deep, east facing against a two-storey house so mostly
in shade in the afternoon. Solid walls to south and north sides, fully
glazed to the east. Roof is very shallow pitch triple-wall
polycarbonate.

I would prefer to avoid air con due to high up-front and running
costs. Conservatory blinds seem to cost an awful lot as well. What
sort of air extraction rate might be required in this case? Any chance
one of those 275m3/hr Xpelair jobs might help, or are we talking major
air-shifting?

The inserts for polycarb roofs looking interesting, anyone had these
fitted?

TIA.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Mary Hinge wrote:

Ian Stirling wrote in message
...

You'r looking at a solar gain of up to around 10Kw.
(need more information about total glass area in the sun direction.
for more accuracy)
Air absorbs around 1KJ/m^3/C.
So, to keep the temperature rise down to 10C, you'r looking at
.1m^3/s of airflow.
To keep it within a couple of degres, more like half a cubic meter
a second.

A 30cm fan should easily do this, requiring only an output speed of
1-5m/s or so.

Very interested in this thread - in a similar position with the house
we've just moved into recently. This time a large lean-to conservatory
- 5m wide by 3m deep, east facing against a two-storey house so mostly
in shade in the afternoon. Solid walls to south and north sides, fully
glazed to the east. Roof is very shallow pitch triple-wall
polycarbonate.

I would prefer to avoid air con due to high up-front and running
costs. Conservatory blinds seem to cost an awful lot as well. What
sort of air extraction rate might be required in this case? Any chance
one of those 275m3/hr Xpelair jobs might help, or are we talking major
air-shifting?

The inserts for polycarb roofs looking interesting, anyone had these
fitted?

TIA.

I once considered putting solar-powered fans (similar to
http://www.gardencentre.co.uk/solar-.../pages/fan.htm but not
precisely this) in my conservatory - but never actually pursued it. There
seemed to be a certain logic in having a system whose extraction capacity
increased in line with the solar input. Don't know how well it would work in
practice.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is Black Hole!

On 19 May 2004 06:16:47 -0700, (Mary Hinge)
wrote:

Ian Stirling wrote in message ...

You'r looking at a solar gain of up to around 10Kw.
(need more information about total glass area in the sun direction.
for more accuracy)
Air absorbs around 1KJ/m^3/C.
So, to keep the temperature rise down to 10C, you'r looking at
.1m^3/s of airflow.
To keep it within a couple of degres, more like half a cubic meter
a second.

A 30cm fan should easily do this, requiring only an output speed of
1-5m/s or so.

Very interested in this thread - in a similar position with the house
we've just moved into recently. This time a large lean-to conservatory
- 5m wide by 3m deep, east facing against a two-storey house so mostly
in shade in the afternoon. Solid walls to south and north sides, fully
glazed to the east. Roof is very shallow pitch triple-wall
polycarbonate.

I would prefer to avoid air con due to high up-front and running
costs. Conservatory blinds seem to cost an awful lot as well. What
sort of air extraction rate might be required in this case? Any chance
one of those 275m3/hr Xpelair jobs might help, or are we talking major
air-shifting?


I am not sure which ones you mean here.

Short of fitting air conditioning, there are four main things that
can be done:

- Fit roof vents which can be opened to allow the warm air to convect
out. This is very effective and also pulls in cooler air through
the door, windows or from inside the house.

- Fit fans in the roof. I used two large 54" types which are run at
low speed and are hence silent. They can also be run in either
direction. In the summer, they further assist the vents and in the
winter circulate the warm air.

- Fit blinds. These are not inexpensive if you want good ones.
For maximum exclusion of inbound heat, the reflecting type - typically
concertina on wires give the best results but are not a thing of
beauty. I used pinoleum blinds, which are still quite effective but
look a great deal better.

- Fit curtains or window blinds. How useful this is depends on the
relative position to the sun.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

- Fit blinds. These are not inexpensive if you want good ones.

