On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:52:01 -0000, "Dave Jones"
wrote:


"PG" wrote in message
...
Although I'm not a qualified electrician, I've done a fair bit of
extra wiring in my house: extra sockets plus a 6mm feed to an electric
shower and a 6mm feed to a cooker, etc. I did it all myself and it has
proved 100% satisfactory.

Do such mods nowadays have to, by law, be done by a qualified
electrician and/or done with buildings control approval?

From 1st Jan 2005 yes, but if already started must be complete by 31st March
2005

That's interesting. I *have* already started the work and I anticipate
completing it by 31st March. Where will I stand after 31st of March?
Will I need a certificate of conformity of any sort or not? Must I get
the chocolate blocks exchanged for covered junction boxes if I finish
the work by 31st March?

Thanks to the other respondees.

PG

Although I'm not a qualified electrician, I've done a fair bit of
extra wiring in my house: extra sockets plus a 6mm feed to an electric
shower and a 6mm feed to a cooker, etc. I did it all myself and it has
proved 100% satisfactory.

Do such mods nowadays have to, by law, be done by a qualified
electrician and/or done with buildings control approval?

The house is split into two flats and I now want to split the cirquit
into two: one for each flat. If I do it all myself, will I encounter
problems when selling the property soon afterwards?

I should also mention that when I bought the house in 1990, the wiring
looked a bit amateurish to start with: the under-floor connections had
all been done with 'chocolate blocks' for example. However, I've never
had a problem with any of it.

Thanks for any clarification.

PG

Do such mods nowadays have to, by law, be done by a qualified
electrician and/or done with buildings control approval?

It is "or". You can, therefore, do the work.

the under-floor connections had all been done with 'chocolate blocks'
for example.

You will need to replace the chocolate blocks with crimps or accessible
insulated junction boxes if you want the building control approval granted.
There may be other things that need to be brought up to spec if there are
bodges like this.

I assume you have planning permission to split into flats? There are also
lots of other building regulations issues, such as noise and fire safety,
which can be quite onerous to achieve.

Christian.

"PG" wrote in message
...
Although I'm not a qualified electrician, I've done a fair bit of
extra wiring in my house: extra sockets plus a 6mm feed to an electric
shower and a 6mm feed to a cooker, etc. I did it all myself and it has
proved 100% satisfactory.

Do such mods nowadays have to, by law, be done by a qualified
electrician and/or done with buildings control approval?

From 1st Jan 2005 yes, but if already started must be complete by 31st March
2005

In article ,
PG wrote:
I should also mention that when I bought the house in 1990, the wiring
looked a bit amateurish to start with: the under-floor connections had
all been done with 'chocolate blocks' for example. However, I've never
had a problem with any of it.

This doesn't conform to existing regs - nor IMHO has it ever. Connections
have always been done within some form of enclosure. At least for the last
50 years - and certainly since PVC cable arrived.

--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

looked a bit amateurish to start with: the under-floor connections
had
all been done with 'chocolate blocks' for example. However, I've
never
had a problem with any of it.

This doesn't conform to existing regs - nor IMHO has it ever.
Connections
have always been done within some form of enclosure. At least for the
last
50 years - and certainly since PVC cable arrived.


don't "chocolate blocks" (I assume the OP mean "boxes" not "blocks")
count as an enclosure ?
if not ten what else should I use to extend cables ?

thanks
LJ

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:14:20 -0000, "in2minds" wrote:

looked a bit amateurish to start with: the under-floor connections
had
all been done with 'chocolate blocks' for example. However, I've
never
had a problem with any of it.

This doesn't conform to existing regs - nor IMHO has it ever.
Connections
have always been done within some form of enclosure. At least for the
last
50 years - and certainly since PVC cable arrived.


don't "chocolate blocks" (I assume the OP mean "boxes" not "blocks")
count as an enclosure ?

They are not very enclosed

if not ten what else should I use to extend cables ?

Junction boxes - e.g. the round ones where you rotate the top to get the required number of entries.

In article ,
in2minds wrote:
don't "chocolate blocks" (I assume the OP mean "boxes" not "blocks")
count as an enclosure ?

No, because at that point the cable only has one layer of insulation for
protection - the outer sheath has been removed.

if not ten what else should I use to extend cables ?

A junction box is the usual way. However, if you wish to use choc blocks,
you could simply put them and the cable inside a suitable box. 'Adaptable'
boxes - available from your wholesaler would be ideal.

--
*My designated driver drove me to drink

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

don't "chocolate blocks" (I assume the OP mean "boxes" not "blocks")
count as an enclosure ?

No, because at that point the cable only has one layer of insulation
for
protection - the outer sheath has been removed.

if not ten what else should I use to extend cables ?

