Would it be OK to charge on of these:


https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

--
Cheers, Rob

On Fri, 7 May 2021 21:26:16 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:

Would it be OK to charge on of these:


https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

I'd say 'yes', assuming it contains a 12V LA battery (it looks like it
does) and the chare rate is kept low, (say around C/20 of 17.2Ah =
~1A).

What is the current output of the supplied charger OOI? As long as you
are less-than or equal to that you should be fine.

As it's a maintenance-free (likely 'sealed') battery, I wouldn't
charge it any higher than 5A or if you did, for too long (and keep an
eye on the battery temperature (with your fingers) if you can get to
it easily). Any sign of any real warmth, stop.

The only reservation re charging back though the output leads might be
what constitutes the 'overload protection', but nothing any output
indicator on the charger or your voltmeter wouldn't determine.

That's the sort of job an Optimate 2 was designed for (as it can be
left on indefinitely). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

RJH wrote:
Would it be OK to charge on of these:


https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?


Charger = 15V @ 500mA for K640046

https://www.walteronline.com/en/acce...arger-p3956016

Product pictures. Vorne and Hinten.





Switch for jump-starter leads.



Switch for compressor is not shown in detail. Noise warning sticker. 10 minute run limit.

https://www.walteronline.com/Produkt...nks

Note mains connector.

https://www.walteronline.com/Produkt...eraet@ 2x.png

Considering the battery could be a sealed lead acid with
limited regeneration rate, and the battery is 12V @ 17.2Ah,
that's probably a good rate. That's like a third of an
automotive battery. It could be a sealed battery, not
intended to leak hydrogen into the room (it still has to be
vented for safety - like a vent that opens at 5 bar).

If connecting your own charger, I'd use a smart charger
with charge current in the ballpark. Say, a 2A charger max.
Don't use an old dumb charger (transformer plus selenium
rectifier), because the current flow is rather uncontrolled.

Since you won't be running it all the way down, it will
never take 34 hours to charge with the included adapter.
Maybe 6 hours to top up, after a usage. The unit should
really have undervoltage cutoff, to protect the battery.
Since it has overcurrent protection, the protection
device can be used for more than one function (like, a
relay or contactor for heavy current).

Note that there is a switch to switch on the battery leads!
The switch contacts are not rated at 150A, but some other
contactor inside might be worked by the switch or something.
This might present some issues for forcing charge in
through the croc clips.

A battery that small is going to be limited on CCA.
You won't be able to start a vehicle with that unit alone.
The battery in the vehicle also has to help.

The larger Walter jump starter, has 240A max output. This
unit, no spec is offered for the max output (overcurrent protect).
Neither is there any mention of undervoltage cutoff. The
USB SMPS for the phone charger, that should have an
undervoltage cutoff, to avoid damaging the battery
by draining to zero.

But since Walter offers no downloadable manual, we're forced
to guess by looking at tiny pictures of the product. I don't
buy products without a user manual, for this very reason,
poor marketing materials online.

Paul

On 08/05/2021 05:30, Paul wrote:

This might present some issues for forcing charge in
through the croc clips.

There may also be some diodes in series to prevent "back" charging or to
prevent accidental damage when a 12V unit is connected to 24V.

Albeit a lithium battery based unit, my battery booster has a diodes in
the +ve lead.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
This might present some issues for forcing charge in
through the croc clips.

There may also be some diodes in series to prevent "back" charging or to
prevent accidental damage when a 12V unit is connected to 24V.

They'd be some diodes to carry starter current. And the voltage drop
through those is something you don't want when jump starting under extreme
conditions.

--
*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 08/05/2021 11:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
alan_m wrote:
This might present some issues for forcing charge in
through the croc clips.

There may also be some diodes in series to prevent "back" charging or to
prevent accidental damage when a 12V unit is connected to 24V.

They'd be some diodes to carry starter current. And the voltage drop
through those is something you don't want when jump starting under extreme
conditions.


Big Clive video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8zghvQZYNM

https://youtu.be/0tGK1nqXr28?t=685

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 7 May 2021 at 23:33:19 BST, "T i m" wrote:

On Fri, 7 May 2021 21:26:16 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:

Would it be OK to charge on of these:



https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

I'd say 'yes', assuming it contains a 12V LA battery (it looks like it
does) and the chare rate is kept low, (say around C/20 of 17.2Ah =
~1A).

