Dear All

I'm currently looking at offering on a house which has a warm air
heating system, and I'm fishing for information on the pro's and con's
of this form of central heating as I have no experience of it.

The house is circa 1994, and the heating system is described as "oil
fired warm air heating, with ventilation and heat recovery system". I
have inspected the house and spoken to the vendor about it, and I was
told that it essentially extracts the stale air through several vents
at skirting level and ducts it outside via a heat exchanger to warm
incoming fresh air that is ducted into adjustable ceiling mounted
vents in each room. The system was controlled off a central
thermostat. The unit is fitted with a number (5 or 6) filters for the
incoming air, which I was told reduces airborne dust (consequently
having beneficial impact for asthma suffers). The unit itself was
about 3ft x 2ft x 1ft and didn't have any visible defects. The house
itself was very well insulated and air tight.

I'd really like to find out (a) general opinions on this sort of
system relative to conventional radiators (b) experiences from any
owners, past or present (c) how easy they are to control, ie. can you
easily turn up the temp in individual rooms by adjusting the flow to
that room, and do they respond generally quicker or slower than
radiators? (d) how do they compare to conventional systems in terms
of cost of ownership.

Thanks
Neil

On 16 Mar 2004 04:18:43 -0800, (Neil Deinhardt)
wrote:


The unit is fitted with a number (5 or 6) filters for the
incoming air, which I was told reduces airborne dust (consequently
having beneficial impact for asthma suffers).

This is often touted as a "benefit" in fact there is no evidence it
makes any difference at all. The amount of dust in a house is
primarily affected by the type of furnishings and floor covering and
people (shedding skin particles). If anything forced air systems
stir up the air more therefore slightly increasing exposure to dust
particles rather than decreasing it.

I'd really like to find out (a) general opinions on this sort of
system relative to conventional radiators

To achieve equivalent comfort levels you need to operate the house a
degree or two warmer than you would with radiators as there is no
radiant heat. In well insulated houses the upstairs rooms tend to
become warmer than the downstairs ones which some people don't like
(most prefer bedrooms to be slightly cooler for the best quality
sleep). Some people find the temperature stratification in rooms to
be uncomfortable.

(b) experiences from any owners, past or present

My experience has been several years with the older, truly awful,
variety and over the last year or so observing a colleague of mine
who has (with the aid of the manufacturers and lots of qualified
engineers) tried without success to get a brand new installation
provide him with a comfortable house. He finally ripped it all out
and replaced it with underfloor heating (at vast expense). That
installation was quite complex as the house is large but he found the
hot head/cold feet characteristic of air heating to be unacceptable.

Having lived with the older systems and experienced the more modern
system I would not consider buying a house with forced air heating.

(c) how easy they are to control, ie. can you
easily turn up the temp in individual rooms by adjusting the flow to
that room, and do they respond generally quicker or slower than
radiators?

Over the whole house they are very easy to control, individual room
control isn't quite so easy and depends to some extent upon how the
original airflows were calculated (or, more likely, not calculated at
all - there are many poor installations).

(d) how do they compare to conventional systems in terms
of cost of ownership.

Running costs tend to be slightly higher as you need higher room
temperatures. Repairs and servicing can be expensive as there is
only one manufacturer, not to many installers will work on them and
those that do have little competition and tend to inflate their
prices.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On 16 Mar 2004 04:18:43 -0800, (Neil Deinhardt)
wrote:


The unit is fitted with a number (5 or 6) filters for the
incoming air, which I was told reduces airborne dust (consequently
having beneficial impact for asthma suffers).

This is often touted as a "benefit" in fact there is no evidence it
makes any difference at all. The amount of dust in a house is
primarily affected by the type of furnishings and floor covering and
people (shedding skin particles). If anything forced air systems
stir up the air more therefore slightly increasing exposure to dust
particles rather than decreasing it.

With electrostatic air filters this is not the case at all.

