Michael Chare wrote:
On 13/04/2021 21:24, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 13/04/2021 12:20, Steve Walker wrote:
I also looked at electric heaters, as my car is normally parked on
the drive at night, but even that would have been difficult, as there
was no space for the heater and pump where the pipes were actually
accessible.

Last time I was in Finland (which is a while ago) all the cars outside
the office were plugged in to stop them freezing up during the day.

An electric engine heater is a standard fitting out there.

Andy

I have seen similar in North America.


We used to have that at work. Every parking spot had
a duplex outlet. It got removed when the lot needed
to be paved at one point.

Surprisingly, not many people used that. I would occasionally
use the block heater on my older cars. But with the
5W30 oil in cars now, it's now marginal in my climate.

In the old days, your aids we

1) Block heater. Knock out a frost plug, fit heater,
Run cord to front grill. Provide nylon tie to hold
cord in place. Applying power 1.5 to 2 hours before
departure, heated the block enough to get the car started.
Provides cabin heat slightly faster after departure.
Use correct metallurgy - some block heaters leak after
two years, and that means the wrong one was fitted.
This heats the cooling water. No pump provided.
Block heaters were dirt cheap, which is why they were
popular.

2) Oil heater. This is the one with a pump for
circulating the oil. Never had one. Not interested.

3) Battery blanket. This preserves cranking amps, by lifting
battery temperature above ambient. I don't know of too
many people, resorting to this. You might use this if your
battery is half-dead.

My current car is the first car that's had no block
heater fitted. The car still starts at -26C. Although
I would probably delay departure until later in the
day, to reduce stress on the engine. (They're a bit
oil-starved at startup at that temperature.)

Paul

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 17:19:28 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


On my Beetle, the heater control was basically a lever which
opened flaps allowing hot air in from the engine area. These
stuck after a period of disuse, always in the open position.

Never got that with mine, a 1300

Well, his did, you abnormal auto-contradicting senile pest!

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

NY wrote:


I've found that in a hard frost when there's really thick ice, de-icer
simply doesn't melt it enough for a scraper to remove it: the scraper
just glides over the top of the ice.

You can use the corner of the scraper, to "score" the ice.

Then work the scraper at 90 degrees to the score line.

But this only works up to a certain thickness of ice.
There is always a thickness of ice which is too much
for any technique.

And the reason this works, is the scraper is plastic.
If your scraper had a metal edge, you can't do that.
Even some standalone plastic scrapers, are too strong and
brittle for their own good.

https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/m...4424p.html#srp

It's amazing, how many scraper products don't work.
The more "fancy" and "big-headed" an ice product is,
the worse it works.

What you'll notice about that scraper, is it is relatively
small. The five raised things are non-functional in the
picture, but they tell you "which side is up". You can
score the ice with the corner of that scraper, to get
a starting point, so the scraper won't keep slipping off.

Even the branding on that thing isn't important. For
years, it had no brand on it. It was just a stick in a
bin full of sticks. But that design has been consistent
for decades. And it's relatively cheap.

I've been given other sticks, but they sit in my basement.

Paul

Chris J Dixon wrote:
soup wrote:

That brings me too a side point how do heated windscreens work?
I fully realise rear windows have wires in them but I have never seen a
windscreen with wires yet I have seen cars specced with heated
windscreens.

Fords have fine wires embedded in the glass. You soon forget they
are there, and would probably find them hard to see from the
outside.

Expect in winter when youre driving toward a low sun. They can be rather
annoying then.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Paul wrote:


If you think that's bad, you should read up on the procedure
to change a battery. The parts have to be "registered" with
one another, for that to work. Simply unplugging the old $4000
item and plugging in a new one, won't work. This avoids
a secondary market consisting of stolen batteries :-)

Registering new components has been a feature of many ICE cars for quite
some time. Its not exclusive to EVs.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Tim+ wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote:
soup wrote:

That brings me too a side point how do heated windscreens work?
I fully realise rear windows have wires in them but I have never seen a
windscreen with wires yet I have seen cars specced with heated
windscreens.

