I'm flushing my 4 year old CH system and wondered about the best way to
ensure a complete flush of the chemicals and grot before refilling with
fresh water and inhibitor.

Should I drain from one point while feeding fresh water in from another,
distant, drain point using my garden hose?

Due to the construction of my house, all downstairs rads are fed from
the room above and are equipped with drain points.

Or to be really thorough, should I flush from each ground floor rad in turn?

TIA

Richard

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:09:48 +0100, Richard Savage
wrote:

I'm flushing my 4 year old CH system and wondered about the best way to
ensure a complete flush of the chemicals and grot before refilling with
fresh water and inhibitor.

Should I drain from one point while feeding fresh water in from another,
distant, drain point using my garden hose?

Due to the construction of my house, all downstairs rads are fed from
the room above and are equipped with drain points.

Or to be really thorough, should I flush from each ground floor rad in turn?

TIA

Richard



You haven't said whether the system is sealed or open vented.

I've posted a suggested method a few times of really thorough cleaning
involving taking radiators outside and pressure washing through them.

You don't necessarily need to go to these lengths. but I would at
least flush through at each ground floor radiator if you can.

Remember that heating water containing iron is an indellible dye on
carpets and other things


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Richard Savage" wrote in message
...
I'm flushing my 4 year old CH system and wondered about the best way to
ensure a complete flush of the chemicals and grot before refilling with
fresh water and inhibitor.

Should I drain from one point while feeding fresh water in from another,
distant, drain point using my garden hose?

Due to the construction of my house, all downstairs rads are fed from
the room above and are equipped with drain points.

Or to be really thorough, should I flush from each ground floor rad in
turn?

TIA

Richard



First of all 4 years is a bit soon to require a flush unless something is
wrong with the installation, that said.....
drain the system enough to get your flush agent in then run the system
normally for a week or so. This ensures it gets to every part of the system.
Drain your system with the header tank still filling and if you can balance
the fill/drain have the pump running but I would recommend turning the
boiler stat off. Keep the rad that your draining from and the one above it
open but the others off, go round all the drain points and do the same.
You cant beat a flush machine because you can reverse the flow of water
through each rad, I'm sure you can hire these by now.
turn of all other rads apart from the

MIKE THORNE wrote:

First of all 4 years is a bit soon to require a flush unless something is
wrong with the installation, that said.....
drain the system enough to get your flush agent in then run the system
normally for a week or so. This ensures it gets to every part of the system.
Drain your system with the header tank still filling and if you can balance
the fill/drain have the pump running but I would recommend turning the
boiler stat off. Keep the rad that your draining from and the one above it
open but the others off, go round all the drain points and do the same.
You cant beat a flush machine because you can reverse the flow of water
through each rad, I'm sure you can hire these by now.
turn of all other rads apart from the




Flushing has been prompted by the amount of black sludge revealed by the
installation of a Myson electric heating element into one of the towel
rads and the memory that the installing plumber said that he had not
added an inhibitor as he didn't think it necessary in a sealed system!

So, back to the original question (and bearing in mind the bit I left
out: namely that it is a sealed system), should I apply fresh water via
one of the drain points whilst draining from another (distant) drain
point? Flushing agent has been in for 2 weeks now and I have a
(frighteningly expensive) tube of Fernox inhibitor just waiting to be
inserted.

TIA

Richard

On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:54:24 +0100, Richard Savage
wrote:



MIKE THORNE wrote:

First of all 4 years is a bit soon to require a flush unless something is
wrong with the installation, that said.....
drain the system enough to get your flush agent in then run the system
normally for a week or so. This ensures it gets to every part of the system.
Drain your system with the header tank still filling and if you can balance
the fill/drain have the pump running but I would recommend turning the
boiler stat off. Keep the rad that your draining from and the one above it
open but the others off, go round all the drain points and do the same.
You cant beat a flush machine because you can reverse the flow of water
through each rad, I'm sure you can hire these by now.
turn of all other rads apart from the




Flushing has been prompted by the amount of black sludge revealed by the
installation of a Myson electric heating element into one of the towel
rads and the memory that the installing plumber said that he had not
added an inhibitor as he didn't think it necessary in a sealed system!