I'd really like to find out (a) general opinions on this sort of
system relative to conventional radiators

To achieve equivalent comfort levels you need to operate the house a
degree or two warmer than you would with radiators as there is no
radiant heat.

Totally untrue. The heat emitted from radiators is 90% convection.

In well insulated houses the upstairs rooms tend to
become warmer than the downstairs ones which some people don't like
(most prefer bedrooms to be slightly cooler for the best quality
sleep).

One again untrue. This appears a well designed and installed system. The
upstairs, or any room, can be balanced to reduce air flow.

Some people find the temperature stratification in rooms to
be uncomfortable.

(b) experiences from any owners, past or present

My experience has been several years with the older, truly awful,
variety and over the last year or so observing a colleague of mine
who has (with the aid of the manufacturers and lots of qualified
engineers) tried without success to get a brand new installation
provide him with a comfortable house. He finally ripped it all out
and replaced it with underfloor heating (at vast expense). That
installation was quite complex as the house is large but he found the
hot head/cold feet characteristic of air heating to be unacceptable.

This was obviously a bad design/poor installation, etc. certainly not
typical for a two duct good design job.

Having lived with the older systems and experienced the more modern
system I would not consider buying a house with forced air heating.

Because you have only lived in houses with very poor, cheao and nasty
systems.

(c) how easy they are to control, ie. can you
easily turn up the temp in individual rooms by adjusting the flow to
that room, and do they respond generally quicker or slower than
radiators?

Over the whole house they are very easy to control, individual room
control isn't quite so easy and depends to some extent upon how the
original airflows were calculated (or, more likely, not calculated at
all - there are many poor installations).

Individual room control is possible by having modulated registers and
variable flow fans

(d) how do they compare to conventional systems in terms
of cost of ownership.

Running costs tend to be slightly higher as you need higher room
temperatures.

Total nonsense. Running costs are slightly lower than rad systems.

Repairs and servicing can be expensive as there is
only one manufacturer,

Most gas forced air units are on the British Gas list. Most burner controls
are comonn with boilers.

not to many installers will work on them

What installers are you on about? Cowboy plumbers putting in rad systems?

and those that do have little competition and tend to inflate their
prices.

Any proof of this? B Gas charge the same for forced air and boilers.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Repairs and servicing can be expensive as there is
only one manufacturer,

Most gas forced air units are on the British Gas list. Most burner
controls are comonn with boilers.

British Gas service oil fired boilers that use common controls to gas ones?

--
*If you can read this, thank a teecher

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:45:19 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


With electrostatic air filters this is not the case at all.

It is exactly the case. The only advantage of electrostatic
filtering is that it is quiet and by precipitating lightweight
particles it prolongs the life of the particulate filters. It has no
measurable effect on internal airborne dust levels.

I'd really like to find out (a) general opinions on this sort of
system relative to conventional radiators

To achieve equivalent comfort levels you need to operate the house a
degree or two warmer than you would with radiators as there is no
radiant heat.

Totally untrue. The heat emitted from radiators is 90% convection.

I refer you (again) to any book on basic physiology. Some are
available with pictures. "Warm feet, cool head" is very applicable to
achieving comfort in heating - unfortunately warm air heating isn't
very good at providing it.

In the design being discussed the use of ceiling feeds for the hot
air, whilst saving on construction costs, is a significant design
flaw and likely to increase rather than decrease stratification.

In well insulated houses the upstairs rooms tend to
become warmer than the downstairs ones which some people don't like
(most prefer bedrooms to be slightly cooler for the best quality
sleep).

One again untrue. This appears a well designed and installed system. The
upstairs, or any room, can be balanced to reduce air flow.

You can reduce air flow but even in Immyland you can't stop hot air
rising (something you must have noticed).

He finally ripped it all out
and replaced it with underfloor heating (at vast expense). That
installation was quite complex as the house is large but he found the
hot head/cold feet characteristic of air heating to be unacceptable.

This was obviously a bad design/poor installation, etc. certainly not
typical for a two duct good design job.

