In message , BigWallop
) wrote:
Subject: ODPM admits Part P consulation flawed

The need will soon be here for a seller to have a full survey done on
their home
before a sale can go ahead. The survey will include all gas,
electric and
structural design and safety Etc. Etc. so that a new buyer knows they
aren't
walking in to a dump that going to blow up, burn down or fall over
after they
move in. It will be down to the survey companies to keep a good
reputation in
this field as well, because anyone found falsifying documents for a
profit will
be shot at dawn.

Don't you think these changes would make a sound investment if buying
a new
house? You'll already know that you're not moving in to a dangerous
bodgit and
ham flung shack with your family. Even though some wrinkles do need
ironed out
on the current amendments wording.


That's just too tempting a question to ignore. No is the answer,
definitely not.

Firstly a survey on gas, electric, structural design etc costs a small
fortune at the very time a buyer can least afford it.

Secondly these surveys have anything but a satisfactory history, with
inappropriate nitpicking complaints being almost routine, and
recommendations for inappropriate works being common too.

Third they do not provide any kind of indication of how important each
issue is - or in fact whether its an issue at all, which it often is
not.

Fourth I can do a much better survey myself in 2 hours at no cost, as
can a substantial number of people.

Fifth such surveys are a waste of time and money for the many
properties that change hands with known assorted provlems in need of
repair: people that buy these properties are not clueless people that
need the above surveying doing for them.

Sixth such surveys are too often used to generate bogus faults, or to
exaggerate trivial faults out of so much proportion as to try to knock
the buyer's price down with no reasonable grounds, or they result in
evidently expertise-starved mortgage lenders making inappropriate
demands and restrictions.

Seventh and finally, and possibly most importantly, do you not think
that each of us is a grown up capable of deciding for ourselves when
and whether to have what kind of survey or paperwork exercise? Why
exactly would we need to force everyone to spend on a closed shop
service that almost none of us would choose of our own free will? Do
you not see the agenda there? The percentage of grown ups that choose
to have a full survey now is, trying to remember, something like 1% or
2%. We dont want them! And thanks nanny, but I think we can decide for
ourselves, dont you?


NT

PS I didnt pay for any survey when I moved here, and am glad I didnt.

N. Thornton wrote:

Seventh and finally, and possibly most importantly, do you not think
that each of us is a grown up capable of deciding for ourselves when
and whether to have what kind of survey or paperwork exercise? Why
exactly would we need to force everyone to spend on a closed shop
service that almost none of us would choose of our own free will? Do
you not see the agenda there? The percentage of grown ups that choose
to have a full survey now is, trying to remember, something like 1% or
2%. We dont want them! And thanks nanny, but I think we can decide for
ourselves, dont you?

Prezactly. There's a huge range of choices we all make in doing a house
move / house purchase - balancing a hundred "nice to have" factors
against a basic "mortgage repayments exceeding gross income by a factor
of two" ;-) How comprehensive a survey to go for, whether to try to
cover the bulk of eventualities or to concentrate on a couple of worry
areas, balancing our own knowledge against what we believe we can pay
for. The interests of society at large are already catered for in
building regs and planning law, which work together to avoid the worst
excesses of an unregulated market; beyond that point, no bureaucracy can
anticipate the myriad of factors people want to take into account when
deciding on moving house (or choosing whether to buy at all).

As I'm sure I've wittered on about before, the best 100 quid or so we
ever spent in connection with a housemove was about 20 years ago, when
we were in our mid-twenties and keen on a quite pretty-looking little
detached cottagey place in North Oxford. It'd had its attic/loft built
into, and the job had been bodged such that the roof was squashing down
and pushing the tops of the walls out. The surveyor was smart enough to
phone us with this news within a day of doing the survey, offering us a
substantial saving off the cost of the survey if we were happy with his
verbal report rather'n a written one (sthg like 80 quid vs 140). Spies
in a place up the road confirmed the eventual purchasers spent most of a
winter in a caravan in the garden while the necessary structural
remediation was done. The kind of thoughtful flexibility extended to us
by that surveyor is impossible under the micro-regulated dreamworld
which brings us Part P...

Stefek

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
In message , BigWallop
) wrote:
Subject: ODPM admits Part P consulation flawed

The need will soon be here for a seller to have a full survey done on
their home
before a sale can go ahead. The survey will include all gas,
electric and
structural design and safety Etc. Etc. so that a new buyer knows they
aren't
walking in to a dump that going to blow up, burn down or fall over
after they
move in. It will be down to the survey companies to keep a good
reputation in
this field as well, because anyone found falsifying documents for a
profit will
be shot at dawn.

