On 12/04/2021 21:07, ARW wrote:
On 12/04/2021 14:57, fred wrote:
On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 2:50:40 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
R D S wrote:
I had a new job on top of my to-do list yesterday morning.

Ice and frozen snow on the screen, snapped my scraper jabbing away at
it, so I poured some tepid water on it and hit the wipers upon which
the
blades promptly tore from the arms.
Rule one. Always check the blades ain't stuck to the screen before
switching on. You can check this by lifting them off the screen against
the springs while scraping etc the ice off.

--
*My wife and I had words. But I didn't get to use mine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I just run the engine with the heater,Â* screen and rear window
demisters turned on and the heated seats. An advantage of living in
the sticks.

And rev it's knackers off to heat it faster?



Only if it's a diesel and at 4AM

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
R D S wrote:
On 12/04/2021 18:55, Michael Chare wrote:
I have noted that my more energy efficient diesel car takes much longer
to warm up than the previous petrol ones I had.

Don't they?

When I set off driving with the heating set to auto it's about a mile
before there is enough warmth for the car to bother with the blowers.

I've often wondered about that. Surely the answer would be a much smaller
cooling system? Less volume would heat up quicker? But capacities seem
similar to petrol cars. Or could be a diesel efficiency gets much poorer
at full throttle?

It's not one jolly large cooling system. It's separated loops
and a wax plug. Accessory heat is not available immediately,
because the car design gives priority to warming up the oil.
Once the engine is sufficiently warm, the accessory loop opens
and heat is available in the cabin. The wax plug measures the
temperature and the wax melts when the coolant is warm enough.

And various posh cars, have other subsystems tied into the
main cooling loop. Maybe the oil in the transmission is
being heated or regulated by using the cooling system.

Some cars even have electrically heated catalytic converters,
which is a feature used to achieve very low lifecycle emissions
at the exhaust. Most regular cars just wait for the engine
to warm up, and the emissions gradually come down as a result.
But some cars waste energy heating the cat for the first minute
or two, to drive down the emissions right after start.

If you notice that heat is not available in the cabin for
longer than used to be normal, it's possible you need a
"rad flush" or "cooling flush". After I had a cooling leak,
and they had to do a flush anyway, it seemed to make quite a
difference to heating time. I got heat in about half the time.
But the effect of a flush doesn't last forever. The car may
become a laggard again after three years or so. You would not
expect a flush to be scrubbing things clean.

And another topic on frosty mornings, is frost buildup inside
the car. I've run into several people in grocery store
parking lots, who were clueless. The inside of the car is coated
in frost. And you can see them using a credit card to scrape
a hole in the frost to see out the window. When that happens,
the flappers in the back of the car, that allow one-way removal
of cabin air, are blocked. And need to be checked that they're free.
If the cabin air movement is working as designed, the vent fan in
the front of the vehicle, pressurizes the cabin enough that the
flappers (gravity operated) open in the back and allow the air
to escape. With good venting through the car, moisture doesn't
accumulate nearly as badly. I had to take the trim off in the
trunk once, to check the state of those. They seem to use the
one-way valve concept for the airflow, so exhaust gas can't get
into the cabin from the back. As otherwise, it would make more
sense for the back of the cabin to just have a couple "holes" for
the job.

Paul

On 13/04/2021 01:13, JNugent wrote:
On 12/04/2021 08:59 pm, newshound wrote:


Presumably electric Fords will have their brilliant (but patented)
heated screens?

...powered by...?

More efficient use of electricity than hot air. If you don't have enough
power to defrost the screen, you are not going anywhere anyway.

soup wrote:


I would NEVER NEVER never pour even tepid water onto a screen, I know it
is strong enough to cope with 200+ mile an hour winds, but thermal shock
can do some 'interesting' things.

Well, I can only speak from decade of personal experience using hot water
from my tap. Never ever had a problem in 45 years of driving.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
I have noted that my more energy efficient diesel car takes much longer
to warm up than the previous petrol ones I had.