As you have never seen it, are unqualified in the field and have
little or no experience of these systems yourself I feel it more
likely that the various qualified and experienced engineers and
technicians who installed and investigated it know a bit more about
the subject.

(c) how easy they are to control, ie. can you
easily turn up the temp in individual rooms by adjusting the flow to
that room, and do they respond generally quicker or slower than
radiators?

Over the whole house they are very easy to control, individual room
control isn't quite so easy and depends to some extent upon how the
original airflows were calculated (or, more likely, not calculated at
all - there are many poor installations).

Individual room control is possible by having modulated registers and
variable flow fans

Are those fitted in the house under discussion?

(d) how do they compare to conventional systems in terms
of cost of ownership.

Running costs tend to be slightly higher as you need higher room
temperatures.

Total nonsense. Running costs are slightly lower than rad systems.

Why would this be? The house needs to be hotter - how is this
cheaper?

"The key benefit of radiant heating over warm-air heating is that it
warms people and objects in the building, as well as the building
fabric — not the air in the building. For the same comfort level, the
air temperature can be substantially lower — reducing heat losses."
(http://www.bsee.co.uk/news/fullstory...s_spot_on.html)

" Floor heating is as close to the ideal comfort system as possible.
Warm floors deliver heat closest to the coldest part of the body, the
feet. Room temperature remains at a constant, comfortable level
throughout the room, and falls off near the ceiling, where heat loss
is normally the greatest. In contrast, warm air heating tends to make
the ceiling the warmest part of the room and the floor the coldest,
resulting in the greatest possible energy losses and poorest
comfort....A large part of radiant floor comfort is delivered as
radiation, like sunshine, so the average person can be comfortable at
air temperatures quite a bit below those needed with warm air
heating. These lower temperature settings, if used, can save in
heating cost,"
(http://content.honeywell.com/yourhome/Heating/Heat2.htm)

are but two of very many references to relative comfort levels and
heating costs. Not a single one says that hot air systems save
energy by allowing equivalent comfort at lower temperatures because
it is a physiological impossibility.

Repairs and servicing can be expensive as there is
only one manufacturer,

Most gas forced air units are on the British Gas list.

Pity this one burns oil then.

and those that do have little competition and tend to inflate their
prices.

Any proof of this?

Try asking some of you fellow plumbers.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:45:19 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


With electrostatic air filters this is not the case at all.

It is exactly the case. The only advantage of electrostatic
filtering is that it is quiet and by precipitating lightweight
particles it prolongs the life of the particulate filters. It has no
measurable effect on internal airborne dust levels.

Absolute tripe.

I'd really like to find out (a) general opinions on this sort of
system relative to conventional radiators

To achieve equivalent comfort levels you need to operate the house a
degree or two warmer than you would with radiators as there is no
radiant heat.

Totally untrue. The heat emitted from radiators is 90% convection.

I refer you (again) to any book on basic physiology.

snip tripe

In well insulated houses the upstairs rooms tend to
become warmer than the downstairs ones which some people don't like
(most prefer bedrooms to be slightly cooler for the best quality
sleep).

One again untrue. This appears a well designed and installed system.
The
upstairs, or any room, can be balanced to reduce air flow.

You can reduce air flow but even in Immyland you can't stop hot air
rising (something you must have noticed).

Oh my God. There is little to natural airconveection in a room tat has air
being blow in. I good syste,m will keep the air moving at all times, no
matter how slowly.

snip ill-informed stuff

Not worth taking issue with is so bad.

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:13:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

There is little to natural airconveection in a room tat has air
being blow in. I good syste,m will keep the air moving at all times, no
matter how slowly.

You really must stop trying to write after evenings at the pub.
Interpreting what you are trying to say is difficult enough at any
time, after 22:00 it becomes completely impossible.

I am surprised your knowledge of hot air is so limited though.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:13:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

snip

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip
hahahahahahahahaha

"chuffed_2_bits" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...
snip

hahahahahahahahaha

I think we have one here.

