Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is getting
pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And couldn't
summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile. So was only
discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed. So UK Power
Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the middle of the
night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the house
to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses with
separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely dating to
well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced by modern ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?

--
*Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/03/2021 11:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is getting
pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And couldn't
summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile. So was only
discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed. So UK Power
Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the middle of the
night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the house
to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses with
separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely dating to
well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced by modern ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?


Much depends on wether UK Power need to enter the property to reconnect
the supply after restoration.

ISTM that some essential remedial work on the 'earthing' may be required
particularly if PME is connected.

Generally from what you have mentioned, a rewire would seem to be
desirable but i doubt if UK Power could insist on this before reconnection.

In article ,
Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 14/03/2021 11:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is
getting pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And
couldn't summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile.
So was only discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she
does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed. So UK
Power Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the
middle of the night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I
installed the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the
very cold hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a
mains socket for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The
second one went in her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in
the hall, still working normally.

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the
house to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses
with separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely
dating to well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced
by modern ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?


Much depends on wether UK Power need to enter the property to reconnect
the supply after restoration.

They were in the cellar where the fusebox etc are last night - by the
light coming from the grill on the steps to the front door. If it is a
connection fault between the house feed to the street feed, surely they'd
replace the ancient cable to the house anyway?

ISTM that some essential remedial work on the 'earthing' may be required
particularly if PME is connected.

No PME round here.

Generally from what you have mentioned, a rewire would seem to be
desirable but i doubt if UK Power could insist on this before reconnection.

OK.

--
*ATHEISM IS A NON-PROPHET ORGANIZATION.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/03/2021 12:26, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 14/03/2021 11:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is
getting pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And
couldn't summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile.
So was only discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she
does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed. So UK
Power Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the
middle of the night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I
installed the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the
very cold hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a
mains socket for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The
second one went in her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in
the hall, still working normally.

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the
house to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses
with separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely
dating to well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced
by modern ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?


Much depends on wether UK Power need to enter the property to reconnect
the supply after restoration.

They were in the cellar where the fusebox etc are last night - by the
light coming from the grill on the steps to the front door. If it is a
connection fault between the house feed to the street feed, surely they'd
replace the ancient cable to the house anyway?

That depends what the fault is, if it is just a dilapidated service
cable they may replace it but if it is a failed joint at the street
cable it would just be repaired in the street.

ISTM that some essential remedial work on the 'earthing' may be required
particularly if PME is connected.

No PME round here.

Generally from what you have mentioned, a rewire would seem to be
desirable but i doubt if UK Power could insist on this before reconnection.

OK.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 11:28:30 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is getting
pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And couldn't
summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile. So was only
discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed. So UK Power
Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the middle of the
night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the house
to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses with
separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely dating to
well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced by modern ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?

I have spoken to my friend (now retired from another electricity
company). He says it would have to be pretty bad for reconnection to
be refused. They are likely to carry out a basic insulation test and
if this is bad, the system could be deemed unsafe. The most likely
outcome is for the supply to be reconnected with an 'advisory' on work
to be carried out.

To my surprise, he also said that provision of a new earth is
chargeable and earthing in itself is unlikely to prevent reconnection
taking place.

In article ,
Scott wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that may
have fallen off the wall.

--
*Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary, my dear Watson" *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/03/2021 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that may
have fallen off the wall.

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to
use VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down? How long
will a battery support a personal alarm receiver?

--

Jeff

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 13:34:01 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 14/03/2021 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that may
have fallen off the wall.

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to
use VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down? How long
will a battery support a personal alarm receiver?

And will the telecoms provider meet the cost?

On 14/03/2021 14:09, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 13:34:01 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 14/03/2021 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that may
have fallen off the wall.

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to
use VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down? How long
will a battery support a personal alarm receiver?

And will the telecoms provider meet the cost?