Yes. Some diesels have much larger alternators and an electric heater to
warm them faster - some Focus diesels had that ... a 1kW electric
heater! Unfortunately, mine didn't, and it would often take 4 or 5 miles
to really get warmed up. My current car is petrol and is much better in
that respect.

Surely a direct diesel burning heater makes more sense? You could set that
going before you get to the car in the morning?


With electric heating (squirrel cage blower, toaster element), you
can have zero thermal mass heating. And you can clear a windshield
in around 60 seconds. With a combustion heater, you need isolation
between the combustion side and the output side, and the resulting
thermal mass takes time to heat up.

And if you've ever ridden in VWs (bug or camper van), you know
what combustion heating smells like. I rode in a car once, I was
sure we were going to be asphyxiated :-/ There was that much leakage.

Paul

Tim+ wrote:
R D S wrote:
On 12/04/2021 16:49, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 12/04/2021 12:54, R D S wrote:
I had a new job on top of my to-do list yesterday morning.

Ice and frozen snow on the screen, snapped my scraper jabbing away at
it, so I poured some tepid water on it and hit the wipers upon which
the blades promptly tore from the arms.

Nightmare.
haaaaaaaaaaaa lucky the screen didn't crack...tee hee
Tepid Jim, not cracked a screen in thirty plus years.


Ive poured really hot water over iced up screens for many years with no
problems.

Tim


As long as a windshield is bedded in sealant and is not
touching any rusty metal framework underneath the windshield,
it won't crack. That sealant is amazing stuff, as it handles
all the thermal coefficient of expansion and smooths out the
stresses.

If a windshield glass rests on a "rusty lump", you can have
a windshield failure with only lukewarm water. I've seen that
happen with my own eyes. Once you grind down the window frame
with an angle grinder, and put fresh paint on, then the
sealant bedding, that windshield will be as good as new.

Most "chain store" windshield repair stops, they will not
even tell the customer there is rust present, and unless
the rust is repaired, the windshield will only crack again.
And being slimy *******s, the windshield places know
*exactly* what they're doing. Rust is a money-maker for them.
It's only when the rust forms a "bump" under the windshield
and touches the glass, that you're in for trouble. If you
look carefully, you can even see the deformation and stress
in the glass.

How did I study this topic ? Why, *five* failed windshields.
This is one topic I didn't learn by Googling. This one
cost me money.

Paul

On 13/04/2021 12:45, Paul wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â* R D S wrote:
On 12/04/2021 18:55, Michael Chare wrote:
I have noted that my more energy efficient diesel car takes much
longer to warm up than the previous petrol ones I had.

Don't they?

When I set off driving with the heating set to auto it's about a mile
before there is enough warmth for the car to bother with the blowers.

I've often wondered about that. Surely the answer would be a much smaller
cooling system? Less volume would heat up quicker? But capacities seem
similar to petrol cars. Or could be a diesel efficiency gets much poorer
at full throttle?

It's not one jolly large cooling system. It's separated loops
and a wax plug. Accessory heat is not available immediately,
because the car design gives priority to warming up the oil.
Once the engine is sufficiently warm, the accessory loop opens
and heat is available in the cabin. The wax plug measures the
temperature and the wax melts when the coolant is warm enough.

And various posh cars, have other subsystems tied into the
main cooling loop. Maybe the oil in the transmission is
being heated or regulated by using the cooling system.

Some cars even have electrically heated catalytic converters,
which is a feature used to achieve very low lifecycle emissions
at the exhaust. Most regular cars just wait for the engine
to warm up, and the emissions gradually come down as a result.
But some cars waste energy heating the cat for the first minute
or two, to drive down the emissions right after start.

There was a design some years ago (never used in a production vehicle
AFAIK) that ran the engine very rich on start-up and had an additional
spark-plug at the catalytic converter to provide almost immediate
heating of the catalyst).