That's ********. It is necessary in both, although one can argue
that a sealed system doesn't import air like an open one does. Not
putting in inhibitor is laziness at best and incompetence and worst.



So, back to the original question (and bearing in mind the bit I left
out: namely that it is a sealed system), should I apply fresh water via
one of the drain points whilst draining from another (distant) drain
point? Flushing agent has been in for 2 weeks now and I have a
(frighteningly expensive) tube of Fernox inhibitor just waiting to be
inserted.

For a sealed system, the fresh water should go in via the filling
loop. Flush the system clean of flushing agent first.

Then I would inject the inhibitor into an empty radiator (don't follow
the instructions which suggest injecting against the pressure of the
system).

Now fill the system and vent where needed.

The £25 or so that you paid for the inhibitor is cheap in comparison
with the cost of remedial work if you don't use it.




TIA

Richard

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Hi Andy

Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:54:24 +0100, Richard Savage
wrote:



That's ********. It is necessary in both, although one can argue
that a sealed system doesn't import air like an open one does. Not
putting in inhibitor is laziness at best and incompetence and worst.



Quiet agree. Hence my urgent flush and inhibit task! He's no longer
my plumber and as he gets all his work by word of mouth I'm not
recommending him to anyone.

For a sealed system, the fresh water should go in via the filling
loop. Flush the system clean of flushing agent first.


That's what I decided to do (or rather am doing at present!) - drain
from the furthest point whilst introducing water through the filling loop.


Then I would inject the inhibitor into an empty radiator (don't follow
the instructions which suggest injecting against the pressure of the
system).

Now fill the system and vent where needed.

The £25 or so that you paid for the inhibitor is cheap in comparison
with the cost of remedial work if you don't use it.


I know, but shelling out nearly £100 for flush + inhibit now seems a lot
on its own. If the inhibitor had been included in the original price it
would have seemed insignificant. And I wouldn't have had all the fun
of trying to introduce flushing agent supplied in a 1l bottle into a
radiator - in the end I used an oil syringe and an adapted radiator
bleed plug.

Cheers Richard

On Mon, 03 May 2004 19:19:03 +0100, Richard Savage
wrote:

Hi Andy

Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:54:24 +0100, Richard Savage
wrote:



That's ********. It is necessary in both, although one can argue
that a sealed system doesn't import air like an open one does. Not
putting in inhibitor is laziness at best and incompetence and worst.



Quiet agree. Hence my urgent flush and inhibit task! He's no longer
my plumber and as he gets all his work by word of mouth I'm not
recommending him to anyone.

For a sealed system, the fresh water should go in via the filling
loop. Flush the system clean of flushing agent first.


That's what I decided to do (or rather am doing at present!) - drain
from the furthest point whilst introducing water through the filling loop.

Good. Try flushing out of as many drain points as you can.




Then I would inject the inhibitor into an empty radiator (don't follow
the instructions which suggest injecting against the pressure of the
system).

Now fill the system and vent where needed.

The £25 or so that you paid for the inhibitor is cheap in comparison
with the cost of remedial work if you don't use it.


I know, but shelling out nearly £100 for flush + inhibit now seems a lot
on its own. If the inhibitor had been included in the original price it
would have seemed insignificant. And I wouldn't have had all the fun
of trying to introduce flushing agent supplied in a 1l bottle into a
radiator - in the end I used an oil syringe and an adapted radiator
bleed plug.

That works too.

Another solution involves a plant sprayer with suitable fitments on
the lance to go onto the filling point. You can use liquid
chemicals with that and cover the cost in two hits of chemical.

Generally, inhibitor should be replenished after about three years
(you can test the water). If you compare with radiator and boiler
costs, it is not a lot.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:

That works too.

Another solution involves a plant sprayer with suitable fitments on
the lance to go onto the filling point. You can use liquid
chemicals with that and cover the cost in two hits of chemical.

Generally, inhibitor should be replenished after about three years
(you can test the water). If you compare with radiator and boiler
costs, it is not a lot.