In article ,
Huge wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:13:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

snip



Please don't post empty messages. It's impolite.

Isn't it strange the way one who claims to know about all things newsgroup
and computer regularly posts this 'snip' or 'snip garbage' as if by
posting it, it actually did?

--
*Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air heating?

MBQ

In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:13:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

There is little to natural airconveection in a room tat has air
being blow in. I good syste,m will keep the air moving at all times, no
matter how slowly.

You really must stop trying to write after evenings at the pub.
Interpreting what you are trying to say is difficult enough at any
time, after 22:00 it becomes completely impossible.

I am surprised your knowledge of hot air is so limited though.


Peter- there is no-one more expert in the expulsion of hot air in there
fair isles, as well you know
--
geoff

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:13:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

There is little to natural airconveection in a room tat has air
being blow in. I good syste,m will keep the air moving at all times, no
matter how slowly.

You really must stop trying to write after evenings at the pub.
Interpreting what you are trying to say is difficult enough at any
time, after 22:00 it becomes completely impossible.

I am surprised your knowledge of hot air is so limited though.


Peter- there is no-one more expert in the expulsion of hot air in there
fair isles, as well you know

Maxie, English please.

(MBQ) wrote in message . com...
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

MBQ

In article ,
MBQ wrote:
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

How many have you lived in with warm air heating, given that most would
only ever put up with it once. ;-)

--
*Dance like nobody's watching.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Dave Plowman wrote in message ...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

How many have you lived in with warm air heating, given that most would
only ever put up with it once. ;-)

I did actually say in another thread that I lived for a while in J&S's
heartland around Northampton and suffered the misfortune of numerous
warm air systems. There it seemed like almost every house built in the
80's or thereabouts was warm air. The first was my first house
purchase and I didn't know any better. The second house was such a
good deal in other ways (location, location, location...) that we put
up with it. More recently in our fourth house, but it was replaced as
soon as we could afford to, as have most other people on the estate
apart from some friends who seem to collect the old units just in case
theirs beaks down! Now moved again to a house that has had a wet
system since it was built.

I also said that I'm willing to believe it is possible to have a good
bespoke warm air system.

The reality, however, based on my experience, is that I would advise
avoiding the vast majority of installations or budget for their
replacement as they are poorly designed and installed.

MBQ

In article ,
MBQ wrote:
I also said that I'm willing to believe it is possible to have a good
bespoke warm air system.

I 'crashed' for a short while in a friend's place which had warm air
heating and it was awful. He constantly praised it for low running costs
and quick warm up etc. But when he moved - to a brand new house which was
one of two built near by on a site clearance, it didn't have warm air
heating which I'd guess he could have specified if he'd really wanted to.

The reality, however, based on my experience, is that I would advise
avoiding the vast majority of installations or budget for their
replacement as they are poorly designed and installed.

Yes. Regardless of what may be possible, the reality is that domestic
installations - and many office type ones - are poor and unsuited for our
climate. If we had the sort of weather where air-con was required for much
of the year, things might be different.

--
*Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
Dave Plowman wrote in message
...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

How many have you lived in with warm air heating, given that most would
only ever put up with it once. ;-)

I did actually say in another thread that

This one is an idiot. He hasn't a clue, so don't take the bait.

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
I also said that I'm willing to believe it is possible to have a good
bespoke warm air system.

I 'crashed' for a short while in a friend's place which had warm air
heating and it was awful. He constantly praised it for low running costs
and quick warm up etc. But when he moved - to a brand new house which was
one of two built near by on a site clearance, it didn't have warm air
heating which I'd guess he could have specified if he'd really wanted to.


Possibly not, if a decent system was going to be installed, the heating
needs to be designed along with the building, otherwise you do get many of
the 'problems' you have mentioned in this and another thread.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
Dave Plowman wrote in message
...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

How many have you lived in with warm air heating, given that most
would
only ever put up with it once. ;-)

I did actually say in another thread that

This one is an idiot. He hasn't a clue, so don't take the bait.