What is the current output of the supplied charger OOI? As long as you
are less-than or equal to that you should be fine.

As it's a maintenance-free (likely 'sealed') battery, I wouldn't
charge it any higher than 5A or if you did, for too long (and keep an
eye on the battery temperature (with your fingers) if you can get to
it easily). Any sign of any real warmth, stop.

The only reservation re charging back though the output leads might be
what constitutes the 'overload protection', but nothing any output
indicator on the charger or your voltmeter wouldn't determine.

That's the sort of job an Optimate 2 was designed for (as it can be
left on indefinitely). ;-)


Thanks - it is a LA sealed battery, and I've got one of those Lidl
'intelligent' chargers, which I'd guess is quite gentle.



--
Cheers, Rob

On 8 May 2021 at 05:30:15 BST, "Paul" wrote:

RJH wrote:
Would it be OK to charge on of these:



https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?


Charger = 15V @ 500mA for K640046

https://www.walteronline.com/en/acce...arger-p3956016

Product pictures. Vorne and Hinten.







Switch for jump-starter leads.




That's actually the compressor switch. The jump leads are permanently live.


Switch for compressor is not shown in detail. Noise warning sticker. 10
minute run limit.


https://www.walteronline.com/Produkt...nks

Note mains connector.


https://www.walteronline.com/Produkt...eraet@ 2x.png

It was from Aldi so came with a UK plug/PSU. That's actually why I'm asking,
in part. The insulation/wire going i to the PSU has broken down a little.


Considering the battery could be a sealed lead acid with
limited regeneration rate, and the battery is 12V @ 17.2Ah,
that's probably a good rate. That's like a third of an
automotive battery. It could be a sealed battery, not
intended to leak hydrogen into the room (it still has to be
vented for safety - like a vent that opens at 5 bar).

Yes, that's the battery. I had to open it up after I posted because the USB
switch got stuck. Took complete disassembly to get to it - squirt of contact
leaner and all's good.


If connecting your own charger, I'd use a smart charger
with charge current in the ballpark. Say, a 2A charger max.
Don't use an old dumb charger (transformer plus selenium
rectifier), because the current flow is rather uncontrolled.

Since you won't be running it all the way down, it will
never take 34 hours to charge with the included adapter.
Maybe 6 hours to top up, after a usage. The unit should
really have undervoltage cutoff, to protect the battery.
Since it has overcurrent protection, the protection
device can be used for more than one function (like, a
relay or contactor for heavy current).

Note that there is a switch to switch on the battery leads!
The switch contacts are not rated at 150A, but some other
contactor inside might be worked by the switch or something.
This might present some issues for forcing charge in
through the croc clips.

A battery that small is going to be limited on CCA.
You won't be able to start a vehicle with that unit alone.
The battery in the vehicle also has to help.

I think it has pretensions of jump starting - but I've never needed it. I'll
be using it as low rent leisure battery, just for things like phone charging,
tyres, lights.

The larger Walter jump starter, has 240A max output. This
unit, no spec is offered for the max output (overcurrent protect).
Neither is there any mention of undervoltage cutoff. The
USB SMPS for the phone charger, that should have an
undervoltage cutoff, to avoid damaging the battery
by draining to zero.

But since Walter offers no downloadable manual, we're forced
to guess by looking at tiny pictures of the product. I don't
buy products without a user manual, for this very reason,
poor marketing materials online.

It did come with a manual. And there is one on that page I linked to. Amongst
other things, it says 'charge monthly'. I think I've charged it 5 times in 5
years, and then only to top up. It's been barely used.

So, thanks, overall I think you're saying it should work.

FYI, the jump leads connect direct to the battery, nothing inline. Two smaller
wires feed direct to the other gubbins from the battery. I suppose my concern
is that the charger might push something unpleasant along those smaller wires.
But quite what, if anything, is way beyond my pay grade . . .


--
Cheers, Rob

On 8 May 2021 at 11:16:56 BST, ""Dave Plowman" News)"
wrote:

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
This might present some issues for forcing charge in
through the croc clips.

There may also be some diodes in series to prevent "back" charging or to
prevent accidental damage when a 12V unit is connected to 24V.

They'd be some diodes to carry starter current. And the voltage drop
through those is something you don't want when jump starting under extreme
conditions.

