In message , Andrew Gabriel
) wrote:
In article ,
Lurch writes:
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:54:48 -0000, "James"
strung together this:

One interesting question though. If you are a fully qualified
electrician do
you still need to pay to £1000 (estimated total part p up sign up
costs over
a year) to work on homes ?

Yes.

If so what is the incentive to sign up,

There isn't one, unless you really really want to be an
electrician,
which I don't anymore so I'm not.

Yes, if you read the trade press, lots of electricians are now
dropping out of the industry, particularly if they were near
retirement age anyway. Apparently, almost none have signed up
for any of the Part P schemes. Expect a massive shortage of
electricians to undertake domestic work, even on the black
market. There was already a shortage before all this happened.


Would I be correct in saying that domestic electricians do not need to
certify their work. Whose responsibility is it now, the householders
or the sparky's to apply to the local BCO or whatever it is?

Are there in fact any qualifications needed in a domestic sparky? I
know a while ago none were needed, but dont know if this has changed.

NT

Post a fowwow-up to dis message

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
In message , Andrew Gabriel
) wrote:
In article ,
Lurch writes:
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:54:48 -0000, "James"
strung together this:

One interesting question though. If you are a fully qualified
electrician do
you still need to pay to £1000 (estimated total part p up sign up
costs over
a year) to work on homes ?

Yes.

If so what is the incentive to sign up,

There isn't one, unless you really really want to be an
electrician,
which I don't anymore so I'm not.

Yes, if you read the trade press, lots of electricians are now
dropping out of the industry, particularly if they were near
retirement age anyway. Apparently, almost none have signed up
for any of the Part P schemes. Expect a massive shortage of
electricians to undertake domestic work, even on the black
market. There was already a shortage before all this happened.


Would I be correct in saying that domestic electricians do not need to
certify their work. Whose responsibility is it now, the householders
or the sparky's to apply to the local BCO or whatever it is?

Are there in fact any qualifications needed in a domestic sparky? I
know a while ago none were needed, but dont know if this has changed.

NT


I always thought it was a necessity for any contractor to be responsible for
their work. If only to provide a timed guarantee period. If it was found to be
a faulty or un-safe installation (not up to current safety standards for the
industry), then you could be sued by the purchaser to redeem costs for any
remedial or replacement work. Liability insurance and all that. The Amendments
to Part P of the building regulations only reinforce this requirement. It won't
stop anyone doing their homers at the weekends.

The need for electricians to register for self testing and certifying of their
work is only bringing them more in to line with other trades likes gas fitters
and the likes. So why the sparkies are all shunning this registration, I don't
know. It could actually mean an increase in their work load, and maybe their
reputations, if they were able to qualify their own work and have jobs randomly
checked to see if they are keeping in line with all the good trade practices.

We have registration to NACOSS and the ACPO, SACPO schemes, and it means a
random check is carried out on some of the work we do in peoples homes or
offices. The tester will choose a customer at random from our invoice book and
call them to see if they can arrange a visit to see the work that was carried by
us. They also ask customers if they found our whole attitude and service polite
and courteous. We actually pride ourselves in giving customers good service,
and strive very hard to keep it that way. The independent check from an outside
body is one way of knowing that your work is still good, and can actually show
up any slackers in the den.

The need will soon be here for a seller to have a full survey done on their home
before a sale can go ahead. The survey will include all gas, electric and
structural design and safety Etc. Etc. so that a new buyer knows they aren't
walking in to a dump that going to blow up, burn down or fall over after they
move in. It will be down to the survey companies to keep a good reputation in
this field as well, because anyone found falsifying documents for a profit will
be shot at dawn.

Don't you think these changes would make a sound investment if buying a new
house? You'll already know that you're not moving in to a dangerous bodgit and
ham flung shack with your family. Even though some wrinkles do need ironed out
on the current amendments wording.

N. Thornton wrote:

Post a fowwow-up to dis message

wwotch owt thew wascawwy wabbit iws behwhind wou!

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 02:28:53 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:



I always thought it was a necessity for any contractor to be responsible for
their work. If only to provide a timed guarantee period. If it was found to be
a faulty or un-safe installation (not up to current safety standards for the
industry), then you could be sued by the purchaser to redeem costs for any
remedial or replacement work. Liability insurance and all that. The Amendments
to Part P of the building regulations only reinforce this requirement. It won't
stop anyone doing their homers at the weekends.