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


Hi Andy,

Encouraging result so far - everything is flushed and refilled with
fresh water but no inhibitor as yet. The flexi hoses to my Kickspace
heater, which was disconnected during the period that the flushing
chemical was doing its thing and whose increasing lack of efficiency
sort of suggested the need for flushing, revealed a distressingly large
quantity of what can only be described as chunks of rust. I suppose I
should be glad that the very narrow pipes to the Kickspace caught the
debris. I had to rod them out with one strand from a bit of twin and
earth!!!

I think that I am going to reconnect the Kickspace and repeat the
flushing. What do you think?

I might also remove my towel rad which has a Myson electric element, I
suppose that could be restricting the flow enough to collect debris.
Although the towel rad has not lost any efficiency.

Cheers Richard

On Mon, 03 May 2004 20:44:23 +0100, Richard Savage
wrote:



Andy Hall wrote:

That works too.

Another solution involves a plant sprayer with suitable fitments on
the lance to go onto the filling point. You can use liquid
chemicals with that and cover the cost in two hits of chemical.

Generally, inhibitor should be replenished after about three years
(you can test the water). If you compare with radiator and boiler
costs, it is not a lot.


.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl


Hi Andy,

Encouraging result so far - everything is flushed and refilled with
fresh water but no inhibitor as yet. The flexi hoses to my Kickspace
heater, which was disconnected during the period that the flushing
chemical was doing its thing and whose increasing lack of efficiency
sort of suggested the need for flushing, revealed a distressingly large
quantity of what can only be described as chunks of rust. I suppose I
should be glad that the very narrow pipes to the Kickspace caught the
debris. I had to rod them out with one strand from a bit of twin and
earth!!!

I think that I am going to reconnect the Kickspace and repeat the
flushing. What do you think?

Can you disconnect it and flush it with a mains hose or pressure
washer?




I might also remove my towel rad which has a Myson electric element, I
suppose that could be restricting the flow enough to collect debris.
Although the towel rad has not lost any efficiency.

This was why in earlier posts I had suggested the principle of taking
radiators outside for a good hose through.....



Cheers Richard

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In message , Andy Hall
writes
Generally, inhibitor should be replenished after about three years

Do you really mean replenish (ie drain enough water to insert some more
inhibitor) or flush and refill with fresh inhibitor?

Tia for clarifying,

--
dave @ stejonda

On Tue, 4 May 2004 09:52:53 +0100, "dave @ stejonda"
wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
Generally, inhibitor should be replenished after about three years

Do you really mean replenish (ie drain enough water to insert some more
inhibitor) or flush and refill with fresh inhibitor?

Tia for clarifying,

I tend to test once a year and generally find that after three years
the test indicates some loss of efficacy of the inhibitor. At that
point I add more. On the next occasion, I drain, use a flushing
agent and then refill, adding fresh inhibitor.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Tue, 4 May 2004 09:52:53 +0100, "dave @ stejonda"
wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
Generally, inhibitor should be replenished after about three years

Do you really mean replenish (ie drain enough water to insert some more
inhibitor) or flush and refill with fresh inhibitor?

I tend to test once a year and generally find that after three years
the test indicates some loss of efficacy of the inhibitor. At that
point I add more. On the next occasion, I drain, use a flushing
agent and then refill, adding fresh inhibitor.

Ahhhh, that's a point - what do you test with?

--
dave @ stejonda

On Tue, 4 May 2004 10:21:05 +0100, "dave @ stejonda"
wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Tue, 4 May 2004 09:52:53 +0100, "dave @ stejonda"
wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
Generally, inhibitor should be replenished after about three years

Do you really mean replenish (ie drain enough water to insert some more
inhibitor) or flush and refill with fresh inhibitor?

I tend to test once a year and generally find that after three years
the test indicates some loss of efficacy of the inhibitor. At that
point I add more. On the next occasion, I drain, use a flushing
agent and then refill, adding fresh inhibitor.

Ahhhh, that's a point - what do you test with?