Nothing I could see - the jump leads bolt directly onto the battery
terminals.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Sat, 8 May 2021 12:52:28 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:

snip

That's the sort of job an Optimate 2 was designed for (as it can be
left on indefinitely). ;-)


Thanks - it is a LA sealed battery, and I've got one of those Lidl
'intelligent' chargers, which I'd guess is quite gentle.

Well, ours has two rates (indicated by the symbol of a car or a
motorbike) and so yes, the motorcyle setting could be considered
better for that capacity / design of battery.

Yours could state on it the rate(s)?

Cheers, T i m

RJH wrote:
On 8 May 2021 at 05:30:15 BST, "Paul" wrote:

RJH wrote:
Would it be OK to charge on of these:



https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

Charger = 15V @ 500mA for K640046

https://www.walteronline.com/en/acce...arger-p3956016

Product pictures. Vorne and Hinten.







Switch for jump-starter leads.




That's actually the compressor switch. The jump leads are permanently live.

Switch for compressor is not shown in detail. Noise warning sticker. 10
minute run limit.


https://www.walteronline.com/Produkt...nks

Note mains connector.


https://www.walteronline.com/Produkt...eraet@ 2x.png

It was from Aldi so came with a UK plug/PSU. That's actually why I'm asking,
in part. The insulation/wire going i to the PSU has broken down a little.

Considering the battery could be a sealed lead acid with
limited regeneration rate, and the battery is 12V @ 17.2Ah,
that's probably a good rate. That's like a third of an
automotive battery. It could be a sealed battery, not
intended to leak hydrogen into the room (it still has to be
vented for safety - like a vent that opens at 5 bar).

Yes, that's the battery. I had to open it up after I posted because the USB
switch got stuck. Took complete disassembly to get to it - squirt of contact
leaner and all's good.

If connecting your own charger, I'd use a smart charger
with charge current in the ballpark. Say, a 2A charger max.
Don't use an old dumb charger (transformer plus selenium
rectifier), because the current flow is rather uncontrolled.

Since you won't be running it all the way down, it will
never take 34 hours to charge with the included adapter.
Maybe 6 hours to top up, after a usage. The unit should
really have undervoltage cutoff, to protect the battery.
Since it has overcurrent protection, the protection
device can be used for more than one function (like, a
relay or contactor for heavy current).

Note that there is a switch to switch on the battery leads!
The switch contacts are not rated at 150A, but some other
contactor inside might be worked by the switch or something.
This might present some issues for forcing charge in
through the croc clips.

A battery that small is going to be limited on CCA.
You won't be able to start a vehicle with that unit alone.
The battery in the vehicle also has to help.

I think it has pretensions of jump starting - but I've never needed it. I'll
be using it as low rent leisure battery, just for things like phone charging,
tyres, lights.
The larger Walter jump starter, has 240A max output. This
unit, no spec is offered for the max output (overcurrent protect).
Neither is there any mention of undervoltage cutoff. The
USB SMPS for the phone charger, that should have an
undervoltage cutoff, to avoid damaging the battery
by draining to zero.

But since Walter offers no downloadable manual, we're forced
to guess by looking at tiny pictures of the product. I don't
buy products without a user manual, for this very reason,
poor marketing materials online.

It did come with a manual. And there is one on that page I linked to. Amongst
other things, it says 'charge monthly'. I think I've charged it 5 times in 5
years, and then only to top up. It's been barely used.

So, thanks, overall I think you're saying it should work.

FYI, the jump leads connect direct to the battery, nothing inline. Two smaller
wires feed direct to the other gubbins from the battery. I suppose my concern
is that the charger might push something unpleasant along those smaller wires.
But quite what, if anything, is way beyond my pay grade . . .

You might not want to have both chargers connected at the
same time. That's the only case I can think of that might
be an issue. If the external charger went to over 15V, there
might be an issue this way.

15V 500mA --------- charger ----------- battery ------ === external charger
PCB

Should be OK like this, with 15V input open-circuit.
The charger PCB has to be able to "withstand" the potential
offered by the battery. And that should (to be safe) be
designed to cover up to 18V, when the charger PCB is open
circuit on the left side. It's when the charger PCB has a power
source connected on the left, there might be a failure
case to worry about, moving current from right to left. The
wall adapter might not like that particularly.

X--------- charger ----------- battery ------ === external charger
PCB

If you were to use the product to start a car, the car alternator will
be pushing current from right to left, just like the external charger
will be. So they have to handle the case of the alternator putting say,
14.4V on the right.

