A friend of mine was teling me about his flat recently. he had a new
kitchen installed and had some sockets moved. The fitter removed all
the fuses from the fuse box (the old slot in kind with fuse wire) but
apparently the kitchen circuit was still live. Switching the main plug
did work though. In the cupboard there seems to be two fuse boxes
both with only a few fuses in. Also the electrician or fitter moved a
socket but didn't install a new cable so the chasing down the wall is
diagonal. Apparently the council signed off the work.

Also, the lighting ciruit has no earth and he was recommended to
replace the metal light switches with plastic ones. He was told that
he couldn't have a new consumer unit as the feed to the flat wasn't up
to the job.

Can anyone comment on all this as to whether it's normal or legal etc?

He was told that he couldn't have a new consumer unit as the feed to
the flat wasn't up to the job.

A dodgy installation either on the supplier's side or on the house side is
all the more reason to have a modern consumer unit.

Christian.

wrote:

A friend of mine was teling me about his flat recently. he had a new
kitchen installed and had some sockets moved. The fitter removed all
the fuses from the fuse box (the old slot in kind with fuse wire) but
apparently the kitchen circuit was still live. Switching the main plug
did work though. In the cupboard there seems to be two fuse boxes
both with only a few fuses in. Also the electrician or fitter moved a

Did he remove all the fuses from both of the boxes?

socket but didn't install a new cable so the chasing down the wall is
diagonal. Apparently the council signed off the work.

This would only be acceptable if either the depth of the cable was 50mm
or more from *both* sides of the wall, OR, he used earthed metal capping
over the cable to protect it from damage.

Also, the lighting ciruit has no earth and he was recommended to
replace the metal light switches with plastic ones. He was told that

Makes sense.

he couldn't have a new consumer unit as the feed to the flat wasn't up
to the job.

Nonsense

Can anyone comment on all this as to whether it's normal or legal etc?




--
Cheers,

John.

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On 4 May 2006 02:46:43 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

A friend of mine was teling me about his flat recently. he had a new
kitchen installed and had some sockets moved. The fitter removed all
the fuses from the fuse box (the old slot in kind with fuse wire) but
apparently the kitchen circuit was still live. Switching the main plug
did work though. In the cupboard there seems to be two fuse boxes
both with only a few fuses in.

Then presumably the fitter removed the wrong fuses from the wrong
fuse box.

Also the electrician or fitter moved a
socket but didn't install a new cable so the chasing down the wall is
diagonal. Apparently the council signed off the work.

What do the council know about electricity?

Provided it they are suitably protected not a great problem, though
something to avoid if possible.

Also, the lighting ciruit has no earth and he was recommended to
replace the metal light switches with plastic ones.

Sensible, provided that this does not disturb the insulation on the
wires which is probably brittle rubber.

He was told that
he couldn't have a new consumer unit as the feed to the flat wasn't up
to the job.

Incorrect.

It sounds like the whole place should be rewired in the near future.
However the first step would be to have a thorough inspection and
test done to identify any major problems.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article .com,
wrote:
Also, the lighting ciruit has no earth and he was recommended to
replace the metal light switches with plastic ones. He was told that
he couldn't have a new consumer unit as the feed to the flat wasn't up
to the job.

Man's a fool or charlatan. Replacing old fuse box by a modern CU with RCD
protection etc can only improve safety, and the feed has nothing
whatsoever to do with this.

--
*How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote:
A friend of mine was teling me about his flat recently. he had a new
kitchen installed and had some sockets moved. The fitter removed all
the fuses from the fuse box (the old slot in kind with fuse wire) but
apparently the kitchen circuit was still live. Switching the main plug
did work though. In the cupboard there seems to be two fuse boxes
both with only a few fuses in. Also the electrician or fitter moved a
socket but didn't install a new cable so the chasing down the wall is
diagonal. Apparently the council signed off the work.

Also, the lighting ciruit has no earth and he was recommended to
replace the metal light switches with plastic ones. He was told that
he couldn't have a new consumer unit as the feed to the flat wasn't up
to the job.

Can anyone comment on all this as to whether it's normal or legal etc?

More detail would really help, but it sounds like this might be an
ancient rubber installation in need of replacement. If its 1960s pvc
with unearthed lighting, there is a lot less to worry about, though it
would still be short of modern standards.

Either way I doubt theres much mileage in an inspection/test, since it
will fail on a number of points, and if you dont understand the issues
with it now you ilkely wouldnt be able to put the test result issues
into a meaningful perspective. And to rectify things would need a full
rewire anyway.

That leaves motivation from finding out how much is wrong as the only
use of an inspection, but you could get that free by telling us more
about it.


NT

wrote:


More detail would really help, but it sounds like this might be an
ancient rubber installation in need of replacement. If its 1960s pvc
with unearthed lighting, there is a lot less to worry about, though it
would still be short of modern standards.

Either way I doubt theres much mileage in an inspection/test, since it
will fail on a number of points, and if you dont understand the issues
with it now you ilkely wouldnt be able to put the test result issues
into a meaningful perspective. And to rectify things would need a full
rewire anyway.

