Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.

I.E. They could be either 35 cm from the edges, creating a "rectangle"
pattern, or 35 cm from the centre, creating a "square" pattern. What's
normal?

Thanks

In message , Winged Cat
writes
Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.

I.E. They could be either 35 cm from the edges, creating a "rectangle"
pattern, or 35 cm from the centre, creating a "square" pattern. What's
normal?

Normal?? whatever seems right I guess.

Going on the size of your room, if I was going to put them evenly spread
around the room I would put them in rectangle shape spaced somewhere
between 1/4 and 1/3 of the width/length of the room in from the walls.

something like this

* 80 *

90 90

* 80 *

However, I would suggest considering if that is the best way to arrange
them. IMO the spot nature of these lights makes them better suited to
arranging to have the light more specifically where you want it.

We have 12V spots downlighters in our bathroom. 5 in a room about 2.4 m
sq roughly. The lights are arranged so that 2 are over the bath (corner
bath) 1 over the hand basin (another corner) and 2 over the shower (in
the other corner These highlights and gives the light where you want it
most.

We also have two wall lights either side of the mirror on one wall.
These give better light for doing things to your face, and also give a
bit of ambient light around the bathroom. I would not to rely on just on
ceiling spots.

I have considered putting another one over the door area corner as that
doesn't have a spot, but it doesn't really need one from a functional
point of view, but aesthetically it would probably look slightly better
as
--
Chris French, Leeds

However, I would suggest considering if that is the best way to arrange
them. IMO the spot nature of these lights makes them better suited to
arranging to have the light more specifically where you want it.


Having just installed 12V downlights in my bathroom as well, I agree with
Chris. I took out a fluorescent fitting and installed 6 x 35W lamps. I can't
believe how much darker it is.

Winged Cat wrote:
Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.

"Normal" is "anything that works". The unquestionably best way of
finding what works is to tack the lights up temporarily - hold in place
with a single screw, say - and see what lighting pattern results.
Halogen spots give rather sharp shadows, with high resulting contrast
between the illuminated areas and the shadows. Experiment with
positioning until you're happyish - and also try some electrical
counters or on-line suppliers for wider-angle reflector bulbs (unless
your IP44 fittings use a capsule bulb and have their own reflector,
natch) - though sheds tend to sell only "spotlight" bulbs which
concentrate most of the light into a 20-degree-or-so beam, the mfrs also
make wider-angle blubs which roughly double that angle (38 degrees is
the nominal figure in my head), which can help to give more of a wash of
light than a number of illuminated pools.

You might also end up deciding to complement your spots with a
"background" tungsten source - maybe over the mirror above the sink, say?

HTH - Stefek

In article ,
(Winged Cat) writes:
Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.

The best position is in the wastebin.

Seriously, start with the assumption they won't be the main lighting
in the room -- they are useless for general lighting. They are also
horribly inefficient -- the lamps themselves aren't, but so little of
their light makes it to where you need it. If you really want some,
use them to accent features, in addition to the main room lighting.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Andrew Gabriel wrote:

In article ,
(Winged Cat) writes:

Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.


The best position is in the wastebin.

Seriously, start with the assumption they won't be the main lighting
in the room -- they are useless for general lighting. They are also
horribly inefficient -- the lamps themselves aren't, but so little of
their light makes it to where you need it. If you really want some,
use them to accent features, in addition to the main room lighting.

Not to totally disagree with you, because yes, you burn a lot of
candlepower to get overall illumination.

I have one toilet that is basically about 8x4ft, and that takes two 50W
LV's to illuminate it - one at each end.

I have a single 60W ordinary luminaire in another bathroom that is about
6ft x 6ft. Much better coverage.

Two further bathrooms of generous proportions have about 4 LV's in I
think each.


Each lamp tends to cover a 2 meter diameter circle at floor level, and
obcviouly about half that higher up.

(Andrew Gabriel) wrote in message ...
In article ,
(Winged Cat) writes:
Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.

SNIP ADVICE

Thanks for all your comments on this. I must admit I am worried the
room will be too dark. I have got 4*35w bulbs, 38 degree beam, but
seeing as the room is only 190 * 170, and currently illuminated with a
single 60W bulb, I am hoping it will not be noticeably darker. If it
is, I can replace the 35W bulbs with 50W, and still be within the
allowable range of the transformer and light fittings.

So as to the positioning of them I will use trial and error. I thought
there might be a standard way of going about it (like tiling - always
have whole tiles at the bottom) but I see the sense in taking the room
and its uses into account.

I don't fancy binning them just yet. I've gone to quite lot of trouble
replacing the ceiling already (used to be Artex).

"Winged Cat" wrote
| Thanks for all your comments on this. I must admit I am worried
| the room will be too dark.

The thing with bathroom lighting is that halogen lights usually just throw
light onto the floor. But for shaving and make-up, *sideways* lighting is
required, particularly for shaving which really needs upwards lighting to
illuminate the chin. With halogens you will have comparatively little
reflection from walls to provide this.

Owain

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Winged Cat) writes:
Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.

The best position is in the wastebin.