Paul

On Sat, 8 May 2021 13:04:35 +0000 (UTC), RJH
wrote:

snip

FYI, the jump leads connect direct to the battery, nothing inline.

Ideal then (for you proposed solution).

Two smaller
wires feed direct to the other gubbins from the battery.

So charge indicators (if there are any), the USB board or even the
socket for the supplied charger etc.

I suppose my concern
is that the charger might push something unpleasant along those smaller wires.

Unlikely unless the battery is open circuit and a smart charger has a
de-sulphation phase that might try to pulse the battery with higher
volts etc. Otherwise, *any* charging of that battery is going to 'push
whatever along those wires. ;-)

But quite what, if anything, is way beyond my pay grade . . .

(As an aside ...) It still sounds wrong when people say that, although
I understand it *also* covers knowledge about something, rather than
the level of authority / responsibility over others. ;-)

https://www.macmillandictionary.com/...ve-my-paygrade

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
RJH wrote:
Thanks - it is a LA sealed battery, and I've got one of those Lidl
'intelligent' chargers, which I'd guess is quite gentle.

That's how I charge my Lidl jump start pack. One of the very first things
I bought from Lidl perhaps 20 years ago. The compressor no longer works,
and I've replaced the battery. ;-) But it did very well for the price -
about half that of the Halfords equivalent.

--
*The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 08/05/2021 11:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
alan_m wrote:
This might present some issues for forcing charge in
through the croc clips.

There may also be some diodes in series to prevent "back" charging or to
prevent accidental damage when a 12V unit is connected to 24V.

They'd be some diodes to carry starter current. And the voltage drop
through those is something you don't want when jump starting under
extreme
conditions.


Big Clive video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8zghvQZYNM

https://youtu.be/0tGK1nqXr28?t=685

Fascinating bugger.

On Sun, 9 May 2021 04:20:47 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On 07/05/2021 22:26, RJH wrote:
Would it be OK to charge on of these:


https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

IME these are pretty indifferent products, they don't contain much of a
battery, and the compressors are feeble too. Being lead acid you do have
to keep them charged regularly.

I have a couple of Lithium Ion car starters, and they are brilliant. The
smallest is literally pocketable, about half the size of a standard
paperback and will still fit in a jacket pocket with the leads and big
croc clips. This is more than enough for a 1.3 petrol engine.

The larger is about 20x10x6cm and I am sure would do a large petrol or
small diesel engine.

IME these hold their charge very well, I probably only check them once
or twice a year.

The tyre pump that comes with my Honda is pretty good, and I have
something like this for my 3500 van.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasic...dp/B074DD8NVY/

which has a great deal more "oomph" than the toy things that are
sometimes on offer at petrol stations.

On Sat, 8 May 2021 20:21:53 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 07/05/2021 22:26, RJH wrote:
Would it be OK to charge on of these:


https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

IME these are pretty indifferent products, they don't contain much of a
battery, and the compressors are feeble too. Being lead acid you do have
to keep them charged regularly.

+1

I have a couple of Lithium Ion car starters, and they are brilliant. The
smallest is literally pocketable, about half the size of a standard
paperback and will still fit in a jacket pocket with the leads and big
croc clips. This is more than enough for a 1.3 petrol engine.

The larger is about 20x10x6cm and I am sure would do a large petrol or
small diesel engine.

I have one also and used it several times in succession (as an
experiment) to start step-daughters Seat Ibiza when something (we
think the inbuilt radio) was killing the battery every 3-4 days when
it was left unused. You would literally *just* get a weak ignition
light yet the lithium pack would allow it to start on the button.

IME these hold their charge very well, I probably only check them once
or twice a year.

I was asked to move the kitcar by some utility co and it hadn't moved
for months. Whilst the battery was 'ok' and would still have started
it had it fired up quickly, it didn't and so I just nipped in and got
the lithium pack, hooked it up and it span the engine up long enough
to get some petrol up and away it went. As you say, that hadn't been
charged for months yet even after that (prolonged) starting, it was
still showing a couple (out of it's 4) lights.

The tyre pump that comes with my Honda is pretty good, and I have
something like this for my 3500 van.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasic...dp/B074DD8NVY/

which has a great deal more "oomph" than the toy things that are
sometimes on offer at petrol stations.

