Hi Folks,
I want to install a second front door in my house, and need to make a
choice between a hansome-looking hardwood door and a white UPVC one
costing three times as much. Can anyone list a few pros and cons of
each?

The main thing I'd like to know is: is the heat loss through a heavy
hardwood door significanly more than through a UPVC one? In other
words is it really worth paying an extra £200 for the UPVC door? How
long would it take to recoup the £200 on saved heating expenditure?

I vastly prefer the look of the hardwood item (it looks in keeping
with the age and style of the property) and I guess I can install it
myself, having hinstalled a door or two in the past. I understand that
building regs now require that UPVC items have to be installed by
qualified installers these days (?)

Cheers,
Brad

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:47:33 GMT, (Brad
Awl) wrote:


Hi Folks,
I want to install a second front door in my house, and need to make a
choice between a hansome-looking hardwood door and a white UPVC one
costing three times as much. Can anyone list a few pros and cons of
each?

I can't think of any advantages of a uPVC front door especially
considering the cost difference in this case.


The main thing I'd like to know is: is the heat loss through a heavy
hardwood door significanly more than through a UPVC one? In other
words is it really worth paying an extra £200 for the UPVC door? How
long would it take to recoup the £200 on saved heating expenditure?

If you put it into the context of the house as a whole, the difference
is negligible.

A solid wooden door has a typical U value of 3 W/m^2.K

Let's say it has an area of 2 square metres.

If the temperature in the hallway behind is 18 degrees and the outside
temperature is -3 degrees (normal ones used for heating calculations)
then the heat loss is

21 x 2 x 3 = 126 Watts

This is worst case. A more reasonable assessment would be to go for
10 degrees outside for 6 months of the year and 12 hours heating out
of 24. Substitute your own numbers if you prefer.

Using those numbers, the temperature difference is 8 degrees and the
heating period is a quarter of continuous.

So this would come to

8 x 2 x 3 /4 = 12 watts continuously.

With gas at 3p/kWh it will take approximately 63 years to spend
£200.



I vastly prefer the look of the hardwood item (it looks in keeping
with the age and style of the property) and I guess I can install it
myself, having hinstalled a door or two in the past. I understand that
building regs now require that UPVC items have to be installed by
qualified installers these days (?)

Only if more than 50% is glass, AIUI.




Cheers,
Brad


--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:23:02 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

I can't think of any advantages of a uPVC front door especially
considering the cost difference in this case.

The main thing I'd like to know is: is the heat loss through a heavy
hardwood door significanly more than through a UPVC one? In other
words is it really worth paying an extra £200 for the UPVC door? How
long would it take to recoup the £200 on saved heating expenditure?

If you put it into the context of the house as a whole, the difference
is negligible.

A solid wooden door has a typical U value of 3 W/m^2.K

Let's say it has an area of 2 square metres.

If the temperature in the hallway behind is 18 degrees and the outside
temperature is -3 degrees (normal ones used for heating calculations)
then the heat loss is

21 x 2 x 3 = 126 Watts

This is worst case. A more reasonable assessment would be to go for
10 degrees outside for 6 months of the year and 12 hours heating out
of 24. Substitute your own numbers if you prefer.

Using those numbers, the temperature difference is 8 degrees and the
heating period is a quarter of continuous.

So this would come to

8 x 2 x 3 /4 = 12 watts continuously.

With gas at 3p/kWh it will take approximately 63 years to spend
£200.



I vastly prefer the look of the hardwood item (it looks in keeping
with the age and style of the property) and I guess I can install it
myself, having hinstalled a door or two in the past. I understand that
building regs now require that UPVC items have to be installed by
qualified installers these days (?)

Only if more than 50% is glass, AIUI.

Hi Andy, That is *really* helpful! Thank you kindly for your input.

It's what I was hoping to hear! Decision made! (If only all decisions
were this easy!!)