Yes you are IMM ! :~)

In article ,
Jerry. wrote:
I 'crashed' for a short while in a friend's place which had warm air
heating and it was awful. He constantly praised it for low running
costs and quick warm up etc. But when he moved - to a brand new house
which was one of two built near by on a site clearance, it didn't have
warm air heating which I'd guess he could have specified if he'd
really wanted to.


Possibly not, if a decent system was going to be installed, the heating
needs to be designed along with the building, otherwise you do get many
of the 'problems' you have mentioned in this and another thread.

Well, yes, but given this was a perfectly conventional house for the UK,
I'd also say it's not possible to incorporate adequate sized ducting
without a space penalty. Of course, people like IMM live on a planet where
space costs nothing. This ain't so in places like London.

--


Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
Jerry. wrote:
This one is an idiot. He hasn't a clue, so don't take the bait.

Yes you are IMM ! :~)

I'd love IMM - for once - to address legitimate points rather than just
the usual crap. Of course he's stumped for answers given that maker's
blurb never gives the down sides either.

Most of us hate the noise produced by small ventilation systems. To move
air around quietly requires large ducts, good baffling, and slow turning
fans. And inlet and outlets not next to one another - which rules out just
using the ceiling void. All of which will use far too much useful space in
the average UK house - even if designed from scratch, as well as cost
dearly.

IMM loves combis because they get rid of the storage cylinder, header
tanks and the space they take up - but loves hot air systems which use
several times the space. Wonder who hasn't a clue?

--
*To err is human. To forgive is against company policy.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
I also said that I'm willing to believe it is possible to have a good
bespoke warm air system.

I 'crashed' for a short while in a friend's place which had warm air
heating

Amnd he knows all about it now! Duh!

In message , IMM
writes

"geoff" wrote in message
...
In message , Peter Parry
writes
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 22:13:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:

There is little to natural airconveection in a room tat has air
being blow in. I good syste,m will keep the air moving at all times, no
matter how slowly.

You really must stop trying to write after evenings at the pub.
Interpreting what you are trying to say is difficult enough at any
time, after 22:00 it becomes completely impossible.

I am surprised your knowledge of hot air is so limited though.


Peter- there is no-one more expert in the expulsion of hot air in there

(= these)

fair isles, as well you know

Maxie, English please.

Happy now?

--
geoff

In article ,
IMM wrote:
I 'crashed' for a short while in a friend's place which had warm air
heating

Amnd he knows all about it now! Duh!

Perhaps you'll give your actual, rather than just what you've read in
advertising, experiences? No? There's a surprise, then.

--
*A day without sunshine is like... night.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"IMM" wrote in message ...
"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
Dave Plowman wrote in message
...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

How many have you lived in with warm air heating, given that most would
only ever put up with it once. ;-)

I did actually say in another thread that

This one is an idiot. He hasn't a clue, so don't take the bait.

It wasn't "bait", it was a straightforward question.

All you can do is try and avoid the question by resorting to insults.
That speaks volumes.

Why don't you just answer the question, how many houses have you
actually lived in with warm air heating?

MBQ

"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
Dave Plowman wrote in message
...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air
heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

How many have you lived in with warm air heating, given that most
would
only ever put up with it once. ;-)

I did actually say in another thread that

This one is an idiot. He hasn't a clue, so don't take the bait.

It wasn't "bait", it was a straightforward question.

I didn't mean you.

"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
Dave Plowman wrote in message
...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air
heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

How many have you lived in with warm air heating, given that most
would
only ever put up with it once. ;-)

I did actually say in another thread that

This one is an idiot. He hasn't a clue, so don't take the bait.

It wasn't "bait", it was a straightforward question.

All you can do is try and avoid the question by resorting to insults.
That speaks volumes.

Why don't you just answer the question, how many houses have you
actually lived in with warm air heating?