I have also a separate 12V pump that has also worked well for several
(well 4 g) tyre complete re-inflations on the trot (after installing
Punctureseal etc). Many cheaper things would have melted before that.

Like yours it allows you to set the desired pressure and switches
itself off when it gets there (just as well as it is quite loud so I
prefer to move away when it's running for any prolonged period). ;-(

I keep both that and the single mechanical foot pump in the car.

Cheers, T i m

On 08/05/2021 20:45, T i m wrote:


I have also a separate 12V pump that has also worked well for several
(well 4 g) tyre complete re-inflations on the trot (after installing
Punctureseal etc). Many cheaper things would have melted before that.

Like yours it allows you to set the desired pressure and switches
itself off when it gets there (just as well as it is quite loud so I
prefer to move away when it's running for any prolonged period). ;-(

I keep both that and the single mechanical foot pump in the car.

I used to keep a spare inner tube and a short "bicycle" pump under the
seat of my motorbike. I only ever had rear punctures. The one time I had
a front tyre deflate when riding was when I was rescuing someone else's
bike, and that turned out to be a faulty patch on the tube. I *never*
patched front tyres after that.

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 07/05/2021 22:26, RJH wrote:
Would it be OK to charge on of these:


https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

IME these are pretty indifferent products, they don't contain much of a
battery, and the compressors are feeble too. Being lead acid you do have
to keep them charged regularly.

Eh? Lead acid self discharge very slowly.

I have a couple of Lithium Ion car starters, and they are brilliant. The
smallest is literally pocketable, about half the size of a standard
paperback and will still fit in a jacket pocket with the leads and big
croc clips. This is more than enough for a 1.3 petrol engine.

Interesting. The Lidl jump start pack I mentioned which has an 18 amp.hr
gel battery has been used to start my 3.5 litre V8 Rover. Recently. The
Li-Ion one I also have says up to 2 litres and this was certainly true, as
it wouldn't even attempt to turn the engine.

The larger is about 20x10x6cm and I am sure would do a large petrol or
small diesel engine.

I'd want to be certain, rather than sure. Check the specs for starting
current, not so called peak. And the capacity of these Li-Ion packs (at a
reasonable price) are much less than the equvalent lead acid types. Oddly,
they all seem to quote in mA.hr. Wonder why that would be, since car
related batteries are always amp.hr.

IME these hold their charge very well, I probably only check them once
or twice a year.

The tyre pump that comes with my Honda is pretty good, and I have
something like this for my 3500 van.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasic...dp/B074DD8NVY/

which has a great deal more "oomph" than the toy things that are
sometimes on offer at petrol stations.

--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 8 May 2021 20:57:00 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

I keep both that and the single mechanical foot pump in the car.

I used to keep a spare inner tube and a short "bicycle" pump under the
seat of my motorbike.

I carried a spare wheel on my Lambretta. ;-)

I think the old BMW motorbikes came with (or was an option to come
with) a cycle style pump up the main tube accessible from opening the
saddle.

I only ever had rear punctures.

I don't have punctures any more (Punctureseal). ;-)

The one time I had
a front tyre deflate when riding was when I was rescuing someone else's
bike,

(often the way it seems, 'no good deed not going unpunished' etc... )

and that turned out to be a faulty patch on the tube. I *never*
patched front tyres after that.

I have taken on many a second hand cycle and found that patches just
peel off the tube, suggesting they were only stuck on with spit?

Luckily, most of my motorbikes ran tubeless tyres (as do my trailers
now).

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 09 May 2021 13:31:57 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 07/05/2021 22:26, RJH wrote:
Would it be OK to charge on of these:


https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

IME these are pretty indifferent products, they don't contain much of a
battery, and the compressors are feeble too. Being lead acid you do have
to keep them charged regularly.

Eh? Lead acid self discharge very slowly.

But maybe they discharge quicker than lithium?

I have a couple of Lithium Ion car starters, and they are brilliant. The
smallest is literally pocketable, about half the size of a standard
paperback and will still fit in a jacket pocket with the leads and big
croc clips. This is more than enough for a 1.3 petrol engine.

Interesting. The Lidl jump start pack I mentioned which has an 18 amp.hr
gel battery has been used to start my 3.5 litre V8 Rover. Recently. The
Li-Ion one I also have says up to 2 litres and this was certainly true, as
it wouldn't even attempt to turn the engine.