Brad

It's what I was hoping to hear! Decision made! (If only all decisions
were this easy!!)

Always provided SWHTSMBO agrees of course!

"Brad Awl" wrote
| I want to install a second front door in my house, and need to make a
| choice between a hansome-looking hardwood door and a white UPVC one
| costing three times as much. Can anyone list a few pros and cons of
| each?

The hardwood door looks handsome. PVC one not.
Hardwood door costs less. PVC one more.
Hardwood door can be revarnished, repainted or repaired. PVC one not.
Hardwood door will add value to your property (you say it is in keeping with
age and style). PVC one will take value off your property.
Hardwood doors are hefty. The panels on some PVC ones can be kicked in.
Hardwood doors are made from renewable resources. PVC ones are not.
Hardwood doors can be recycled into other things when they die. I don't know
if any uses for old PVC doors.

| The main thing I'd like to know is: is the heat loss through a heavy
| hardwood door significanly more than through a UPVC one?

I don't have figures but I don't see why the hardwood door couldn't be less,
if property draughtproofed. One door is a very minor part of your overall
house's external surfaces to lose heat from.

| In other words is it really worth paying an extra £200 for the UPVC
| door? How long would it take to recoup the £200 on saved heating
| expenditure?

How long would it take to recoup the *£2000* you could be knocking off the
value of the house by a naff door?

| I vastly prefer the look of the hardwood item (it looks in keeping
| with the age and style of the property) and I guess I can install it
| myself, having hinstalled a door or two in the past.

Well then.

| I understand that building regs now require that UPVC items have to
| be installed by qualified installers these days (?)

That's replacement /windows/. You might get into a problem if your door is
more than half glazed, as that might turn it into a window for the purposes
of the argument.

Avoid the doors that have a 'fanlight' style of glass within the door. They
look naff. Doors should be panelled and the fanlight should be part of the
door frame *above the door*

By the way, plastic doors are very popular on council estates.

Owain

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:59:36 -0000, "Owain"
wrote:


The hardwood door looks handsome. PVC one not.
Hardwood door costs less. PVC one more.
Hardwood door can be revarnished, repainted or repaired. PVC one not.
Hardwood door will add value to your property (you say it is in keeping with
age and style). PVC one will take value off your property.
Hardwood doors are hefty. The panels on some PVC ones can be kicked in.
Hardwood doors are made from renewable resources. PVC ones are not.
Hardwood doors can be recycled into other things when they die. I don't know
if any uses for old PVC doors.

| The main thing I'd like to know is: is the heat loss through a heavy
| hardwood door significanly more than through a UPVC one?

I don't have figures but I don't see why the hardwood door couldn't be less,
if property draughtproofed. One door is a very minor part of your overall
house's external surfaces to lose heat from.

| In other words is it really worth paying an extra £200 for the UPVC
| door? How long would it take to recoup the £200 on saved heating
| expenditure?

How long would it take to recoup the *£2000* you could be knocking off the
value of the house by a naff door?

| I vastly prefer the look of the hardwood item (it looks in keeping
| with the age and style of the property) and I guess I can install it
| myself, having hinstalled a door or two in the past.

Well then.

| I understand that building regs now require that UPVC items have to
| be installed by qualified installers these days (?)

That's replacement /windows/. You might get into a problem if your door is
more than half glazed, as that might turn it into a window for the purposes
of the argument.

Owain, many thanks for your input. Your confirm my own thinking.

Avoid the doors that have a 'fanlight' style of glass within the door. They
look naff. Doors should be panelled and the fanlight should be part of the
door frame *above the door*

Oh, don't say that! It was one of those fanlight doors that took my
fancy! (I take it that by "fanlight" you mean that semi-circular
section of glass at the top of the door, divided into segments with
separating struts, yes?)

Anyway, I'll take your comment on board and digest it. I need
something that has no glass at eye level or below, but I do need some
light coming in. The door is only a karate kick's distance from a
street that sometimes has rowdy yobs walking down it late at night.

