Hi All,

Went to fit a new light fitting earlier and despite it being made of metal, there is nowhere to connect the earth wire to. The wiring connector only had 2 connectors and no earth tab anywhere on the fitting. Also even the instructions only mentions live and neutral - no mention of earth.

Is this normal/ correct? It is a Habitat light so one would think it is compliant with UK regs?

thanks

Lee.

On Sunday, 28 March 2021 at 13:30:35 UTC+1, wrote:
Hi All,

Went to fit a new light fitting earlier and despite it being made of metal, there is nowhere to connect the earth wire to. The wiring connector only had 2 connectors and no earth tab anywhere on the fitting. Also even the instructions only mentions live and neutral - no mention of earth.

Is this normal/ correct? It is a Habitat light so one would think it is compliant with UK regs?

thanks

Lee.

Many of the most recent metal light fittings we have bought fixed to the ceiling joist with a c- shaped metal strap that takes fixing screws through the fitting. In most cases the earthing has been on that strap, if not present it is easy enough to crimp an eye on the earth lead and either pop-rivet or attach with a self-tapping screw.

Richard

On 28/03/2021 13:30, wrote:
Hi All,

Went to fit a new light fitting earlier and despite it being made of metal, there is nowhere to connect the earth wire to. The wiring connector only had 2 connectors and no earth tab anywhere on the fitting. Also even the instructions only mentions live and neutral - no mention of earth.

Is this normal/ correct? It is a Habitat light so one would think it is compliant with UK regs?



is there a Class I or Class II symbol anywhere?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 28/03/2021 13:30, wrote:
Hi All,

Went to fit a new light fitting earlier and despite it being made of metal, there is nowhere to connect the earth wire to. The wiring connector only had 2 connectors and no earth tab anywhere on the fitting. Also even the instructions only mentions live and neutral - no mention of earth.

Is this normal/ correct? It is a Habitat light so one would think it is compliant with UK regs?

I'd go the mile to earth it, but on Habitat's defence, perhaps there
should be a double insulated logo somewhere on a sticker that also
mentions the max wattage of the bulb?

--
Adrian C

wrote:
Hi All,

Went to fit a new light fitting earlier and despite it being made of
metal, there is nowhere to connect the earth wire to. The wiring
connector only had 2 connectors and no earth tab anywhere on the fitting.
Also even the instructions only mentions live and neutral - no mention of
earth.

Is this normal/ correct? It is a Habitat light so one would think it is
compliant with UK regs?

Does it have a double insulated symbol or say it's Class II?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWHQRcO071E
explains the classes.

Theo

Adrian Caspersz wrote:
I'd go the mile to earth it, but on Habitat's defence, perhaps there
should be a double insulated logo somewhere on a sticker that also
mentions the max wattage of the bulb?

As John Ward's video points out, adding an earth to something that's Class
II (double insulated) can make things worse if there's a risk of it
providing a route to earth from some other live source (eg another faulty
appliance).

This rather depends on where it's going to be mounted. If it's a ceiling
light on a 3m high ceiling it's rather less likely to be touched compared
with a wall lamp. In the former case the earth is only protecting from
something breaching the double insulation, something which is fairly
unlikely in any case.

Theo

On Sunday, 28 March 2021 at 14:03:38 UTC+1, Theo wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
I'd go the mile to earth it, but on Habitat's defence, perhaps there
should be a double insulated logo somewhere on a sticker that also
mentions the max wattage of the bulb?
As John Ward's video points out, adding an earth to something that's Class
II (double insulated) can make things worse if there's a risk of it
providing a route to earth from some other live source (eg another faulty
appliance).

This rather depends on where it's going to be mounted. If it's a ceiling
light on a 3m high ceiling it's rather less likely to be touched compared
with a wall lamp. In the former case the earth is only protecting from
something breaching the double insulation, something which is fairly
unlikely in any case.

Theo

Hi All,

Yes it does have the class II symbol (one square inside another) on the box so assume it is ok then. Looking at the link above it seems it needs 2 barriers between the live and the user. The light fitting had screw down connectors inside a plastic box so assume it is that which makes it class II. For the sake of adding an earth connector seems like the added safety would be worth manufacturing it in.

Thanks for your help all

Lee.

On 28/03/2021 15:15, wrote:
On Sunday, 28 March 2021 at 14:03:38 UTC+1, Theo wrote:
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
I'd go the mile to earth it, but on Habitat's defence, perhaps
there should be a double insulated logo somewhere on a sticker
that also mentions the max wattage of the bulb?
As John Ward's video points out, adding an earth to something
that's Class II (double insulated) can make things worse if there's
a risk of it providing a route to earth from some other live source
(eg another faulty appliance).

This rather depends on where it's going to be mounted. If it's a
ceiling light on a 3m high ceiling it's rather less likely to be
touched compared with a wall lamp. In the former case the earth is
only protecting from something breaching the double insulation,
something which is fairly unlikely in any case.