AFAIK the requirement on telecoms providers is still that customers gave
the means to make calls to the emergency services (999/112) for 1 hour
after a power cut, but they only have to provide it free of charge for
"at risk" customers. For the rest of us that may mean "get a mobile" or
"buy a battery backup unit".

And the personal alarm systems I've seen all came with base units which
required a mains supply and had built-in battery backup to allow them to
operate in the event of a power outage.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 13:34:01 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 14/03/2021 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I
installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains
socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went
in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that may
have fallen off the wall.

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to
use VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down? How long
will a battery support a personal alarm receiver?

And will the telecoms provider meet the cost?

No need given that most have mobiles now.

On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 13:34:01 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

On 14/03/2021 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that may
have fallen off the wall.

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to
use VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down?

Quite some time. My old NTL cable router requires 12V @ 1.5A so worst
case that's ~20W. A fairly common UPS would be ~600VA so ~15 hours
(down to 50% DOD?) maybe 10 if there was an Ethernet switch involved
or 8 if you included a DECT / VOIP phone?

How long
will a battery support a personal alarm receiver?

Some (most / all?) are already battery-backed anyway (Mum's is).

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 13:34:01 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to
use VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down?

Quite some time. My old NTL cable router requires 12V @ 1.5A so worst
case that's ~20W. A fairly common UPS would be ~600VA so ~15 hours
(down to 50% DOD?) maybe 10 if there was an Ethernet switch involved
or 8 if you included a DECT / VOIP phone?

You're not comparing the right things! A 600VA UPS can provide up to
600VA, that's *power*, it doesn't tell you for how long it will
provide that 600VA. Usually a domestic/computer UPS will only provide
its rated (i.e. maximum) power for 20 or 30 minutes to give you enough
time to shut down gracefully.

--
Chris Green
·

On 14/03/2021 13:34, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 14/03/2021 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Â*Â*Â* Scott wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains
socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one
went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that may
have fallen off the wall.

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to
use VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down? How long
will a battery support a personal alarm receiver?

Are Openreach going to dig up thousands of miles of underground
copper cables that are just buried in soil and replace with fibre ?.

In article , Andrew
wrote:
On 14/03/2021 13:34, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 14/03/2021 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Scott
wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I
installed the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the
very cold hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also
a mains socket for the base station since there wasn't one handy.
The second one went in her bedroom, I was told. Left the original
phone in the hall, still working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that
may have fallen off the wall.

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to
use VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down? How long
will a battery support a personal alarm receiver?

Are Openreach going to dig up thousands of miles of underground copper
cables that are just buried in soil and replace with fibre ?.

A very large amount is in ducts - and the pikeys know it.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"Andrew" wrote in message
...
On 14/03/2021 13:34, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 14/03/2021 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I
installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains
socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went
in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that may
have fallen off the wall.

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to
use VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down? How long
will a battery support a personal alarm receiver?

Are Openreach going to dig up thousands of miles of underground
copper cables that are just buried in soil and replace with fibre ?.

Ours no longer provides a POTS service over the copper pairs
even when the copper pairs are still there to the house with the
VDSL2 service.

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 14/03/2021 12:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains
socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went
in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Remember noticing it had been removed. It was on a phone shelf, that may
have fallen off the wall.

This doesn't bode well for when the copper wires go and we all have to use
VoiP for a fibre connection. How long will a backup battery will be
required to power the phone/router when the power goes down? How long will
a battery support a personal alarm receiver?

The obvious fix for that is a mobile on a charger all the time.

But that doesnt help if they are immobile after a fall.

Certainly must be possible to have devices that have as
sensitive mics as the google home mini which use the
mobile service with the mobile on a charger full time
but its less clear how easy it would be to ensure that
the worst of the geriatrics can remember the voice
command required after major trauma like a bad fall.

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 08:39:11 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



The obvious fix for that is a mobile on a charger all the time.

The obvious fix for you is a good dose of your nembutal, senile pest!