The need for electricians to register for self testing and certifying of their
work is only bringing them more in to line with other trades likes gas fitters
and the likes. So why the sparkies are all shunning this registration, I don't
know. It could actually mean an increase in their work load, and maybe their
reputations, if they were able to qualify their own work and have jobs randomly
checked to see if they are keeping in line with all the good trade practices.

We have registration to NACOSS and the ACPO, SACPO schemes, and it means a
random check is carried out on some of the work we do in peoples homes or
offices. The tester will choose a customer at random from our invoice book and
call them to see if they can arrange a visit to see the work that was carried by
us. They also ask customers if they found our whole attitude and service polite
and courteous. We actually pride ourselves in giving customers good service,
and strive very hard to keep it that way. The independent check from an outside
body is one way of knowing that your work is still good, and can actually show
up any slackers in the den.

How big is the sample rate though? 2-3 jobs per year out of hundreds?



The need will soon be here for a seller to have a full survey done on their home
before a sale can go ahead. The survey will include all gas, electric and
structural design and safety Etc. Etc. so that a new buyer knows they aren't
walking in to a dump that going to blow up, burn down or fall over after they
move in. It will be down to the survey companies to keep a good reputation in
this field as well, because anyone found falsifying documents for a profit will
be shot at dawn.

Who will police this and at what rate of policing?

There is something fundamentally flawed in a system where the seller
is commissioning and paying for the survey.





Don't you think these changes would make a sound investment if buying a new
house? You'll already know that you're not moving in to a dangerous bodgit and
ham flung shack with your family. Even though some wrinkles do need ironed out
on the current amendments wording.



No I don't. I would always arrange my own surveys and deduct the
cost from the purchase price.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"N. Thornton" wrote
| Would I be correct in saying that domestic electricians do not
| need to certify their work.

What do you mean by 'certify'? The point of Part P is that work must be
carried out either by a registered contractor or under the auspices of
Building Control

| Whose responsibility is it now, the householders
| or the sparky's to apply to the local BCO or whatever it is?

It is the householder's legal duty to ensure that all Building Control
applications and other statutory obligations are fulfilled. There may be a
contractual agreement that the contractor will make the application and
include the fees in his bill, but it remains the householder's legal duty to
ensure this is done.

| Are there in fact any qualifications needed in a domestic sparky? I
| know a while ago none were needed, but dont know if this has changed.

Of course not. This isn't about qualifications or competence.

Owain

"BigWallop" wrote in message
k...

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
In message , Andrew Gabriel
) wrote:
In article ,
Lurch writes:
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:54:48 -0000, "James"
strung together this:

One interesting question though. If you are a fully qualified
electrician do
you still need to pay to £1000 (estimated total part p up sign up
costs over
a year) to work on homes ?

Yes.

If so what is the incentive to sign up,

There isn't one, unless you really really want to be an
electrician,
which I don't anymore so I'm not.

Yes, if you read the trade press, lots of electricians are now
dropping out of the industry, particularly if they were near
retirement age anyway. Apparently, almost none have signed up
for any of the Part P schemes. Expect a massive shortage of
electricians to undertake domestic work, even on the black
market. There was already a shortage before all this happened.


Would I be correct in saying that domestic electricians do not need to
certify their work. Whose responsibility is it now, the householders
or the sparky's to apply to the local BCO or whatever it is?

Are there in fact any qualifications needed in a domestic sparky? I
know a while ago none were needed, but dont know if this has changed.

NT


I always thought it was a necessity for any contractor to be responsible
for
their work. If only to provide a timed guarantee period. If it was found
to be
a faulty or un-safe installation (not up to current safety standards for
the
industry), then you could be sued by the purchaser to redeem costs for any
remedial or replacement work. Liability insurance and all that. The
Amendments
to Part P of the building regulations only reinforce this requirement. It
won't
stop anyone doing their homers at the weekends.

What do you mean it won't stop homers at the weekend, that's exactly what it
does. No one including sparkys can do hone electrical work with out part p
certification or building control.



I'm not a sparky so don't think I am standing up for them only, but if a
qualified sparkly cant do their own electronics what is this nanny state
coming to.



I agree with another poster that a minimal test should be put in place ,
where the local councils to allow DIYers (and non part p sparkys) to do work
on their own home, or that of friend but as long as no free is charged.






The need for electricians to register for self testing and certifying of
their
work is only bringing them more in to line with other trades likes gas
fitters
and the likes.
I believe that you don't need to be corgi registered to do your own gas
work, just "competent" but that's another argument.