A few. I have also implemented many forced air systems. I am no jolly
amateur.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:55:03 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

I am no jolly amateur.

That's very true, usually you are a miserable one.


--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:55:03 +0100, "IMM" wrote:

I am no jolly amateur.

That's very true, usually you are a miserable one.

LOL, such wit.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Why don't you just answer the question, how many houses have you
actually lived in with warm air heating?

A few. I have also implemented many forced air systems. I am no jolly
amateur.

You've *lived* in 'a few' houses with warm air heating? I think you're
lying through your teeth.

And of those you say you've 'implemented', any chance of giving a contact
address etc to see if the occupants are happy with your design?

No again?

So no surprise there then.

--
*Why is the time of day with the slowest traffic called rush hour?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
Dave Plowman wrote in message
...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air
heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

How many have you lived in with warm air heating, given that most
would
only ever put up with it once. ;-)

I did actually say in another thread that

This one is an idiot. He hasn't a clue, so don't take the bait.

It wasn't "bait", it was a straightforward question.

I didn't mean you.


So why reply to his message, as I said before, you are the clueless one !

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
"IMM" wrote in message
...
"MBQ" wrote in message
om...
Dave Plowman wrote in message
...
In article ,
MBQ wrote:
How many houses have you actually lived in with warm air
heating?

MBQ

No answer - thought so!

How many have you lived in with warm air heating, given that
most
would
only ever put up with it once. ;-)

I did actually say in another thread that

This one is an idiot. He hasn't a clue, so don't take the bait.

It wasn't "bait", it was a straightforward question.

I didn't mean you.


So why reply to his message, as I said before, you are the clueless one !


LOL, so witty.

Dave Plowman wrote in message ...
In article ,
Jerry. wrote:
This one is an idiot. He hasn't a clue, so don't take the bait.

Yes you are IMM ! :~)

I'd love IMM - for once - to address legitimate points rather than just
the usual crap. Of course he's stumped for answers given that maker's
blurb never gives the down sides either.

Most of us hate the noise produced by small ventilation systems. To move
air around quietly requires large ducts, good baffling, and slow turning
fans. And inlet and outlets not next to one another - which rules out just
using the ceiling void. All of which will use far too much useful space in
the average UK house - even if designed from scratch, as well as cost
dearly.

IMM loves combis because they get rid of the storage cylinder, header
tanks and the space they take up - but loves hot air systems which use
several times the space. Wonder who hasn't a clue?

What professional experience do you have of warm air systems? If you
have none, which is pretty clear you have none, then why do you
continually make a fool of yourself?

In article ,
timegoesby wrote:
What professional experience do you have of warm air systems? If you
have none, which is pretty clear you have none, then why do you
continually make a fool of yourself?

Why would I need to have professional experience of them to have an
opinion? Plenty on here have had experience of them - ie living with them
- and hate them. IMM, as usual, comes out with the no expense spared way
of saying they can be perfect, but the fact remains that for the vast
majority of UK homes they are inferior to a conventional water based
system.

I've asked IMM to give examples of his design work that others can check
up on to see if it does what he claims. If you're claiming to be another
'professional', perhaps you'd also give some?

FWIW, I work in broadcasting, and providing a reasonably quiet forced air
heating and ventilation system for areas which are no larger than many
domestic rooms is one of the most difficult - and expensive parts of the
whole installation. Perhaps unnecessary noise in the home doesn't bother
you - but it certainly does others, including me.

As regards making a fool of myself, if you're clever enough to design a
quite forced air ventilation system that could be incorporated into the
average UK house without losing valuable living space, you'd make a
fortune. Otherwise, *you're* the one making a fool of yourself - along
with IMM.

--
*He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
timegoesby wrote:
What professional experience do you have of warm air systems? If you
have none, which is pretty clear you have none, then why do you
continually make a fool of yourself?