A double negative. An attempt to confuse or make out you are cleverer what
your are. I suspect the latter. It should be:

These are expensive

tsk, tsk.

- Fit blinds. These are not inexpensive if you want good ones.

A double negative. An attempt to confuse or make out you are cleverer what
your are. I suspect the latter.

Actually, "expensive" and "not inexpensive" have subtly different meanings,
particularly when regarding any middle ground.

Christian.

On Wed, 19 May 2004 15:22:11 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

- Fit blinds. These are not inexpensive if you want good ones.

A double negative. An attempt to confuse or make out you are cleverer what
your are.

Based on your performance in the heatbank thread, that is a truly
amazing comment.

I suspect the latter. It should be:

These are expensive

tsk, tsk.


Wrong. Something can be inexpensive, of medium price or expensive.

Saying that something is not inexpensive merely indicates that. It
could be of medium price or expensive.

All three are ultimately in the opinion of the buyer.

To you, anything that can't be bought on a market stall for a fiver is
expensive, and you seem to lack an ability to relate value to price.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
. net...
- Fit blinds. These are not inexpensive if you want good ones.

A double negative. An attempt to confuse or make out you are cleverer
what
your are. I suspect the latter.

Actually, "expensive" and "not inexpensive" have subtly different
meanings,
particularly when regarding any middle ground.

Sop you are saying he was trying to confuse.

Sop you are saying he was trying to confuse.

No. I was saying that your statement equating "not inexpensive" with
"expensive" was incorrect. Clearly, he did confuse you, though.

Christian.

On Wed, 19 May 2004 15:53:48 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Christian McArdle" wrote in message
.net...
- Fit blinds. These are not inexpensive if you want good ones.

A double negative. An attempt to confuse or make out you are cleverer
what
your are. I suspect the latter.

Actually, "expensive" and "not inexpensive" have subtly different
meanings,
particularly when regarding any middle ground.

Sop you are saying he was trying to confuse.

There's only one person in this NG who causes confusion....

along with a number of other things of course...... :-)



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 May 2004 15:22:11 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

- Fit blinds. These are not inexpensive if you want good ones.

A double negative. An attempt to confuse or make out you are cleverer
what
your are.

snip tripe by a snot

IMM wrote:



snip tripe by a snot



I know it's a long shot but I'd be really grateful if you stopped doing
this as it adds nothing to the conversation and even though I've onbly
been reading this group for a few months, it's getting a bid dull and
certainly doesn't give an impression of the thoughtful intelligent
person I'm sure you are really

Thank you

Nick Brooks
(expecting snip tripe by xxxxx)

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

snip tripe by a snot

I know it's a long shot but I'd be really grateful if you stopped doing
this as it adds nothing to the conversation and even though I've onbly
been reading this group for a few months, it's getting a bid dull and
certainly doesn't give an impression of the thoughtful intelligent
person I'm sure you are really

Thank you

Nick Brooks
(expecting snip tripe by xxxxx)

As you have probably assessed by now, I don't suffer fools gladly.

IMM wrote:

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:

snip tripe by a snot

I know it's a long shot but I'd be really grateful if you stopped doing
this as it adds nothing to the conversation and even though I've onbly
been reading this group for a few months, it's getting a bid dull and
certainly doesn't give an impression of the thoughtful intelligent
person I'm sure you are really

Thank you

Nick Brooks
(expecting snip tripe by xxxxx)

As you have probably assessed by now, I don't suffer fools gladly.

That'll explain the attitude.

On Wed, 19 May 2004 15:09:06 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 19 May 2004 06:16:47 -0700, (Mary Hinge)
wrote:

Ian Stirling wrote in message ...

You'r looking at a solar gain of up to around 10Kw.
(need more information about total glass area in the sun direction.
for more accuracy)
Air absorbs around 1KJ/m^3/C.
So, to keep the temperature rise down to 10C, you'r looking at
.1m^3/s of airflow.
To keep it within a couple of degres, more like half a cubic meter
a second.