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
I have noted that my more energy efficient diesel car takes much longer
to warm up than the previous petrol ones I had.

Yes. Some diesels have much larger alternators and an electric heater to
warm them faster - some Focus diesels had that ... a 1kW electric
heater! Unfortunately, mine didn't, and it would often take 4 or 5 miles
to really get warmed up. My current car is petrol and is much better in
that respect.

Surely a direct diesel burning heater makes more sense?

Nope, you would have to have expensive emission control on
that to satisfy the regulations. Its there already with the engine.

You could set that going before you get to the car in the morning?

Yes, but you can with the engine too.

"Paul" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
I have noted that my more energy efficient diesel car takes much longer
to warm up than the previous petrol ones I had.

Yes. Some diesels have much larger alternators and an electric heater to
warm them faster - some Focus diesels had that ... a 1kW electric
heater! Unfortunately, mine didn't, and it would often take 4 or 5 miles
to really get warmed up. My current car is petrol and is much better in
that respect.

Surely a direct diesel burning heater makes more sense? You could set
that
going before you get to the car in the morning?


With electric heating (squirrel cage blower, toaster element), you
can have zero thermal mass heating. And you can clear a windshield
in around 60 seconds. With a combustion heater, you need isolation
between the combustion side and the output side, and the resulting
thermal mass takes time to heat up.

And if you've ever ridden in VWs (bug or camper van), you know
what combustion heating smells like. I rode in a car once, I was
sure we were going to be asphyxiated :-/ There was that much leakage.

Never had that with my bug. That one you rode in must have been faulty.

On 13/04/2021 16:22, Rod Speed wrote:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
* Steve Walker wrote:
I have noted that my more energy efficient diesel car takes much
longer
to warm up than the previous petrol ones I had.

Yes. Some diesels have much larger alternators and an electric heater to
warm them faster - some Focus diesels had that ... a 1kW electric
heater! Unfortunately, mine didn't, and it would often take 4 or 5 miles
to really get warmed up. My current car is petrol and is much better in
that respect.

Surely a direct diesel burning heater makes more sense?

Nope, you would have to have expensive emission control on
that to satisfy the regulations. Its there already with the engine.

You could set that going before you get to the car in the morning?

Yes, but you can with the engine too.

That doesn't seem to stop diesel heaters being fitted for immediate
warmth, and to defrost the windscreen.

Perhaps the Australian emission requirements are different.

You do know this is uk.d-i-y?

On 13/04/2021 07:18 am, Tim+ wrote:
JNugent wrote:
On 12/04/2021 08:59 pm, Tim+ wrote:
JNugent wrote:
On 12/04/2021 02:05 pm, AnthonyL wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 12:54:45 +0100, R D S wrote:

I had a new job on top of my to-do list yesterday morning.

Ice and frozen snow on the screen, snapped my scraper jabbing away at
it, so I poured some tepid water on it and hit the wipers upon which the
blades promptly tore from the arms.


My wife puts some very warm water in a sealable plastic bag which she
then wipes over the glass.

My car has a windscreen heater and the blower doesn't take long to get
warm so I just listen to the radio for a few minutes whilst the car
readies itself and maybe scrape the mirrors, side windows and rear
glass clear. I never touch the blades, they stick and tear if not
careful, and if careless the blades promptly tear from the arms.

Imagine what waiting for the heaters to defrost the screen will be like
when you can only have an electric car.

Yeah, its great. I can lie in my bed and defrost my car from there.

It might be OK at home, where you might be able to bring some warm water
or maybe a hairdryer to the car. But what if you're frozen-up miles from
home and have to rely on what's in the battery to get you there.

Well youd be a fool to do it if your battery was really low but that would
be a rare event for me away from home.

With electric cars, it cannot possibly be a rare event for the battery
charge to be low while away from home.


How often has your screen frozen up during the day?

I have very frequently stayed away from home overnight. Haven't you?

Besides, I said €œtoo low€�.

Fine.