So why the sparkys are all shunning this registration,



How about approx £ 1000 pounds costs in the first year,


I don't
know. It could actually mean an increase in their work load, and maybe
their
reputations, if they were able to qualify their own work and have jobs
randomly
checked to see if they are keeping in line with all the good trade
practices.

We have registration to NACOSS and the ACPO, SACPO schemes, and it means a
random check is carried out on some of the work we do in peoples homes or
offices. The tester will choose a customer at random from our invoice
book and
call them to see if they can arrange a visit to see the work that was
carried by
us. They also ask customers if they found our whole attitude and service
polite
and courteous. We actually pride ourselves in giving customers good
service,
and strive very hard to keep it that way. The independent check from an
outside
body is one way of knowing that your work is still good, and can actually
show
up any slackers in the den.

The need will soon be here for a seller to have a full survey done on
their home
before a sale can go ahead. The survey will include all gas, electric and
structural design and safety Etc. Etc. so that a new buyer knows they
aren't
walking in to a dump that going to blow up, burn down or fall over after
they
move in.

I agree with surveys, but when I purchased my home I was recommended to go
for the middle survey, steer clear of the basic one for obvious reasons. The
most comprehensive survey was only recommended or old houses.


It will be down to the survey companies to keep a good reputation in
this field as well, because anyone found falsifying documents for a profit
will
be shot at dawn.

Don't you think these changes would make a sound investment if buying a
new
house?

Not so sure, but I can se some reasons behind them, but mostly just a nanny
state and profit.


You'll already know that you're not moving in to a dangerous bodgit and
ham flung shack with your family. Even though some wrinkles do need
ironed out
on the current amendments wording.

The need for electricians to register for self testing and certifying of
their
work is only bringing them more in to line with other trades likes gas
fitters
and the likes.
I believe that you don't need to be corgi registered to do your own gas
work, just "competent" but that's another argument.

...and the biggest objection to Part P is that they redefined the word 'competent' to mean a member
of the appropriate cartel.

So why the sparkys are all shunning this registration,

How about approx £ 1000 pounds costs in the first year,

,..and the realisation that so many people will be ignorant of, or just not care about the new regs
that it won't get them any more business.

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 18:12:11 UTC, Mike Harrison
wrote:

..and the biggest objection to Part P is that they redefined the word 'competent' to mean a member
of the appropriate cartel.

Indeed. Which locks out the majority of genuinely competent people.

,..and the realisation that so many people will be ignorant of, or just not care about the new regs

I see that B&Q have a small notice by the electrical bits...saying you
should consult Building Control or look at the OD{M website.

--
Bob Eager
begin a new life...dump Windows!

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 17:29:27 +0000, James wrote:


"BigWallop" wrote in message
k...

"N. Thornton" wrote in message
om...
In message , Andrew Gabriel
) wrote:
In article ,
Lurch writes:
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 18:54:48 -0000, "James"
strung together this:

One interesting question though. If you are a fully qualified
electrician do
you still need to pay to £1000 (estimated total part p up sign up
costs over
a year) to work on homes ?

Yes.

If so what is the incentive to sign up,

There isn't one, unless you really really want to be an
electrician,
which I don't anymore so I'm not.

Yes, if you read the trade press, lots of electricians are now
dropping out of the industry, particularly if they were near
retirement age anyway. Apparently, almost none have signed up
for any of the Part P schemes. Expect a massive shortage of
electricians to undertake domestic work, even on the black
market. There was already a shortage before all this happened.


Would I be correct in saying that domestic electricians do not need to
certify their work. Whose responsibility is it now, the householders
or the sparky's to apply to the local BCO or whatever it is?

Are there in fact any qualifications needed in a domestic sparky? I
know a while ago none were needed, but dont know if this has changed.

NT


I always thought it was a necessity for any contractor to be responsible
for
their work. If only to provide a timed guarantee period. If it was found
to be
a faulty or un-safe installation (not up to current safety standards for
the
industry), then you could be sued by the purchaser to redeem costs for any
remedial or replacement work. Liability insurance and all that. The
Amendments
to Part P of the building regulations only reinforce this requirement. It
won't
stop anyone doing their homers at the weekends.

What do you mean it won't stop homers at the weekend, that's exactly what it
does. No one including sparkys can do hone electrical work with out part p
certification or building control.