--
Marland addressing senile Rodent's tall stories:
"Do you really think people believe your stories you come up with to boost
your self esteem."
Message-ID:

On 14/03/2021 12:34, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 11:28:30 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is getting
pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And couldn't
summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile. So was only
discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed. So UK Power
Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the middle of the
night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Probably forgotten it was there. Frail elderly living alone should be
encouraged to get a Care on Call installation (monthly fee applies) so
that they have a pendant to use in the event of a fall or whatever.

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the house
to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses with
separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely dating to
well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced by modern ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?

I have spoken to my friend (now retired from another electricity
company). He says it would have to be pretty bad for reconnection to
be refused. They are likely to carry out a basic insulation test and
if this is bad, the system could be deemed unsafe. The most likely
outcome is for the supply to be reconnected with an 'advisory' on work
to be carried out.

What might happen is that they reconnect but with a reduced capacity
main fuse. Someone I knew was in this bind for getting a smart meter
installed. The guy installing it told him that once he made any changes
at all he would have to downgrade the installation to ISTR 40A main fuse
because of the age and decrepitude of the house wiring. Still round pin
plugs about - weird hybrid mix of sockets and not many of them.

To my surprise, he also said that provision of a new earth is
chargeable and earthing in itself is unlikely to prevent reconnection
taking place.

I thought they did an earth bonding return test with some maximum
threshold that was acceptable. Likely that an old metal cold water main
bonding will easily pass though unless very corroded.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article , Martin Brown
wrote:


Probably forgotten it was there. Frail elderly living alone should be
encouraged to get a Care on Call installation (monthly fee applies) so
that they have a pendant to use in the event of a fall or whatever.

My father had one which was very useful when he slipped and fell, then
unable to get to his feet by himself.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 14/03/2021 13:53, charles wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:


Probably forgotten it was there. Frail elderly living alone should be
encouraged to get a Care on Call installation (monthly fee applies) so
that they have a pendant to use in the event of a fall or whatever.

My father had one which was very useful when he slipped and fell, then
unable to get to his feet by himself.



The one MIL had (and absolutely refused to wear!) required mains
electricity.

On 14/03/2021 14:42, GB wrote:
On 14/03/2021 13:53, charles wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:


Probably forgotten it was there. Frail elderly living alone should be
encouraged to get a Care on Call installation (monthly fee applies) so
that they have a pendant to use in the event of a fall or whatever.

My father had one which was very useful when he slipped and fell, then
unable to get to his feet by himself.



The one MIL had (and absolutely refused to wear!) required mains
electricity.


My aunt, OTOH, refused to wear hers inside the house, but religiously
wore it when she went to the shops.

On 14/03/2021 14:42, GB wrote:
On 14/03/2021 13:53, charles wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:


Probably forgotten it was there. Frail elderly living alone should be
encouraged to get a Care on Call installation (monthly fee applies) so
that they have a pendant to use in the event of a fall or whatever.

My father had one which was very useful when he slipped and fell, then
unable to get to his feet by himself.



The one MIL had (and absolutely refused to wear!) required mains
electricity.


Quite right: walking around trailing a mains flex would have been a trip
hazard



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 14/03/2021 14:42, GB wrote:
On 14/03/2021 13:53, charles wrote:
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:


Probably forgotten it was there. Frail elderly living alone should be
encouraged to get a Care on Call installation (monthly fee applies) so
that they have a pendant to use in the event of a fall or whatever.

My father had one which was very useful when he slipped and fell, then
unable to get to his feet by himself.

My mum had one which saved her from falls a couple of times.

The one MIL had (and absolutely refused to wear!) required mains
electricity.

The base station is mains powered but ISTR in the event of power failure
it panics and makes an emergency call by default which the owner can
override when the far end responds.