Tim

On 13/04/2021 12:45 pm, Paul wrote:

[ ]

And another topic on frosty mornings, is frost buildup inside
the car. I've run into several people in grocery store
parking lots, who were clueless. The inside of the car is coated
in frost. And you can see them using a credit card to scrape
a hole in the frost to see out the window.

You've run into them, or they've run into you?

On 13/04/2021 07:18, Tim+ wrote:



How often has your screen frozen up during the day?

Quite often when I was working. The van would be parked outdoors in
sub-zero temperatures for a couple of hours. Sometimes it rained or
snowed. It used to be a regular problem, especially when I was covering
Penistone and such places.

Bill

On 13/04/2021 12:22, Andrew wrote:
On 12/04/2021 21:07, ARW wrote:
On 12/04/2021 14:57, fred wrote:
On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 2:50:40 PM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article ,
R D S wrote:
I had a new job on top of my to-do list yesterday morning.

Ice and frozen snow on the screen, snapped my scraper jabbing away at
it, so I poured some tepid water on it and hit the wipers upon
which the
blades promptly tore from the arms.
Rule one. Always check the blades ain't stuck to the screen before
switching on. You can check this by lifting them off the screen against
the springs while scraping etc the ice off.

--
*My wife and I had words. But I didn't get to use mine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I just run the engine with the heater,Â* screen and rear window
demisters turned on and the heated seats. An advantage of living in
the sticks.

And rev it's knackers off to heat it faster?



Only if it's a diesel and at 4AM

The van does not allow you to rev it's knackers off. I tried this morning.

--
Adam

In article ,
williamwright wrote:
On 13/04/2021 07:18, Tim+ wrote:



How often has your screen frozen up during the day?

Quite often when I was working. The van would be parked outdoors in
sub-zero temperatures for a couple of hours. Sometimes it rained or
snowed. It used to be a regular problem, especially when I was covering
Penistone and such places.

Bill

I can still remember going to my car parked at TV Centre to find it under a
few inches of snow. This was at about 2am, I'd been supervising some work
which could only be done after closedown.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

JNugent wrote:
On 13/04/2021 07:18 am, Tim+ wrote:
JNugent wrote:
On 12/04/2021 08:59 pm, Tim+ wrote:
JNugent wrote:
On 12/04/2021 02:05 pm, AnthonyL wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 12:54:45 +0100, R D S wrote:

I had a new job on top of my to-do list yesterday morning.

Ice and frozen snow on the screen, snapped my scraper jabbing away at
it, so I poured some tepid water on it and hit the wipers upon which the
blades promptly tore from the arms.


My wife puts some very warm water in a sealable plastic bag which she
then wipes over the glass.

My car has a windscreen heater and the blower doesn't take long to get
warm so I just listen to the radio for a few minutes whilst the car
readies itself and maybe scrape the mirrors, side windows and rear
glass clear. I never touch the blades, they stick and tear if not
careful, and if careless the blades promptly tear from the arms.

Imagine what waiting for the heaters to defrost the screen will be like
when you can only have an electric car.

Yeah, its great. I can lie in my bed and defrost my car from there.

It might be OK at home, where you might be able to bring some warm water
or maybe a hairdryer to the car. But what if you're frozen-up miles from
home and have to rely on what's in the battery to get you there.

Well youd be a fool to do it if your battery was really low but that would
be a rare event for me away from home.

With electric cars, it cannot possibly be a rare event for the battery
charge to be low while away from home.


How often has your screen frozen up during the day?

I have very frequently stayed away from home overnight. Haven't you?

In the last year, never! ;-)

Of course I may do at some point in the future but with a bit of planning
its hardly an insuperable problem. Last time I did it I just plugged my
car into a 13 amp socket.

Im not pretending than an EV is a transport solution suitable for everyone
yet, but it very definitely is a viable solution for many people. As the
battery charging times improve and the charging infrastructure improves
that number will increase.