A 30cm fan should easily do this, requiring only an output speed of
1-5m/s or so.

Very interested in this thread - in a similar position with the house
we've just moved into recently. This time a large lean-to conservatory
- 5m wide by 3m deep, east facing against a two-storey house so mostly
in shade in the afternoon. Solid walls to south and north sides, fully
glazed to the east. Roof is very shallow pitch triple-wall
polycarbonate.

I would prefer to avoid air con due to high up-front and running
costs. Conservatory blinds seem to cost an awful lot as well. What
sort of air extraction rate might be required in this case? Any chance
one of those 275m3/hr Xpelair jobs might help, or are we talking major
air-shifting?


I am not sure which ones you mean here.

Short of fitting air conditioning, there are four main things that
can be done:

- Fit roof vents which can be opened to allow the warm air to convect
out. This is very effective and also pulls in cooler air through
the door, windows or from inside the house.

- Fit fans in the roof. I used two large 54" types which are run at
low speed and are hence silent. They can also be run in either
direction. In the summer, they further assist the vents and in the
winter circulate the warm air.

- Fit blinds. These are not inexpensive if you want good ones.
For maximum exclusion of inbound heat, the reflecting type - typically
concertina on wires give the best results but are not a thing of
beauty. I used pinoleum blinds, which are still quite effective but
look a great deal better.

Question: On a hot day, with say the vents open but the fans off and
the blinds up, what's the internal temperature like?

Brian

Mary Hinge wrote:
Ian Stirling wrote in message ...

You'r looking at a solar gain of up to around 10Kw.
(need more information about total glass area in the sun direction.
for more accuracy)
Air absorbs around 1KJ/m^3/C.
So, to keep the temperature rise down to 10C, you'r looking at
.1m^3/s of airflow.
To keep it within a couple of degres, more like half a cubic meter
a second.

A 30cm fan should easily do this, requiring only an output speed of
1-5m/s or so.

Very interested in this thread - in a similar position with the house
we've just moved into recently. This time a large lean-to conservatory
- 5m wide by 3m deep, east facing against a two-storey house so mostly
in shade in the afternoon. Solid walls to south and north sides, fully
glazed to the east. Roof is very shallow pitch triple-wall
polycarbonate.

I would prefer to avoid air con due to high up-front and running
costs. Conservatory blinds seem to cost an awful lot as well. What
sort of air extraction rate might be required in this case? Any chance
one of those 275m3/hr Xpelair jobs might help, or are we talking major
air-shifting?

For ballpark use, the total heat gain is 1Kw/m^2.
This area is measured at right angles to the sun.
As the day goes on, the area rises and falls depending on the angle
which the sun is shining onto it.

I'll assume that the 5m is against the house, and that it's 2.5m tall.
In the morning, you've got some 5*2.5 = 12.5Kw.
As a very rough ballpark, 1Kw raises the temperature of a 1m^3
by 1C in 1 second.

275m^3/h is (/3600) =.08m^3/s.
Heated by 20C, this will absorb .08*20 = 1.6Kw, which is about an eighth
of what you need.

So, if this was the only means of cooling, it'd heat to some 160C.
The polypropylene will probably melt, and let the heat out first
(or more accurately, it'll simply go out through the walls.

On Wed, 19 May 2004 18:41:46 +0100,
wrote:

On Wed, 19 May 2004 15:09:06 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:


I am not sure which ones you mean here.

Short of fitting air conditioning, there are four main things that
can be done:

- Fit roof vents which can be opened to allow the warm air to convect
out. This is very effective and also pulls in cooler air through
the door, windows or from inside the house.

- Fit fans in the roof. I used two large 54" types which are run at
low speed and are hence silent. They can also be run in either
direction. In the summer, they further assist the vents and in the
winter circulate the warm air.