I'm not a sparky so don't think I am standing up for them only, but if a
qualified sparkly cant do their own electronics what is this nanny state
coming to.



I agree with another poster that a minimal test should be put in place ,
where the local councils to allow DIYers (and non part p sparkys) to do work
on their own home, or that of friend but as long as no free is charged.






The need for electricians to register for self testing and certifying of
their
work is only bringing them more in to line with other trades likes gas
fitters
and the likes.
I believe that you don't need to be corgi registered to do your own gas
work, just "competent" but that's another argument.





So why the sparkys are all shunning this registration,



How about approx £ 1000 pounds costs in the first year,


Joining fees, exam fees, calibrated and certified 16th Edition test kit.
Easily £1000.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In article
.uk, Ed
Sirett wrote:
Joining fees, exam fees, calibrated and certified 16th
Edition test kit. Easily £1000.

Arguably though (I know reality is otherwise), if you are in
business as an electrician you should already have the last of
these.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Bob Eager" wrote
| I see that B&Q have a small notice by the electrical bits...saying
| you should consult Building Control or look at the ODPM website.

I shall have to look for that next time I'm in a (Scottish) B&Q ...

Owain

Owain wrote:
"Bob Eager" wrote
| I see that B&Q have a small notice by the electrical bits...saying
| you should consult Building Control or look at the ODPM website.

I shall have to look for that next time I'm in a (Scottish) B&Q ...

Is it still called 'Part P' in Scotland? The scotland.gov.uk search
engine failed to reveal it.


--
Ian White
Abingdon, England

In article ,
Ian White writes:
Owain wrote:
"Bob Eager" wrote
| I see that B&Q have a small notice by the electrical bits...saying
| you should consult Building Control or look at the ODPM website.

I shall have to look for that next time I'm in a (Scottish) B&Q ...

Is it still called 'Part P' in Scotland? The scotland.gov.uk search
engine failed to reveal it.

The Scottish part letters are out of sync with the English/Welsh ones,
e.g. I think English Part L is Scottish Part J, or some such. Scotland
did their Part P equivalent perhaps 4 years ago, but it doesn't have
all the inappropriate bureaucarcy and is stunningly sensible in
comparison. Can't remember what Scottish part it comes under, sorry.
The Scottish BCO I talked to during the Part P consultation seemed to
think theirs worked well, and thought Part P was completely barmey and
unworkable (as did my local English BCO).

--
Andrew Gabriel

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 11:07:10 GMT, Tony Bryer
strung together this:

In article
o.uk, Ed
Sirett wrote:
Joining fees, exam fees, calibrated and certified 16th
Edition test kit. Easily £1000.

Arguably though (I know reality is otherwise), if you are in
business as an electrician you should already have the last of
these.

Not the joining and exam fees.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 11:07:10 +0000, Tony Bryer wrote:

In article
.uk, Ed
Sirett wrote:
Joining fees, exam fees, calibrated and certified 16th
Edition test kit. Easily £1000.

Arguably though (I know reality is otherwise), if you are in
business as an electrician you should already have the last of
these.

Yes but not 'certified', they could be a bit out but more than a few
percent I would think.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ian White" wrote
| | I see that B&Q have a small notice by the electrical bits...saying
| | you should consult Building Control or look at the ODPM website.
| I shall have to look for that next time I'm in a (Scottish) B&Q ...
| Is it still called 'Part P' in Scotland? The scotland.gov.uk search
| engine failed to reveal it.

It doesn't exist in Scotland, so isn't called anything. The equivalent is
Part N:

N2.1* An electrical installation must be constructed, installed and
protected to minimise the risk of fire in the building or elsewhere.
In normal operation, taking into account the surroundings, it must not
create the risk of burns, shock or other injury to people.
It must -
a. safely accommodate any likely maximum demand;
b. incorporate suitable automatic devices for protection against
overcurrent or leakage; and
c. have switches, or other means of isolating parts of the installation
or equipment connected to it, as are necessary for safe working and
maintenance.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/br/brn-03.asp#n2

And in the Technical Standards:

(N2.1) The requirements of N2.1 will be met where an installation complies
with the relevant requirements of BS7671: 1992.

This does not restrict the housholder to IEE Regs as long as he can
demonstrate an equivalent alternative way of complying with the legislation.

At the moment.

The IEE Wiring Matters magazine was insinuating there'll be a similar scheme
in Scotland soon, as it's such a good idea.