Fords have fine wires embedded in the glass. You soon forget they
are there, and would probably find them hard to see from the
outside.

Expect in winter when youre driving toward a low sun. They can be rather
annoying then.


Except! Fecking speelchuck...

Tim



--
Please don't feed the trolls

"Tim+" wrote in message
...
Chris J Dixon wrote:
soup wrote:

That brings me too a side point how do heated windscreens work?
I fully realise rear windows have wires in them but I have never seen a
windscreen with wires yet I have seen cars specced with heated
windscreens.

Fords have fine wires embedded in the glass. You soon forget they
are there, and would probably find them hard to see from the
outside.

Expect in winter when youre driving toward a low sun. They can be rather
annoying then.

I found I was aware of them at all times. My eyes sometimes tried to focus
on them rather than the outside.

On 14/04/2021 09:02, Paul wrote:
Michael Chare wrote:
On 13/04/2021 21:24, Vir Campestris wrote:

An electric engine heater is a standard fitting out there.

I have seen similar in North America.


We used to have that at work. Every parking spot had
a duplex outlet. It got removed when the lot needed
to be paved at one point.

Surprisingly, not many people used that. I would occasionally
use the block heater on my older cars. But with the
5W30 oil in cars now, it's now marginal in my climate.

In the old days, your aids we

1) Block heater. Knock out a frost plug, fit heater,
Â* Run cord to front grill. Provide nylon tie to hold
Â* cord in place. Applying power 1.5 to 2 hours before
Â* departure, heated the block enough to get the car started.
Â* Provides cabin heat slightly faster after departure.
Â* Use correct metallurgy - some block heaters leak after
Â* two years, and that means the wrong one was fitted.
Â* This heats the cooling water. No pump provided.
Â* Block heaters were dirt cheap, which is why they were
Â* popular.

2) Oil heater. This is the one with a pump for
Â* circulating the oil. Never had one. Not interested.

3) Battery blanket. This preserves cranking amps, by lifting
Â* battery temperature above ambient. I don't know of too
Â* many people, resorting to this. You might use this if your
Â* battery is half-dead.

My current car is the first car that's had no block
heater fitted. The car still starts at -26C. Although
I would probably delay departure until later in the
day, to reduce stress on the engine. (They're a bit
oil-starved at startup at that temperature.)

People used to have special flat paraffin heaters they put under the
engine. Or drain out the coolant and replace it with hot water.

(Anti-freeze wasn't universal in those days; it was only used in the
winter in any case. I suppose they could have drained it the night
before - provided they remembered they had done it!)

--
Max Demian

"Max Demian" wrote in message
o.uk...
My current car is the first car that's had no block
heater fitted. The car still starts at -26C. Although
I would probably delay departure until later in the
day, to reduce stress on the engine. (They're a bit
oil-starved at startup at that temperature.)

People used to have special flat paraffin heaters they put under the
engine. Or drain out the coolant and replace it with hot water.

(Anti-freeze wasn't universal in those days; it was only used in the
winter in any case. I suppose they could have drained it the night
before - provided they remembered they had done it!)

Yes I can vaguely remember the days of changing the coolant before and after
winter. Did early anti-freeze cause problems if it was left in all year
round?

My recent diesel cars have always started very quickly in cold weather,
unlike petrols. OK, the engine is slow to turn over for the first couple of
seconds cos the oil is viscous, and I always leave the ignition on for a few
seconds before starting to give the glow-plugs a chance, even though my
recent ones haven't even had a glow-plug light that needs to go out before
starting. Bit of chugging and white smoke till all the cylinders are firing
if it's very cold, but none of the problems of a petrol engine which fires
OK but then stalls as soon soon as you try to set off.

But I've never had to start it in temperatures as low as -26C. I think -12
was the coldest.

In article ,
NY wrote:
Yes I can vaguely remember the days of changing the coolant before and
after winter. Did early anti-freeze cause problems if it was left in
all year round?