Fernox do a kit that you can get at a heating merchant.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Hi Andy

Andy Hall wrote:

Can you disconnect it and flush it with a mains hose or pressure
washer?



Yep, it's sitting in the garage at present. As it's p********g down
here I might as well connect it to a garden hose and get completely
drenched!

This was why in earlier posts I had suggested the principle of taking
radiators outside for a good hose through.....



I will probably take the towel rad out for a good flushing. All the
other rads appear to have flushed clear of debris and chemical so I
think that I will leave them until they come off the walls for
decorating in the not too distant future.

I can send anyone who is interested a picture of the debris that emerged
from the Kickspace hoses. Plumbers pah!!


Cheers

Richard

On Tue, 04 May 2004 13:13:31 +0100, Richard Savage
wrote:

Hi Andy

Andy Hall wrote:

Can you disconnect it and flush it with a mains hose or pressure
washer?



Yep, it's sitting in the garage at present. As it's p********g down
here I might as well connect it to a garden hose and get completely
drenched!

This was why in earlier posts I had suggested the principle of taking
radiators outside for a good hose through.....



I will probably take the towel rad out for a good flushing. All the
other rads appear to have flushed clear of debris and chemical so I
think that I will leave them until they come off the walls for
decorating in the not too distant future.

I can send anyone who is interested a picture of the debris that emerged
from the Kickspace hoses. Plumbers pah!!


Hmm. If you think that there is some crud going round the system,
it is a good idea, next time you have the opportunity, to put an
in-line strainer on the return at the boiler. This will keep it out
of there.

I also put in some judiciously placed drain cocks and lever ball
valves to aid with future flushing.




Cheers

Richard

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In message , Andy Hall
writes
Ahhhh, that's a point - what do you test with?

Fernox do a kit that you can get at a heating merchant.

Thanks again Andy,

--
dave @ stejonda

On Tue, 4 May 2004 15:46:13 +0100, "dave @ stejonda"
wrote:

In message , Andy Hall
writes
Ahhhh, that's a point - what do you test with?

Fernox do a kit that you can get at a heating merchant.

Thanks again Andy,

Did you get the software email?



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"dave @ stejonda" wrote in message ...
In message , Andy Hall
writes
Ahhhh, that's a point - what do you test with?

Fernox do a kit that you can get at a heating merchant.

Thanks again Andy,

Flushing system

You can hire this piece of kit.

http://www.kamco.co.uk/clearflowcf30kit.htm#

Richard Savage wrote:
Hi Andy

Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 03 May 2004 12:54:24 +0100, Richard Savage
wrote:



That's ********. It is necessary in both, although one can argue
that a sealed system doesn't import air like an open one does. Not
putting in inhibitor is laziness at best and incompetence and worst.



Quiet agree. Hence my urgent flush and inhibit task! He's no longer
my plumber and as he gets all his work by word of mouth I'm not
recommending him to anyone.

What part of the country do you live in Richard, who should we look out
for?

Who are you using instead? Plumbers are like gold dust!

blah wrote:

What part of the country do you live in Richard, who should we look out
for?

Who are you using instead? Plumbers are like gold dust!





I live in Sevenoaks, Kent but my ex-plumber is closer to SE London. I
rather not 'broadcast' names, if anyone says to me is X any good I can
truthfully, and without fear of action, describe my experiences. To be
fair, he installed an adequate, if a little old fashioned in design, CH
system. What he neglected to do was add an inhibitor and fix my Suprima
100 when it started to suffer from intermittant lock-out problems.

If I was installing from scratch I would look at splitting each floor
into a separate zone and at the very least fitting a high recovery HW
tank or even one of those systems where the boiler heats all the water
in the HW tank and the cold main runs through a coil in the tank
straight to the taps, rather than stroing hot water as happens now.

Talking to neighbours and plumbers merchants; the firm most often
mentioned as being consistently good is Geers. Haven't needed to call
on them yet tho'! They did turn out in very short order (i.e. a few
hours) to my neighbour who's son was dieing from Leukaeimia (I know that
is an exceptional case but . . . )

Cheers Richard