Owain

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 22:46:37 -0000, "Owain" wrote:

"Ian White" wrote
| | I see that B&Q have a small notice by the electrical bits...saying
| | you should consult Building Control or look at the ODPM website.
| I shall have to look for that next time I'm in a (Scottish) B&Q ...
| Is it still called 'Part P' in Scotland? The scotland.gov.uk search
| engine failed to reveal it.

It doesn't exist in Scotland, so isn't called anything. The equivalent is
Part N:

N2.1* An electrical installation must be constructed, installed and
protected to minimise the risk of fire in the building or elsewhere.
In normal operation, taking into account the surroundings, it must not
create the risk of burns, shock or other injury to people.
It must -
a. safely accommodate any likely maximum demand;
b. incorporate suitable automatic devices for protection against
overcurrent or leakage; and
c. have switches, or other means of isolating parts of the installation
or equipment connected to it, as are necessary for safe working and
maintenance.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/br/brn-03.asp#n2

And in the Technical Standards:

(N2.1) The requirements of N2.1 will be met where an installation complies
with the relevant requirements of BS7671: 1992.

This does not restrict the housholder to IEE Regs as long as he can
demonstrate an equivalent alternative way of complying with the legislation.

At the moment.

The IEE Wiring Matters magazine was insinuating there'll be a similar scheme
in Scotland soon, as it's such a good idea.

Lets just hope they wait and see the increase in deaths and injuries part P will inevitably cause.
Have you seen how crappy most extension leads you can but on the high street are these days..?

"Owain" wrote in message
...
"Ian White" wrote
| | I see that B&Q have a small notice by the electrical bits...saying
| | you should consult Building Control or look at the ODPM website.
| I shall have to look for that next time I'm in a (Scottish) B&Q ...
| Is it still called 'Part P' in Scotland? The scotland.gov.uk search
| engine failed to reveal it.

It doesn't exist in Scotland, so isn't called anything. The equivalent is
Part N:

N2.1* An electrical installation must be constructed, installed and
protected to minimise the risk of fire in the building or elsewhere.
In normal operation, taking into account the surroundings, it must not
create the risk of burns, shock or other injury to people.
It must -
a. safely accommodate any likely maximum demand;
b. incorporate suitable automatic devices for protection against
overcurrent or leakage; and
c. have switches, or other means of isolating parts of the
installation
or equipment connected to it, as are necessary for safe working and
maintenance.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/br/brn-03.asp#n2

And in the Technical Standards:

(N2.1) The requirements of N2.1 will be met where an installation complies
with the relevant requirements of BS7671: 1992.

This does not restrict the housholder to IEE Regs as long as he can
demonstrate an equivalent alternative way of complying with the
legislation.


That's an interesting point actually. If I wanted to wire my house to the
German standards (definitely a higher quality solution) surely EU
regulations prohibit anybody stopping me.

In article ,
"Mike" writes:

That's an interesting point actually. If I wanted to wire my house to the
German standards (definitely a higher quality solution) surely EU
regulations prohibit anybody stopping me.

I think that might be right, providing it is a national standard which
has been brought in line with the EU harmonised standard, as BS7671 has
(there was a vague hint at this somewhere in the Part P consultation).
Certainly, France doesn't seem to object to ex-pats/holiday homes
who've wired the houses as per BS7671.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Mike" writes:

That's an interesting point actually. If I wanted to wire my house to
the
German standards (definitely a higher quality solution) surely EU
regulations prohibit anybody stopping me.

I think that might be right, providing it is a national standard which
has been brought in line with the EU harmonised standard, as BS7671 has
(there was a vague hint at this somewhere in the Part P consultation).
Certainly, France doesn't seem to object to ex-pats/holiday homes
who've wired the houses as per BS7671.

Well if I don't finish before April and it is confirmed that I do have to
get them in even though I started before Part P was a twinkle in some
bureaucrats eye, I think I'll shove in a few continental sockets on
dedicated radials from the CU to see what they say.

Perhaps I'll even leave the earth off one and call it an Italian socket :-)

I'm corgi reg'd and our heads are in a spin with this. Last discussion I had with corgi was "plug your boilers into a 3 pin socket that already exixts and use a wireless thermostat". There's going to be a hell of a lot of wander leeds running up through the loft hatch....