- Fit blinds. These are not inexpensive if you want good ones.
For maximum exclusion of inbound heat, the reflecting type - typically
concertina on wires give the best results but are not a thing of
beauty. I used pinoleum blinds, which are still quite effective but
look a great deal better.

Question: On a hot day, with say the vents open but the fans off and
the blinds up, what's the internal temperature like?

Brian


That really is a "how long is a bit of string" question.

A lot depends on how much of the conservatory is in sunlight, for how
long and which part of the day. It also varies seasonally of course.

Mine faces north west and so only receives major sun from mid
afternoon onwards.

Use of the blinds and vents make a big difference.

I tend to open the doors on particularly hot days which effectively
makes the internal temperature virtually the same as outside, under
shade.

I would suggest taking it one step at a time and seeing what suits
you.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..

I am not sure which ones you mean here.

Oh you know, the extractor thingies more commonly seen in kitchens.
Vent Axia also rings a bell. Pull a cord or push a button and off they
go, commonly wall mounted. Marvellous.

- Fit roof vents which can be opened to allow the warm air to convect
out. This is very effective and also pulls in cooler air through
the door, windows or from inside the house.

Roof vents sound like just the ticket, didn't realise they could be
fitted to polycarb roofs. I assume they close, got any links for
visual examples?

Ta.

"IMM" wrote in message ...

a load of ********

**** off IMM, if you can't add anything constructive to the thread
then don't bother.

Jesus what a ****.

In message , Mary Hinge
writes
"IMM" wrote in message
...

a load of ********

**** off IMM, if you can't add anything constructive to the thread
then don't bother.

Jesus what a ****.

That's telling him

it won't make any different though - he doesn't understand words and
complicated things like that
--
geoff

On 19 May 2004 13:52:19 -0700, (Mary Hinge)
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote in message . ..

I am not sure which ones you mean here.

Oh you know, the extractor thingies more commonly seen in kitchens.
Vent Axia also rings a bell. Pull a cord or push a button and off they
go, commonly wall mounted. Marvellous.

- Fit roof vents which can be opened to allow the warm air to convect
out. This is very effective and also pulls in cooler air through
the door, windows or from inside the house.

Roof vents sound like just the ticket, didn't realise they could be
fitted to polycarb roofs. I assume they close, got any links for
visual examples?

Ta.

Generally these are part and parcel of the roof construction.

Ultraframe are among the largest of the UK manufacturers, and their
roof structures are used by other suppliers as well.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Mary Hinge" wrote in message
m...
"IMM" wrote in message
...

a load of ********

**** off IMM, if you can't add anything constructive to the thread
then don't bother.

Jesus what a ****.

My name is not Jesus.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Mary Hinge
writes
"IMM" wrote in message
...

a load of ********

**** off IMM, if you can't add anything constructive to the thread
then don't bother.

Jesus what a ****.

That's telling him

Maxie, when are you going to the Far East to get your rocks off?

In message , IMM
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Mary Hinge
writes
"IMM" wrote in message
...

a load of ********

**** off IMM, if you can't add anything constructive to the thread
then don't bother.

Jesus what a ****.

That's telling him

Maxie, when are you going to the Far East to get your rocks off?

None of your business ****tard

--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

"Mary Hinge" wrote in message
om...
"IMM" wrote in message
...

a load of ********

**** off IMM, if you can't add anything constructive to the thread
then don't bother.

Jesus what a ****.

My name is not Jesus.

No just **** will do
--
geoff

In article ,
(Mary Hinge) wrote:

I would prefer to avoid air con due to high up-front and running
costs.

Actually, air con doesn't seem to have terribly high running costs and has
the advantage of (a) working and (b) keeping humidity to comfortable
levels.

The planting geraniums thing, of course, doesn't work and is bugger all use
on the humidity front.

Try http://www.casupply.co.uk


--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

"geoff" wrote
| IMM writes
| **** off IMM, if you can't add anything constructive to the thread
| then don't bother.
| Jesus what a ****.
| My name is not Jesus.
| No just **** will do

Can we try and be more imaginative with our insults please. This is a
quality newsgroup.