A junction box is the usual way. However, if you wish to use choc
blocks,
you could simply put them and the cable inside a suitable box.
'Adaptable'
boxes - available from your wholesaler would be ideal.


ahhhhh... that's where the confusion comes in, I refer to junction boxes
(with the twisting top) as chocolate boxes (because they're usually
brown although lately I've only been able to get white).

LJ

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
in2minds wrote:


ahhhhh... that's where the confusion comes in, I refer to junction
boxes (with the twisting top) as chocolate boxes (because they're
usually brown although lately I've only been able to get white).

LJ

Whereas chocolate *blocks* are the long strip connectors which you cut up
into shorter sections depending on how many connections are required.
Connections made using these are not enclosed unless you put the whole thing
inside a container of some sort.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

In article ,
in2minds wrote:
ahhhhh... that's where the confusion comes in, I refer to junction boxes
(with the twisting top) as chocolate boxes (because they're usually
brown although lately I've only been able to get white).

Easy then. Stop doing it.

--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"in2minds" wrote in message
...
looked a bit amateurish to start with: the under-floor connections
had
all been done with 'chocolate blocks' for example. However, I've
never
had a problem with any of it.

This doesn't conform to existing regs - nor IMHO has it ever.
Connections
have always been done within some form of enclosure. At least for the
last
50 years - and certainly since PVC cable arrived.


don't "chocolate blocks" (I assume the OP mean "boxes" not "blocks")
count as an enclosure ?
if not ten what else should I use to extend cables ?


You can buy a clear plastic oblong case that snap closes around choccy
blocks so then comply.

TLC sell them.

"Dave Jones" wrote in message
...

"PG" wrote in message
...
Although I'm not a qualified electrician, I've done a fair bit of
extra wiring in my house: extra sockets plus a 6mm feed to an electric
shower and a 6mm feed to a cooker, etc. I did it all myself and it has
proved 100% satisfactory.

Do such mods nowadays have to, by law, be done by a qualified
electrician and/or done with buildings control approval?

From 1st Jan 2005 yes, but if already started must be complete by 31st
March
2005

Woah there. Where did the second half creep in ? For all other work the
relevant building regs are those at the date of application. I thought if
started then there was no limit on Part P either ?

Mike wrote:

Woah there. Where did the second half creep in ? For all other work the
relevant building regs are those at the date of application. I thought if
started then there was no limit on Part P either ?

But if you've started without making an application (because you didn't
*need* to apply at the time you started) then what?

On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:25:45 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Mike wrote:

Woah there. Where did the second half creep in ? For all other work the
relevant building regs are those at the date of application. I thought if
started then there was no limit on Part P either ?

But if you've started without making an application (because you didn't
*need* to apply at the time you started) then what?


You've started, so you can finish. As long as it is by the end of
March




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:25:45 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Mike wrote:

Woah there. Where did the second half creep in ? For all other work
the
relevant building regs are those at the date of application. I thought
if
started then there was no limit on Part P either ?

But if you've started without making an application (because you didn't
*need* to apply at the time you started) then what?


You've started, so you can finish. As long as it is by the end of
March

My renovation won't be finished for several years. A building notice was
submitted two years ago and we've had several visits for structural work but
obviously this had no mention of electrics as these weren't covered then.
What then ?

Sigh. Someone ought to write a summary of Part P for the FAQ - this
question's going to be Aed quite F in the next few weeks, and will recur
even after then at a somewhat lower F, I'd guess.

Any takers?

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:06:36 +0000 (UTC), "Rick Hughes"
strung together this:

You can buy a clear plastic oblong case that snap closes around choccy
blocks so then comply.

Although the exposed cores within a twin and earth, not the
conductors, need to be pretty short to fit inside one correctly, which
it's unlikely that any connections under a floor will be made this
tightly so you'll have to redo it anyway. While you're at it you may
as well put a junction box on and do it properly.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 21:06:36 +0000 (UTC), "Rick Hughes"
strung together this:

You can buy a clear plastic oblong case that snap closes around choccy
blocks so then comply.

Although the exposed cores within a twin and earth, not the
conductors, need to be pretty short to fit inside one correctly, which
it's unlikely that any connections under a floor will be made this
tightly so you'll have to redo it anyway. While you're at it you may
as well put a junction box on and do it properly.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

We use chox boxes all the time so we dont have to carry loads of different
types of jb.

--
Regards



Stephen Dawson
Director


Fox Electrical Services Ltd
34 Portchester Rd
Portsmouth
PO2 7JB
Tel 02392 615142
Fax 02392 661931
Mobile 07970 940637

"Stephen Dawson" wrote
| "Lurch" wrote
| We use chox boxes all the time so we dont have to carry loads of different
| types of jb.