Brad J

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:45:56 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

It's what I was hoping to hear! Decision made! (If only all decisions
were this easy!!)

Always provided SWHTSMBO agrees of course!

SWHTSMBO? WTHIT? :-)

"Brad Awl" wrote in message
...

Hi Folks,
I want to install a second front door in my house, and need to make a
choice between a hansome-looking hardwood door and a white UPVC one
costing three times as much. Can anyone list a few pros and cons of
each?

The main thing I'd like to know is: is the heat loss through a heavy
hardwood door significanly more than through a UPVC one? In other
words is it really worth paying an extra £200 for the UPVC door? How
long would it take to recoup the £200 on saved heating expenditure?

I vastly prefer the look of the hardwood item (it looks in keeping
with the age and style of the property) and I guess I can install it
myself, having hinstalled a door or two in the past. I understand that
building regs now require that UPVC items have to be installed by
qualified installers these days (?)


I'd go with decent hardwood - if it's properly fitted and draught-proof then
the difference in energy loss will be negligible.

uPVC windows and doors were a big negative point against my house when I was
buying it - not enough to make me change my mind, but it certainly knocked a
bit off the price I was prepared to pay, and had there been another house on
the street without those eyesores then I'd have probably gone for that one
in preference. I'm stuck with the windows now (unless I fork out an
absolute fortune for d/g pt L compliant sashes with cathedral glass inserts
in the top), but the door's a gonner as soon as I get a round tuit. If the
housing market slips into a buyers market again, it could make a difference.

--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

I vastly prefer the look of the hardwood item (it looks in keeping
with the age and style of the property) and I guess I can install it
myself, having hinstalled a door or two in the past.

There is nothing to discuss. Fit the hardwood door.

I would fit it even if it cost 500 quid more than the plastic.

Christian.

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:15:14 GMT, (Brad
J) wrote:



Anyway, I'll take your comment on board and digest it. I need
something that has no glass at eye level or below, but I do need some
light coming in. The door is only a karate kick's distance from a
street that sometimes has rowdy yobs walking down it late at night.

What's it like living in Whitehall......??



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

She Who Hopes That She Might Be Obeyed!


Peter Crosland

"Brad J" wrote
| Avoid the doors that have a 'fanlight' style of glass within
| the door. They look naff. Doors should be panelled and the
| fanlight should be part of the door frame *above the door*
| Oh, don't say that!

Sorry if truth hurts :-)

| It was one of those fanlight doors that took my fancy! (I take
| it that by "fanlight" you mean that semi-circular section of
| glass at the top of the door, divided into segments with
| separating struts, yes?)

Yes.

And some of those doors are made in two layers with the glass put in the
middle and the whole lot sandwiched together, so almost impossible to
reglaze. If you want glazed, look for internal hardwood glazing beads.

| Anyway, I'll take your comment on board and digest it. I need
| something that has no glass at eye level or below, but I do need
| some light coming in.

A glazed or part glazed door into an adjacent room will probably give more
light into the hall, including at night from the room's electric light.

| The door is only a karate kick's distance from a street that
| sometimes has rowdy yobs walking down it late at night.

Then you want hardwood or wood-steel-wood sandwich. Plastic doors are
vulnerable to cigarettes and lighters, spray paints, solvents, etc.

You can still get multipoint locking systems for timber doors and hinge
bolts would be a good idea too (as would a spyhole unless you have CCTV).

Owain

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:44:43 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

She Who Hopes That She Might Be Obeyed!

I ain't got one of those at present, so I'm laughing! (Only my cat,
and she don't give a hoot)! :-)

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 13:44:43 -0000, "Peter Crosland"
wrote:

She Who Hopes That She Might Be Obeyed!

Ahhh! Gotcha! No... what I say goes in my house!

Brad

Cat flaps are much easier to fit in wooden doors as well!

Peter Crosland