But those results don't seem to match the general experiences of
others. I have at 2 'shells' of LA based 'booster packs' that used to
contain ~17AH sealed LA batteries that were written off because the
batteries died, often from lack-of-use and you could generally buy a
complete new unit for less than the price of a replacement battery. I
did re-battery one once then when that was found dead, never bothered
again.

The larger is about 20x10x6cm and I am sure would do a large petrol or
small diesel engine.

I'd want to be certain, rather than sure.

I've started daughters 1800 diesel Connect with my Lithium pack and it
did so easily? That said, as long as it can spin over a couple of
times at a reasonable rate it does seem to start fairly easily.

Check the specs for starting
current, not so called peak. And the capacity of these Li-Ion packs (at a
reasonable price)

I'm not sure they are Li-Ion but Li-Poly?

are much less than the equvalent lead acid types. Oddly,
they all seem to quote in mA.hr. Wonder why that would be, since car
related batteries are always amp.hr.

I think it's because they have come from an environment (RC Models
etc) where batteries were generally rated in mA. shrug

However, a pocket sized LiPo could have the same CCA as a LA battery
10x the size.

Cheers, T i m

On 09/05/2021 13:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 07/05/2021 22:26, RJH wrote:
Would it be OK to charge on of these:


https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

IME these are pretty indifferent products, they don't contain much of a
battery, and the compressors are feeble too. Being lead acid you do have
to keep them charged regularly.

Eh? Lead acid self discharge very slowly.

Try leaving one for six months. Also, I bet most of these contain
bargain basement batteries.

In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 09/05/2021 13:31, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:
On 07/05/2021 22:26, RJH wrote:
Would it be OK to charge on of these:


https://www.walteronline.com/en/tool...mpressor-p3155

(jump starter/compressor/light/USB) by connecting the jump leads to a car
battery charger, rather than use the supplied AC adapter?

IME these are pretty indifferent products, they don't contain much of a
battery, and the compressors are feeble too. Being lead acid you do have
to keep them charged regularly.

Eh? Lead acid self discharge very slowly.

Try leaving one for six months. Also, I bet most of these contain
bargain basement batteries.

Are you saying a Li-Ion one - which starts off with less capacity - is
going to be fine after 6 months, like for like? I'd say most Li-Ion jump
start packs ain't got the finest either, by the price.

--
*I get enough exercise just pushing my luck.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 00:35:35 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

Try leaving one for six months. Also, I bet most of these contain
bargain basement batteries.

Are you saying a Li-Ion one - which starts off with less capacity

Whilst it may start off with less Ah capacity, it may well have a
greater cold cranking current so more likely to start a car, assuming
it's willing to start easily.

- is
going to be fine after 6 months, like for like?

Yes.

I'd say most Li-Ion jump
start packs ain't got the finest either, by the price.

But I'm not sure they need to, given what sort of CCA even low spec
ones can output.

If you want a bit of a rambling redneck overview of a LA V Li pack
(all be they way different prices):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwA78cGULDY

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 00:35:35 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

Try leaving one for six months. Also, I bet most of these contain
bargain basement batteries.

Are you saying a Li-Ion one - which starts off with less capacity

Whilst it may start off with less Ah capacity, it may well have a
greater cold cranking current so more likely to start a car, assuming
it's willing to start easily.

Cold cranking is the one to look for. Looking at specs for these Li-Ion
packs, they seem to do anything other than quote in the same way as you'd
expect with a lead acid battery. I'm sure it's not a problem with a small
engine, but can be if looking for one which will cope with a bigger one
and maybe diesel.
- is
going to be fine after 6 months, like for like?

Yes.

I'd say most Li-Ion jump
start packs ain't got the finest either, by the price.

But I'm not sure they need to, given what sort of CCA even low spec
ones can output.

But for how long? They all seem to be much lower capacity than the older
lead acid jump packs. Not a problem if the engine starts instantly, but
this may not be the case with an engine where a start was attempted with a
very low battery and failed - hence needing the jump start.

If you want a bit of a rambling redneck overview of a LA V Li pack
(all be they way different prices):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwA78cGULDY

Cheers, T i m

--
*Many hamsters only blink one eye at a time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/05/2021 10:47, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 00:35:35 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

Try leaving one for six months. Also, I bet most of these contain
bargain basement batteries.

Are you saying a Li-Ion one - which starts off with less capacity

Whilst it may start off with less Ah capacity, it may well have a
greater cold cranking current so more likely to start a car, assuming
it's willing to start easily.

