IMM wrote:
"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
.. .


IMM wrote:


You clearly haven't a clue and lack
simple analytical skills. Which is sad.

And you have even less simple analytical skills.

snip tripe

Now I've seen it all, IMM has resorted to slagging himself off!!!


You have to learn how to read threads. The clinic can help you.


YOU have to learn how to read threads. I doubt the clinic will be able
to help.

"Lobster" wrote in message
om...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

snip amateurish misinformed garbage

Hah! that's you told, Andy... ;-)

It did.

"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...
IMM wrote:
"Nick Brooks" wrote in message
...

IMM wrote:

"John Rumm" wrote in message
.. .


IMM wrote:


You clearly haven't a clue and lack
simple analytical skills. Which is sad.

And you have even less simple analytical skills.

snip tripe

Now I've seen it all, IMM has resorted to slagging himself off!!!

You have to learn how to read threads. The clinic can help you.

YOU have to learn how to read threads. I doubt the clinic will be able
to help.

Do you copy all the time? Therapy can help on that point.

On 2 Apr 2004 03:34:11 -0800, (Lobster)
wrote:

"IMM" wrote in message ...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

snip amateurish misinformed garbage

Hah! that's you told, Andy... ;-)


I'm devastated.....


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
news
On 2 Apr 2004 03:34:11 -0800, (Lobster)
wrote:

"IMM" wrote in message
...
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

snip amateurish misinformed garbage

Hah! that's you told, Andy... ;-)

I'm devastated.....

You are? My oh my, from a man who has no shame I hear this.

In message , IMM
writes

A number of us have tried the "let's explain this one step at a time
approach". Andy has a lot more faith/perserverance than others.
We have been around the loop with IMM a few times now over a number of
subjects, it's usually good for a laugh for everyone else.

It's certainly generated some good put down lines
--
geoff

Maxie, stick to looking at the pcb's.


Sorry mate, I have employees to do that

--
geoff

In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 23:50:38 +0100, "IMM" wrote:



Maxie, stick to looking at the pcb's.


The pcb's what?

Maybe his imagination runs wild at the thought of the legs on those
capacitors
--
geoff

In message , IMM
writes

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:04:42 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

IMM wrote:

You clearly haven't a clue and lack simple analytical skills. Which is
sad.

ROTFL

Watching Andy run (analytical) rings round IMM, is a spectacle I had
only previously observed in Road Runner cartoons!


A number of us have tried the "let's explain this one step at a time
approach". Andy has a lot more faith/perserverance than others.
We have been around the loop with IMM a few times now over a number of
subjects, it's usually good for a laugh for everyone else.

Stick to replacing the diverter valve on Vaillents. Best leave the thinking
to others.



he claims to be in the heating industry and can't even spell Vaillant

--
geoff

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:41 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Dave Plowman wrote:

'Zone valves, etc' require a basic understanding of electricity to
install. Guess why our resident 'expert' doesn't like them...

It is interesting to watch in a way, but he seems to live in a world
totally governed by "rules of thumb". If he does not have one to hand
for the topic, then he will just grab one from the nearest web page, and
then cling to it for all he is worth, even when clearly it's way beyond
reason. I suppose it might be a result of a complete lack of analytical
/ scientific reason, or perhaps even a lack of basic mathematical
ability. Hence a rule of thumb is a simple way to overcome some of these
limitations that does not require taxing thought, vis:

Not able work out the actual pipe sizes required for your gas feed based
on flow resistances and pressure drops? apply rule "Install 22mm direct
to meter"

Don`t understand heat loss calcs? apply rule "you need 400mm of
insulation and tin foil under your tiles".



I think you are probably onto to something. This might account in a
bizarre way why many of us find ourselves exhorted to do things a certain
way (regardless of economics, customer expectations, practicalities, the
laws of physics, ...), whilst we are told that design calculations should
be left to 'experts'.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:41 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Dave Plowman wrote:

'Zone valves, etc' require a basic understanding of electricity to
install. Guess why our resident 'expert' doesn't like them...

It is interesting to watch in a way, but he seems to live in a world
totally governed by "rules of thumb".

If you mean me, I am a maths man. I give pointers here.

Don`t understand heat loss calcs? apply rule "you need 400mm of
insulation and tin foil under your tiles".

I think you are probably onto to something. This might account in a
bizarre way why many of us find ourselves exhorted to do things a certain
way (regardless of economics, customer expectations, practicalities, the
laws of physics, ...), whilst we are told that design calculations should
be left to 'experts'.

Most installers do rule of thumb installations. The only thing they may
calculate is the rad sizes from a scale rule. A one size fits all boiler
they buy, so no need to do that either. Balance it? Fully open downstairs
and half open upstairs and put TRVs all around to get them out of jail.
Most do things a certain way because that is the only way they know. Or "we
always do it this way", which is typically British. Hence foreigners laugh
at our outdated poor performing plumbing and heating systems.

Very little innovation in heating and water systems came from Britain. I
can only think of the thermal store (in the modern sense) in 1985 and the
unvented cylinder in 1863, which Britain only adopted in 1986. Condensing
boilers, combi's, system boilers, instant water heaters, alloy tubed heat
exchangers? Nope. All Continental.

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:24:32 +0100, "IMM" wrote:


"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 00:47:41 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Dave Plowman wrote:

'Zone valves, etc' require a basic understanding of electricity to
install. Guess why our resident 'expert' doesn't like them...

It is interesting to watch in a way, but he seems to live in a world
totally governed by "rules of thumb".

If you mean me, I am a maths man. I give pointers here.

Kind of like a cell.... multiplying and dividing at the same time....



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Hence foreigners laugh at our outdated poor performing plumbing and
heating systems.

I think that's very rude of your overseas guests. Was that because of the
combi in every room in your house, or they kept on banging their heads on
the forced air ventilation system?

--
*Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
John Powell wrote:

I want a high flow system so I can have a decent shower

For an "ordinary" shower then this boiler would be more than adequate.
In fact anything that can do 10L/min or better will be more than you
need for a single shower usually.

- the builder's recommended a "Alpha CB50"

http://www.alpha-boilers.com/products/CB50.html

This provides a high flow rate - 18l/min @ 60 degrees C until the
internal 60l cylinder is exhausted, then a flow rate of 9-10 l/min @
45 degrees indefinitely

Is this an ideal system for a good shower? I'm concerned that my
showers are going to be short ones at a decent flow rate.

They make it quite tricky to find any technical specs on the web site -
but you can download the installation manual which has most of the info
you need. The boiler itself has a direct hot water heat input rating of
33kW - which is toward the larger end, but not the biggest you can buy.
Efficency at 80% is poor (and reduces the real DHW heating capacity to a
real world 26.4kW once its tank is cold). So most of the impressive DHW
performance comes from the 57L tank that is built in.

The main benefit of a storage system like this will tend to be better
performance when filling baths.

Would I be better going for a combi-boiler without an internal storage
cylinder, but a high flow rate anyway, perhaps the Baxi Combi 130HE?

I have no idea what Alpha are like, so will not give any recomendation.
If you want to shop around then I would have thought that it might be
worth looking at condencing combis with a heat input of 30kW or better.
There are a number to choose from.

Price looks OK at just over the grand:-

http://inspiredheating.co.uk/acatalo...D_COMBI_S.html

£783 + VAT = £920 from T&P
http://tinyurl.com/2uc5x

IMM wrote:

?783 + VAT = ?920 from T&P
http://tinyurl.com/2uc5x

Don't forget the flue at 40 quid...


--
Cheers,

John.

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