Theo

Hi All,

Yes it does have the class II symbol (one square inside another) on
the box so assume it is ok then. Looking at the link above it seems
it needs 2 barriers between the live and the user. The light fitting
had screw down connectors inside a plastic box so assume it is that
which makes it class II. For the sake of adding an earth connector
seems like the added safety would be worth manufacturing it in.

With a class II appliance, adding an earth could be argued actually
reduces safety. Since the chances of it becoming live due to an internal
fault are exceedingly low, all that adding an earth will do is
introduces another extraneous conductive path into the room its
installed in. Hence raising the risk of shock injury from an unrelated
appliance made live by a fault.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 28/03/2021 13:30, wrote:
Hi All,

Went to fit a new light fitting earlier and despite it being made of metal, there is nowhere to connect the earth wire to. The wiring connector only had 2 connectors and no earth tab anywhere on the fitting. Also even the instructions only mentions live and neutral - no mention of earth.

Is this normal/ correct? It is a Habitat light so one would think it is compliant with UK regs?

thanks

Lee.


I have seen the same with no-name LED panel lights where a 20cm diameter
circular metal plate is bolted to the ceiling. This contains a mains to
low voltage power supply (driver), which may be double insulated, BUT
also bolted to the plate is a chock block for mains connection. It would
be easy for a lose strand of wire or an over long stripped back wire to
touch the plate when attaching the mains to the chock block.

I have modified these fittings to attach bolted through earthing tag,
plus wire, to the plate and to replace the two way chock block with a
better quality 3 way version.

The metal plate also has the LEDs attached and acts as a large heat-sink.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Yes, I've seen this sort of thing as well, those glass globe fittings which
have a metal base with a holder on it, and several little screw in studs to
hold the lip of the glass. Looking at them they do have a lot of insulation
from the metal though, so maybe that is why they do not consider it, but I
suppose any kind of connection could be used. I'd never buy a cheap version
of a glass globe fitting, since their plastic cracks eventually and the
glass smashes on the floor., or on anyone standing underneath at the time!
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tricky Dicky" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 28 March 2021 at 13:30:35 UTC+1, wrote:
Hi All,

Went to fit a new light fitting earlier and despite it being made of
metal, there is nowhere to connect the earth wire to. The wiring connector
only had 2 connectors and no earth tab anywhere on the fitting. Also even
the instructions only mentions live and neutral - no mention of earth.

Is this normal/ correct? It is a Habitat light so one would think it is
compliant with UK regs?

thanks

Lee.

Many of the most recent metal light fittings we have bought fixed to the
ceiling joist with a c- shaped metal strap that takes fixing screws through
the fitting. In most cases the earthing has been on that strap, if not
present it is easy enough to crimp an eye on the earth lead and either
pop-rivet or attach with a self-tapping screw.

Richard

Yes but on many double insulated devices, on can get a humming tingling feel
in the finger as you touch it, and many people feel that is not safe, even
though we all know its just a function of the electrostatic field in the
cable.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Theo" wrote in message
...
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
I'd go the mile to earth it, but on Habitat's defence, perhaps there
should be a double insulated logo somewhere on a sticker that also
mentions the max wattage of the bulb?

As John Ward's video points out, adding an earth to something that's Class
II (double insulated) can make things worse if there's a risk of it
providing a route to earth from some other live source (eg another faulty
appliance).

This rather depends on where it's going to be mounted. If it's a ceiling
light on a 3m high ceiling it's rather less likely to be touched compared
with a wall lamp. In the former case the earth is only protecting from
something breaching the double insulation, something which is fairly
unlikely in any case.

Theo

On 29/03/2021 10:10, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

Yes but on many double insulated devices, on can get a humming tingling feel
in the finger as you touch it, and many people feel that is not safe, even
though we all know its just a function of the electrostatic field in the
cable.

Touch sensitive table lamps certainly so, as that is how they work - by
passing a small current through your body. (I had one which would dimly
light a neon screwdriver.)

--
Max Demian

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 05:30:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
[snip]

As an aside, the two screws on the lightswitch here must be earthed
(to the steel back-box) since if you touch them you get electrostatic
effect. Is this normal?

On 29/03/2021 14:43, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 05:30:33 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
[snip]

As an aside, the two screws on the lightswitch here must be earthed
(to the steel back-box) since if you touch them you get electrostatic
effect. Is this normal?


In dry weather it's probably static discharge from you and your clothes.
Time to give up wearing nylon socks and perhaps change the carpet.

--
Adrian C

Scott wrote:
As an aside, the two screws on the lightswitch here must be earthed
(to the steel back-box) since if you touch them you get electrostatic
effect. Is this normal?

Backboxes are supposed to be earthed because a wire could come adrift and
make the backbox live, which would be transmitted through to the screws
which someone could touch. If you have a lot of static charge then you
will likely discharge yourself through the screws.

It's possible to get plastic screw covers:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BG-NEXUS-...0/293012941036
to avoid any metal parts being exposed (on plastic switches)

Theo