Hi
Is it practical (i.e. is there enough working space) to fit herringbone
strutting between joists when you only have access to the joists from
below, the top side being floorboarded?

Plan B is to brace using timber and skew nailing, but the joist centres
and joists sizes are not consistent making cutting the timber to size a
bit of a chore.

thanks
tony

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tony wrote:

Hi
Is it practical (i.e. is there enough working space) to fit
herringbone strutting between joists when you only have access to the
joists from below, the top side being floorboarded?

Plan B is to brace using timber and skew nailing, but the joist
centres and joists sizes are not consistent making cutting the timber
to size a bit of a chore.

thanks
tony

What are you *actually* trying to achieve? If you need noggins to stop the
joists twisting, these should be fitted perpendicular to the joists, and
should be almost as tall as the joists themselves. If you offset them, you
can nail through the joist into the end of the noggin.
--
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Set Square
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Set Square wrote:

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Tony wrote:


Hi
Is it practical (i.e. is there enough working space) to fit
herringbone strutting between joists when you only have access to the
joists from below, the top side being floorboarded?

Plan B is to brace using timber and skew nailing, but the joist
centres and joists sizes are not consistent making cutting the timber
to size a bit of a chore.

thanks
tony


What are you *actually* trying to achieve? If you need noggins to stop the
joists twisting, these should be fitted perpendicular to the joists, and
should be almost as tall as the joists themselves. If you offset them, you
can nail through the joist into the end of the noggin.


Its actually better to use herringbone - its recommended building
practice, and yes, its possible though awkward to install from below only.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Its actually better to use herringbone - its recommended building
practice, and yes, its possible though awkward to install from below
only.

I sort of assumed it was done to allow easy access for pipes etc. And
maybe even timber costs. The Victorians seemed paranoid about this. But
can it be stronger than just a lump of the same size as the joists nailed
between them? This is what they used on my new work - under the eagle eye
of both a BS and architect.

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Its actually better to use herringbone - its recommended building
practice, and yes, its possible though awkward to install from below
only.


I sort of assumed it was done to allow easy access for pipes etc. And
maybe even timber costs. The Victorians seemed paranoid about this. But
can it be stronger than just a lump of the same size as the joists nailed
between them? This is what they used on my new work - under the eagle eye
of both a BS and architect.

Of course noggins work IF they are cut exactly to size.

But herringbones get nailed in and because on the slant, end up jammed
in between.

Easier to fit and make a decent job for hairy arsed chippies :-)

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I sort of assumed it was done to allow easy access for pipes etc. And
maybe even timber costs. The Victorians seemed paranoid about this.
But can it be stronger than just a lump of the same size as the joists
nailed between them? This is what they used on my new work - under the
eagle eye of both a BS and architect.

Of course noggins work IF they are cut exactly to size.

Not exactly difficult?

But herringbones get nailed in and because on the slant, end up jammed
in between.

Well, that might stop a twist in one direction...

--
*Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 17:41:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
I sort of assumed it was done to allow easy access for pipes etc. And
maybe even timber costs. The Victorians seemed paranoid about this.
But can it be stronger than just a lump of the same size as the joists
nailed between them? This is what they used on my new work - under the
eagle eye of both a BS and architect.

Of course noggins work IF they are cut exactly to size.

Not exactly difficult?

But herringbones get nailed in and because on the slant, end up jammed
in between.

Well, that might stop a twist in one direction...

They are fitted in pairs making an X shape between the joists.

My Victorian house has loads of them under the first floor, but oddly
none on the ground floor joists.

Phil
The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
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In article ,
Phil Addison wrote:
Well, that might stop a twist in one direction...

They are fitted in pairs making an X shape between the joists.

My Victorian house has loads of them under the first floor, but oddly
none on the ground floor joists.

Mine has on the ground floor too - easily seen from the cellar.

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Phil
Addison wrote:
My Victorian house has loads of them under the first floor, but
oddly none on the ground floor joists.

Usually the ground floor joists are 4x2 off sleeper walls so you
don't need them. BS5268 only requires strutting (at max 6 x the
joist depth) where the joist depth/width is more than 5. If it is 5
or less the only requirement is for the compression edge to be held
in line, which it will be when the flooring is nailed to it.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:23:23 +0100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , Phil
Addison wrote:
My Victorian house has loads of them under the first floor, but
oddly none on the ground floor joists.

Usually the ground floor joists are 4x2 off sleeper walls so you
don't need them.

That's how mine are done.

BS5268 only requires strutting (at max 6 x the joist depth)

Does that mean if you have 7x2 joists the struts/herringbones are only
needed on pairs of joists 42" apart. i.e. the intermediate joists do
not need strutts? I hope so as only some of my first floor ones are
strutted.

where the joist depth/width is more than 5. If it is 5
or less the only requirement is for the compression edge to be held
in line, which it will be when the flooring is nailed to it.

So all 7x1 joists need it, but no 7x2's require strutting at all? My
upstairs ones are mainly 7x2, though I think I remember some skinny ones
too. Maybe they are the ones strutted.

Phil
The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
Remove NOSPAM from address to email me

In article , Phil
Addison wrote:
Does that mean if you have 7x2 joists the struts/herringbones are
only needed on pairs of joists 42" apart. i.e. the intermediate
joists do not need strutts? I hope so as only some of my first
floor ones are strutted.

No the spacing is along the length of the joist, but ...

by the code the depth/breadth ratio is 3.5 so the only requirement
is for the ends of the joist to be held in position and the members
held in line "by tie rods or binders". For floors the strutting
requirement effectively only comes in for D/B5 - so if you had
8x1.5" joists they would need rows of strutting every 48"

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:34:56 +0100, Tony Bryer
wrote:

In article , Phil
Addison wrote:
Does that mean if you have 7x2 joists the struts/herringbones are
only needed on pairs of joists 42" apart. i.e. the intermediate
joists do not need strutts? I hope so as only some of my first
floor ones are strutted.

No the spacing is along the length of the joist, but ...

by the code the depth/breadth ratio is 3.5 so the only requirement
is for the ends of the joist to be held in position and the members
held in line "by tie rods or binders". For floors the strutting
requirement effectively only comes in for D/B5 - so if you had
8x1.5" joists they would need rows of strutting every 48"

Thanks for clearing that up.

Phil
The uk.d-i-y FAQ is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
Remove NOSPAM from address to email me