It may never be viable for some folk though.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 01:43:52 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Never had that with my bug. That one you rode in must have been faulty.

Nope, it's really your senile head that's faulty, to say the least!

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:54:19 +0100, Fredxx, the notorious, troll-feeding,
senile smartass, blathered again:


You do know this is uk.d-i-y?

You do know that he is a filthy senile old troll?

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 86-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 13/04/2021 12:20, Andy Burns wrote:
soup wrote:

I would NEVER NEVER never pour even tepid water onto a screen

Like others, I've only used water for defrosting for at least 30 years,
no issues with cracking.

"I".

You may well have 'got away with it' for 30 years but I wouldn't do it.

On 13/04/2021 13:23, Tim+ wrote:
soup wrote:


I would NEVER NEVER never pour even tepid water onto a screen, I know it
is strong enough to cope with 200+ mile an hour winds, but thermal shock
can do some 'interesting' things.

Well, I can only speak from decade of personal experience using hot water
from my tap. Never ever had a problem in 45 years of driving.

Tim

"I".

You may well have 'got away with it' for a decade, but I wouldn't do it.

On 13/04/2021 12:20, Steve Walker wrote:
I also looked at electric heaters, as my car is normally parked on the
drive at night, but even that would have been difficult, as there was no
space for the heater and pump where the pipes were actually accessible.

Last time I was in Finland (which is a while ago) all the cars outside
the office were plugged in to stop them freezing up during the day.

An electric engine heater is a standard fitting out there.

Andy

soup wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

soup wrote:

I would NEVER NEVER never pour even tepid water onto a screen

Like others, I've only used water for defrosting for at least 30
years, no issues with cracking.

"I".

You may well have 'got away with it' for 30 years but I wouldn't do it.

OK, just FTAOD, I promise not to come round and pour tepid water on YOUR
car :-)

soup wrote:
On 13/04/2021 13:23, Tim+ wrote:
soup wrote:


I would NEVER NEVER never pour even tepid water onto a screen, I know it
is strong enough to cope with 200+ mile an hour winds, but thermal shock
can do some 'interesting' things.

Well, I can only speak from decade of personal experience using hot water
from my tap. Never ever had a problem in 45 years of driving.

Tim

"I".

You may well have 'got away with it' for a decade, but I wouldn't do it.


Fine. Just pointing out that youre probably being way over cautious.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

soup wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

soup wrote:

I would NEVER NEVER never pour even tepid water onto a screen

Like others, I've only used water for defrosting for at least 30 years,
no issues with cracking.

"I".

You may well have 'got away with it' for 30 years but I wouldn't do it.

So would you rely on de-icer, a scraper and the car heater left on for ages?
My diesel car would probably *never* get hot enough to give out warm air for
demisting/de-icing if left idling: I have to be driving (eg engine at 1500
rpm or more) for about 5 mins before the temperature needle starts to move
and the air feels vaguely warm. I did try once leaving it idling for about
15 mins - with the doors locked using the second key to prevent the car
being stolen!

Of course my car may have a faulty thermostat which always sends water
through the radiator even when the water is stone cold... But I don't
remember the heater warming up till I'd been driving a while even when the
car was new. It gets very hot (if I turn the dial up to max) once the car is
moving, so it's not just a crap heater. Whereas my petrol-engined cars got
hot very quickly even while idling. I put it down to diesels being more
efficient that petrols.


I've found that in a hard frost when there's really thick ice, de-icer
simply doesn't melt it enough for a scraper to remove it: the scraper just
glides over the top of the ice.

Is tepid water more or less of a thermal shock to glass than hot air from
the heater?

NY wrote:
soup wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

soup wrote:

I would NEVER NEVER never pour even tepid water onto a screen

Like others, I've only used water for defrosting for at least 30 years,
no issues with cracking.

"I".

You may well have 'got away with it' for 30 years but I wouldn't do it.