Fitted a replacement domestic hot weater cylinder (what most people seem to call their boiler) as an emergency yesterday. She didn't previously have an immersion heater, and no way she's getting one from me, and all the sparky's in our town are smuggly turning down any of this kind of work I offer them.

s'pose I'll just have to bang boilers on the wall, pipe up the gas, tightness test and then say to customer, let me know when you've found a sparky to give it a shock and I'll come back to commission it.

Customer looks like the looser once again.

What the heck why should I buy a grands worth of electrical test gear when I already spend that kind of money frequently in my own trade... flue gas analyser... powerflush...

In article ,
Paul Barker writes:

Fitted a replacement domestic hot weater cylinder (what most people
seem to call their boiler) as an emergency yesterday. She didn't
previously have an immersion heater, and no way she's getting one from
me, and all the sparky's in our town are smuggly turning down any of
this kind of work I offer them.

s'pose I'll just have to bang boilers on the wall, pipe up the gas,
tightness test and then say to customer, let me know when you've found
a sparky to give it a shock and I'll come back to commission it.

Customer looks like the looser once again.

What the heck why should I buy a grands worth of electrical test gear
when I already spend that kind of money frequently in my own trade...
flue gas analyser... powerflush...

I was in a wholesalers yesterday trying to buy a T5 fluorescent tube.
There were two electricians ahead of me in the queue, and Part P was
the topic of discussion. Both have now dropped all domestic work, and
have already found themselves fully booked up with commercial work
for many weeks. One was buying lots of modular ceiling lighting with
which he was obviously not too familiar, the other was buying parts
to relamp a car park. I imagine they both used to do immersion heaters...

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Mike Harrison" wrote
| The IEE Wiring Matters magazine was insinuating there'll be a similar
| scheme in Scotland soon, as it's such a good idea.
| Lets just hope they wait and see the increase in deaths and injuries part
P
| will inevitably cause.

AIUI formulation of new B Regs for Scotland has been
delegated/devolved/handswashed of down to a Body rather than being left in
the hands of elected representatives. Given the Scottish Parliament's
delight in smothering the population in cotton wool, I'm sure the "if it
saves just wan wean" argument will prevail.

| Have you seen how crappy most extension leads you can but on the
| high street are these days..?

I think Tesco has 4-way strips furra pound. Being Tesco I'm hope they're not
crap.

Owain

"Mike" wrote
| Well if I don't finish before April and it is confirmed that I do
| have to get them in even though I started before Part P was a
| twinkle in some bureaucrats eye, I think I'll shove in a few
| continental sockets on dedicated radials from the CU to see what
| they say.
| Perhaps I'll even leave the earth off one and call it an Italian socket
:-)

three-phase electric shower in the bathroom? :-)

Owain

"Paul Barker" wrote in message
...

I'm corgi reg'd and our heads are in a spin with this. Last discussion I
had with corgi was "plug your boilers into a 3 pin socket that already
exixts and use a wireless thermostat". There's going to be a hell of a
lot of wander leeds running up through the loft hatch....

Fitted a replacement domestic hot weater cylinder (what most people
seem to call their boiler) as an emergency yesterday. She didn't
previously have an immersion heater, and no way she's getting one from
me, and all the sparky's in our town are smuggly turning down any of
this kind of work I offer them.

s'pose I'll just have to bang boilers on the wall, pipe up the gas,
tightness test and then say to customer, let me know when you've found
a sparky to give it a shock and I'll come back to commission it.

Customer looks like the looser once again.

What the heck why should I buy a grands worth of electrical test gear
when I already spend that kind of money frequently in my own trade...
flue gas analyser... powerflush...


Haven't you kept up to date with the latest crazy ideas? CORGI and OFTEC
registered installers will be able to take an addendum to their assessment
certification which entitles them to "install an additional socket"
presumably to serve a new boiler location but AFAIK there still isn't a
definition about by who and how the thermostat controls wiring is installed.
It really is a monumental cock-up that only Prescott and his department
could have produced.
It beats me why the general public still haven't picked up on all this and
started to kick up a stink about the blundering mess.

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:14:49 -0000, "Owain" wrote:

"Mike Harrison" wrote
| The IEE Wiring Matters magazine was insinuating there'll be a similar
| scheme in Scotland soon, as it's such a good idea.
| Lets just hope they wait and see the increase in deaths and injuries part
P
| will inevitably cause.