You could do the same with cable and wire everything in 25mm tails :-)

| Stephen Dawson
| Director
| Fox Electrical Services Ltd
| 34 Portchester Rd
| Portsmouth
| PO2 7JB
| Tel 02392 615142
| Fax 02392 661931

I thought all numbers in 02x were three-digit code and eight-digit local
number? Does dialling 615142 when in the 02393 'area' actually get you a
connection?

Owain

Owain wrote:

I thought all numbers in 02x were three-digit code and eight-digit local
number?

Yo're right, it should be presented as 023 9261 5142

Does dialling 615142 when in the 02393 'area' actually get you a
connection?

Not to his company, and it probably doesn't even in the 02392 area either!

Owain wrote:

I thought all numbers in 02x were three-digit code and eight-digit local
number?

You're right, it should be presented as 023 9261 5142

Does dialling 615142 when in the 02393 'area' actually get you a
connection?

Not to his company, and it probably doesn't even when dialled from the
02392 'area' ...

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 15:48:26 -0000, "Owain"
strung together this:

| "Lurch" wrote

Erm, I didn't actually.

I thought all numbers in 02x were three-digit code and eight-digit local
number? Does dialling 615142 when in the 02393 'area' actually get you a
connection?

Yep, the area code is 023. Some people get confused with area codes.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Owain" wrote in message
. ..
| Stephen Dawson
| Director
| Fox Electrical Services Ltd
| 34 Portchester Rd
| Portsmouth
| PO2 7JB
| Tel 02392 615142
| Fax 02392 661931

I thought all numbers in 02x were three-digit code and eight-digit local
number? Does dialling 615142 when in the 02393 'area' actually get you a
connection?

In my area 01376 I can dial the last six numbers directly, to dial the local
PizzaHut I dial 528 263 and gets connected straight away, it doesn't work on
the last 3 only though :-)


/Morten

Who just revealed that he frequents the Pizza Hut in Braintree, Essex and
has their number on quick call :-)






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.825 / Virus Database: 563 - Release Date: 30/12/2004

"Morten" wrote
| | Tel 02392 615142
| I thought all numbers in 02x were three-digit code and eight-digit local
| number? Does dialling 615142 when in the 02393 'area' actually get you a
| connection?
| In my area 01376 I can dial the last six numbers directly, to dial the
local
| PizzaHut I dial 528 263 and gets connected straight away, it doesn't work
on
| the last 3 only though :-)

That is because you have a six-digit local number. It wouldn't work if you
had your number shown as 013765 28263

| Who just revealed that he frequents the Pizza Hut in Braintree, Essex and
| has their number on quick call :-)

Speed dial is the greatest food preparation device invented.

Owain

[1] All apart from the few remaining 5-digit local numbers which will be
made up to 6-digits 'real soon now'

Morten wrote:

In my area 01376 I can dial the last six numbers directly, to dial the local
PizzaHut I dial 528 263 and gets connected straight away

Well yes, that's correct dialing within an area code, your area code
isn't 013 it is 01376, the OP has an area code of 023 but incorrectly
shows it as 02393 ...

In message , Morten
writes

"Owain" wrote in message
...
| Stephen Dawson
| Director
| Fox Electrical Services Ltd
| 34 Portchester Rd
| Portsmouth
| PO2 7JB
| Tel 02392 615142
| Fax 02392 661931

I thought all numbers in 02x were three-digit code and eight-digit local
number? Does dialling 615142 when in the 02393 'area' actually get you a
connection?

In my area 01376 I can dial the last six numbers directly, to dial the local
PizzaHut I dial 528 263 and gets connected straight away, it doesn't work on
the last 3 only though :-)


/Morten

Who just revealed that he frequents the Pizza Hut in Braintree, Essex and
has their number on quick call :-)

How sad is that?

--
geoff

Apologies if this has been explained before,
but what exactly constitutes "house wiring"?
(I'm not affected by the law, but am interested in its ramifications.)

Suppose I add a spur to a power socket?
Or replace a ceiling rose?
Do these count?
Or is it just a major rewiring, involving new ring circuits?

--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Timothy Murphy wrote:

Suppose I add a spur to a power socket?
Or replace a ceiling rose?
Do these count?

If not in kitchen/bathroom you're still allowed to do this type of work,
subject to comptency and regs e.g. the spur must feed direct from the
ring or from an already fused spur.

Or is it just a major rewiring, involving new ring circuits?

Essentially yes.

See the documents from the ODPM website, they're fairly readable ...

Andy Burns wrote:
Timothy Murphy wrote:

Suppose I add a spur to a power socket?
Or replace a ceiling rose?
Do these count?