The pendant took some random size of battery and lasted for ages.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article , Martin Brown
wrote:


Probably forgotten it was there. Frail elderly living alone should be
encouraged to get a Care on Call installation (monthly fee applies) so
that they have a pendant to use in the event of a fall or whatever.

My father had one which was very useful when he slipped and fell, then
unable to get to his feet by himself.

We could never get mine to wear one, it appeared to be too much
proof of how decrepit he had become. When he did have that sort
of fall, it was by pure luck close enough to the mobile he had
chosen to get for himself in case he fell when out walking.

It must be possible to develop something that detects when
someone has been in the one place for too long when its not
in bed and ask if it should call for help and call for help if it
doesn’t get a response saying not to call for help. Tho I spose
that might not be viable with those with poor hearing who
choose to turn their hearing aid off when alone.

On Mon, 15 Mar 2021 08:45:46 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



We could never get mine to wear one

Who's that "we" you are always hallucinating about, sociopath? NO ONE
identifies with a sociopath like you!

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 14/03/2021 12:34, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 14 Mar 2021 11:28:30 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is getting
pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And couldn't
summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile. So was only
discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she does every
day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed. So UK Power
Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the middle of
the
night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains
socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went
in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Probably forgotten it was there.

He claims its not there now. Bit mad with someone so frail
to not have something that will work with no mains.

Frail elderly living alone should be encouraged to get a Care on Call
installation (monthly fee applies) so that they have a pendant to use in
the event of a fall or whatever.

Do those work with no mains, cant seem to quickly google it.

We could never get my dad to wear the pendant. He appeared
to think it proved how decrepit he had become.

Something you can talk to like the best google home minis
without any need for any internet would be better but it
isnt clear how easy it would be to ensure than they could
remember how to tell it that it should call for help.

On 14/03/2021 21:34, Rod Speed wrote:
"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
On 14/03/2021 12:34, Scott wrote:

Why did your neigbour not use the phone in the hall to call for
assistance?

Probably forgotten it was there.

He claims its not there now. Bit mad with someone so frail
to not have something that will work with no mains.

Frail elderly living alone should be encouraged to get a Care on Call
installation (monthly fee applies) so that they have a pendant to use
in the event of a fall or whatever.

Do those work with no mains, cant seem to quickly google it.

They require mains for full functionality but will work for long enough
without it to phone in a message to the control centre to the effect
that local mains power has failed - please send help. The user can
override the callout if they can get to the phone to do so.

The default assumption is that loss of mains power for frail elderly
living alone is an emergency unless they say otherwise.

We could never get my dad to wear the pendant. He appeared
to think it proved how decrepit he had become.

Something you can talk to like the best google home minis
without any need for any internet would be better but it
isnt clear how easy it would be to ensure than they could
remember how to tell it that it should call for help.

It is in essence a handsfree fairly loud speaker phone with a big red
emergency button on.
The pendant is a little bit clunky but acceptable.

Described in more detail here - it comes with call monitoring and first
responders as well. Anything too tricky and they call 999 and stay with
the patient until qualified medical help arrives.

https://www.salford.gov.uk/housing/h...obile-wardens/

It and the system seems to have changed a bit since I last encountered
it. They were more like oversized phones with a big red button before.


--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Well as a vulnerable person I think it will but with the proviso that some
remedial work is done withing a certain time. That used to be how they did
things, but who knows these days. it very much depends on the actual safety
ie if its old rubber and fabric wire like we had its an accident waiting to
happen. We had a rewire in the 7-s, and although its the old colours at
least there are breakers not cruddy ceramic fuses and wire!
Looking at the more recent Storage heater wiring, to be honest it looks
worse than the old stuff we had done. Surface mounted skirting board
switches, plastic conduit and ordinary but thick flexible cable to the
heaters.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is getting
pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And couldn't
summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile. So was only
discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed. So UK Power
Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the middle of the
night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the house
to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses with
separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely dating to
well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced by modern
ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?