That leaves motivation from finding out how much is wrong as the only
use of an inspection, but you could get that free by telling us more
about it.


It's my friends flat and he knows nothing about DIY stuff. It looks to
me like a 60's type building - a purpose built block of flats in
Brighton.

He says that's all the fuses were removed when they tried to isolate
the kitchen.
Apparently there was somehting about a master fuse that meant that a
new consumer unit wouldn't be feasible to be installed. Sounds
unlikely to me. Even if the lighting had no earth one can wire up a
modern CU with different types of circuits.

The guy bought the flat a couple of years ago and the electrics were
deemed as "old" but no mention was made to being unsafe etc but I
reckon it must have only been a basic survey. There are extra sockets
in the rooms surface mounted on skirting with the cable tacked on the
skirting around the room so I guess the cowboys have been in before.
The kitchen fitter who did the kitchen moved some sockets but again
they're horrible surface mounted and the diagonal wire that goes to one
of them isn't shielded. Not really a big deal I guess but I wonder
what else is wrong.

David Hansen wrote:
On 4 May 2006 02:46:43 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-


Also the electrician or fitter moved a
socket but didn't install a new cable so the chasing down the wall is
diagonal. Apparently the council signed off the work.

What do the council know about electricity?

As they now have to approve DIY installation work in Part P, presumably
everything ?

What do the council know about electricity?

As they now have to approve DIY installation work in Part P, presumably
everything ?

They certainly know how to ask you illegally to pay for a periodic
inspection, in addition to the inspection fee.

Christian.

On 5 May 2006 03:29:17 -0700 someone who may be
wrote this:-

Apparently there was somehting about a master fuse that meant that a
new consumer unit wouldn't be feasible to be installed. Sounds
unlikely to me.

And me.

Even if the lighting had no earth one can wire up a
modern CU with different types of circuits.

Anyone doing that would need to check that the circuits are suitable
and at that point it sounds like they would have to recommend
replacement. If they were to connect them up anyway they would be in
a difficult position were anything to go wrong.

The guy bought the flat a couple of years ago and the electrics were
deemed as "old" but no mention was made to being unsafe etc

All electricity is unsafe. If it was invented today the safety
maffia would not allow it to be transported around the countryside.
The question is how unsafe it is and it sounds like the flat wiring
is in such a condition that replacement should be considered. The
only way to find out is to get someone who knows what they are doing
to take a look at it. Remote diagnosis by helpful people here can
only go so far.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

wrote:
wrote:


More detail would really help, but it sounds like this might be an
ancient rubber installation in need of replacement. If its 1960s pvc
with unearthed lighting, there is a lot less to worry about, though it
would still be short of modern standards.

Either way I doubt theres much mileage in an inspection/test, since it
will fail on a number of points, and if you dont understand the issues
with it now you ilkely wouldnt be able to put the test result issues
into a meaningful perspective. And to rectify things would need a full
rewire anyway.

That leaves motivation from finding out how much is wrong as the only
use of an inspection, but you could get that free by telling us more
about it.


It's my friends flat and he knows nothing about DIY stuff. It looks to
me like a 60's type building - a purpose built block of flats in
Brighton.

ok. That coudl cover a fair range though, from knackered 50s rubber
with local earth rod and no ELCB to a 1960s ashathene instalaltion with
proper earthing arrangements. The first is pretty dodgy, the 2nd would
be very much better.


He says that's all the fuses were removed when they tried to isolate
the kitchen.

If this is true, there is a fairly serious problem safetywise.


Apparently there was somehting about a master fuse that meant that a
new consumer unit wouldn't be feasible to be installed. Sounds
unlikely to me.

yes, its not correct.

Even if the lighting had no earth one can wire up a
modern CU with different types of circuits.

one can. What legal position it puts a professional spark in is another
matter.


The guy bought the flat a couple of years ago and the electrics were
deemed as "old" but no mention was made to being unsafe etc but I
reckon it must have only been a basic survey.

With these surveys they dont assess the electrics to any useful extent.


There are extra sockets
in the rooms surface mounted on skirting with the cable tacked on the
skirting around the room so I guess the cowboys have been in before.

Sounds like a big improvement on the original wiring.


The kitchen fitter who did the kitchen moved some sockets but again
they're horrible surface mounted and the diagonal wire that goes to one
of them isn't shielded. Not really a big deal I guess but I wonder
what else is wrong.

Wire positioning that doesnt comply is a trivial matter, and pretty
much the norm in housing today. So I wouldnt worry myself over cable on
the skirting board.

Inability to switch off a circuit even after pulling all the fuses
indicates a serious problem. It would take hundreds of amps in that
circuit before the incomer fuse blew, and the wiring would melt or
catch fire in the process. And opf course the end user would have no
way to reset the fuse, and no power until the leccy board visited. And
they may well refuse to reconnect.

What would help next is if you posted some pics, eg of light switches,
the various cables and maybe the CU / fusebox area.


NT