Don't you think these changes would make a sound investment if buying
a new
house? You'll already know that you're not moving in to a dangerous
bodgit and
ham flung shack with your family. Even though some wrinkles do need
ironed out
on the current amendments wording.


That's just too tempting a question to ignore. No is the answer,
definitely not.

Firstly a survey on gas, electric, structural design etc costs a small
fortune at the very time a buyer can least afford it.

That does of course depend on your definition of a small fortune!
A "full" electrical survey will be expensive but a simple outline survey
which would confirm a representative check of suitable current rating cables
being used, an earth loop impedance/confirmation of suitable earthing
measures, an insulation test and a report on the general condition of
accessible/visible parts should be sufficient to put a prospective buyers
mind at rest.
A gas safety inspection to the level of a landlords gas safety inspection
would not be particularly expensive.
A structural survey for most properties will depend on known local
conditions but two or three hundred ought to meet the needs of most small
dwellings.


Secondly these surveys have anything but a satisfactory history, with
inappropriate nitpicking complaints being almost routine, and
recommendations for inappropriate works being common too.

As usual the surveyor uses lots of wriggles to avoid being sued if he has
missed anything


Third they do not provide any kind of indication of how important each
issue is - or in fact whether its an issue at all, which it often is
not.

That can be addressed by asking for clarification when needed


Fourth I can do a much better survey myself in 2 hours at no cost, as
can a substantial number of people.

YUP but we are talking about the great unwashed here


Fifth such surveys are a waste of time and money for the many
properties that change hands with known assorted provlems in need of
repair: people that buy these properties are not clueless people that
need the above surveying doing for them.

YUP again


Sixth such surveys are too often used to generate bogus faults, or to
exaggerate trivial faults out of so much proportion as to try to knock
the buyer's price down with no reasonable grounds, or they result in
evidently expertise-starved mortgage lenders making inappropriate
demands and restrictions.

**** happens


Seventh and finally, and possibly most importantly, do you not think
that each of us is a grown up capable of deciding for ourselves when
and whether to have what kind of survey or paperwork exercise? Why
exactly would we need to force everyone to spend on a closed shop
service that almost none of us would choose of our own free will? Do
you not see the agenda there? The percentage of grown ups that choose
to have a full survey now is, trying to remember, something like 1% or
2%. We dont want them! And thanks nanny, but I think we can decide for
ourselves, dont you?

I can decide for myself but many people can't. We must keep those in mind
also. I do agree that it should be voluntary though or at least
non-compulsory if the buyer doesn't want the survey. Mortgage lenders only
have power over folks who need their money.

"John" wrote in message
...

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
In message , BigWallop
) wrote:
Subject: ODPM admits Part P consulation flawed

The need will soon be here for a seller to have a full survey done on
their home
before a sale can go ahead. The survey will include all gas,
electric and
structural design and safety Etc. Etc. so that a new buyer knows they
aren't
walking in to a dump that going to blow up, burn down or fall over
after they
move in. It will be down to the survey companies to keep a good
reputation in
this field as well, because anyone found falsifying documents for a
profit will
be shot at dawn.

Don't you think these changes would make a sound investment if buying
a new
house? You'll already know that you're not moving in to a dangerous
bodgit and
ham flung shack with your family. Even though some wrinkles do need
ironed out
on the current amendments wording.


That's just too tempting a question to ignore. No is the answer,
definitely not.

Firstly a survey on gas, electric, structural design etc costs a small
fortune at the very time a buyer can least afford it.

That does of course depend on your definition of a small fortune!
A "full" electrical survey will be expensive but a simple outline survey
which would confirm a representative check of suitable current rating
cables
being used, an earth loop impedance/confirmation of suitable earthing
measures, an insulation test and a report on the general condition of
accessible/visible parts should be sufficient to put a prospective buyers
mind at rest.
A gas safety inspection to the level of a landlords gas safety inspection
would not be particularly expensive.


A structural survey for most properties will depend on known local
conditions but two or three hundred ought to meet the needs of most small
dwellings.

I think that should just about cover the liability insurance but the guy
wants to make a living as well. I think it's usually nearer six hundred up.
Ours was quoted as £1500 (large semi-derilict farmhouse) so I asked the
vendor for a weekend access (not a happy bunny) and did it all myself.
Haven't found anything major I missed yet, though everything was a bit worse
than at first glance of course.