Why would I need to have professional experience of them to have an
opinion? Plenty on here have had experience of them - ie living with them
- and hate them. IMM, as usual, comes out with the no expense spared way
of saying they can be perfect, but the fact remains that for the vast
majority of UK homes they are inferior to a conventional water based
system.


I, personaly, would re phrase that Dave to 'the fact remains that for the
vast majority of UK home pwners they more expencive to instal correctly than
conventional water based system.

snip

FWIW, I work in broadcasting, and providing a reasonably quiet forced air
heating and ventilation system for areas which are no larger than many
domestic rooms is one of the most difficult - and expensive parts of the
whole installation. Perhaps unnecessary noise in the home doesn't bother
you - but it certainly does others, including me.

So how do you cope with creeking pipes, and if you know of any TRV that
doesn't make a noise close to it's shut off setting please do tell....


As regards making a fool of myself, if you're clever enough to design a
quite forced air ventilation system that could be incorporated into the
average UK house without losing valuable living space, you'd make a
fortune. Otherwise, *you're* the one making a fool of yourself - along
with IMM.


Well it / is / possible, but it needs to be done at the time of house design
and not at the installation - I suspect that most domestic heating systems
are never designed as such, the plumber just installs what he knows to work
in the space left after the structure has been built IYSWIM (one of the
reasons why, I suspect, that under-floor heating was also slow to become
established here in the UK).

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
timegoesby wrote:

What professional experience do you have of warm air systems? If you
have none, which is pretty clear you have none, then why do you
continually make a fool of yourself?

Why would I need to have professional experience of them to have an
opinion? Plenty on here have had experience of them - ie living with
them
- and hate them. IMM, as usual, comes out with the no expense spared way
of saying they can be perfect,

IMM is also a ro and you have kipped down on your mates floor you has one,
with your yellow DeWalt boots and suddenly know all about them.

but the fact remains that for the vast
majority of UK homes they are inferior to a conventional water based
system.

I, personaly, would re phrase that Dave to 'the fact remains that for the
vast majority of UK home pwners they more expencive to instal correctly
than
conventional water based system.

Well said Jerry boy!

snip

FWIW, I work in broadcasting, and providing a reasonably quiet forced
air
heating and ventilation system for areas which are no larger than many
domestic rooms is one of the most difficult - and expensive parts of the
whole installation. Perhaps unnecessary noise in the home doesn't bother
you - but it certainly does others, including me.

So how do you cope with creeking pipes, and if you know of any TRV that
doesn't make a noise close to it's shut off setting please do tell....

In studio work, small air movements can be picked up by sensitive
microphones.

As regards making a fool of myself, if you're clever enough to design a
quite forced air ventilation system that could be incorporated into the
average UK house without losing valuable living space, you'd make a
fortune. Otherwise, *you're* the one making a fool of yourself - along
with IMM.

Well it / is / possible, but it needs to be done at the time of house
design
and not at the installation - I suspect that most domestic heating systems
are never designed as such, the plumber just installs what he knows to
work
in the space left after the structure has been built IYSWIM (one of the
reasons why, I suspect, that under-floor heating was also slow to become
established here in the UK).

Well said Jerry boy!

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip

In studio work, small air movements can be picked up by sensitive
microphones.


A little tip IMM, don't start to talk about studio's and especially
microphones / sound in the company of Mr Plowman, unless you REALLY DO know
your subject, ever wondered the reason for Dave's sig' line?...

BYW, don't call me 'boy', the only boy in this group is you IMM !

"Jerry." wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snip

In studio work, small air movements can be picked up by sensitive
microphones.


A little tip IMM, don't start to talk about studio's and especially
microphones / sound in the company of Mr Plowman,
unless you REALLY DO know
your subject, ever wondered the reason for Dave's sig' line?...

I have no wish to delve into such a boring subject. However I do know
microphones can pick up background sounds which the human ear filters out,
even directional microphones. I have a fried who is a sound film sound
engineer. Plowman is a bass and treble knob twitcher.

BYW, don't call me 'boy', the only
boy in this group is you IMM !

OK lad.