On 02/04/2021 15:38, Robin wrote:
On 02/04/2021 13:23, Fredxx wrote:
On 02/04/2021 08:15, Robin wrote:
On 02/04/2021 01:05, Fredxx wrote:

snip


Does the need for a EICR cover lodgers, who are normally there under
a licence rather than a tenancy?

snip


No. Excluded by para 2 of Schedule 1.Â* Or see the official guidance
from HMG at

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector


The guidance includes their best effort to wriggle round the way they
went ahead with a regulation that mandates "the electrical safety
standards" of the 18th edition despite admitting that they never
intended to require landlords to replace every plastic CU etc.

Interesting, so if you have 4 or more lodgers then it's a HMO, below
that and you don't need an EICR.

Dunno.Â* AFAICS:

a.Â*Â*Â* these regs simply exclude lodgers as defined in Schedule 1

b.Â*Â*Â* it doesn't matter in these regs if it's an HMO or not

c.Â*Â*Â* these regs also abolished the separate requirement for EICRs for
HMOs;

BUT

d.Â*Â*Â* resident landlords with 2 lodgers may have an HMO and be required
to certificate their safety and be subject to separate licensing
conditions.

I could well be wrong as it seems a daft result.Â* But then these regs
were widely seen as a mess. (As also was the guidance which the
Government issued and withdrew twice).

It's perhaps not a coincidence that everything do with electrical
installations has been a rushed mess ever since the introduction of Part P.

On 02/04/2021 15:41, Robin wrote:
If soon 02/04/2021 14:59, Fredxx wrote:
On 02/04/2021 08:15, Robin wrote:
snip

The guidance includes their best effort to wriggle round the way they
went ahead with a regulation that mandates "the electrical safety
standards" of the 18th edition despite admitting that they never
intended to require landlords to replace every plastic CU etc.

That link says, "Ensure national standards for electrical safety are
met. These are set out in the 18th edition of the €˜Wiring
Regulations, which are published as British Standard 7671."

Now, to my knowledge these may be standards but the standard allows
for deviations that can be justified. In other words it is reasonable
to argue the rules within BS 7671 are more a guide to good practice
rather than a set of prescribed rules.



I'd be interested to read how the following example can be construed as
"more a guide to good practice rather than a set of prescribed rules".

421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and
similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall

(i) have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or

(ii) be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of
non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.

I don't have the 17th or 18th edition at hand, but there are comments on
the design of a system that precede those paragraphs which can include
deviations.

On Fri, 02 Apr 2021 13:23:32 +0100, Fredxx wrote:

It is strange how social housing are exempt, all all the tenancies that
might well require a periodic inspection, that would be one.

I do work for a large Housing Assn.
Yes, it is true, we do not have to do any periodic electrical
inspections, or even provide a smoke detector in the properties.
But we do. On change of Tenancy, a full inspection is carried out.

The onus on the HA is to provide a suitable means of keeping the houses
in a safe condition. With 10 houses, periodic maintenance would be
sufficient. With 19000, it gets far more complicated, so Inspections are
carried out, and smoke detectors are fitted to the latest Private
Landlord Regs. - detector up and downstairs,in the living room, kitchen,
and a CO in anywhere with a gas burning appliance.
Periodic Electrical Inspections are not carried out on a 5 yearly basis,
it is left to the Tenant to ask for it to be done, or, when we visit to
repair something, we note that it needs Inspecting. There are very few of
the properties that do not meet 17th Ed.(original) Regs. There are still
a lot of plastic CU's around, these are marked as a C3 on an inspection.
No need to change it if it still works well.
As far as smoke detectors are concerned, I've seen the stats that show
that social housing has a very low rate of fires damaging the properties,
private rented accomodation has a far higher figure.