So would you rely on de-icer, a scraper and the car heater left on for ages?
My diesel car would probably *never* get hot enough to give out warm air for
demisting/de-icing if left idling: I have to be driving (eg engine at 1500
rpm or more) for about 5 mins before the temperature needle starts to move
and the air feels vaguely warm. I did try once leaving it idling for about
15 mins - with the doors locked using the second key to prevent the car
being stolen!

Of course my car may have a faulty thermostat which always sends water
through the radiator even when the water is stone cold... But I don't
remember the heater warming up till I'd been driving a while even when the
car was new. It gets very hot (if I turn the dial up to max) once the car is
moving, so it's not just a crap heater. Whereas my petrol-engined cars got
hot very quickly even while idling. I put it down to diesels being more
efficient that petrols.


I've found that in a hard frost when there's really thick ice, de-icer
simply doesn't melt it enough for a scraper to remove it: the scraper just
glides over the top of the ice.

Is tepid water more or less of a thermal shock to glass than hot air from
the heater?


Hot water is much better. It warms the glass to the point where mist on the
inside evaporates more quickly.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

"NY" wrote in message
...
Is tepid water more or less of a thermal shock to glass than hot air from
the heater?

And come to think about it, what about the thermal shock from an electric
rear-window heater, or the wires-buried-in-the-front-window heater on some
cars eg Fords?


Boiling water, no way. Tepid or hand-hot water - I'd have thought that was
less damaging on an icy windscreen than an electrically heated window. I'd
go for quantity rather than temperature.


Of course the ideal solution is to keep the car in the garage, but not all
of us have a garage - or if we have a garage, it's being used as overflow
loft space or it's too narrow to take even a small car ;-) The only time I
got my car into the garage at my old house was to keep it secure after the
windscreen had shattered due to a botched chip repair by Autoglass - and I
had to climb out of the car through the boot!

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:12:06 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 12/04/2021 02:05 pm, AnthonyL wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 12:54:45 +0100, R D S wrote:

I had a new job on top of my to-do list yesterday morning.

Ice and frozen snow on the screen, snapped my scraper jabbing away at
it, so I poured some tepid water on it and hit the wipers upon which the
blades promptly tore from the arms.


My wife puts some very warm water in a sealable plastic bag which she
then wipes over the glass.

My car has a windscreen heater and the blower doesn't take long to get
warm so I just listen to the radio for a few minutes whilst the car
readies itself and maybe scrape the mirrors, side windows and rear
glass clear. I never touch the blades, they stick and tear if not
careful, and if careless the blades promptly tear from the arms.

Imagine what waiting for the heaters to defrost the screen will be like
when you can only have an electric car.

It might be OK at home, where you might be able to bring some warm water
or maybe a hairdryer to the car. But what if you're frozen-up miles from
home and have to rely on what's in the battery to get you there.

Lot's of fun in winter traffic jams on impossible to get off motorways
as we seem to get once or twice a year.

Maybe all electric cars will end up with a small portable petrol
driven generator, one of those little Honda jobs. "To be used only in
emergency".




--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 11:00:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
I have noted that my more energy efficient diesel car takes much longer
to warm up than the previous petrol ones I had.

Yes. Some diesels have much larger alternators and an electric heater to
warm them faster - some Focus diesels had that ... a 1kW electric
heater! Unfortunately, mine didn't, and it would often take 4 or 5 miles
to really get warmed up. My current car is petrol and is much better in
that respect.

Surely a direct diesel burning heater makes more sense? You could set that
going before you get to the car in the morning?



Whatever happened to those little paraffin heaters you lit under your
car overnight so it was easier to get started with the starting
handle?


--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

In article ,
Paul wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Steve Walker wrote:
I have noted that my more energy efficient diesel car takes much longer
to warm up than the previous petrol ones I had.

Yes. Some diesels have much larger alternators and an electric heater to
warm them faster - some Focus diesels had that ... a 1kW electric
heater! Unfortunately, mine didn't, and it would often take 4 or 5 miles
to really get warmed up. My current car is petrol and is much better in
that respect.