If not in kitchen/bathroom you're still allowed to do this type of
work, subject to comptency and regs e.g. the spur must feed direct from
the ring or from an already fused spur.

Or is it just a major rewiring, involving new ring circuits?

Essentially yes.

See the documents from the ODPM website, they're fairly readable ...

Yes, do. The ONLY authoritative source about Part P, is Part P itself,
including all amendments to date.

Original:
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...nts/page/odpm_
breg_029960.pdf

Amendments (tnx, Andy):
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...nts/page/odpm_
breg_033693.pdf

The ODPM are too idle to produce a version that includes the most recent
amendments, so there's another DIY job for us to do...

Much as we'd all like to try, any attempts to summarise or rationalise
the actual content of Part P into a newsgroup message are doomed to
fail. So please, let's all download it, and then talk about what it
*actually* says.


--
Ian White
Abingdon, England

Owain wrote:

Speed dial is the greatest food preparation device invented.

What even better than the old Washing, Ironing, Food, Etc. ?

(ducks and runs for cover)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
Owain wrote:

Speed dial is the greatest food preparation device invented.

What even better than the old Washing, Ironing, Food, Etc. ?

(ducks and runs for cover)

Crispy duck ?

--
geoff

"Timothy Murphy" wrote in message
...
Apologies if this has been explained before,
but what exactly constitutes "house wiring"?

(I'm not affected by the law, but am interested in its ramifications.)
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Ah, the only way to get away from Prescott and Part P !!!!

Mind you, C4's "A Place in the Sun special" tonight looked quite inviting if
Tony's brigade get back in next May

Ian White wrote:

Or is it just a major rewiring, involving new ring circuits?

Essentially yes.

See the documents from the ODPM website, they're fairly readable ...

Yes, do. The ONLY authoritative source about Part P, is Part P itself,
including all amendments to date.

Original:
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...nts/page/odpm_
breg_029960.pdf

Amendments (tnx, Andy):
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...nts/page/odpm_
breg_033693.pdf

Thanks for the pointers.

I didn't find the first document too easy to plumb.
It seemed to me a bit diffuse to be the basis for legislation.
I found the second, short, document much clearer -
by saying what _was_ allowed it made pretty clear what was not allowed.

I wonder if work by unqualified electricians is
a significant source of accidents?
I would not have thought most "handymen" would attempt major electrical work
unless they knew what they were doing.

The only really dangerous work I've ever come across
was actually done by professional electricians.
(They connected the live and earth wires the wrong way round at some point.)




--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Timothy Murphy wrote:

I didn't find the first document too easy to plumb.
It seemed to me a bit diffuse to be the basis for legislation.

I think the actual legislation enables part P to be implemented as a
statutory instrument, so part P itself isn't in legalese, it would be
*really* difficult to read then ...

In message , Ian White
writes
Yes, do. The ONLY authoritative source about Part P, is Part P itself,
including all amendments to date.

Original:
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...nts/page/odpm_
breg_029960.pdf

Amendments (tnx, Andy):
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...nts/page/odpm_
breg_033693.pdf

The 'original' is OK but can't get the 'amendments', 404 not found, any
other pointers?

MTIA


--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

bof wrote:

The 'original' is OK but can't get the 'amendments', 404 not found, any
other pointers?

From here there are links to three different versions of it, one PDF
and one MS Word at the top of the page and another PDF at the bottom.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_buildreg/documents/page/odpm_breg_033862.hcsp

HTH
--
Andy

In message , Andy Wade
writes
bof wrote:

The 'original' is OK but can't get the 'amendments', 404 not found,
any other pointers?

From here there are links to three different versions of it, one PDF
and one MS Word at the top of the page and another PDF at the bottom.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...ments/page/odp
m_breg_033862.hcsp

HTH

It does, thanks.

This is the direct link:

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...ents/downloada
ble/odpm_breg_033693.pdf

--
bof at bof dot me dot uk

bof wrote:
In message , Ian White
writes
Yes, do. The ONLY authoritative source about Part P, is Part P itself,
including all amendments to date.

Original:
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...nts/page/odpm_
breg_029960.pdf

The 'original' is OK but can't get the 'amendments', 404 not found, any
other pointers?

That nice Mr Prescott seems to have changed it:
http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/grou...nts/pdf/odpm_b
reg_pdf_033862.pdf (all one line, of course)

The main amendments are to Table 1: Work that need not be notified to
building control bodies; and to Table 2: Special locations and
installations... both of which have significant effects on DIY.

Thanks again to Andy Wade for posting that the original Approved
Document P had been amended.


--
Ian White
Abingdon, England