Owain

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Mary Hinge
writes
"IMM" wrote in message
...

a load of ********

**** off IMM, if you can't add anything constructive to the thread
then don't bother.

Jesus what a ****.

That's telling him

Maxie, when are you going to the Far East to get your rocks off?

None of your business ****tard

Maxie, you need some R&R.

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , IMM
writes

"Mary Hinge" wrote in message
om...
"IMM" wrote in message
...

a load of ********

**** off IMM, if you can't add anything constructive to the thread
then don't bother.

Jesus what a ****.

My name is not Jesus.

No just **** will do

Maxie, book the Far East flight now. You are deteriorating by the day.

"Simon Gardner" [dot]co[dot]uk wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Mary Hinge) wrote:

I would prefer to avoid air con due to high up-front and running
costs.

Totally correct.

Actually, air con doesn't seem
to have terribly high running costs

It does.

"Owain" wrote in message ...

Can we try and be more imaginative with our insults please. This is a
quality newsgroup.

I see your point, and I must admit a certain disappointment in having
to go for such a basic choice of insult. However I do feel, and I'm
sure that most would agree, that '****' could not be bettered in this
instance.

I should point out that I wasn't inferring that Jesus Christ, Our
Lord, Son of God is a **** (after all he died for our sins you know),
but of course the International Man of abject stupidity.

MH

"Mary Hinge" wrote in message
m...
"Owain" wrote in message
...

Can we try and be more imaginative with our insults please. This is a
quality newsgroup.

I see your point, and I must admit a certain disappointment in having
to go for such a basic choice of insult. However I do feel, and I'm
sure that most would agree, that '****' could not be bettered in this
instance.

I should point out that I wasn't inferring that Jesus Christ, Our
Lord, Son of God is a **** (after all he died for our sins you know),
but of course the International Man of abject stupidity.

I suggest the word C**T is most apt to you too my dear. You lack
intelligence that is clear.

"Christian McArdle" wrote in message .net...

Stick reflective insulating foil over the polycarbonate. The same stuff that
is used behind radiators or on campervan windscreens. Obviously, the fan can
help too. Install an opening roof light near the apex, so hot air can escape
through convection.


Or maybe have some metallised mylar curtains on a rod, so you can open
and close the reflective curtains when you want.

Thermostatic roof vents are certainly good, as used in most commercial
gerenhouses, but better controlled ones can be much better. Really you
want those vents open at night while its cool out, to store as much
coolth in the structure as possible. This does make a sizeable
difference. Ensure security is not compromised etc.

A deciduous climbing plant on the outer walls is another option: leafs
up in summer to keep most of the sun off, as well as looking lovely,
and deleafs in winter to let the sun in, and provide a display of
stems only. Note that exterior reflectors are more effective than
interior, since reflection is never 100%, and glass transmission is
also not 100%. Make it a nice decorative fruiting climber and how
could you resist?


Regards, NT

"Mary Hinge" wrote
| I should point out that I wasn't inferring that Jesus Christ, Our
| Lord, Son of God is a **** (after all he died for our sins you know),

Yes, but on the third day he rose from the dead, so it wasn't exactly the
ultimate sacrifice :-)

Owain

PS Do you have a sister Evadne who lives in Stackton Tressle? I used to love
her radio programmes as a child.

"Owain" wrote in message ...

PS Do you have a sister Evadne who lives in Stackton Tressle? I used to love
her radio programmes as a child.

No, alas I have no siblings but my dearest friends Mary Huff and Betty
Swollocks are like sisters to me.

MH

"Mary Hinge" wrote in message
m...
"Owain" wrote in message
...

PS Do you have a sister Evadne who lives in Stackton Tressle? I used to
love
her radio programmes as a child.

No, alas I have no siblings but my dearest friends Mary Huff and Betty
Swollocks are like sisters to me.

Great Scott! Sounds like a right old Mary.