AIUI formulation of new B Regs for Scotland has been
delegated/devolved/handswashed of down to a Body rather than being left in
the hands of elected representatives. Given the Scottish Parliament's
delight in smothering the population in cotton wool, I'm sure the "if it
saves just wan wean" argument will prevail.

| Have you seen how crappy most extension leads you can but on the
| high street are these days..?

I think Tesco has 4-way strips furra pound. Being Tesco I'm hope they're not
crap.
Yeah, right. I'd never trust a cheapo strip to carry 13A without melting. I saw one recently which
very nearly caused a fire - it was only quick thinking by the user that stopped it.
..

Owain wrote:
| The IEE Wiring Matters magazine was insinuating there'll be a similar
| scheme in Scotland soon, as it's such a good idea.
| Lets just hope they wait and see the increase in deaths and injuries part
P
| will inevitably cause.

AIUI formulation of new B Regs for Scotland has been
delegated/devolved/handswashed of down to a Body rather than being left
in the hands of elected representatives. Given the Scottish
Parliament's delight in smothering the population in cotton wool, I'm
sure the "if it saves just wan wean" argument will prevail.

Thanks for the information, Owain.

Not good in the long term, then, but there's still a grace period before
Part whatever-it-is arrives in Scotland. Well, that's kind of good news
(see sig).


--
Ian White
Abingdon, England... but not for much longer.

Mike Harrison wrote:


I think Tesco has 4-way strips furra pound. Being Tesco I'm hope they're not
crap.

Yeah, right. I'd never trust a cheapo strip to carry 13A without melting. I saw one recently which
very nearly caused a fire - it was only quick thinking by the user that stopped it.
.

And the relevance to Part Pee is what, exactly?

Part taking-the-Pee only affects *fixed* wiring - y'know, good ol'
single-core 2.5mmsq T&E running behind the sockets. Nothing at all to do
with the appliances wot get plugged in. Even though they're the majority
cause of electrical fatalities and injuries...

Actually there *is* a link to Part-taking-the-Pee. Adding sockets to an
existing circuit happens to be non-notifiable, unless it's in a kitchen,
but there's little chance NICEIC scare-mongering and B&Q disclaimers
will make that clear. So some people will prefer to plug in several
cheap-n-nasty multiways, rather'n adding "proper" socketses.

Still, it won't bother Johnny "two nannies" Prescott, will it? (Or
should that be David "two nannies and a visa each" Blunkett"? ;-)

On 6 Jan 2005 10:58:29 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) strung together this:

I was in a wholesalers yesterday trying to buy a T5 fluorescent tube.
There were two electricians ahead of me in the queue, and Part P was
the topic of discussion. Both have now dropped all domestic work, and
have already found themselves fully booked up with commercial work
for many weeks. One was buying lots of modular ceiling lighting with
which he was obviously not too familiar, the other was buying parts
to relamp a car park. I imagine they both used to do immersion heaters...

And people wonder why I don't want to be an electrician anymore. Part
P just seem to be moving the bodgy billy's around a bit.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Paul Barker" wrote in message
...

I'm corgi reg'd and our heads are in a spin with this. Last discussion I
had with corgi was "plug your boilers into a 3 pin socket that already
exixts and use a wireless thermostat". There's going to be a hell of a
lot of wander leeds running up through the loft hatch....

Fitted a replacement domestic hot weater cylinder (what most people
seem to call their boiler) as an emergency yesterday. She didn't
previously have an immersion heater, and no way she's getting one from
me, and all the sparky's in our town are smuggly turning down any of
this kind of work I offer them.

s'pose I'll just have to bang boilers on the wall, pipe up the gas,
tightness test and then say to customer, let me know when you've found
a sparky to give it a shock and I'll come back to commission it.

If you fit boilers then you will have to be league with an electrician to
have the job done all at the same time.

Customer looks like the looser once again.

What the heck why should I buy a grands worth of electrical test gear
when I already spend that kind of money frequently in my own trade...
flue gas analyser... powerflush...

Because the law says so. I believe there may be an electrical course/test
for various trades, so they can install electrical wiring.

Owain wrote:

"Mike" wrote
| Well if I don't finish before April and it is confirmed that I do
| have to get them in even though I started before Part P was a
| twinkle in some bureaucrats eye, I think I'll shove in a few
| continental sockets on dedicated radials from the CU to see what
| they say.
| Perhaps I'll even leave the earth off one and call it an Italian socket
:-)

three-phase electric shower in the bathroom? :-)

Might be the way to go to get one that is worth having ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

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