Yes. It caused corrosion, and early blocking of the radiator. When all
aluminium engines became common, they produced a new version that
inhibited corrosion.

It's said to be a reason the production run of what is now the Rover V8
was so short in its original US Buick form. US owners weren't prepared to
pay the extra cost of a corrosion inhibitor.

--
*If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/04/2021 07:52, Paul wrote:

If you think that's bad, you should read up on the procedure
to change a battery. The parts have to be "registered" with
one another, for that to work. Simply unplugging the old $4000
item and plugging in a new one, won't work. This avoids
a secondary market consisting of stolen batteries :-)

I wonder if they stole the idea from Apple? One of Louis Rossmann's
videos complains that you can't even swap batteries between two
identical recent iPhones without getting warning messages that you're
using an unapproved battery.

On 14/04/2021 10:22, Tim+ wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote:
soup wrote:

That brings me too a side point how do heated windscreens work?
I fully realise rear windows have wires in them but I have never seen a
windscreen with wires yet I have seen cars specced with heated
windscreens.

Fords have fine wires embedded in the glass. You soon forget they
are there, and would probably find them hard to see from the
outside.

Expect in winter when youre driving toward a low sun. They can be rather
annoying then.

Also annoying in fog, as the eyes focus on them rather than what's outside.

--
Max Demian

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Paul wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
I have noted that my more energy efficient diesel car takes much longer
to warm up than the previous petrol ones I had.

Yes. Some diesels have much larger alternators and an electric heater to
warm them faster - some Focus diesels had that ... a 1kW electric
heater! Unfortunately, mine didn't, and it would often take 4 or 5 miles
to really get warmed up. My current car is petrol and is much better in
that respect.

Surely a direct diesel burning heater makes more sense? You could set that
going before you get to the car in the morning?


With electric heating (squirrel cage blower, toaster element), you
can have zero thermal mass heating. And you can clear a windshield
in around 60 seconds.

But that's not heating you, which is what a car heater does.

With a combustion heater, you need isolation
between the combustion side and the output side, and the resulting
thermal mass takes time to heat up.

We had vans at work with diesel burning cabin heaters. That got the cab
warm far quicker than the coolant fed heater.

And if you've ever ridden in VWs (bug or camper van), you know
what combustion heating smells like. I rode in a car once, I was
sure we were going to be asphyxiated :-/ There was that much leakage.

Sound like it was faulty. But older air cooled VW got their heat from the
exhaust.

As did the DAF
--
bert

In article , williamwright
writes
On 14/04/2021 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
We had vans at work with diesel burning cabin heaters. That got the cab
warm far quicker than the coolant fed heater.

Big lorries generally have one. It's necessary for sleeping in the cab
or for for the long waits at the docks.

Bill
Got one in my campervan. Brilliant.
--
bert

"bert" wrote in message
...
And if you've ever ridden in VWs (bug or camper van), you know
what combustion heating smells like. I rode in a car once, I was
sure we were going to be asphyxiated :-/ There was that much leakage.

Sound like it was faulty. But older air cooled VW got their heat from the
exhaust.

How common is coolant heating versus exhaust heating in water-cooled cars?
Do all water-cooled cars use the coolant to heat the car heater, or are
there any which use the exhaust as the heat exchanger, as for air-cooled
cars?

On 16/04/2021 16:00, NY wrote:
"bert" wrote in message
...
And if you've ever ridden in VWs (bug or camper van), you know
what combustion heating smells like. I rode in a car once, I was
sure we were going to be asphyxiated :-/ There was that much leakage.

Sound like it was faulty. But older air cooled VW got their heat from
the
exhaust.

How common is coolant heating versus exhaust heating in water-cooled
cars? Do all water-cooled cars use the coolant to heat the car heater,
or are there any which use the exhaust as the heat exchanger, as for
air-cooled cars?

None that I know of. When engine coolant can provide plenty of heat, is
already available (usually) close to where needed and requires no more
than a couple of tap-off points to connect to the heater, why would they
use anything else.