--
*Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is getting
pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And couldn't
summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile. So was only
discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed. So UK Power
Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the middle of the
night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

So she should have been able to use that. You clearly
didn’t spell that out properly or she forgot about that.

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the house
to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses with
separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely dating to
well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced by modern
ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?

--
*Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/03/2021 21:11, Rod Speed wrote:
So she should have been able to use that. You clearly
didn’t spell that out properly

Whey do you enjoy apportioning blame? Have you got issues? Were you a
tell tale tit at school?

Bill

williamwright wrote
Rod Speed wrote

So she should have been able to use that. You clearly didn’t spell that
out properly

Whey do you enjoy apportioning blame?

Just another of your silly little fantasys.

Have you got issues?

Nope.

Were you a tell tale tit at school?

Nope.

No point in asking you if you have always been a prat, the answer is
obvious.

On Tue, 16 Mar 2021 04:39:46 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On 14/03/2021 11:28 am, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is getting
pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And couldn't
summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile. So was only
discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed.

The "company fuse"?

So UK Power
Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in the middle of the
night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the house
to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses with
separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely dating to
well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced by modern ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?

There are still lots of houses of a similar description, so why not?

I take it the MK surface-mounted sockets are square pin 13A?

In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 14/03/2021 11:28 am, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is
getting pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And
couldn't summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile.
So was only discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she
does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed.

The "company fuse"?

No. The leccy emergency crew arranged for a generator. They'd have just
replaced the fuse if it had blown.

The fault appeared to be where the house supply cable connected to the
street one - it was fixed very quickly once they'd made the hole needed.
I'd guess replacing the cable into the house would have taken longer and
needed more digging up? Although not very long - perhaps 4 metres or so.
Could be they could just pull a new one through? If it's like mine, it
appears to be fairly ordinary armoured cable which would be pretty strong.


So UK Power Network supplied a generator, which arrived sometime in
the middle of the night and is thrumming away nicely now.

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I
installed the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the
very cold hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a
mains socket for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The
second one went in her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in
the hall, still working normally.

Now the ring main had been installed by her long dead husband. Mainly
surface wired with those 50s surface MK sockets. Only earth in the
house to the water main. Rest of the wiring ancient - porcelain fuses
with separate breakers - the usual mess of added things. Very likely
dating to well before WW2 - although light switches had been replaced
by modern ones.

So wondering if the supply, once replaced, will be re-connected?

There are still lots of houses of a similar description, so why not?

I'd say not many with 80 year old lighting wiring left.

I take it the MK surface-mounted sockets are square pin 13A?

Yes - added in the 60s. I'm told.

--
*I finally got my head together, now my body is falling apart.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/03/2021 15:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 14/03/2021 11:28 am, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is
getting pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And
couldn't summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile.
So was only discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she
does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed.

The "company fuse"?

No. The leccy emergency crew arranged for a generator. They'd have just
replaced the fuse if it had blown.

The fault appeared to be where the house supply cable connected to the
street one - it was fixed very quickly once they'd made the hole needed.
I'd guess replacing the cable into the house would have taken longer and
needed more digging up? Although not very long - perhaps 4 metres or so.
Could be they could just pull a new one through? If it's like mine, it
appears to be fairly ordinary armoured cable which would be pretty strong.

They use armoured pvc concentric cable for house services these days,
it's doubtful if it could have been 'pulled through'with the old one though.

In article , Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:
On 16/03/2021 15:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , JNugent
wrote:
On 14/03/2021 11:28 am, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is
getting pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning.
And couldn't summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no
mobile. So was only discovered when her daughter visited that
evening, as she does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed.

The "company fuse"?

No. The leccy emergency crew arranged for a generator. They'd have just
replaced the fuse if it had blown.

The fault appeared to be where the house supply cable connected to the
street one - it was fixed very quickly once they'd made the hole
needed. I'd guess replacing the cable into the house would have taken
longer and needed more digging up? Although not very long - perhaps 4
metres or so. Could be they could just pull a new one through? If it's
like mine, it appears to be fairly ordinary armoured cable which would
be pretty strong.