- is
going to be fine after 6 months, like for like?

Yes.

I'd say most Li-Ion jump
start packs ain't got the finest either, by the price.

But I'm not sure they need to, given what sort of CCA even low spec
ones can output.


+1

That's been my experience.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 14:04:23 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip
I'd say most Li-Ion jump
start packs ain't got the finest either, by the price.

But I'm not sure they need to, given what sort of CCA even low spec
ones can output.


+1

That's been my experience.

I'm not sure Dave has ever actually played with one of these Lithium
(poly, not Ion?) jump-starter packs as then I think he would 'get it'
easier. ;-)

You go to a car, turn the key and you just see dim dashboard lights
and the starter solenoid not even pulling in.

You take the lithium pack *out of your pocket*, clip it on the
battery, get back in the car and turn the key and see fully bright
dash lights. You then turn the key and hear the engine spinning over
'faster' than normal and (if it's ok), starting on the button. ;-)

You go back round to the battery, unclip it (it's not been taking any
charge away from the main battery at any time) and put it back in your
pocket. ;-)

6 months later you find you need to repeat the process, so you take
the pack out of your glove compartment and start another car ...
without having to re-charge or even top up the pack from last time.

I have done pretty well all the above with the Lithium pack I was
given by my local motorcycle shop (I think they were selling them for
£39 or so) and started what became stepdaughters Seat Ibiza several
times whilst it was parked up before she took it on (and it had a
fault that flattened the battery every 3 days or so ... and wasn't
really being charged in between).

I walked there with the Lithium battery in my pocket knowing that my
mate had his big jumper battery on a trolley in the garage opposite,
should I need it. I didn't. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Mon, 10 May 2021 11:15:57 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

Whilst it may start off with less Ah capacity, it may well have a
greater cold cranking current so more likely to start a car, assuming
it's willing to start easily.

Cold cranking is the one to look for.

Yup.

Looking at specs for these Li-Ion
packs,

Are they Li-Ion though? Mine is Li-Po?

If you don't know they are actually Li-Ion I'd just call them
'lithium' fir these purposes.

they seem to do anything other than quote in the same way as you'd
expect with a lead acid battery. I'm sure it's not a problem with a small
engine, but can be if looking for one which will cope with a bigger one
and maybe diesel.

As mentioned elsewhere, would you count an 1800 diesel in a Transit
Connect that wouldn't even start to crank it over to be a suitable
test? If so, my cheapo (well, free to me) Lithium pack started it
easily. ;-)

- is
going to be fine after 6 months, like for like?

Yes.

I'd say most Li-Ion jump
start packs ain't got the finest either, by the price.

But I'm not sure they need to, given what sort of CCA even low spec
ones can output.

But for how long?

Long enough to start a car that won't on it's own (probably several
times on one charge)?

They all seem to be much lower capacity than the older
lead acid jump packs.

Yes, but they aren't the same thing so you can't easily compare that
particular value. It's like trying to compare the performance of an
old design 1300 with a modern, fuel injected and turbo'd 1300.

Not a problem if the engine starts instantly, but
this may not be the case with an engine where a start was attempted with a
very low battery and failed - hence needing the jump start.

Nope, still not really a problem, as long as it isn't 'too' long.

I would say my (pocket sized) battery can spin an engine over faster
and as long as any portable LA based 'Jump start pack' I've ever owned
did. The big difference is I can't get the old one in my pocket and
the battery is usually shot by the time I dug it out to use again (and
so generally using an old car battery I've kept and some std jump
leads). Now, part of that may well have been because they were only
'cheap' packs (often on special from the local Car Parts place or
Maplin etc (but still with a 17AH sealed LA battery in it where the
spec suggests it was never meant for a SLI role).

Cheers, T i m

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I'm not sure Dave has ever actually played with one of these Lithium
(poly, not Ion?) jump-starter packs as then I think he would 'get it'
easier. ;-)

I've got one. But it doesn't give maximum starting amps - only so called
maximum amps. And that figure doesn't relate to the amps my starter takes,
as that is less - yet it wouldn't spin the engine.

But I bought it as a power pack for other things, so not wasted.

--
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 15:26:24 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I'm not sure Dave has ever actually played with one of these Lithium
(poly, not Ion?) jump-starter packs as then I think he would 'get it'
easier. ;-)

I've got one.

OK ...