Surely a direct diesel burning heater makes more sense? You could set that
going before you get to the car in the morning?


With electric heating (squirrel cage blower, toaster element), you
can have zero thermal mass heating. And you can clear a windshield
in around 60 seconds.

But that's not heating you, which is what a car heater does.

With a combustion heater, you need isolation
between the combustion side and the output side, and the resulting
thermal mass takes time to heat up.

We had vans at work with diesel burning cabin heaters. That got the cab
warm far quicker than the coolant fed heater.

And if you've ever ridden in VWs (bug or camper van), you know
what combustion heating smells like. I rode in a car once, I was
sure we were going to be asphyxiated :-/ There was that much leakage.

Sound like it was faulty. But older air cooled VW got their heat from the
exhaust.

--
*DOES THE LITTLE MERMAID WEAR AN ALGEBRA?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/04/2021 21:24, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 13/04/2021 12:20, Steve Walker wrote:
I also looked at electric heaters, as my car is normally parked on the
drive at night, but even that would have been difficult, as there was
no space for the heater and pump where the pipes were actually
accessible.

Last time I was in Finland (which is a while ago) all the cars outside
the office were plugged in to stop them freezing up during the day.

An electric engine heater is a standard fitting out there.

Andy

I have seen similar in North America.

--
Michael Chare

On 13/04/2021 18:01, charles wrote:
I can still remember going to my car parked at TV Centre to find it under a
few inches of snow. This was at about 2am, I'd been supervising some work
which could only be done after closedown.

Forty-something years ago I was caught in a snow storm on Skye, in
August! It was memorable because the previous day we'd found a body and
the cops suspected us of murder (very long story).

Bill

On 13/04/2021 22:40, AnthonyL wrote:
Maybe all electric cars will end up with a small portable petrol
driven generator, one of those little Honda jobs. "To be used only in
emergency".

If the time ever comes when I have to drive an electric car the least
thing I'll do is carry a 2kW genny and a few cans of fuel in the boot.
The other way will be to have a 10kW genny on a trailer.

Bill

On 14/04/2021 00:34, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
We had vans at work with diesel burning cabin heaters. That got the cab
warm far quicker than the coolant fed heater.

Big lorries generally have one. It's necessary for sleeping in the cab
or for for the long waits at the docks.

Bill

On 12/04/2021 12:54, R D S wrote:
I had a new job on top of my to-do list yesterday morning.

Ice and frozen snow on the screen, snapped my scraper jabbing away at
it, so I poured some tepid water on it and hit the wipers upon which the
blades promptly tore from the arms.

Nightmare.

If I have to go out in the morning I park the vehicle where the dawn sun
will shine on the windscreen, and I put an electric fire inside. First
thing in the morning I hit the switch in the house that turns the
outdoor sockets on. It doesn't take very long for a 1kW blower fire to
clear everything.

Bill

On 13/04/2021 21:58, NY wrote:
soup wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

soup wrote:

I would NEVER NEVER never pour even tepid water onto a screen

Like others, I've only used water for defrosting for at least 30
years, no issues with cracking.

"I".

You may well have 'got away with it' for 30 years but I wouldn't do it.

So would you rely on de-icer, a scraper and the car heater left on for
ages?

Erm no.

As I 'said' before ,
I remove loose/surface snow with a scraper .

Spray with Iso-propyl.(have gallons of it to clean my (bicycle)
brakes(Hydraulic disc).

If needed, I give a quick 'bloop' to the windscreen wipers whilst
activating the screen wash.

The rear screen is heated I can usually see out the back anyway but
the heater ensures I have a clear view by the time I am out of the cul-
de-sac's car park.



That brings me too a side point how do heated windscreens work?
I fully realise rear windows have wires in them but I have never seen a
windscreen with wires yet I have seen cars specced with heated
windscreens.