They use armoured pvc concentric cable for house services these days,
it's doubtful if it could have been 'pulled through'with the old one
though.

Very intersting, When, as a student (c1959), I was with the SESEB, drawings
showed really old installations used concentric feeders.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 16/03/2021 17:53, charles wrote:
In article , Jack Harry Teesdale
wrote:
On 16/03/2021 15:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , JNugent
wrote:
On 14/03/2021 11:28 am, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is
getting pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning.
And couldn't summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no
mobile. So was only discovered when her daughter visited that
evening, as she does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed.

The "company fuse"?

No. The leccy emergency crew arranged for a generator. They'd have just
replaced the fuse if it had blown.

The fault appeared to be where the house supply cable connected to the
street one - it was fixed very quickly once they'd made the hole
needed. I'd guess replacing the cable into the house would have taken
longer and needed more digging up? Although not very long - perhaps 4
metres or so. Could be they could just pull a new one through? If it's
like mine, it appears to be fairly ordinary armoured cable which would
be pretty strong.

They use armoured pvc concentric cable for house services these days,
it's doubtful if it could have been 'pulled through'with the old one
though.

Very intersting, When, as a student (c1959), I was with the SESEB, drawings
showed really old installations used concentric feeders.

What goes around comes around! The centre core is now solid with the
wire armouring surrounding.

In article ,
Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
On 16/03/2021 15:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
JNugent wrote:
On 14/03/2021 11:28 am, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is
getting pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And
couldn't summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile.
So was only discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she
does every day.

Turned out to be the supply into the house which had failed.

The "company fuse"?

No. The leccy emergency crew arranged for a generator. They'd have just
replaced the fuse if it had blown.

The fault appeared to be where the house supply cable connected to the
street one - it was fixed very quickly once they'd made the hole
needed. I'd guess replacing the cable into the house would have taken
longer and needed more digging up? Although not very long - perhaps 4
metres or so. Could be they could just pull a new one through? If it's
like mine, it appears to be fairly ordinary armoured cable which would
be pretty strong.

They use armoured pvc concentric cable for house services these days,
it's doubtful if it could have been 'pulled through'with the old one
though.

Ah - OK. I'll not try it then. ;-)

--
*Whatever kind of look you were going for, you missed.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 14/03/2021 11:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Next door neighbour - a widow of 89 who lives on her own and is getting
pretty frail, had a total power failure yesterday morning. And couldn't
summon help as both her phones are cordless, and no mobile. So was only
discovered when her daughter visited that evening, as she does every day.


As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Nothing to do with Power.
We have a corded phone as an emergency back-up it is kept in a cupboard
for when the electricity goes off.

No memory needed nothing beyond basic telephony phones can be had from
about £5, hardly expensive.
Doesn't take the brains of an archbishop to unplug the 'proper' phone
and plug in the emergency phone.

Mind you if the socket is (as usual) mounted near the floor she might
have a hard time getting down to it. If the hall socket is still there
could the Emergency phone not be left plugged into that?

Just had a thought, at her age are her eyes/fine motor skills a bit
iffy? Then maybe this :-
https://tinyurl.com/2bbebekn m (Amazon linky)
will do the job

On 14/03/2021 11:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Snipped

As it happens I know a bit about her wiring. Some years ago I installed
the cordless phones for her. As the cabled one was in the very cold
hallway. Put an extension BT socket in the lounge and also a mains socket
for the base station since there wasn't one handy. The second one went in
her bedroom, I was told. Left the original phone in the hall, still
working normally.

Snipped

I have a wired BT handset adjacent to my broadband router and cordless
phone base station. An Openreach engineer asked me why I had two
handsets next to each other. I explained that one would still work in a
power cut, he seemed surprised at the answer.
--
Biggles