Seriously, start with the assumption they won't be the main lighting
in the room -- they are useless for general lighting. They are also
horribly inefficient -- the lamps themselves aren't, but so little of
their light makes it to where you need it. If you really want some,
use them to accent features, in addition to the main room lighting.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Although I normally tend to agree with Andrew's pronouncements, this is not
my experience. When I did my bathroom, I replaced a 100w central tungsten
bulb with 6x35w 12v spots. The room (approx 2700x1750) is much brighter
than before and SWMBO loves it. I do agree, however, about positioning
aspect. I tried to place mine so that there were few shadows over the basin,
etc and ended up with an elongated U-shaped arrangement.

John Miller

In message , Owain
writes
"Winged Cat" wrote
| Thanks for all your comments on this. I must admit I am worried
| the room will be too dark.

The thing with bathroom lighting is that halogen lights usually just throw
light onto the floor. But for shaving and make-up, *sideways* lighting is
required, particularly for shaving which really needs upwards lighting to
illuminate the chin. With halogens you will have comparatively little
reflection from walls to provide this.

Yep, which is why we have wall lighting as well by the mirror at face
height for this purpose as well.

I would have this anyway as a single central light (say) would leave the
face in shadow
--
Chris French, Leeds

John Miller wrote:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Winged Cat) writes:
Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.

The best position is in the wastebin.

Seriously, start with the assumption they won't be the main lighting
in the room -- they are useless for general lighting. They are also
horribly inefficient -- the lamps themselves aren't, but so little of
their light makes it to where you need it. If you really want some,
use them to accent features, in addition to the main room lighting.

--
Andrew Gabriel

Although I normally tend to agree with Andrew's pronouncements, this is not
my experience. When I did my bathroom, I replaced a 100w central tungsten
bulb with 6x35w 12v spots. The room (approx 2700x1750) is much brighter
than before and SWMBO loves it. I do agree, however, about positioning
aspect. I tried to place mine so that there were few shadows over the basin,
etc and ended up with an elongated U-shaped arrangement.

Since you now have almost twice the wattage of lights which are at
least twice as efficient you have something like four times as much
light so it's hardly surprising it seems brighter. One the other hand
100 watts of fluorescent ligting of some sort would probably make it
seem brighter still, have fewer shadows and use less electricity
(though I suppose bathroom lights aren't on for long periods so
efficiency isn't so important).

--
Chris Green

"Stefek Zaba" wrote in message
...
Winged Cat wrote:
Hi

concentrate most of the light into a 20-degree-or-so beam, the mfrs also
make wider-angle blubs which roughly double that angle (38 degrees is
the nominal figure in my head), which can help to give more of a wash of
light than a number of illuminated pools.

You can also get 60 degree bulbs.

"Winged Cat" wrote in message
om...
Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.


There are several free illumination designer programs ... where you input
your room sizes & wall materials, and you can place as many lights and of
what types you want and it will calculate and visually show light spread &
shadows, you can play about as much as you want.

They are free .... Thron, Illuma, Osram etc. will send you the CD for
free.

Rick

wrote in message ...
John Miller wrote:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message Snipped

Although I normally tend to agree with Andrew's pronouncements, this is
not
my experience. When I did my bathroom, I replaced a 100w central
tungsten
bulb with 6x35w 12v spots. The room (approx 2700x1750) is much brighter
than before and SWMBO loves it. I do agree, however, about positioning
aspect. I tried to place mine so that there were few shadows over the
basin,
etc and ended up with an elongated U-shaped arrangement.

Since you now have almost twice the wattage of lights which are at
least twice as efficient you have something like four times as much
light so it's hardly surprising it seems brighter. One the other hand
100 watts of fluorescent ligting of some sort would probably make it
seem brighter still, have fewer shadows and use less electricity
(though I suppose bathroom lights aren't on for long periods so
efficiency isn't so important).

--
Chris Green

Thanks for the lecture Chris, but I had worked that out - however, SWMBO
refused point-blank to consider any form of fluorescent lighting. I was
simply making the point that it is possible to achieve a decent light with
the 12v spots. I'm sorry if that offends your sensibilities.

John Miller

Rick Hughes wrote:

You can also get 60 degree bulbs.

Ooh, really? Haven't noticed such on offer: d'you know of any
small-quantity outlets?

"Rick Hughes" wrote in message ...
"Winged Cat" wrote in message
om...
Hi
I am going to fit four LV IP44 halogen spotlights in my bathroom
ceiling. The room is 190 * 175, and I am trying to decide on the best
positioning of the lights. I don't know whether to arrange the lights
equidistant from the centre of the ceiling, or equidistant from the
edges, IYSWIM.


There are several free illumination designer programs ... where you input
your room sizes & wall materials, and you can place as many lights and of
what types you want and it will calculate and visually show light spread &
shadows, you can play about as much as you want.

They are free .... Thron, Illuma, Osram etc. will send you the CD for
free.

Rick

Thanks... I have had a look at the Osram one and decided to have one
extra halogen light to make 5, plus extra illumination by the mirror,
and I think this should get rid of the shadows, and make the room
bright enough.

I have played about with the positioning but it's not easy to get an
idea of the effect without a ceiling! I have noticed that the floor is
incredibly bright but further up the walls it is quite dim. Perhaps
this effect will lessen once the ceiling is up. 60 degree bulbs will
probably help too.

See http://www.skywalker.freeserve.co.uk/loftlights.jpg if you're
interested.