AnthonyL wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 18:12:06 +0100, JNugent
wrote:

On 12/04/2021 02:05 pm, AnthonyL wrote:

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 12:54:45 +0100, R D S wrote:

I had a new job on top of my to-do list yesterday morning.

Ice and frozen snow on the screen, snapped my scraper jabbing away at
it, so I poured some tepid water on it and hit the wipers upon which the
blades promptly tore from the arms.

My wife puts some very warm water in a sealable plastic bag which she
then wipes over the glass.

My car has a windscreen heater and the blower doesn't take long to get
warm so I just listen to the radio for a few minutes whilst the car
readies itself and maybe scrape the mirrors, side windows and rear
glass clear. I never touch the blades, they stick and tear if not
careful, and if careless the blades promptly tear from the arms.
Imagine what waiting for the heaters to defrost the screen will be like
when you can only have an electric car.

It might be OK at home, where you might be able to bring some warm water
or maybe a hairdryer to the car. But what if you're frozen-up miles from
home and have to rely on what's in the battery to get you there.

Lot's of fun in winter traffic jams on impossible to get off motorways
as we seem to get once or twice a year.

Maybe all electric cars will end up with a small portable petrol
driven generator, one of those little Honda jobs. "To be used only in
emergency".

"Not all portable generators will work for charging a Tesla. There
are a few important things to consider.

The generator absolutely must have a clean sine wave output. This
means that your generator needs to be an inverter.

The Tesla charging system can tell when the output isn’t a clean,
pure sine wave and it won’t let you charge.

This is important because a surge could cause damage.

Tesla built in a helpful safety feature by not allowing a charge
unless the power is stable."

They made it harder than it needs to be :-)

One other web page noted the same thing - they tried
the portable generator, the BEV stopped accepting charge.
They went the extra mile, to making the car smart enough
to recognize ghetto powering.

If you think that's bad, you should read up on the procedure
to change a battery. The parts have to be "registered" with
one another, for that to work. Simply unplugging the old $4000
item and plugging in a new one, won't work. This avoids
a secondary market consisting of stolen batteries :-)

It has a good bit of anti-DIY in it.

It's enough to make you build your own car.

Paul

Paul wrote:

And if you've ever ridden in VWs (bug or camper van), you know
what combustion heating smells like. I rode in a car once, I was
sure we were going to be asphyxiated :-/ There was that much leakage.

On my Beetle, the heater control was basically a lever which
opened flaps allowing hot air in from the engine area. These
stuck after a period of disuse, always in the open position.

The air could get really hot. I recall one motorway run where my
passenger's shoes distorted in the heat.

Freeing the mechanism was a crawling-under job.

Never any detectable exhaust smell though.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

soup wrote:

That brings me too a side point how do heated windscreens work?
I fully realise rear windows have wires in them but I have never seen a
windscreen with wires yet I have seen cars specced with heated
windscreens.

Fords have fine wires embedded in the glass. You soon forget they
are there, and would probably find them hard to see from the
outside.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
@ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

Chris J Dixon wrote
Paul wrote

And if you've ever ridden in VWs (bug or camper van), you know
what combustion heating smells like. I rode in a car once, I was sure
we were going to be asphyxiated :-/ There was that much leakage.

On my Beetle, the heater control was basically a lever which
opened flaps allowing hot air in from the engine area. These
stuck after a period of disuse, always in the open position.

Never got that with mine, a 1300

The air could get really hot. I recall one motorway run
where my passenger's shoes distorted in the heat.

Yeah, very effective heater.

Freeing the mechanism was a crawling-under job.

Never any detectable exhaust smell though.

Yeah, never saw that, his must have had a crack in the heat exchanger etc.

soup wrote:

how do heated windscreens work?
I fully realise rear windows have wires in them but I have never seen a
windscreen with wires yet I have seen cars specced with heated
windscreens.

From cars I've been in with heated windscreens, they appear to have
some form of barely visible diamond pattern embedded (presumably between
the laminations?) not sure if this would annoy me as a driver?