But it doesn't give maximum starting amps - only so called
maximum amps.

Yes, some of the cheaper ones (especially) are a bit vague that way.

And that figure doesn't relate to the amps my starter takes,
as that is less -

Ok.

yet it wouldn't spin the engine.

And was sold as a jump starter pack?

But I bought it as a power pack for other things, so not wasted.

But it came with jumper cable type crock clips etc?

Cheers, T i m

On 10/05/2021 15:37, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 15:26:24 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I'm not sure Dave has ever actually played with one of these Lithium
(poly, not Ion?) jump-starter packs as then I think he would 'get it'
easier. ;-)

I've got one.

OK ...

But it doesn't give maximum starting amps - only so called
maximum amps.

Yes, some of the cheaper ones (especially) are a bit vague that way.

And that figure doesn't relate to the amps my starter takes,
as that is less -

Ok.

yet it wouldn't spin the engine.

And was sold as a jump starter pack?

But I bought it as a power pack for other things, so not wasted.

But it came with jumper cable type crock clips etc?

Cheers, T i m

He'd need a reasonably meaty one for the Rover. The other thing to check
is that the croc clips are making good contact. I had mine out for the
petrol topper the other day and nothing much happened, then I jiggled
the croc clips and away it went.

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 10/05/2021 10:47, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 00:35:35 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

snip

Try leaving one for six months. Also, I bet most of these contain
bargain basement batteries.

Are you saying a Li-Ion one - which starts off with less capacity

Whilst it may start off with less Ah capacity, it may well have a
greater cold cranking current so more likely to start a car, assuming
it's willing to start easily.

- is
going to be fine after 6 months, like for like?

Yes.

I'd say most Li-Ion jump
start packs ain't got the finest either, by the price.

But I'm not sure they need to, given what sort of CCA even low spec
ones can output.


+1

That's been my experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN8A2nIMUWA
shows that the worst ones are much worse than the best ones.

Unfortunately the best one isnt currently buyable for some
reason and all the sellers want half the retail price to send
it here, the 2000A audew.

On Tue, 11 May 2021 06:52:18 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH more of the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread


--
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nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 21:35:05 +0100, newshound
wrote:

snip

He'd need a reasonably meaty one for the Rover.

You could be right, depending on the gearing / efficiency of the
starter etc.

The 1.4i Astra was always a 'lazy starter' but always seemed to start.
The kitcar (1.3 Mk2 Escort) is normally spins over pretty quickly but
takes a time to fire up (especially if it's been left for a while).
The 2L Sierra was something inbetween and the Rover 218 SD seemed to
fire up before it had even turned over once!

The other thing to check
is that the croc clips are making good contact.

Good point (although I'm sure Dave would have that covered).

I had mine out for the
petrol topper the other day and nothing much happened, then I jiggled
the croc clips and away it went.

Yeah, it really can depend of several things, the general level of
oxide or whatever typically builds up on the terminal clamps, the
shape / sharpness of the 'teeth' on the clips, the strength of the
springs and how / where (on the clamp / terminal bolt or the meat of
the terminal itself if the non-pillar type) or the you have fitted
them.

Cheers, T i m

On 10/05/2021 10:47, T i m wrote:

Whilst it may start off with less Ah capacity, it may well have a
greater cold cranking current so more likely to start a car, assuming it's willing to start easily.

There is a Youtube video showing cranking when these boosters have been
refrigerated down to 0C

With a lithium based booster on the first turn of the key little
happens, the same with the second turn of the key but these two
operations have generated some heat within the battery and subsequently
the engine cranks with relative ease.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2021 10:47, T i m wrote:

Whilst it may start off with less Ah capacity, it may well have a
greater cold cranking current so more likely to start a car, assuming
it's willing to start easily.

There is a Youtube video showing cranking when these boosters have been
refrigerated down to 0C

With a lithium based booster on the first turn of the key little happens,
the same with the second turn of the key but these two operations have
generated some heat within the battery and subsequently the engine cranks
with relative ease.

Yeah, interesting video. Tho I dont expect mine will ever get that cold.

I have ordered the 2000A audew. The worst bad reviews on amazon are
a bit of a worry and so is the official life estimate but it will likely do
what
I want. I dont really need the mega cranking capacity but that might well
be handy if I use it to return someone else's big truck from the dead.

On Tue, 11 May 2021 20:26:58 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
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MID: